Knowing what specialty to go into before vs. after medical school

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Originally posted by Slickness
In the words of a song by some famous rappers "...Mo money, mo problems..."

That is, to me it's not about the money. As long as I can lead a decent life as a doctor I will. This is one of the reasons why I see FP as a good field even though they get paid the least.

However, I would say I don't like to change my mind. I'm the type of person that sets on a goal and sticks with it. I don't see how I would be "tearing up money" by not changing my mind in this case. I guess I wouldn't be making as much if that's what you mean.

FP docs do not get paid the least. They make better money than peds and sometimes general IM. I don't like changing my mind either. However, as you get into clinical rotation, you will see the real world. Keep an open mind about each specialty. So many people change their mind about their desired specialty. It's great to be idealistic but you also need to balance that with realism.

Slickness, using this SDN forum to help you make this decision in your life is good but it's getting unhealthy. You obviously have options that some medical students did not have. You just need to go sleep on this issue and decide for yourself.

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I'm struggling to not be abrasive here.
Believe it or not, I am writing this because I care about your decision.

You seem to be confusing the difference between staying on track with a goal and the integrity of purpose and vision that that entails and making a decision with permanent, lifelong repercussions.

You have many upperclassmen from the DO world telling you to go MD. You seem to insist on going DO despite the well-balanced and reasonable advice you have gotten on this thread. Why did you post if you didn't want to consider others' views seriously?

Several little tidbits and analogies to support:

I was a paramedic for five years, went to med school to become a EM doc. In my second year, I have already seriously considered AND courted EM, PRS, Oto and cards. I know enough to know I do not know what I will become.

I, too, respect and honor the formation and maintenance of dreams and goals no matter how painful and long-lasting the road to their actualization. Most on this thread have to have this mindset to remain motivated through the trials and tribulations of this path.

As a runner who specializes in runs up to and over 100 mile length, I offer this analogy.

I decide on my first day of running, I will become an ultrarunner and run a 100 mile race. I do not want to consider any other type of sporting event. I will sell my bike, my climbing rope and since I don't have to be a fast runner, I will cut off one leg. I know a prosthetic will work passably...

Sorry for the stupid analogy. I should really be studying for my test tomorrow.

As a very immature 32 year old (that's me), I am very happy that of all the bad decisions I made since I was 18 and on my own, none so far have precluded me from being whatever I want to be.

The competition in med school is incredible (Ever wonder where all the people who aced organic and did well on the MCAT are?). It is very hard to shine when everyone sparkles. Every little advantage or lack of disadvantage is so important.

Sorry to stand on my soap box. Please think very hard about this decision.

Check out the thread in FP as well on why Seattledoc left FP for another specialty...

Good luck
 
Well, I just found out I also was accepted to Drexel making that 2 MD acceptances for me. Man, now I feel even worse choosing a DO school over 2 MD schools. This sucks...:(
 
Originally posted by Slickness
Well, I just found out I also was accepted to Drexel making that 2 MD acceptances for me. Man, now I feel even worse choosing a DO school over 2 MD schools. This sucks...:(
Hell, who wants to go into interventional radiology, ENT or orthopedic surgery anyway?

Just keep your options open, little buddy. You may be surprised what floats your boat in medicine. You don't want to trade four years of med school for the rest of your career doing something which is not what you love.
 
slickness,

u feel EVEN worse choosing a DO school cause u have 2 md acceptences? what a dumb thing to say. go md, i will be a do, and i don't want u as my colleague.

no flames people, i am just sick of this dude's "decision saga"
 
You should have your fellowship picked out by your jr year of highschool if you are really dedicated to the field of medicine.
 
How many people have to tell you to keep your options open before you listen to them. Many MDs are saying go MD, not only that but many DOs are saying the same thing. How many people have to tell you not to touch the hot pot before you listen. I guess some people just have to touch the hot pot and get burned in order for them to learn.

I'm going to tell you that I went to DO school for a year, and my heart just wasn't in it. Yes I was happy knowing that I was going to become a physician, but having come from a research backgroung I had no faith in OMM at all. I hated this class and had nothing but disdain for it. During my first year I learned about all the problems that come w/going DO: have to take comlex to graduate but also have to take usmle for competitive res, harder to get competitive res if all things being equal, cant do away rotation at certain allo hospitals, and have to explain for the rest of my career what my degree is. I didn't have a choice then, but now I do lets just say I'm at an MD school now and much happier for it.
 
It's much more complicated than just choosing MD over DO. There are several subtleties and nuances that have to be looked at and thoroughly considered before making such a drastic decision in one's life.

For those people who are getting irritated, HAVE SOME COMPASSION. I just want to hear what every one has to say. Relax people.No need to get all uptight. Can't we all just get along...:)
 
I think everyone on this thread who has responded in an attempt to help you has been trying to tell you that there are no "subtleties or nuances".

Every single forum on this website has DOs asking, "can I go to, can I get into, will they consider me?"

Why would anyone do this to themselves IF they have a CHOICE?
 
Originally posted by DrDre'
Why would anyone do this to themselves IF they have a CHOICE?
I have thought this out alot and I'll tell you why it's a touch decision to me.

My goal is to become a primary care physician working in southern CA. COMP's match list shows that most of their students get successful matches in southern CA, more so than Drexel or Temple.

Also, if I go to COMP, I could be close to my family, friends, and the gf that I have now: my support system if you will.

So, by going to COMP, I would not have to change my life drastically as I would by choosing an out of state MD.

The negatives of going to COMP would be that I wouldn't have the prestige factor of an MD. Also, as many have stated, I would limit my opportunities in various specialties by going DO.

So what it boils down to is should I leave my life behind and go somewhere different from what I've known, for the prestige and chance that I could change my mind in what specialty I'm going to? THAT'S why it's a tough decision to me.

I know to some, it would be no big deal to just get up and move to some other part of the country. But to me it is. I'm trying to weigh all the positives and negatives and it's difficult.
 
Very mature reasoning on your last response. The empassioned cries from those on this thread are just to try to help you not make a mistake that COULD be hard to deal with later.

I do understand uprooting yourself. However, it is never as bad as it seems. If your GF is meant to be with you for a long time or "forever", a move should not matter.

It is nice to have a support network locally. But, with little free time, often this causes problems. I have friends that are stressed because their parents want them to visit all the time and they can't sacrifice the time.


Broadenimg your horizons is always a good experience.

I am glad you are looking at match lists. I think that your analysis is a little off, however. The reason there are lots of people matching into Southern Ca is likely for the same reason as yours. While, there may not be anyone from Drexel or where ever who wanted to go to SoCal for the years that you looked at. So, you may see an "artificially" skewed trend, if you don't consider this...

A rotation at one of those residency programs 4th year would likely help you as much or more than being an alum of COMP.

Sorry to be crabby. Honestly, just trying to encourage you to have all the options possible to you.

best,
 
Originally posted by Slickness
I have thought this out alot and I'll tell you why it's a touch decision to me.

My goal is to become a primary care physician working in southern CA. COMP's match list shows that most of their students get successful matches in southern CA, more so than Drexel or Temple.

Also, if I go to COMP, I could be close to my family, friends, and the gf that I have now: my support system if you will.

So, by going to COMP, I would not have to change my life drastically as I would by choosing an out of state MD.

The negatives of going to COMP would be that I wouldn't have the prestige factor of an MD. Also, as many have stated, I would limit my opportunities in various specialties by going DO.

So what it boils down to is should I leave my life behind and go somewhere different from what I've known, for the prestige and chance that I could change my mind in what specialty I'm going to? THAT'S why it's a tough decision to me.

I know to some, it would be no big deal to just get up and move to some other part of the country. But to me it is. I'm trying to weigh all the positives and negatives and it's difficult.


oh man I so understand your logic. I dropped all of my secondary apps when I got into the school by my family that would allow me to stay close to home.

I love the fact that I get to be a DO. I am the lone voice who will not tell you to choose Temple over COMP.

I was pretty set on Family when I started med school. Found out they didn't get to do deliveries in urban areas as an MS1. Switched to deciding to do OB.

MS2 I loved Micro. Decided to do Infectious disease. Did a subspecialty rotation at an HIV clinic this year (as an MS3) and LOVED it. was happy with my decision.

Did my hospital internal med rotation and HATED it. There is no way I will be able to do this for a residency.

I'm on peds right now and I have decided this will be my choice. Love it more than anything I've done so far. Love every single day and every single patient. I have surprised myself because I never thought I would choose this.

Always remember that you can GO BACK and do a fellowship after you do your primary care loan committment. Your options will always be open.

kristin
MS3
AZCOM
 
First of all most people that go to temple and drexel have family in the northeast and they want to stay there. That is probably the reason why many people do not go out to so. cal from those schools. However since you are from that area, you would state that in your personal statement and list that so cal address on your ERAS form (electronic application to residency programs). This way residency programs would know that you legitimately want to be in so cal cause you have family ties to that area. You will have just as good (and probably better) shot of landing any residency in so cal including fp from temple.


Four years of sacrifice by living in philly is small compared to the possibility that you made a wrong decision by going to the DO school and being shut out of competitive specialties, which are even HARDER to match into in so cal because of its desirable location. Best of luck to you in your decision as it will not be easy to be away from family. No one said life would be easy.
 
Originally posted by Voxel
First of all most people that go to temple and drexel have family in the northeast and they want to stay there. That is probably the reason why many people do not go out to so. cal from those schools. However since you are from that area, you would state that in your personal statement and list that so cal address on your ERAS form (electronic application to residency programs). This way residency programs would know that you legitimately want to be in so cal cause you have family ties to that area. You will have just as good (and probably better) shot of landing any residency in so cal including fp from temple.


Four years of sacrifice by living in philly is small compared to the possibility that you made a wrong decision by going to the DO school and being shut out of competitive specialties, which are even HARDER to match into in so cal because of its desirable location. Best of luck to you in your decision as it will not be easy to be away from family. No one said life would be easy.

I agree with the Vox. Don't limit yourself by going DO if you have the opportunity to go MD. There is a good chance you won't want to do FP once you get into the thick of things in your clinical years and that's why you should chose MD. Besides you won't have much free time at all your first two years so it really doesn't matter where you live. You are going to be indoors studying most of the time. Plus the AOA doesn't give a flying poo about its graduates.
 
Slickness, not to belittle your predicament, but you remind me of a 'Who Wants to Be a Millionaire' contestant about to get a 16,000 dollar question wrong after using all his life-lines...You've been given a lot of sound advice. Don't blow it!
 
There is another issue that is relevant in my decision and that is getting a job. For example, if I do go DO, get into a good residency and do well, will it be harder to find a job then if I had done everything the same but had that MD.

I figure that I won't have a problem finding a job if I did go DO but am not totally sure since I haven't been through it. I guess it would make sense that it would be easier to get a job as an MD especially here in CA but does anyone know about this?
 
In some areas, I believe DOs have no problems. Likely, these are areas near schools where there have been DOs around for a long time. My friend who graduated from COMP and works in ID regaled me with the still-present prejudice against DOs in CA. Seems like in a competitive job market, it might be a tie-breaker to NOT BE a DO?

Honestly, I think this is less of a deal than opportunities for residency placement. This, of course, brings us back to keeping your options open.
 
As a DO, doing Ortho Surg, I say it does not matter if you are a DO or an MD. For options to be open, just work hard and get good LORs, board scores, and grades.

Consider tuition. Most DO schools are private, and so tuition averages in the the $30K/year. Unless a wealthy family member is going to finance your eductaion, (doesn't sound like it if you are looking at PC loans) you would be wise to consider a good school that offers the same education for less. Also consider cost of living while in school.

We all have friends who knew they wanted something - then changed late in the game. Personal friend of mine worked hard, even though he knew he wanted FP. Then, after an ENT rotation, he decided to change. Lucky for him he had not closed doors along the way.

Do NOT get $100 - $200K in debt and not be able to do what you want IN THE END! Remember that you can always go back and get low interest PC loans AFTER you match in a residency. You can still benefit at that point, without having to commit now.

I've wanted to do ortho for as long as I can remember, and I got it. Most of my classmates chose something other than what they set out to do.

Good Luck, and be smart.
 
dobonedoc,

You should read your own post, about the dificulty of landing ortho before you say is doesn't matter if you go DO or MD. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82791

Originally posted by dobonedoc
A couple of things to consider when applying to Ortho as a DO. . .

Unlike other "competitive" programs that are difficult to match into, there are huge risks taken by DO applicants when they apply to ortho. Consider the fact that most DO Ortho programs are not "linked" with the internship year, and most DO ortho programs tend to fill the internship class with more interns interested in orhtopedics than there are residency positions to fill. This means that on day 1 of the internship, there will probably be 50 - 100% more interns (all very good on paper, hard workers, and well studied in orhto) than residency positions. The appliant must first apply to the internship, then hope to out perform (or outlast) the other orhto wanna-be's. Next, because the AOA match occurs prior to the AMA match, if you match with an AOA internship, you are taken out of the MD match. I guarantee if you are even remotely competitive for DO orthopeidics, you WILL match with at least one AOA internship that has an ortho residency to offer. I believe this is a huge factor in filling DO internships that otherwise would not fill. This is where life for the DO ortho "intern" becomes scary. If you are one of those who gets the internship, but does not match at your hospital's program, you can either apply to other orhto residency spots (but if you apply MD, you will have to repeat the internship, which is a very bitter thought and can cause funding problems ) or you can scramble for something in another specialty. When applying to other programs you are competing against other "in-house" interns who have worked their cans into the ground trying to out-do each other. If you cannot walk on water, you might as well save the $$, and vacation days (only get 10/year) instead of flying all over the upper midwest in hopes of getting that one spot. If you choose to pursue another field, consider that most of them are already filled with PGY1 people linked to the rest of the residency. Or if you go for something MD, remember that your internship will most likely not count. This really leaves finding an unfilled FP or IM DO residency to jump into.

Though it is true that there are options for DOs who want to do Ortho, every choice you make will close many other doors of opportunity. There is no way to put your "eggs" into more than "one basket." If you want ortho, you must put it all on the line, and go for it 100%, remembering that there is a real possibilty that after residency spots are finally given out, you may be left at the table, holding the check with nothing to show for it.

Also keep in mind that because programs are small (1-3 residents per year) DO ortho program directors are hesitiant to select interns who they do not know. This means you must use your elective time to go to audition rotations, and hope you look good for the 10 minutes of spotlight time you might get.

I got lucky. But I feel that I need a consult from GI now for my bleeding ulcer. I feel for those who gave it their all, and are now left out of the fun. Good Luck all you DOs who want to do Ortho!

Slickness if you think that was complex, just imagine if you wanted to match ortho in an allopathic hospital as a DO. Don't make it harder on yourself keep your options open. Like the other posters have said use up all your life lines for a 16K question or burn yourself by touching the hot pot. If you don't listen to other peoples advice I understand. My mom used to tell me don't mess w/skanks and if you do use a jimmy. I didn't listen and now my thang burns when I go to the bathroom.:eek:
 
WTPh,

Holy Cow! How quickly I forgot the Hell I was living just a short while ago. A sincere thanks for keeping the past fresh in my mind. It was an experience reading my own words now that I have a little more sleep under my belt.

DO or MD, work hard and keep doors open. Ortho is a unique monster in DO Training programs.

Though my classmates did very well in the match, WTPh is right, MD has more options in the end. Don't forget the cost. It will be a huge deal when repayment begins. Finally, and most important for this specific thread, do not take moves that will make changing your mind difficult in the future. Whether you end up going MD or DO, you'll have good options, Don't close doors from the beginning by making repayment difficult, or coasting throgh school because you don't think you want a competitive residency.
 
Sounds like you have gotten a lot of advice on the DO vs MD thing-

This is what I will tell you. I did not think that I was going to get into Med school with my MCAT of 28-Low and behold I got the invite the Thursday before Monday Classes started. It involved leaving my boyfriend of 3 years behind and taking a jump to live in a totally new place-WHICH I had grown up hearing not such great things about. Long story short-I am now very confident in my own abilities to live and be on my own, LOVE the city I am in, and married that boyfriend of mine. I'll be graduating in May with an MD and could not be happier. Next hurdle-to find a residency so my husband and I can stop the commuting madness.

I will tell you it was quite scary to watch my classmates many breakups and divorces through medical school-be honest with yourself about the relationship you are in. It is not fair to your spouse or family to compromise your future and potentially blame it on them.

Also started wanting to do EM, then in my third year wanted to do EVERY rotation I was on. Now applying to EM and looking at Peds EM fellowship.

Advice-Allow yourself to experience new things, life can lead you down some scary paths but it is what you make of it. Do not limit yourself to one "path."

Best of luck-
B
 
Thanks people for the advice. Although it may seem idiotic to some people, as of now I will travel the road least traveled.

That is, I will most likely go to COMP. I am still waiting on Loma Linda, UCI, USC, and UCLA to give me at least an interview, but if that doesn't happen, I will probably go to COMP.

I just believe that in my particular situation, the benefits outweigh the negatives. I don't believe it is worth it to spend 4 years of my life at a place I didn't really like, just for the prestige.

I'll still be a great doctor no matter what because I'm cool like that...:D
 
Originally posted by Slickness
Thanks people for the advice. Although it may seem idiotic to some people, as of now I will travel the road least traveled.

That is, I will most likely go to COMP. I am still waiting on Loma Linda, UCI, USC, and UCLA to give me at least an interview, but if that doesn't happen, I will probably go to COMP.

I just believe that in my particular situation, the benefits outweigh the negatives. I don't believe it is worth it to spend 4 years of my life at a place I didn't really like, just for the prestige.

I'll still be a great doctor no matter what because I'm cool like that...:D

bravo. I applaud your decision. I think that knowing your situation, being thoughtful about your choice, and then sticking to your guns is to be commended, especially after all the "peer pressure" !
 
It has nothing to do directly with prestige but with options. Good luck whatever you decide. Come back in 4 years and post what specialty you are trying to match.
 
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