killing is not the way i want to go

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Ranger9879

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my reason for transferring from West Point is because after the death of my best friend in Iraq last October, i started to reassess what i wanted in life and found that it would be better not holding an M-16 assault rifle killing another human being, guilty or not. i didn't want that in my future. Rather, i wanted to be on the opposite side of the spectrum. I also will tie in my low GPA at the U.S Military Academy, a result from my difference in goals and my desire to incorporate a military lifestyle into academics. Would this be a good essay topic for med school?
 
👍

If you do it up right, they (the adcoms) will eat it up. Don't get too melodramatic though.
 
That may be a good strategy for your essay, I guess, but you have to anticipate someone in your interview saying something like, "Army doctors aren't exactly on the front lines firing M-16s, right?"
 
My sentiments exactly
Your military background gives you a more interesting central story than most, so if you write it thoughtfully, your essay could be very powerful.
But don't go sounding like an indie drama starring a broody Sean Penn in the role of you is going to be adapted from your life story in the near future
...man, that guy is good 😍

You want to be careful about establishing that these motives are backed up by clinical experience, etc., that you didn't just wake up with an ideal about "saving lives", without really understanding what it's like to be a doctor day-to-day (rather than what you see on ER)

And sorry about your best friend 🙁
 
thanks for the feedback guys. To let you guys know, my decision to become a doctor came to be after i decided to transfer. I KNEW that i didn't want to be affiliated with the army but i didn't know yet what i wanted to do. The explanation of in my personal statement will concentrate on explaining my low freshman grades and my desire to do something different with my life. I won't be too melodramatic though. i see your point. thanks. keep the feedback coming!
 
Ranger9879 said:
my reason for transferring from West Point is because after the death of my best friend in Iraq last October, i started to reassess what i wanted in life and found that it would be better not holding an M-16 assault rifle killing another human being, guilty or not. i didn't want that in my future. Rather, i wanted to be on the opposite side of the spectrum. I also will tie in my low GPA at the U.S Military Academy, a result from my difference in goals and my desire to incorporate a military lifestyle into academics. Would this be a good essay topic for med school?

Well.... it's my understanding that an Army Lt wouldn't concentrate on using an M-16 anyway, because he'd be busy using the much more powerful weapons system "the platoon".

You can write about it. Just be sure you know the difference between getting grades due to that not being where you really wanted to be and some other reason.
 
Ranger9879 said:
my reason for transferring from West Point is because after the death of my best friend in Iraq last October, i started to reassess what i wanted in life and found that it would be better not holding an M-16 assault rifle killing another human being, guilty or not. i didn't want that in my future. Rather, i wanted to be on the opposite side of the spectrum. I also will tie in my low GPA at the U.S Military Academy, a result from my difference in goals and my desire to incorporate a military lifestyle into academics. Would this be a good essay topic for med school?


i commend your decision.
 
Were you able to make-up some of the courses that caused the 2.7, and do you have any LOR's from professors at West Point?
 
Also keep in mind that a lot of docs are former military. Most who went that route did so for the scholarship, but some are gung-ho military careerists (I had one for my first interview).
 
yeah, i retook the courses at the school i transferred to and got A's in them. Also, i have very strong letters from a Colonel, Captains, and LTC from West Point. they are my profs over there. so.. yeah. great LOR's. But for me, military wasn't the way i wanted to go. i just wanted more experience with volunteering at hospitals and researching. At West Point, there is no time for volunteering let alone volunteering at a hospital. There is also very very little time for research. Most of my time was spent on "plebe" duties, military discipline, and academics. But the military aspect overshadowed much of the time needed for academics.
 
Ranger9879 said:
yeah, i retook the courses at the school i transferred to and got A's in them. Also, i have very strong letters from a Colonel, Captains, and LTC from West Point. they are my profs over there. so.. yeah. great LOR's. But for me, military wasn't the way i wanted to go. i just wanted more experience with volunteering at hospitals and researching. At West Point, there is no time for volunteering let alone volunteering at a hospital. There is also very very little time for research. Most of my time was spent on "plebe" duties, military discipline, and academics. But the military aspect overshadowed much of the time needed for academics.

Apparently, they didn't teach you grammar.
As well, they failed to impart any critical thinking skills on you conerning your reasons for not wanting to be in the military.
 
USCTex said:
Apparently, they didn't teach you grammar.
As well, they failed to impart any critical thinking skills on you conerning your reasons for not wanting to be in the military.
and obviously your mom didn't teach you compassion, so I guess you guys are even.
 
BTW not ALL military member engage in "killing" you make it sound like they are a bunch of gun toting "anything" shooting individuals. Military physicians do not engage themselves in combat although they do know how to defend themselves and their patients. Just thought this was important and needed to clarifiy in case folks are interested...
 
The reason i transferred was because the military path was simply not for me. I wanted to become a physician through another route period. Even though Army doctors do not engage in battle, they still are required to go through basic training, and at West Point, ever cadet must do certain types of training throughout their four years there. On another note, my handle is Ranger because i simply am too lazy to change it.
 
efex101 said:
BTW not ALL military member engage in "killing" you make it sound like they are a bunch of gun toting "anything" shooting individuals. Military physicians do not engage themselves in combat although they do know how to defend themselves and their patients. Just thought this was important and needed to clarifiy in case folks are interested...

Perhaps not. But the OP was not making that characterization. The Duty to obey and carry out the foreign policy of this country's military commanders without question and to have the impetus to ask questions beat the heck out of you by the brainwashing tactics of military and especially military academy culture, is something that the OP decided he/she should not be invloved in for whatever reason. To say that some military personel do not engage in killing may be absolutely true and still not be sufficient in advising someone whether the military life is right for them or not. I almost signed up when I was 17 under my grandfather's influence whom I respected enormously. I am lucky that I did not because as I have grown to be a man I know that I would not fit into military life. If the young and disaproprotionately poorer kids in schools today had more counterpoint experience from people like the OP and less BS spilled on them by military recruiters less people would be in the military wishing they hadn't done so. No disrespect intended as I think I remember you saying you were a soldier, just trying to keep it real.--Ben
 
Ranger9879 said:
The reason i transferred was because the military path was simply not for me. I wanted to become a physician through another route period. Even though Army doctors do not engage in battle, they still are required to go through basic training, and at West Point, ever cadet must do certain types of training throughout their four years there. On another note, my handle is Ranger because i simply am too lazy to change it.

uh, why did you go to west point if you dont want to be in the military? seems like it would be hard to not know what you are getting into.
out of curiousity, do you have to pay the government back for the years of education that you got at west point?
 
I do agree that going into the military without thinking through all the "buts and ifs" is extremely dangerous ..you can be killed and you may need to kill in the process. Informed decisions CAN be made though...and that is how it should be, yes recruiters are notorious for embellishing how life can be...but that is why it is in the interest of the recruit to find out everything no matter how young you are. There is NO excuse for the ..."well I had NO clue we could go to combat mentality" that many recruits have..WTF? the military IS to prepare for combat.
 
llort said:
uh, why did you go to west point if you dont want to be in the military? seems like it would be hard to not know what you are getting into.
out of curiousity, do you have to pay the government back for the years of education that you got at west point?
This was my first thought. you should certainly cover it in your essay.
 
everyone that goes into the Army, even West Point, is not 100% sure that it is for them. Getting out of the Army, i find myself just amazed that i had the perseverance to go through the tedious application process that West Point requires. But i had to weigh the evidence. Stay in the Army for 5 required years, not knowing if it was for me, or do something else that i wanted to get done. I'm going to use the idea that making such a heavy decision to decide the path in my life really made me more mature in my ps. leaving West Point wasn't easy. In fact, i have to work harder now because of the different lifestyle that i need to get accustomed to but i'm willing to choose the harder but "more fit for me" path to get where i need to be.
 
From a Veteran's perspective, here's some advise. (My reasons for leaving were similar to your own.):

You need to show that you did your best to satisfy both your conscience and your duty. I think a letter from your commanding officer or possibly an Army Chaplain would take care of this. It needs to say that you are a committed citizen who has a strong desire to serve your community, but that assignment as a line officer just wasn't right for you. Write a big letter about how you feel, what you went through, and where you're going to the above people & see who is receptive.
 
Too bad for the grunts you didn't stay and become an officer; the army needs officers that appreciate life more than their own careers. Good decision to go into medicine, I think it’s the best profession on earth. Welcome.
 
Ranger9879 said:
my reason for transferring from West Point is because after the death of my best friend in Iraq last October, i started to reassess what i wanted in life and found that it would be better not holding an M-16 assault rifle killing another human being, guilty or not. i didn't want that in my future. Rather, i wanted to be on the opposite side of the spectrum. I also will tie in my low GPA at the U.S Military Academy, a result from my difference in goals and my desire to incorporate a military lifestyle into academics. Would this be a good essay topic for med school?

Sell it well man 👍

I lost my best friend this past November in Iraq as well...not a pleasant experience.
 
First of all, I am sorry to hear about your friend. Even though I don't agree with this war, I still respect all who will serve honorably. On the other hand, there is you. Thousands of potential cadet cadidates, work their asses off every year to get into West Point. You are quitting for reasons that have nothing to do with you directly. Try to explain to an adcom, why you quit in the middle of West Point. Do you honestly think that they will not assume you will do the same in med school? What excuse will you find then? Again, I feel for your loss, but life goes on, and you must consider your future. Others will respect you for being mature and responsible.
 
FutureOrthoDoc said:
First of all, I am sorry to hear about your friend. Even though I don't agree with this war, I still respect all who will serve honorably. On the other hand, there is you. Thousands of potential cadet cadidates, work their asses off every year to get into West Point. You are quitting for reasons that have nothing to do with you directly.


👎

What's your problem? You have no idea what he's had to deal with in his life that may have affected his decision. Wise up, and learn some empathy. Quickly.
 
efex101 said:
if you do not believe in the military life why is your handle ranger? just curious..
I had this exact question as well. As a veteran, I would be a bit put off by an app suggesting that service in the military was only for killers or some such nonsense.

I would also be put off by somebody that struggled to get into a VERY competitive program (West Point) and then gave up on it half way through. Be very careful about how you structure your essay so that you don't offend any vets reading it, and be sure to address the concern that you are not a quitter that can't hack a tough program.

I still wanna know why you keep the screen name "Ranger."
 
If I were on an admission committee reviewing the OP's application, cowardice is the first thing that I would think of.

iDq1i, 2LT

BTW, this is not an accusation - it's simply an observation
 
idq1i said:
If I were on an admission committee reviewing the OP's application, cowardice is the first thing that I would think of.

iDq1i, 2LT

BTW, this is not an accusation - it's simply an observation


How is that? He made a decision to leave where he was unhappy. I can't believe the accusations that some people have in this thread. Not you IDQ (as a 2lt, you have your own viewpoints backed by experience), but the fact that a majority of the people in this thread never even considered going into military service, but are quick to jump on a person with a change of heart.

Should he have stayed where he didn't feel comfortable, happy, or the ability to succeed? We all make mistakes. Whenever someone asks what they should major in on SDN, the first 17 answers are invariably "Do whatever you like best. You'll excel in what you enjoy doing." Now someone is admitting that they are unhappy with their initial academic and career choice, and they are being branded a coward. According to the logic in this thread, the OP should have stayed there until his military tour was over, however unhappy his life may have been. You wouldn't say the same thing to someone who felt their undergraduate institution was stifling them- as a matter of fact you'd reccommend a transfer.

The hypocrisy is thick.
 
Belfagor said:
How is that? He made a decision to leave where he was unhappy.

There's alot more to it than just quiting because you have stress. They also let you out of West Point gently if those are your reasons. The military doesn't want people who don't want to be there (1. that doesn't mean they discharge you with honors. 2. Desertion is a whole other ballgame, but upstate NY is hardly combat, so I wouldnt say anybody was a coward in his case.)

Our friend "ranger" has some other problems. And his reasons for leaving the academy could not possibly be as simple as he says. That's fine though. They're personal and neither we nor the ADCOM need to know them. Whatever his reasons, they are his reasons. He'll need a good story for the ADCOM though.

If he wants to be a physician, he'll need to make sure he doesn't quit again (medical school is stressfull and sadly, it's not unusual to lose friends in medical school.)

I suppose folks need to leave him alone though, because he's trying to recover from a major setback. We all have those, thats what makes us stronger.


(As a former soldier, I'm a little disturbed at a cadet trumpeting themselves as a Ranger, but thats another story. Maybe changing the SN to something like "REMF" would be more appropriate.)
 
Supadupafly said:
(As a former soldier, I'm a little disturbed at a cadet trumpeting themselves as a Ranger, but thats another story. Maybe changing the SN to something like "REMF" would be more appropriate.)

I would bet this is at least part of what bothers people. He's full of contradictions.

As an Academy cadet, he should know better than to say or even imply that all military people are just killers.

As someone who decided to step away from that life, he shouldn't label himself with the name of an elite unit.

Fix your contradictions in your head and you'll have less trouble with everyone including adcoms when it's time.
 
Supadupafly said:
There's alot more to it than just quiting because you have stress. They also let you out of West Point gently if those are your reasons. The military doesn't want people who don't want to be there (1. that doesn't mean they discharge you with honors. 2. Desertion is a whole other ballgame, but upstate NY is hardly combat, so I wouldnt say anybody was a coward in his case.)

Our friend "ranger" has some other problems. And his reasons for leaving the academy could not possibly be as simple as he says. That's fine though. They're personal and neither we nor the ADCOM need to know them. Whatever his reasons, they are his reasons. He'll need a good story for the ADCOM though.

If he wants to be a physician, he'll need to make sure he doesn't quit again (medical school is stressfull and sadly, it's not unusual to lose friends in medical school.)

I suppose folks need to leave him alone though, because he's trying to recover from a major setback. We all have those, thats what makes us stronger.


(As a former soldier, I'm a little disturbed at a cadet trumpeting themselves as a Ranger, but thats another story. Maybe changing the SN to something like "REMF" would be more appropriate.)


I agree. I think that you have to really explain why you are leaving the military. Committees don't like people who don't finish graduate programs, military service is a much bigger commitment. Since med school and residency is another long grueling process, they want to make sure you're not going to quit again. Can you show a commitment in other areas?

How long ago did you leave West Point? If it was recent, I don't think it's a good idea to apply, unless you present a strong application and a commitment to medicine. You may have to show your commitment by bringing up your grades and gaining some good clinical experience.

Although your situation is unfortunate, medical schools hear about tragedies and sad stories all the time. They're not likely to be so moved that they'd overlook your low GPA because of it.
 
I wouldn't even call it "quitting". I transferred schools and don't look at it as a big deal. People change majors, change schools, and nobody thinks anything of it. If you use it as an excuse, then it will be a focus. If you don't, then it probably won't.

Cadets in the first two years at the USAF Academy aren't obligated yet. If it's the same at West Point, it's because they want you to have a chance to make an informed decision.
 
MoosePilot said:
I would bet this is at least part of what bothers people. He's full of contradictions.

As an Academy cadet, he should know better than to say or even imply that all military people are just killers.

As someone who decided to step away from that life, he shouldn't label himself with the name of an elite unit.

Fix your contradictions in your head and you'll have less trouble with everyone including adcoms when it's time.
Very well put Moose. Having been stationed at HAAF across from the Ranger barracks, I can't imagine how they would refer to a WP drop out that referred to himself as a Ranger, but I am certain it would not be kind.
 
Flopotomist said:
Very well put Moose. Having been stationed at HAAF across from the Ranger barracks, I can't imagine how they would refer to a WP drop out that referred to himself as a Ranger, but I am certain it would not be kind.

Having been only a medic in the cav recon myself, I wouldn't even dare call myself a Ranger (or even most of the 5 jump chump Infantry LTs they pump through Ranger school to lead leg units). I think it's that new black beret for the WHOLE Army thing. It goes to their REMF heads.

Interestingly though, I did once meet meet an ROTC cadet with a 3rd Ranger Bat. combat patch. Turns out he had been in that hell in Somalia before starting undergrad. High speed guy; flight nurse in the 82nd now.
 
I find it somewhat ironic that you will be concerned with explaining away leaving the military, while many of us, myself included, are basing much of our applications on the experiences we gained in it.

I think it took huevos to do what you did, and I can respect that. However, it still reeks (?) of the whole "I just signed up for the college money" attitude.

Your medical education will consist of more than the five years you would have incurred once you were commissioned; ethical objections aside, can you commit to that? And I just throw that out there because that is something an adcom will wonder. How much research had you done into what the role of an officer is, prior to taking up a slot at USMA? How much have you done with regard to the medical profession? Food for thought...

motivation
commitment
sincerity
honesty
maturity

On SDN's Essay Workshop webpage, these traits are listed, in order, along with others, according to how much importance the adcom assigns them. Be prepared, both in prose and your interview, to explain how not knowing what you were getting into ahead of time despite the fact that our country was likely at war when your decision was made and how stopping/transferring/quitting before your original goal was reached demonstrates any of the above traits. Deep introspection is probably in order...

Totally unrelated to your medical career: If you truly are tabbed, disregard. If not, representing yourself in any capacity, albeit simply some anonymous web forum, as someone who has completed Ranger School not only does a great disservice to the men who have earned that title and gone on to pay for the liberty of this country with their blood, it speaks volumes about your character. It is as simple as that.

That said, good luck with your new path.
 
Supadupafly said:
Having been only a medic in the cav recon myself, I wouldn't even dare call myself a Ranger (or even most of the 5 jump chump Infantry LTs they pump through Ranger school to lead leg units). I think it's that new black beret for the WHOLE Army thing. It goes to their REMF heads.

Interestingly though, I did once meet meet an ROTC cadet with a 3rd Ranger Bat. combat patch. Turns out he had been in that hell in Somalia before starting undergrad. High speed guy; flight nurse in the 82nd now.
Which cav unit Supa? I was attached to 2/7 cav out of Ft. Stewart for a little while in 1998.
 
I normally don't bring my opinion to bear on issues like the one presented above, but this time, I feel that I need to contribute to the discussion taking place. There a couple points that are at the center of this discussion that directly reflect on the way most people perceive the military and those who serve in its various components. For that reason, allow me to present a few ideas.

First of all, let me give you my background so you can better understand where it is I'm coming from. I am an Infantry Captain currently on active duty in the Army. I have served in various locations including Korea and most recently Iraq, where I was awarded a Bronze Star for Valor. I led a Scout/Sniper platoon in nearly 12 months of combat in places like Sadr City, Taji, and Baghdad. Seven of my soldiers were awarded Purple Hearts and six were awarded various medals for acts of bravery. I have seen more violence and death than anyone at my age (26) should have witnessed. I have my own opinions about this war, but I, like so many thousands of other soldiers, did volunteer to go to Iraq. Most nights, I have trouble sleeping as I relive the scenes over and over in my head. I am very much opposed to the use of force in any situation, especially war. I do not take pride in having "pulled the trigger," but I do hold my head high knowing that I brought all of my soldiers home alive. I won't tell you that it was all because of me, in fact, I'll be the first to tell you that my soldiers did more than I could ever ask, but I like to think that all my work was an effort to save my soldiers' lives rather than taking the lives of the enemy.

With that said, let me address a few points. I will try to be as constructive as possible. First, I don't understand how the death of a friend in Iraq has any effect upon the decision not to be a "trigger puller." It doesn't make any sense. If you're friend had written you and told you about the horrors of close quarters battle and the revolting mental reaction to killing another human being, then I might understand your decision. However, the death of a friend would be the more logical cause of you worrying more about your own death. Does that make sense? The death of a friend is a serious event, I lost 11 in Iraq, but it makes you question your own safety, your own mortality, not your views about fighting. I think you should tread carefully in your statements. The logic doesn't make sense.

Second, I think you will have to address the fact that the good majority of the army does not directly engage the enemy. I believe the last ratio I heard was that it takes nearly 15 support soldiers for every combatant. The army has doctors, lawyers, even Chaplains. In fact, the Geneva Convention directly prohibits medics from taking part in offensive operations. You could easily have served as a medical service corps officer, leading a platoon of medics. You'd never leave the base. By saying that you didn't want to be a killer so you abandoned the Army as a whole is basically an accusation that everyone in the army is a killer. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is no greater pacifist than the soldier that is ultimately on the receiving end of enemy fire. Those who have experienced the battle are those that are most admament about preventing it in the future. I know that my one wish is that my children will never see the things I have seen. Plus, it is the men and women in Congress that are the ones that decide how the military is used. It is the civilian population, the electorate that is sending us off to war. The military is simply the active extension of foreign policy created by the government. We don't go about picking out countries to attack. If you want to call someone killers or whatever, look first in the mirror, then at your elected officials. If you don't vote, you have no excuse at all.

Third, I don't argue that leaving WP was the wrong decision for you. I don't know you. I was accepted to WP, but I decided not to attend, so trust me, I do understand the environment there. However, I think that leaving WP creates a huge question mark regarding your ability to commit. As others have mentioned, the rigorous selection process certainly gave you the time and opportunity so that you should have known what you were getting into. Did you really think it would be fun? So you weren't happy there? Is personal happiness what this is all about? The fact of the matter is that you turned your back on a commitment. Do you think the soldiers in Iraq are happy? Do you think medical residents are happy? Concepts like integrity and honor entail the ability to stick through difficult times. Granted our society has lost sight of the idea of giving of oneself for the greater good, but it doesn't make everything ok. Look, you said you left for moral reasons, but as I stated above, that doesn't really make sense given the situation you described. I think this is the greatest issue you will have to address. All you can do is be honest and be absolutely certain of your new direction in life. Everyone makes mistakes, but at the same time, we have to be prepared to accept the consequences of our decisions. This situation is really about you, not your friend. Address it as such. Everything has a background and context, but simply using the death of your friend does not fully explain everything that must have gone through your mind leading up to your decision to leave.

I think that you situation is unique, however, I do not think that it is something that you use to your advantage. Rather, I think this is something that you have to explain because it does put you on the defensive upon the initial look. You must tread carefully between explaining your actions and using this as a means to advance yourself. If you try and play this as a "pity me" situation, I think people will see right through you. Additionally, by trying to gain advantage of the situation, you are essentially, insulting those that have served. I think this was brought up before. I'm not saying put yourself down, you just need to moderate how you present this.

Finally, you do need to change the name. Even if you hadn't left WP, you just don't claim to be something you're not. Even many of those who have been to Ranger School do not consider themselves Rangers. I never served in one of the battalions and would never claim to have done so. It goes back to the integrity issue. The experience I shared with my soldiers in Iraq is unlike any other I will ever find again. There is an unspoken bond, a closeness of having survived many days we certainly should not have lived through. My closest friends and family can and will never understand. When you use a name like that, you intrude upon that. Granted, it may seem slight, but for many of us, it's one of the few wonderful things to come out of such a horrible situation. It's what we hold on to and in many ways, it's all we've got. I don't think you want to dishonor that.

Thanks to all the other vets that have come out here. It's good to see everyone standing side by side.

Good Luck.
 
roboyce said:
Finally, you do need to change the name. Even if you hadn't left WP, you just don't claim to be something you're not. Even many of those who have been to Ranger School, such as myself, do not consider ourselves Rangers. I never served in one of the battalions and would never claim to have done so. It goes back to the integrity issue. The experience I shared with my soldiers in Iraq is unlike any other I will ever find again. There is an unspoken bond, a closeness of having survived many days we certainly should not have lived through. My closest friends and family can and will never understand. When you use a name like that, you intrude upon that. Granted, it may seem slight, but for many of us, it's one of the few wonderful things to come out of such a horrible situation. It's what we hold on to and in many ways, it's all we've got. I don't think you want to dishonor that.

Thanks to all the other vets that have come out here. It's good to see everyone standing side by side.

Good Luck.

Interesting post. On another note, could you clarify what is meant by the term Ranger? I hear this term tossed around in the media all the time, but I have no idea what being a Ranger actually entails and why is it such a faux pas for the OP to use this to identify himself.
 
TheMightyAngus said:
Interesting post. On another note, could you clarify what is meant by the term Ranger? I hear this term tossed around in the media all the time, but I have no idea what being a Ranger actually entails and why is it such a faux pas for the OP to use this to identify himself.
The term Ranger denotes a soldier specially trained to be part of a very elite unit. It is possible to attend the training (as many officers do) and not go on to serve in a Ranger unit. These people generally do not refer to themselves as "rangers."

Rangers are so elite that they have different headgear that they wear so that they are distinguishable from the regular Army.

I suppose to put this in civilian medical terms, it would be similar to a resident calling himself a Neurosurgeon just because s/he rotated once on neuro. Clearly, this person has not earned the right to call himself a neurosurgeon any more than the OP can call himself a Ranger. It is pretty offensive to those that serve(d) as Rangers, and his entire post sorta gets under the skin to those of us that served in the regular army.
 
roboyce said:
I normally don't bring my opinion to bear on issues like the one presented above, but this time, I feel that I need to contribute the discussion taking place. There a couple points that are at the center of this discussion that directly reflect on the way most people perceive the military those who serve in its various components. For that reason, allow me to present a few ideas.

First of all, let me give you my background so you can better understand where it is I'm coming from. I am an Infantry Captain currently on active duty in the Army. I have served in various locations including Korea and most recently Iraq, where I was awarded a Bronze Star for Valor. I led a Scout/Sniper platoon in nearly 12 months of combat in places like Sadr City, Taji, and Baghdad. Seven of my soldiers were awarded Purple Hearts and six were awarded various medals for acts of bravery. I have seen more violence and death than anyone at my age (26) should have witnessed. I have my own opinions about this war, but I like so many thousands of other soldiers, did volunteer to go to Iraq. Most nights, I have trouble sleeping as I relive the scenes over and over in my head. I am very much opposed to the use of force in any situation, especially war. I do not take pride in having "pulled the trigger," but I do hold my head high knowing that I brought all of my soldiers home alive. I won't tell you that it was all because of me, in fact, I'll be the first to tell you that my soldiers did more than I could ever ask, but I like to think that all my work was an effort to save my soldiers' lives rather than taking the lives of the enemy.

With that said, let me address a few points. I will try to be as constructive as possible. First, I don't understand how the death of a friend in Iraq has any effect upon the decision not to be a "trigger puller." It doesn't make any sense. If you're friend had written you and told you about the horrors close quarters battle and the revuting mental reaction to killing another human being, then I might understand your decision. However, the death of a friend would be the more logical cause of you worrying more about your own death. Does that make sense? The death of a friend is a serious event, I lost 11 in Iraq, but it makes you question your own safety, your own mortality, not your views about fighting. I think you should tread carefully in your statements. The logic doesn't make sense.

Second, I think you will have to address the fact that the good majority of the army does not directly engage the enemy. I believe the last ratio I heard was that it takes nearly 15 support soldiers for every combatant. The army has doctors, lawyers, even Chaplains. In fact, the Geneva Convention directly prohibits medics from taking part in offensive operations. You could easily have served as a medical service corps officer, leading a platoon of medics. You'd never leave the base. By saying that you didn't want to be a killer so you abandoned the Army as a whole is basically an accusation that everyone in the army is a killer. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is no greater pacifist than the soldier that is ultimately on the receiving end of enemy fire. Those who have experienced the battle are those that are most admament about preventing it in the future. I know that my one wish is that my children will never see the things I have seen. Plus, it is the men and women in Congress that are the ones that decide how the military is used. It is the civilian population, the electorate that is sending us off to war. The military is simply the active extension of foreign policy created by the government. We don't go about picking out countries to attack. If you want to call someone killers or whatever, look first in the mirror, then at your elected officials. If you don't vote, you have no excuse at all.

Third, I don't argue that leaving WP was the wrong decision for you. I don't know you. I was accepted to WP, but I decided not to attend, so trust me, I do understand the environment there. However, I think that leaving WP creates a huge question mark regarding your ability to commit. As others have mentioned, the rigorous selection process certainly gave you the time and opportunity so that you should have known what you were getting into. Did you really think it would be fun? So you weren't happy there? Is personal happiness what this is all about? The fact of the matter is that you turned your back on a committment. Do you think the soldiers in Iraq are happy? Do you think medical residents are happy? Concepts like integrity and honor entail the ability to stick through difficult times. Granted our society has lost sight of the idea of giving of oneself for the greater good, but it doesn't make everything ok. Look, you said you left for moral reasons, but as I stated above, that doesn't really make sense given the situation you described. I think this is the greatest issue you will have to address. All you can do is be honest and be absolutely certain of your new direction in life. Everyone makes mistakes, but at the same time, we have to be prepared to accept the consequences of our decisions. This situation is really about you, not your friend. Address it as such. Everything has a background and context, but simply using the death of your friend does not fully explain everything that must have gone through your mind leading up to your decision to leave.

I think that you situation is unique, however, I do not think that it is something that you use to your advantage. Rather, I think this is something that you have to explain because it does put you on the defensive upon the initial look. You must tread carefully between explaining your actions and using this as a means to advance yourself. If you try and play this as a "pity me" situation, I think people will see right through you. Additionally, by trying to gain advantage of the situation, you are essentially, insulting those that have served. I think this was brought up before. I'm not saying put yourself down, you just need to moderate how you present this.

Finally, you do need to change the name. Even if you hadn't left WP, you just don't claim to be something you're not. Even many of those who have been to Ranger School, such as myself, do not consider ourselves Rangers. I never served in one of the battalions and would never claim to have done so. It goes back to the integrity issue. The experience I shared with my soldiers in Iraq is unlike any other I will ever find again. There is an unspoken bond, a closeness of having survived many days we certainly should not have lived through. My closest friends and family can and will never understand. When you use a name like that, you intrude upon that. Granted, it may seem slight, but for many of us, it's one of the few wonderful things to come out of such a horrible situation. It's what we hold on to and in many ways, it's all we've got. I don't think you want to dishonor that.

Thanks to all the other vets that have come out here. It's good to see everyone standing side by side.

Good Luck.
Excellent post. This vet welcomes you to SDN. 👍
 
TheMightyAngus said:
Interesting post. On another note, could you clarify what is meant by the term Ranger? I hear this term tossed around in the media all the time, but I have no idea what being a Ranger actually entails and why is it such a faux pas for the OP to use this to identify himself.

I'm not Army, but as I understand it, there is Ranger school, which is an elite school for soldiers to go through. Many Army officers go through that, get the Ranger tab as a result, but are not in the specific Ranger units. There are elite units of Rangers though. It's kind of like "medium elite". The Army has Rangers, Green Berets, and then I think Delta Force is the most elite.

Anyway, that's how I understand it from outside that culture. I just carry 'em.
 
MoosePilot said:
I'm not Army, but as I understand it, there is Ranger school, which is an elite school for soldiers to go through. Many Army officers go through that, get the Ranger tab as a result, but are not in the specific Ranger units. There are elite units of Rangers though. It's kind of like "medium elite". The Army has Rangers, Green Berets, and then I think Delta Force is the most elite.

Anyway, that's how I understand it from outside that culture. I just carry 'em.

This post is close, but not quite right. There are not "gradiations" of elite ranger units. A Ranger unit is a ranger unit - no such thing as an elite sub unit of Rangers.

"Green Berets" and Delta Force soldiers fall under the command of the Special Forces command. None are necessarily more elite than others, and all have grueling training. The difference lies in their respective missions. Special Forces assist with the development and training of other military forces, as well as doing some covert work. Delata Forces respond to terror attacks such as kidnappings and rescue operations, while rangers are the hard-core infantry soldiers that are sent in when a regular unit just won't do.

Nonetheless, the point here is that the OP has no place referring to himself as any of the above.
 
roboyce said:
I normally don't bring my opinion to bear on issues like the one presented above, but this time, I feel that I need to contribute to the discussion taking place...

That was one of the most reasoned and well stated posts I have ever read on SDN. Are you sure you want to be a doctor? You'd make a great writer or platoon leade... wait a minute, nevermind. Come be a doctor. We need more like you.

As for my reference to the Cav, I was with Regimental Recon for the 11th ACR at Ft. Irwin, CA. A Blackhorse; Krasnovian, if you will. If you came through NTC, it's quite likely I placed some precisely called artillery up your @$$. I was a 19 Delta (scout), but liked being my squad's combat lifesaver so much that I later reclassified to become a medic. I liked being a medic so much that I am reclassifying to become a physician.

It may come as a surprise that I too dropped out of a commissioning program. To clarify my earlier post though, it was not because of any distain for the role or mission I was assigned. It was simply because I was halfway through OCS when accepted to Medical School, so it didn't make sense becoming a line LT only to transfer directly to MC when I started school (the commissioning process for MC physicians is vastly different from the OCS program I was in; it would have been a waste of the Army's time and money for me to continue).
 
Flopotomist said:
This post is close, but not quite right. There are not "gradiations" of elite ranger units. A Ranger unit is a ranger unit - no such thing as an elite sub unit of Rangers.

"Green Berets" and Delta Force soldiers fall under the command of the Special Forces command. None are necessarily more elite than others, and all have grueling training. The difference lies in their respective missions. Special Forces assist with the development and training of other military forces, as well as doing some covert work. Delata Forces respond to terror attacks such as kidnappings and rescue operations, while rangers are the hard-core infantry soldiers that are sent in when a regular unit just won't do.

Nonetheless, the point here is that the OP has no place referring to himself as any of the above.

I agree, totally off topic digression, but it's interesting to me. Mind if you continue edumacating this trash hauler?

I was using elite to modify unit, not to modify "ranger unit". In other words, there are ranger only units and then there are ranger school graduates in normal units. Is that right?

I understand your point about there not being levels of "elite" but just different missions, but since the ones I named higher usually recruit from the ones I named lower... doesn't that establish a sort of hierarchy? For instance, wouldn't the normal progression for a soldier in Delta Force have been something like make a name for himself in the infantry, go to the Rangers, become a Green Beret, get recruited into Delta?

I read way too many war novels :laugh:
 
MoosePilot said:
For instance, wouldn't the normal progression for a soldier in Delta Force have been something like make a name for himself in the infantry, go to the Rangers, become a Green Beret, get recruited into Delta?

I read way too many war novels :laugh:

No, the progression you mentioned is not necessarily "normal." You can enter any of the three without having been a member of a "lower rung," there are no lower rungs. I am sure that each group thinks that they are superior to the rest, but in fairness, each group is made of an amazing group of highly trained, dedicated professionals

It is sorta like saying which is more elite, a police officer, a fire fighter, or a paramedic. They each would argue that they are some how superior, but in truth, it is simply a different job that they are doing.
 
Supadupafly said:
As for my reference to the Cav, I was with Regimental Recon for the 11th ACR at Ft. Irwin, CA. A Blackhorse; Krasnovian, if you will. If you came through NTC, it's quite likely I placed some precisely called artillery up your @$$.

I worked on an EH-60 (intel/electronic warfare) primarily. We were considered an "unfair" advantage at NTC, so we weren't allowed to go - booo.
 
EvoDevo said:
Excellent post. This vet welcomes you to SDN. 👍


Agreed with Evo. normally I don't read such super long posts. But this one had me very interested and I applaud you and welcome you too.
 
Ranger9879 said:
my reason for transferring from West Point is because after the death of my best friend in Iraq last October, i started to reassess what i wanted in life and found that it would be better not holding an M-16 assault rifle killing another human being, guilty or not. i didn't want that in my future. Rather, i wanted to be on the opposite side of the spectrum. I also will tie in my low GPA at the U.S Military Academy, a result from my difference in goals and my desire to incorporate a military lifestyle into academics. Would this be a good essay topic for med school?


yes and no. Sorry about your friend.

As for the essay:First off, you can't be melodramatic about "not wanting to be a killer;" were you ever in combat?

Next is the whole question of "dedication"/quitting. Med schools will consider your "transfer" as quitting -- not just a simple transfer -- since West Point isn't your typical college, and going there implies you've committed to a military career. Since you're very young, you can probably explain it away in a thoughtful essay. Just don't go accusing the military as being "killers."
 
Flopotomist said:
I worked on an EH-60 (intel/electronic warfare) primarily. We were considered an "unfair" advantage at NTC, so we weren't allowed to go - booo.

Thats so hilarious because whenever our radios were f-d up (we used PRCs instead of SINCGARS, because it seemed more authentic), we assumed bluefor had ECMs & such and were jamming us. Guess it was just crappy leftover Vietnam manpacks.
 
The term Ranger denotes a soldier specially trained to be part of a very elite unit. It is possible to attend the training (as many officers do) and not go on to serve in a Ranger unit. These people generally do not refer to themselves as "rangers."

Not twice anyway, or at least not around people that'd know better.

As the saying goes, "Getting the (Ranger) tab is just a school. The (Regiment) scroll is a lifestyle..." I believe currently any MOS can go to Ranger School, not just combat arms as it has been in the past.

Moose, that is probably viewed as the "normal" progression because so many of the high-speed combat arms guys go to Ranger School and while they perform vastly different missions, it prepares them quite well for the field tasks and basic soldiering skills that are selected for, among other abilities, during the SF entrance process. Therefore many SF soldiers will have a Ranger Tab, but it isn't a prereq in the truest sense. In fact these days you can go try your hand at becoming an SF soldier straight off the street.

I would venture to say that if you hear the term in the media, which given the state of things, you do, that person was a member of the Ranger Regiment, and not just someone who attended the school.

Cheers

Edited to add: And a "green beret" is a hat, not the person wearing it... 😀
 
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