Know what your truly getting into being a dentist.

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

What are your biggest worries, choose 2.

  • Corona virus

    Votes: 2 2.4%
  • corporate takeover

    Votes: 19 22.4%
  • debt

    Votes: 47 55.3%
  • saturation

    Votes: 34 40.0%
  • insurance crap

    Votes: 11 12.9%
  • socialized dentistry

    Votes: 5 5.9%
  • regretting choice

    Votes: 11 12.9%
  • ethics of field

    Votes: 3 3.5%
  • wrecking body

    Votes: 16 18.8%
  • dental therapist

    Votes: 3 3.5%
  • reading more negative threads

    Votes: 7 8.2%
  • other, post response

    Votes: 1 1.2%

  • Total voters
    85

A_Mdent

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2019
Messages
32
Reaction score
92
Yes another one of these. (ramblings of a disheartened dentist, Corona edition)

I am a GD a year out of School and lost my job due to the pandemic a couple weeks ago. As I sit here watching TV and eating all the junk food in my house, I've been worrying (as many are) about finding another job, providing for my family, and paying off my debts. Even before SHTF I've started having regret for choosing dentistry, now I can't help but feel sick I did (pun). I wish I would have paid more attention to the "nay sayers" about this field. My goal with this post is not to "thin the competition" as there are way to many dentist to make a difference, but instead I want to highlight all the major challenges to being a dentist (besides debt and saturation) so you don't find yourself in my shoes 4 years down the road feeling pretty stupid you didn't see all the red flags. So without further ado, my opinion of the greatest to least challenges to dentistry. (I do not have research and stats, just observations and talking with other dentists). Drumroll please:

1) Debt. No surprise here, school cost are insane and downright criminal. My opinion is schools have abused the basically blank checks given by federal loans, because nothing more than greed. I know schools are expensive to run, but the rise in COL during the 2000s is highly suspicious. Basically know how much you will owe every month after you graduate and compare that your expected monthly income minus expenses (COL, taxes, debt, insurances, etc). If your smart enough to get into Dschool, your smart enough to understand the numbers. I don't buy all these people claiming now days they didn't realize what they were signing into, debt wise.

2) Saturation. Short and simple, there are too many dentist. IDK about the whole rural thing, but I didn't spend 8 eff'n years and $100 thousands in debt to live in some crappy town of 5000 people because desirable places are so cut throat. Realize places you want to live in are going to be a grind. If your from a small town, you have an advantage here. Schools keep opening up, classes keep expanding, throw in some foreign dentists just to be safe and bam. Supersaturation.

2.5) Ethics. I've seen some questionable tx, as have my classmates, because the pressure to make money is there. I was not willing to do tx I wouldn't do on my own family and I knew that limited my income. I worked for a private practice who had a few offices and associates. Most, if not all, of the things were not super bad, for ex. doing occlusal fillings on medicaid pts that probably didn't need to be done. And I thought my boss and coworkers were pretty honest so I can't imagine what's going on in some offices.

3) Insurance. They suck. Benefits haven't increases in decades and reimbursements are always being decreased. Only being a year out I haven't had too much experience, but I have experienced insurance deciding to not paid on work done for some stupid reason, and there isn't much you can do about it because they are such a big part of providing pts.

4) Corporations. You know the reputation. They tend to overwork and pressure for shady treatment. This model will make dentist the new optometrist and pharmacist. Nothing wrong with those jobs, I also don't think the debt is as bad tho.

5) Corona. New kid on the block. I imagine our economy will be slow for a while meaning less people will be spending at the dentist. In addition, I can see new regulations and requirements for PPE and care to protect the pt, AKA more $$$ to run an office. This one worries me the most in the short term in finding a decent job.

6) Socialized Dental. We all know medicare for all will eventually pass in our lifetime. I imagine we'll get rolled into it. If you look at europe where they have this style of healthcare, dentist don't make bank at all, its like getting a bachelors degree.

7) Dental therapist. Just another profession to take a slice out of dentistry. They will only do the basic stuff, you know, the same bread and butter procedures that most dentist rely on. More and more states are starting to pass them. I don't see them just staying in poor rural areas, they will eventually demand to work anywhere....desirable places.

8) Overhead. Everything is getting more expensive...with less dental reimbursements. CE, materials, payroll, rent, equipment, everything is super expensive and only increases, while on the other hand dentist need to rely on free whitening and coupons to get people in the door. smh.

9) physical. This job can wreck your body, specifically your neck and back, wrist too. There have been some days I come home exhausted with a sore neck and back. I know there are much more physical jobs, but don't think dentistry is a cake walk either. And now with corona, dentist are always going to be be at a higher risk for infections, its part of the game.

10) Respect. Not a challenge per se. But it get old when people treat dentist with no respect. I can not tell you how many times a parent doesn't look up from their phone while i'm examining their kid, or even the pt listening to headphones or some app while I walk in and basically I have to act cool while this jerk is taking their sweet time putting it away.

11) Stuck. One real crappy thing is once you graduate, you are locked in. Unless you had family, military, scholarship pay for school you will have a lot of debt to pay off so you can't leave the profession. I can't imagine starting over in school. Dentist don't have a lot of different career options, its basically clinical, academic, work for insurance, consult if your good. etc. with clinical paying the best and the rest dropping off real fast.


Some positives.
There is a good feeling in helping someone look or feel better. The paycheck is decent but not crazy good. Hours aren't bad. There is a little pride in obtaining the Dr. Status. Its mostly interesting work and involves art and workmanship. Of course there will be people that make bank, just like there is in every profession. But that bell curve still has 50% making less than average, and in the future that average is just going to keep decreasing.

In the end, all that really matters to me is that my gorgeous wife and beautiful daughter are healthy and happy, all my concerns/bitching would go out the window if anything were to happen to them. But if you are considering or barely starting a career in dentistry, take a min to think about the challenges. Because they are very much real and if your choosing dental for the money and lifestyle there is a high risk you will be let down.

Happy quarantining everyone!

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 15 users
thank you for taking the time to post this! no one could ever say I wasn't told about the reality.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
We need more people like you to share their thoughts.

Dentistry is difficult, but COVID changes everything in my opinion. The occupational hazards just increased tremendously and it’s highly likely that our workflow will have to change with new infection control policies. There is a very real possibility that dentists may not be able to hop from room to room and treat multiple patients at the same time like most of us do now. If this is the case, our incomes will absolutely plummet (at least in the near term). For anyone considering going to dental school at the current prices I would absolutely reconsider this decision.

COVID will have at least 2 waves and it hits our profession much harder than most others due to the nature of our work.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Members don't see this ad :)
And for the opposing view, in the blue corner.... OK, a little preamble, mainly for the OP. Man, bro, bud (whatever general friendly addressing word you prefer) - some of my writing style can be aggressive. It's not my intention at all and I am very grateful that you took the time to shed some reality, as you see it, for others. I also sense that you are going thru some hard times with the COVID crap (who isn't!). I (we) are here for you and I am happy to chat on here and in private if you need to talk.

...OK here goes:

1) Dental school ain't cheap, that's for sure. You will get out w about 400K debt. HOWEVER: If you are willing to take a salaried job at 150K/year at an FQHC or community clinic, you can have up to 300K of that loan forgiven. In addition, cost of any education is stupidly expensive, regardless of the profession. With dentistry, however, you are basically guaranteed 250K salary after 2-3 years in the field, with no limit on earning potential.

2) Saturation, in my opinion, is a myth. This may shock someone, but hear me out. For one, more dentists are graduating, sure, but our population is increasing as well. In 2000, US population per census was 281 mil, whereas 2020 projected number is 336 mil (55 mil increase, or 20%). You can't expect the same number of dentists to treat 55 million more people, can you? I also happen to practice in the Bay Area, one of the most "saturated" places in the US. We see a ton of new patients and have no issues with competition. Most of my peers would agree with me.

3) Not going into a profession because certain members of that profession may have questionable morals is, well, questionable....

4) Insurance sucks...has been for decades now. This may be the only drawback of the profession, from the operations standpoint. There are ways to combat it though. For one, we are on the offensive against Delta Dental and I hope that this COVID crisis will serve as a catalyst for us to organize and finally create some change. It's the only insurance provider my offices are in-network with and if they carry on with their shenanigans, we will soon be fully insurance free!

5) Heard that a lot. Yes, there will be changes. All professionals evolve - don't forget, only 120 years ago we shared space with barbers....When the HIV crisis started, dentists cried the same song over PPE, such as gloves, and how their overheads would sky-rocket. Business practice models will restructure to accommodate for the changes. It will be fine.

6) Which European countries exactly? France, Germany, and UK have similar styles of practice as we do. Even Russia has them - my good friend is a prosthodontist in Moscow and is killing it. Sure, more community practices will pop up in the US. In CA, dental medicare (Denti-Cal) has been around for a couple of decades. Some people opt for it, most go for private. Same thing with medicine - we have had medicare for decades, but this didn't prevent private practices from operating.

7) NPs have been around for decades, yet I don't know of any MDs who complain about that. If you read what the scope of practice for therapists actually is, it doesn't affect regular practices anyway. Then there is common sense - ask yourself, who would you like to drill on your tooth? That's what most people would say, too.

8) Overhead - I lecture/consult on biz and let me tell you, the real issue is that dentists-owners just need basic business/management training. I promise you that 9/10 dentists can't explain the difference between fixed and variable expenses or how to setup a basic Dupont framework. Yet they act surprised when they can't efficiently run a multimillion dollar enterprise (aka average dental practice). If your overhead is more than 65%, you need help. Free whitening coupons? What is this, 1999?

9) I agree it's not the physically easiest job in the world. But come on, seriously. There are enough tougher jobs out there to make this a non-issue for us. Practice proper ergonomics, work out, get a weekly massage, take vacations, and you'll be just as likely to have a disability as any other desk job. As for higher risk of IDs, sure - we are doctors, we tend to work on sick people. Comes with the territory and relatively big bucks.

10) Sorry, but sounds like a chip on one's shoulder. This "jerk" putting away their headphones elected to entrust their health and well-being in your hands and is about to be the most unprotected and vulnerable as they have been in their life - letting you work in the MOUTH. It is terrifying for most people and everyone copes with it differently. What else do you want from them, flowers and a bow? As for rudeness, you can encounter it anywhere. Learn to deal with it and get over yourself. Sorry if this comes off harsh, I'm writing to you as a proverbial friend.

11) Yep - it's a commitment for life. It's a risk. As much of a risk as it is for someone to spend 4 years on a Humanities Degree. All career choices come with that risk. Sure it's a lot of potentially wasted investment of time, so choose wisely. But it's not the Mafia - you CAN leave the profession if you are that miserable.

So, it's not all doom and gloom. In fact, in my opinion, it's an AWESOME time to be a dentist, if you hear the calling. If not, then it's just a job and any "just job" just sucks.

Yes another one of these. (ramblings of a disheartened dentist, Corona edition)


Happy quarantining everyone!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 24 users
And for the opposing view, in the blue corner.... OK, a little preamble, mainly for the OP. Man, bro, bud (whatever general friendly addressing word you prefer) - some of my writing style can be aggressive. It's not my intention at all and I am very grateful that you took the time to shed some reality, as you see it, for others. I also sense that you are going thru some hard times with the COVID crap (who isn't!). I (we) are here for you and I am happy to chat on here and in private if you need to talk.

...OK here goes:

1) Dental school ain't cheap, that's for sure. You will get out w about 400K debt. HOWEVER: If you are willing to take a salaried job at 150K/year at an FQHC or community clinic, you can have up to 300K of that loan forgiven. In addition, cost of any education is stupidly expensive, regardless of the profession. With dentistry, however, you are basically guaranteed 250K salary after 2-3 years in the field, with no limit on earning potential.

2) Saturation, in my opinion, is a myth. This may shock someone, but hear me out. For one, more dentists are graduating, sure, but our population is increasing as well. In 2000, US population per census was 281 mil, whereas 2020 projected number is 336 mil (55 mil increase, or 20%). You can't expect the same number of dentists to treat 55 million more people, can you? I also happen to practice in the Bay Area, one of the most "saturated" places in the US. We see a ton of new patients and have no issues with competition. Most of my peers would agree with me.

3) Not going into a profession because certain members of that profession may have questionable morals is, well, questionable....

4) Insurance sucks...has been for decades now. This may be the only drawback of the profession, from the operations standpoint. There are ways to combat it though. For one, we are on the offensive against Delta Dental and I hope that this COVID crisis will serve as a catalyst for us to organize and finally create some change. It's the only insurance provider my offices are in-network with and if they carry on with their shenanigans, we will soon be fully insurance free!

5) Heard that a lot. Yes, there will be changes. All professionals evolve - don't forget, only 120 years ago we shared space with barbers....When the HIV crisis started, dentists cried the same song over PPE, such as gloves, and how their overheads would sky-rocket. Business practice models will restructure to accommodate for the changes. It will be fine.

6) Which European countries exactly? France, Germany, and UK have similar styles of practice as we do. Even Russia has them - my good friend is a prosthodontist in Moscow and is killing it. Sure, more community practices will pop up in the US. In CA, dental medicare (Denti-Cal) has been around for a couple of decades. Some people opt for it, most go for private. Same thing with medicine - we have had medicare for decades, but this didn't prevent private practices from operating.

7) NPs have been around for decades, yet I don't know of any MDs who complain about that. If you read what the scope of practice for therapists actually is, it doesn't affect regular practices anyway. Then there is common sense - ask yourself, who would you like to drill on your tooth? That's what most people would say, too.

8) Overhead - I lecture/consult on biz and let me tell you, the real issue is that dentists-owners just need basic business/management training. I promise you that 9/10 dentists can't explain the difference between fixed and variable expenses or how to setup a basic Dupont framework. Yet they act surprised when they can't efficiently run a multimillion dollar enterprise (aka average dental practice). If your overhead is more than 65%, you need help. Free whitening coupons? What is this, 1999?

9) I agree it's not the physically easiest job in the world. But come on, seriously. There are enough tougher jobs out there to make this a non-issue for us. Practice proper ergonomics, work out, get a weekly massage, take vacations, and you'll be just as likely to have a disability as any other desk job. As for higher risk of IDs, sure - we are doctors, we tend to work on sick people. Comes with the territory and relatively big bucks.

10) Sorry, but sounds like a chip on one's shoulder. This "jerk" putting away their headphones elected to entrust their health and well-being in your hands and is about to be the most unprotected and vulnerable as they have been in their life - letting you work in the MOUTH. It is terrifying for most people and everyone copes with it differently. What else do you want from them, flowers and a bow? As for rudeness, you can encounter it anywhere. Learn to deal with it and get over yourself. Sorry if this comes off harsh, I'm writing to you as a proverbial friend.

11) Yep - it's a commitment for life. It's a risk. As much of a risk as it is for someone to spend 4 years on a Humanities Degree. All career choices come with that risk. Sure it's a lot of potentially wasted investment of time, so choose wisely. But it's not the Mafia - you CAN leave the profession if you are that miserable.

So, it's not all doom and gloom. In fact, in my opinion, it's an AWESOME time to be a dentist, if you hear the calling. If not, then it's just a job and any "just job" just sucks.
thank you as well for taking the time to write your thoughts. As someone who has studied the last six years to become a dentist and is matriculating this summer into dental school, I am excited/anxious/nervous to pursue this career. COVID-19 has opened my eyes to what it means to be a essential healthcare provider and how this type of crisis can affect dentistry.

I am happy that you and A_Mdent post about the "realities" of dentistry
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
And for the opposing view, in the blue corner.... OK, a little preamble, mainly for the OP. Man, bro, bud (whatever general friendly addressing word you prefer) - some of my writing style can be aggressive. It's not my intention at all and I am very grateful that you took the time to shed some reality, as you see it, for others. I also sense that you are going thru some hard times with the COVID crap (who isn't!). I (we) are here for you and I am happy to chat on here and in private if you need to talk.

...OK here goes:

1) Dental school ain't cheap, that's for sure. You will get out w about 400K debt. HOWEVER: If you are willing to take a salaried job at 150K/year at an FQHC or community clinic, you can have up to 300K of that loan forgiven. In addition, cost of any education is stupidly expensive, regardless of the profession. With dentistry, however, you are basically guaranteed 250K salary after 2-3 years in the field, with no limit on earning potential.

2) Saturation, in my opinion, is a myth. This may shock someone, but hear me out. For one, more dentists are graduating, sure, but our population is increasing as well. In 2000, US population per census was 281 mil, whereas 2020 projected number is 336 mil (55 mil increase, or 20%). You can't expect the same number of dentists to treat 55 million more people, can you? I also happen to practice in the Bay Area, one of the most "saturated" places in the US. We see a ton of new patients and have no issues with competition. Most of my peers would agree with me.

3) Not going into a profession because certain members of that profession may have questionable morals is, well, questionable....

4) Insurance sucks...has been for decades now. This may be the only drawback of the profession, from the operations standpoint. There are ways to combat it though. For one, we are on the offensive against Delta Dental and I hope that this COVID crisis will serve as a catalyst for us to organize and finally create some change. It's the only insurance provider my offices are in-network with and if they carry on with their shenanigans, we will soon be fully insurance free!

5) Heard that a lot. Yes, there will be changes. All professionals evolve - don't forget, only 120 years ago we shared space with barbers....When the HIV crisis started, dentists cried the same song over PPE, such as gloves, and how their overheads would sky-rocket. Business practice models will restructure to accommodate for the changes. It will be fine.

6) Which European countries exactly? France, Germany, and UK have similar styles of practice as we do. Even Russia has them - my good friend is a prosthodontist in Moscow and is killing it. Sure, more community practices will pop up in the US. In CA, dental medicare (Denti-Cal) has been around for a couple of decades. Some people opt for it, most go for private. Same thing with medicine - we have had medicare for decades, but this didn't prevent private practices from operating.

7) NPs have been around for decades, yet I don't know of any MDs who complain about that. If you read what the scope of practice for therapists actually is, it doesn't affect regular practices anyway. Then there is common sense - ask yourself, who would you like to drill on your tooth? That's what most people would say, too.

8) Overhead - I lecture/consult on biz and let me tell you, the real issue is that dentists-owners just need basic business/management training. I promise you that 9/10 dentists can't explain the difference between fixed and variable expenses or how to setup a basic Dupont framework. Yet they act surprised when they can't efficiently run a multimillion dollar enterprise (aka average dental practice). If your overhead is more than 65%, you need help. Free whitening coupons? What is this, 1999?

9) I agree it's not the physically easiest job in the world. But come on, seriously. There are enough tougher jobs out there to make this a non-issue for us. Practice proper ergonomics, work out, get a weekly massage, take vacations, and you'll be just as likely to have a disability as any other desk job. As for higher risk of IDs, sure - we are doctors, we tend to work on sick people. Comes with the territory and relatively big bucks.

10) Sorry, but sounds like a chip on one's shoulder. This "jerk" putting away their headphones elected to entrust their health and well-being in your hands and is about to be the most unprotected and vulnerable as they have been in their life - letting you work in the MOUTH. It is terrifying for most people and everyone copes with it differently. What else do you want from them, flowers and a bow? As for rudeness, you can encounter it anywhere. Learn to deal with it and get over yourself. Sorry if this comes off harsh, I'm writing to you as a proverbial friend.

11) Yep - it's a commitment for life. It's a risk. As much of a risk as it is for someone to spend 4 years on a Humanities Degree. All career choices come with that risk. Sure it's a lot of potentially wasted investment of time, so choose wisely. But it's not the Mafia - you CAN leave the profession if you are that miserable.

So, it's not all doom and gloom. In fact, in my opinion, it's an AWESOME time to be a dentist, if you hear the calling. If not, then it's just a job and any "just job" just sucks.
Definitely this. Glad there’s someone showing the other side of the coin. Lots of times we can just constantly read one side of things and have a distorted view.

Just to add, IMO a lot of times a students option is either dental school for a doctorate degree/good salary and solid lifestyle even accounting for debt, or a bachelors in biology making 30k/year
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
And for the opposing view, in the blue corner.... OK, a little preamble, mainly for the OP. Man, bro, bud (whatever general friendly addressing word you prefer) - some of my writing style can be aggressive. It's not my intention at all and I am very grateful that you took the time to shed some reality, as you see it, for others. I also sense that you are going thru some hard times with the COVID crap (who isn't!). I (we) are here for you and I am happy to chat on here and in private if you need to talk.
...OK here goes:
OP here. Thank you for your response and taking the time to read my post/reply. I appreciate your viewpoints but I do have some disagreements. Please address me as bro or dr. haha jk. First, would you share how long have you been out and what was your debt load, cuz I think that plays a huge role. My responses to your points below.

1) Dental school ain't cheap, that's for sure. You will get out w about 400K debt. HOWEVER: If you are willing to take a salaried job at 150K/year at an FQHC or community clinic, you can have up to 300K of that loan forgiven. In addition, cost of any education is stupidly expensive, regardless of the profession. With dentistry, however, you are basically guaranteed 250K salary after 2-3 years in the field, with no limit on earning potential.
I think dentist lead overall with COA. I sure hope your right about that salary estimate, but I fear the challenges to the field will make that ALOT harder than you make it seem, especially covid, possible future socialized dental, corporate. Do you disagree? I would love to be terribly wrong about that tho. IMHO without research, i think IBR and PAYE programs is what's keeping this whole dental school house of cards from falling, without it so many people would barely be above water.

2) Saturation, in my opinion, is a myth. This may shock someone, but hear me out. For one, more dentists are graduating, sure, but our population is increasing as well. In 2000, US population per census was 281 mil, whereas 2020 projected number is 336 mil (55 mil increase, or 20%). You can't expect the same number of dentists to treat 55 million more people, can you? I also happen to practice in the Bay Area, one of the most "saturated" places in the US. We see a ton of new patients and have no issues with competition. Most of my peers would agree with me.
I respectfully disagree. I'm not saying there won't be any successful dentist, but there will be more that struggle than in the past in my opinion. Source: google dentist in any city. Even small flippen cities like literally "flippen, Georgia" has plenty of dentist flippen georgia dentist (mostly a joke haha) Seriously tho, I think this upcoming recession will be an eye opener when even good* associate jobs are hard to find, again hope i'm terribly wrong.

3) Not going into a profession because certain members of that profession may have questionable morals is, well, questionable....
Nope, dentist are health care providers who took an oath to do no harm. Its disgusting when there are colleagues doing wrong by the patient for their pockets, and i don't mean perio pockets. I could easily link article after article of dentist getting caught doing shady stuff. I know every profession has its bad actors but the nature of dentistry and its procedures makes things easy to abuse, like extra fillings, srp, crowns etc. I think it will get only get worse as the economy tightens up, perhaps boards and states will try to prevent it with more laws and documentation, which only makes it harder to practice. My points is, its pretty discouraging to do all the schooling and become a "dr" to have to deal with pressure to not be shady, either from your office boss or your monthly bills.

4) Insurance sucks...has been for decades now. This may be the only drawback of the profession, from the operations standpoint. There are ways to combat it though. For one, we are on the offensive against Delta Dental and I hope that this COVID crisis will serve as a catalyst for us to organize and finally create some change. It's the only insurance provider my offices are in-network with and if they carry on with their shenanigans, we will soon be fully insurance free!
Insurance sucks

5) Heard that a lot. Yes, there will be changes. All professionals evolve - don't forget, only 120 years ago we shared space with barbers....When the HIV crisis started, dentists cried the same song over PPE, such as gloves, and how their overheads would sky-rocket. Business practice models will restructure to accommodate for the changes. It will be fine.
No one knows the impact yet, could be nothing, could be drastic. The pandemic basically showed dentist are only barely essential as most offices shut down to like 10% function, pulling this number out of my butt, but still. I think you under estimate how little the state needs to change to make dentistry much harder to do. Look at Pennsylvania response (that they eventually pulled back) it was like you needed n95 mask, negative pressure rooms, etc Pennsylvania adjusts dental restrictions to allow emergency procedures lots of dentist make their money jumping room to room, one small change to the law and bam, good bye high production. Again hope I'm wrong.

6) Which European countries exactly? France, Germany, and UK have similar styles of practice as we do. Even Russia has them - my good friend is a prosthodontist in Moscow and is killing it. Sure, more community practices will pop up in the US. In CA, dental medicare (Denti-Cal) has been around for a couple of decades. Some people opt for it, most go for private. Same thing with medicine - we have had medicare for decades, but this didn't prevent private practices from operating.
Have you looked at reimbursements around the country from medicaid, most of them would be very hard to profit with. I doubt socialized dental would make us well off. As far as europe goes, I only have the info from forums and dentist that i have met from some of these countries, specifically spain, italy, ireland. Of course there are people who do well, but I bet the majority make much much less than even the average here. Just a quick google showed this, idk if this is accurate.


7) NPs have been around for decades, yet I don't know of any MDs who complain about that. If you read what the scope of practice for therapists actually is, it doesn't affect regular practices anyway. Then there is common sense - ask yourself, who would you like to drill on your tooth? That's what most people would say, too.
I don't think medicine and dentistry are super comparable with NP and dental therapist, medicine is so much bigger and more money is involved. Fillings and simple extractions are very simple to do, I don't think the average person would care who did it if its cheaper and did good. They might not be affecting dentist currently, but they will eventually get bigger and more widespread. Again I don't have hard facts, but if they do fillings and extraction, crowns?, I don't know how they wouldn't be competing with you if they were to ever end up down the road. I can see corporate offices lobbying for them since they will be cheaper and just have 1 dentist oversee them. Sure super dentist won't be as affected, but alot of us average dentist will.

8) Overhead - I lecture/consult on biz and let me tell you, the real issue is that dentists-owners just need basic business/management training. I promise you that 9/10 dentists can't explain the difference between fixed and variable expenses or how to setup a basic Dupont framework. Yet they act surprised when they can't efficiently run a multimillion dollar enterprise (aka average dental practice). If your overhead is more than 65%, you need help. Free whitening coupons? What is this, 1999?
Sure business savvy dentist will be better off, but like you said your average dentist isn't. Regardless, dental material and equipment is pretty damn expensive and will continue to be so. How can a small solo practice compete with large corps getting large discounts due to purchasing power and quantity.

9) I agree it's not the physically easiest job in the world. But come on, seriously. There are enough tougher jobs out there to make this a non-issue for us. Practice proper ergonomics, work out, get a weekly massage, take vacations, and you'll be just as likely to have a disability as any other desk job. As for higher risk of IDs, sure - we are doctors, we tend to work on sick people. Comes with the territory and relatively big bucks.
I was just pointing out its not an easy job, and if your not careful it will hurt you. A few of my dental professors were teaching because of injuries. Its easy to overlook the physical demand dentistry has, sure its not roofing but its also not a cozy office computer job either, even though we sit 90% of the time.

10) Sorry, but sounds like a chip on one's shoulder. This "jerk" putting away their headphones elected to entrust their health and well-being in your hands and is about to be the most unprotected and vulnerable as they have been in their life - letting you work in the MOUTH. It is terrifying for most people and everyone copes with it differently. What else do you want from them, flowers and a bow? As for rudeness, you can encounter it anywhere. Learn to deal with it and get over yourself. Sorry if this comes off harsh, I'm writing to you as a proverbial friend.
I know people in general are less considerate, but I bet "real" drs don't put up with half the crap we do. Dentist aren't seen at the same level as medical, in tv and movies we are usually the punchline haha. Look, I don't care about the Dr. title one bit, and i'm not a power hungry person so it never affects me personally, but I know some people do care about the dr title and I was pointing it out that it shouldn't be a motivator to be a dentist. I actually don't have Dr. or DDS on credit cards, mail, or any of that crap, besides one email i use for licensing.

11) Yep - it's a commitment for life. It's a risk. As much of a risk as it is for someone to spend 4 years on a Humanities Degree. All career choices come with that risk. Sure it's a lot of potentially wasted investment of time, so choose wisely. But it's not the Mafia - you CAN leave the profession if you are that miserable.
You know, shadowing will never truly show what the struggles are, but once you realize it after you graduate, your locked in. If I could go back in time I would for sure do something different. But sadly that isn't really viable option, of course you CAN leave but rarely anyone does because the investment was too great to throw away. Starting over later in life is usually way worse than continuing on even if your not happy.
My whole point of the original post was to highlight real challenges that most people will face, so people can have a true perspective from the average guy who just got out. The person in the middle of the bell curve will have a much different opinion than those 2 standard deviations to the right (if that's you, congrats!)


So, it's not all doom and gloom. In fact, in my opinion, it's an AWESOME time to be a dentist, if you hear the calling. If not, then it's just a job and any "just job" just sucks. I mean I'm going to make the most of it, but yes it is just a job to me. Its nice to help people and I hope I can make a good living doing it. However I am worried about the future, I think covid has some real potential it making dentistry a hard profession, in terms of PPE, economy, healthcare politics, unemployment, etc. In 10-20 years if I'm wrong, you can totally say "I told you so" and i will gladly say i was wrong.
 
Definitely this. Glad there’s someone showing the other side of the coin. Lots of times we can just constantly read one side of things and have a distorted view.

Just to add, IMO a lot of times a students option is either dental school for a doctorate degree/good salary and solid lifestyle even accounting for debt, or a bachelors in biology making 30k/year

When I was applying I mostly heard about the debt and saturation problem, which imo is true. But some of the other things that worry me aren't as talked about (but still important) so my intention just to give other an honest opinion of challenges I face/see. A lot of people that come back and are dental cheer leaders are very successful and want to share that (good on them) but its very important to know how much debt they had, where they practice, special skills etc. Someone who is on the far right of the bell curve sharing their experience doesn't really reflect the average middle of the curve person you know? Sure you can look up to them and make it a goal, but incase you end up average, Im your guy lol.

As for as biology degree, ya its pathetic as a bachelors. I think most people who do biology are thinking for grad or professional school, so your right its better to go on and get more education and at that point you really have only a handful of options. I think dentistry is becoming the worse option for a biology degree though when you account the debt and future challenges we face, that's obviously just my opinion.

If person after person come back and complain about the same thing (debt, saturation, etc) its usually because there is some truth to that....now if 1 person came back and said, dentistry sucks because everyday my patients take a literal crap in my office, ....ya that's easy to brush off as 1 guys experience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
thank you as well for taking the time to write your thoughts. As someone who has studied the last six years to become a dentist and is matriculating this summer into dental school, I am excited/anxious/nervous to pursue this career. COVID-19 has opened my eyes to what it means to be a essential healthcare provider and how this type of crisis can affect dentistry.

I am happy that you and A_Mdent post about the "realities" of dentistry
Hey good luck! I'm glad you took the time to read both our post. I think as long as you go in with open eyes and understand what your getting into you should do great in whatever you decide!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I started the other thread to inform them but you delivered much better. I rather be “pessimistic” but realistic. I know at least 2 people from my class whom left dentistry right after graduation because they didn’t enjoy/personal reasons. Two that didn’t graduate and few that are having hard time finding right jobs. Yes, any job can have it’s pros/cons, but a lot of you forget, you spend at least four years post-college education. And the average Joe doesn’t have rich parents, which means you are going to be graduating with about 400-600k in debt and most likely land an average job which you end up anywhere from 120-150 k per year as an associate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Covid-19 is ruining dental schools as well, delayed graduation, online tests (and the cheating scandals that go with it), no tuition reimbursement for the month(s) we will not be in school... running out of masks! downplaying the virus' risks and telling everyone it's safe we should all just come back to school after two weeks! even though none of the patients want to risk coming in...

The virus is gonna hurt around 60% of the people in our country, dentists and dental students included sadly

I know a dentist FB group that is banding together to purchase masks from canada rn. If I were a practicing dentist I'd apply for those small business loans and paycheck guarantee or whatever from the CARE act... still waiting for those checks from congress
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I started the other thread to inform them but you delivered much better. I rather be “pessimistic” but realistic. I know at least 2 people from my class whom left dentistry right after graduation because they didn’t enjoy/personal reasons. Two that didn’t graduate and few that are having hard time finding right jobs. Yes, any job can have it’s pros/cons, but a lot of you forget, you spend at least four years post-college education. And the average Joe doesn’t have rich parents, which means you are going to be graduating with about 400-600k in debt and most likely land an average job which you end up anywhere from 120-150 k per year as an associate.

I remember your post. I'm surprised there weren't more replies, but I honestly think people just don't want to hear it. I know I didn't when i was a predent. Its hard to give up that dream because some stranger online said its not all that great. Everyone thinks they will be in the top 10%. I honestly think if i would have read a post like the one i did here, i would have at least took a closer look at the decision i was making. In the end I don't care what people do, I can't make a difference in the saturation numbers, but I think helping someone by sharing my experience so they can have more data to make their own decision is good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I remember your post. I'm surprised there weren't more replies, but I honestly think people just don't want to hear it. I know I didn't when i was a predent. Its hard to give up that dream because some stranger online said its not all that great. Everyone thinks they will be in the top 10%. I honestly think if i would have read a post like the one i did here, i would have at least took a closer look at the decision i was making. In the end I don't care what people do, I can't make a difference in the saturation numbers, but I think helping someone by sharing my experience so they can have more data to make their own decision is good.
You said it well. If anyone’s heart is set on pursuing dentistry, I wish them best luck. A lot of us, including myself, didn’t fully grasp the reality of dentistry until you go through dental school and start practicing. No amount of shadowing will tell you about the reality. Morally, I can’t tell predental students the grass is always green and it’s a wonderland being a dentist. Had I known this, would I have pursued dentistry? Maybe. Would I have looked another profession? Possibly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)

We are closer to the same page as you think man!

1) I think dentist lead overall with COA. I sure hope your right about that salary estimate, but I fear the challenges to the field will make that ALOT harder than you make it seem, especially covid, possible future socialized dental, corporate. Do you disagree? I would love to be terribly wrong about that tho. IMHO without research, i think IBR and PAYE programs is what's keeping this whole dental school house of cards from falling, without it so many people would barely be above water.
Don't get me wrong, I think current state of dental education needs, cost included, much improvement. That's partially why I left Big Academia.

2)I respectfully disagree. I'm not saying there won't be any successful dentist, but there will be more that struggle than in the past in my opinion. Source: google dentist in any city. Even small flippen cities like literally "flippen, Georgia" has plenty of dentist flippen georgia dentist (mostly a joke haha) Seriously tho, I think this upcoming recession will be an eye opener when even good* associate jobs are hard to find, again hope i'm terribly wrong.
So all those dentists in flippen, GA - how are they doing? Struggling? Would I open a startup in today's market? Hell no. My advice to my students and clients (www.dentist-consultant.com shameless plug), is not to open from scratch. Buy existing practices from retiring dentists. Most of what you buy is goodwill=patients. As for associate gigs, I dunno about GA, but in CA offices are swiping up all associates and staff they can get their hands on. Will it slow down after COVID, sure, for a few months. But my thinking is we will be to biz as mostly usual within 6 months tops.

3) Nope, dentist are health care providers who took an oath to do no harm. Its disgusting when there are colleagues doing wrong by the patient for their pockets, and i don't mean perio pockets. I could easily link article after article of dentist getting caught doing shady stuff. I know every profession has its bad actors but the nature of dentistry and its procedures makes things easy to abuse, like extra fillings, srp, crowns etc. I think it will get only get worse as the economy tightens up, perhaps boards and states will try to prevent it with more laws and documentation, which only makes it harder to practice. My points is, its pretty discouraging to do all the schooling and become a "dr" to have to deal with pressure to not be shady, either from your office boss or your monthly bills.
I have nothing else to say man. Sure, there are some bad apples out there. I used to consult for this guy who owns 6 offices in 2 states. After 3 months it was clear that the dude belongs behind bars (SF DA's office is after him now, so that sentiment might actually materialize). However, out of thousands of students and hundreds of DDS/DMD clients, I can tell you that those bad players make up 1% of the profession.

4) Insurance sucks - Yep, that's one thing all dentists can agree on.

5) No one knows the impact yet, could be nothing, could be drastic. The pandemic basically showed dentist are only barely essential as most offices shut down to like 10% function, pulling this number out of my butt, but still. I think you under estimate how little the state needs to change to make dentistry much harder to do. Look at Pennsylvania response (that they eventually pulled back) it was like you needed n95 mask, negative pressure rooms, etc Pennsylvania adjusts dental restrictions to allow emergency procedures lots of dentist make their money jumping room to room, one small change to the law and bam, good bye high production. Again hope I'm wrong.
Let's say that's what happens - we all need to reconfigure to N95, NP OR style practice, etc, etc. Here is what I would do: 1)With help of organized dentistry (CDA/ADA) pressure insurances into increasing reimbursement. 2) Certify my office as a medical facility, as I pretty much have to invest roughly the same amount of $$$ towards the required conversions, and then bill medical for facility fees (hello $50 gauze fees!). 3) Drop Delta Dental and go full FFS or keep Delta and bill out D9999 for facility fees if medical INS won't cover it. No other industry out there implements large scale upgrades without passing on the fee to clients. None.

6) Have you looked at reimbursements around the country from medicaid, most of them would be very hard to profit with. I doubt socialized dental would make us well off. As far as europe goes, I only have the info from forums and dentist that i have met from some of these countries, specifically spain, italy, ireland. Of course there are people who do well, but I bet the majority make much much less than even the average here. Just a quick google showed this, idk if this is accurate.

Do you know how insurance works? No one can make us take medicaid (maybe Bernie, but not gonna pass). Medicaid is just one OPTION that people can rely on. Same as HMO/PPO. There is always consumer choice. This isn't the good old USSR :)

Also Glassdoor is only slightly more accurate than crystal ball.



www.glassdoor.com

Salary: Dentist in London, UK | Glassdoor
21 Dentist Salaries in London, UK provided anonymously by employees. What salary does a Dentist earn in London?
www.glassdoor.com
www.glassdoor.com
ERI | Salary Expert - Dentist Salary Germany
The average dentist salary in Germany is 117.502 € or an equivalent hourly rate of 56 €. Salary estimates based on salary survey data collected directly from employers and anonymous employees in Germany
www.salaryexpert.com
www.salaryexpert.com


7) I don't think medicine and dentistry are super comparable with NP and dental therapist, medicine is so much bigger and more money is involved. Fillings and simple extractions are very simple to do, I don't think the average person would care who did it if its cheaper and did good. They might not be affecting dentist currently, but they will eventually get bigger and more widespread. Again I don't have hard facts, but if they do fillings and extraction, crowns?, I don't know how they wouldn't be competing with you if they were to ever end up down the road. I can see corporate offices lobbying for them since they will be cheaper and just have 1 dentist oversee them. Sure super dentist won't be as affected, but alot of us average dentist will.
Extractions? No dental therapist in their right mind would touch surgery - that is a malpractice lawyers wet dream. I have about a decade experience now, and I still get surprise teeth that won't come out as easily as I thought and require flaps.
As for crowns and fillings, it's a different market. It's simple, really. Look - there are levels of practices, from most expensive to cheapest: FFS/PPO, HMO, Medicare. Therapists would fall somewhere in the Medicare levels. Most private practitioners (what most would consider average) operate at FFS/PPO, with a few at HMO. I don't take HMO insurances, so I am not competing with HMO clinics for the same patients. It's apples and oranges. Dental therapists won't steal patients from me. Same way that a bunch of Dollar Stores won't steal customers from Trader Joe's or Whole Foods.


8) How can a small solo practice compete with large corps getting large discounts due to purchasing power and quantity.
By hiring me as a consultant! :rofl: When I say that most practices need to be sub 65%, I mean solo practitioners. For us multi-office folk, that number is more like sub-50%.

9) I was just pointing out its not an easy job, and if your not careful it will hurt you. A few of my dental professors were teaching because of injuries. Its easy to overlook the physical demand dentistry has, sure its not roofing but its also not a cozy office computer job either, even though we sit 90% of the time.
That cozy computer job is going to cost you a higher rate of carpal tunnel and eye sight issues than dentistry ever will. But I still encourage yoga, stretching, etc for neck/shoulder/back.

10) I know people in general are less considerate, but I bet "real" drs don't put up with half the crap we do. Dentist aren't seen at the same level as medical, in tv and movies we are usually the punchline haha. Look, I don't care about the Dr. title one bit, and i'm not a power hungry person so it never affects me personally, but I know some people do care about the dr title and I was pointing it out that it shouldn't be a motivator to be a dentist. I actually don't have Dr. or DDS on credit cards, mail, or any of that crap, besides one email i use for licensing.
Those who care enough about that crap shouldn't be in the profession. I had students like that....real cringe-worthy stuff...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Laundry I appreciate your responses and quite frankly your positive outlook. I suspect you are very successful, perhaps have been a dentist for while, maybe came out with much less debt then todays numbers. Thats awesome, but you most likely are not a good representation of the average dentist, and especially of ones graduating now and in the future. Dentistry is still a good option, I just think there will be more "losers"* in the future due to the debt levels and the challenges that are on the horizon.

*Losers as in their experience falls far short of their expectations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

I came out debt free, but I did a 7 year DSTP program - those always pay for your school. So that's 3 years of potentially no income while I finished grad school. Now, I couldn't stand it, so I secretly bought a practice a year after getting my DDS, w/ 2 more years to go in my PhD (some real Breaking Bad stuff there!), but let's say I didn't. That would mean that even at 150K/year, 3 years of deferred income = 150Kx3=450K of income loss, which is north of current average dental school debt.

Incidentally, my DSTP paid me a stipend of 25K/yr or so. I had a part-time job while in school, which brought in another 20K/yr. This allowed me to never take any loans. But 45K doesn't go far in San Francisco, so that's a few years of twin bed sleeping and ramen eating!

I am in my 8th year of practice, so barely out of the new-grad zone.

I am def in the upper level of success, but I think that anyone with a drive to business can achieve it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
You can’t compare lost income with amount of debt. Having 450k debt it means debt = monthly negative + interest being accrued to your principal. Anyone making 150k, that’s a gross income. After taxes, thats probably 90k. Considering your stipend and additional income and your taxes, that’s probably only 60k difference. So you calculate that difference for simplicity: 60k x 3 = 180k. Three additional schooling, debt free. I commend you for your success and debt free but you know your situation is very unlikely. Yes, anyone with a drive will succeed, but their starting point will be much different
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
When I was applying I mostly heard about the debt and saturation problem, which imo is true. But some of the other things that worry me aren't as talked about (but still important) so my intention just to give other an honest opinion of challenges I face/see. A lot of people that come back and are dental cheer leaders are very successful and want to share that (good on them) but its very important to know how much debt they had, where they practice, special skills etc. Someone who is on the far right of the bell curve sharing their experience doesn't really reflect the average middle of the curve person you know? Sure you can look up to them and make it a goal, but incase you end up average, Im your guy lol.

As for as biology degree, ya its pathetic as a bachelors. I think most people who do biology are thinking for grad or professional school, so your right its better to go on and get more education and at that point you really have only a handful of options. I think dentistry is becoming the worse option for a biology degree though when you account the debt and future challenges we face, that's obviously just my opinion.

If person after person come back and complain about the same thing (debt, saturation, etc) its usually because there is some truth to that....now if 1 person came back and said, dentistry sucks because everyday my patients take a literal crap in my office, ....ya that's easy to brush off as 1 guys experience.
I agree with a lot of your points. The student loan debt is absolutely ridiculous. Dental school is one of the worst. Most of the other healthcare professions deal with the same issue. Schools are still able to charge because they are guaranteed money. Government repayment programs make it so students once they graduate will never really truly feel the burden of those monthly payments.

One hope is That they get rid of the tax bomb (which has been seen as most likely to pass in terms of student loan reform and is supported by both parties).

Idk what to say about saturation. Everyone has their own opinion. Some say too many dentists, schools, students graduating every year. Others say population increasing, more women entering the field who usually work fewer hours. Less saturation the more rural you go. I’m not really sure who or what to believe, I do lean toward the idea people will need healthcare, and specifically dental care, no matter what.

And lastly, I’m not so sure my alternative, like many others, is even close to being as good as a DDS degree and job as a dentist.

You can’t compare lost income with amount of debt. Having 450k debt it means debt = monthly negative + interest being accrued to your principal. Anyone making 150k, that’s a gross income. After taxes, thats probably 90k. Considering your stipend and additional income and your taxes, that’s probably only 60k difference. So you calculate that difference for simplicity: 60k x 3 = 180k. Three additional schooling, debt free. I commend you for your success and debt free but you know your situation is very unlikely. Yes, anyone with a drive will succeed, but their starting point will be much different

Lol dang where you living where 60k/150k is going to taxes
 
Last edited:
I agree with a lot of your points. The student loan debt is absolutely ridiculous. Dental school is one of the worst. Most of the other healthcare professions deal with the same issue. Schools are still able to charge because they are guaranteed money. Government repayment programs make it so students once they graduate will never really truly feel the burden of those monthly payments.

One hope is That they get rid of the tax bomb (which has been seen as most likely to pass in terms of student loan reform and is supported by both parties).

Idk what to say about saturation. Everyone has their own opinion. Some say too many dentists, schools, students graduating every year. Others say population increasing, more women entering the field who usually work fewer hours. Less saturation the more rural you go. I’m not really sure who or what to believe, I do lean toward the idea people will need healthcare, and specifically dental care, no matter what.

And lastly, I’m not so sure my alternative, like many others, is even close to being as good as a DDS degree and job as a dentist.



Lol dang where you living where 60k/150k is going to taxes
If you are single tax filer, estimate is 30-40% on taxes. Maybe I overestimated but you get the idea for the calculation purposes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Can we also factor in another con of dentistry for the solo practice owners - Walmart dentistry? I saw a recent article about how Walmart will be doing dental procedures, obviously hiring qualified dentists, which will definitely grab all the attention from practice owners. This will effectively cut dentists salaries a healthy amount!
 
If you are single tax filer, estimate is 30-40% on taxes. Maybe I overestimated but you get the idea for the calculation purposes.
Eh 40% seems too high. Where I am it’s more like a 25% effective rate, even California seems to hover around 30% or a little over.
 
Can we also factor in another con of dentistry for the solo practice owners - Walmart dentistry? I saw a recent article about how Walmart will be doing dental procedures, obviously hiring qualified dentists, which will definitely grab all the attention from practice owners. This will effectively cut dentists salaries a healthy amount!

It will affect HMO practices, but won't really do much to PPO/FFS offices. Just like Dollar Stores don't affect sales of Whole Foods.
 
Eh 40% seems too high. Where I am it’s more like a 25% effective rate, even California seems to hover around 30% or a little over.

Depends on income level...once you reach 500K+, you're looking at total effective tax (CA+Fed) to be 40%+

I personally think it's insane and have always been a strong proponent of a fixed tax rate, but that's a whole new thread...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Depends on income level...once you reach 500K+, you're looking at total effective tax (CA+Fed) to be 40%+

I personally think it's insane and have always been a strong proponent of a fixed tax rate, but that's a whole new thread...
Hahaha definitely a whole new thread. But yea with that kind of after tax income paying back a 400k student loan looks way more difficult.
 
And for the opposing view, in the blue corner.... OK, a little preamble, mainly for the OP. Man, bro, bud (whatever general friendly addressing word you prefer) - some of my writing style can be aggressive. It's not my intention at all and I am very grateful that you took the time to shed some reality, as you see it, for others. I also sense that you are going thru some hard times with the COVID crap (who isn't!). I (we) are here for you and I am happy to chat on here and in private if you need to talk.

...OK here goes:

1) Dental school ain't cheap, that's for sure. You will get out w about 400K debt. HOWEVER: If you are willing to take a salaried job at 150K/year at an FQHC or community clinic, you can have up to 300K of that loan forgiven. In addition, cost of any education is stupidly expensive, regardless of the profession. With dentistry, however, you are basically guaranteed 250K salary after 2-3 years in the field, with no limit on earning potential.

2) Saturation, in my opinion, is a myth. This may shock someone, but hear me out. For one, more dentists are graduating, sure, but our population is increasing as well. In 2000, US population per census was 281 mil, whereas 2020 projected number is 336 mil (55 mil increase, or 20%). You can't expect the same number of dentists to treat 55 million more people, can you? I also happen to practice in the Bay Area, one of the most "saturated" places in the US. We see a ton of new patients and have no issues with competition. Most of my peers would agree with me.

3) Not going into a profession because certain members of that profession may have questionable morals is, well, questionable....

4) Insurance sucks...has been for decades now. This may be the only drawback of the profession, from the operations standpoint. There are ways to combat it though. For one, we are on the offensive against Delta Dental and I hope that this COVID crisis will serve as a catalyst for us to organize and finally create some change. It's the only insurance provider my offices are in-network with and if they carry on with their shenanigans, we will soon be fully insurance free!

5) Heard that a lot. Yes, there will be changes. All professionals evolve - don't forget, only 120 years ago we shared space with barbers....When the HIV crisis started, dentists cried the same song over PPE, such as gloves, and how their overheads would sky-rocket. Business practice models will restructure to accommodate for the changes. It will be fine.

6) Which European countries exactly? France, Germany, and UK have similar styles of practice as we do. Even Russia has them - my good friend is a prosthodontist in Moscow and is killing it. Sure, more community practices will pop up in the US. In CA, dental medicare (Denti-Cal) has been around for a couple of decades. Some people opt for it, most go for private. Same thing with medicine - we have had medicare for decades, but this didn't prevent private practices from operating.

7) NPs have been around for decades, yet I don't know of any MDs who complain about that. If you read what the scope of practice for therapists actually is, it doesn't affect regular practices anyway. Then there is common sense - ask yourself, who would you like to drill on your tooth? That's what most people would say, too.

8) Overhead - I lecture/consult on biz and let me tell you, the real issue is that dentists-owners just need basic business/management training. I promise you that 9/10 dentists can't explain the difference between fixed and variable expenses or how to setup a basic Dupont framework. Yet they act surprised when they can't efficiently run a multimillion dollar enterprise (aka average dental practice). If your overhead is more than 65%, you need help. Free whitening coupons? What is this, 1999?

9) I agree it's not the physically easiest job in the world. But come on, seriously. There are enough tougher jobs out there to make this a non-issue for us. Practice proper ergonomics, work out, get a weekly massage, take vacations, and you'll be just as likely to have a disability as any other desk job. As for higher risk of IDs, sure - we are doctors, we tend to work on sick people. Comes with the territory and relatively big bucks.

10) Sorry, but sounds like a chip on one's shoulder. This "jerk" putting away their headphones elected to entrust their health and well-being in your hands and is about to be the most unprotected and vulnerable as they have been in their life - letting you work in the MOUTH. It is terrifying for most people and everyone copes with it differently. What else do you want from them, flowers and a bow? As for rudeness, you can encounter it anywhere. Learn to deal with it and get over yourself. Sorry if this comes off harsh, I'm writing to you as a proverbial friend.

11) Yep - it's a commitment for life. It's a risk. As much of a risk as it is for someone to spend 4 years on a Humanities Degree. All career choices come with that risk. Sure it's a lot of potentially wasted investment of time, so choose wisely. But it's not the Mafia - you CAN leave the profession if you are that miserable.

So, it's not all doom and gloom. In fact, in my opinion, it's an AWESOME time to be a dentist, if you hear the calling. If not, then it's just a job and any "just job" just sucks.
If a DENTIST tells a pre-dental student dont touch a pot, its hot and will burn you. They will cuss you out, tell you you don't know what you are doing, and then proceed to touch it anyways. 99% will ignore the message, and 99% will learn the hard way. If you are not stroking their egos, you are insulting them.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
If a DENTIST tells a pre-dental student dont touch a pot, its hot and will burn you. They will cuss you out, tell you you don't know what you are doing, and then proceed to touch it anyways. 99% will ignore the message, and 99% will learn the hard way. If you are not stroking their egos, you are insulting them.

I would say i got out of my way to not stroke anyones..... ego.
 
Top