Lab Animal Vets c/o 2017

Started by Nate1988
Veterinary Science Graduate Programs from U. of I.
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Nate1988

Nate1988

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Do any applicants from this round plan to go into LAM? I'm partially interested in whether there's a consensus about which (if any) schools do a decent job incorporating LAM into their curriculum/experience... I've gotten the feeling that you're pretty much on your own regardless and just need to spend your summers wisely.

I also hear a lot of conflicting opinions about whether or not prospects for LAM residencies and jobs are getting more competitive. Any vet students or DVMs care to chime in on that?
 
I don't know specifics and haven't looked intoit muself, but have heard UCDavis has good resources for lab animal (and primate) things.
 
I volunteered at a dept of comp med. The vet there was a upenn grad, who took a preference to hiring those from his alma mater/PA. I'm led to believe chances like these come down to luck, good references from respected internships/residencies, and quite possibly nepotism. Then again, this is just my one example and it could be different everywhere. It does sound tough, but it is comforting to know I may have a place of employment in the future haha!
 
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I'm currently a senior at UC Davis SVM planning on a career in lab animal medicine and have applied to residency programs and am waiting to hear back... :scared:

It's hard for me to comment on Davis being a good choice or not because the curriculum just went through a drastic overhaul. So while we *did* have some really fantastic lab animal electives, I'm not sure if they still exist in the new system. I will say that the lab animal med club is extremely active, with a lot of great activities: journal club, guest speakers, hands-on wetlabs (small mammal handling, primate physical exams and procedures, etc.). So there's definitely opportunity to get to know the lab animal vets and residents and get some experience. Otherwise yes, what you do with your summer breaks is very important! I did research my first summer and a lab animal internship my second summer.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions 🙂
 
It seems like Wazzu doesn't have much. We don't have a club and don't have a primate center. The office of the campus vet says they rarely take rotating students for externships.
 
At WesternU, everyone is required to complete a 2 week "Laboratory Animal Medicine & Research" rotation in their third year. Some of the locations available include University of Washington, University of California-San Francisco, UC-Berkley, Loma Linda University, City of Hope University, etc. In the 4th year, you can take a up to two 4 week rotations in LAM. Hope this helps 🙂.
 
Nate1988 said:
Do any applicants from this round plan to go into LAM? I'm partially interested in whether there's a consensus about which (if any) schools do a decent job incorporating LAM into their curriculum/experience... I've gotten the feeling that you're pretty much on your own regardless and just need to spend your summers wisely.

I also hear a lot of conflicting opinions about whether or not prospects for LAM residencies and jobs are getting more competitive. Any vet students or DVMs care to chime in on that?
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I'm going to be starting vet school at NCSU with the class of 2017, I'm debating between equine medicine and lab animal, but recently I've been thinking a lot about lab animal. Guess, I've got plenty of time.
 
Foxhunter said:
I'm going to be starting vet school at NCSU with the class of 2017, I'm debating between equine medicine and lab animal, but recently I've been thinking a lot about lab animal. Guess, I've got plenty of time.
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Already accepted?? I guess we need an official acceptance thread going!
 
Foxhunter said:
I'm going to be starting vet school at NCSU with the class of 2017, I'm debating between equine medicine and lab animal, but recently I've been thinking a lot about lab animal. Guess, I've got plenty of time.
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Fox, I don't mean to pry but I thought you were part of NCSU c/o of 2016?
 
chris (can't remember the rest of the username, I think it was chris0033 or something like that) doesn't post here much anymore, but I believe he was a lab animal resident.

We work pretty closely with our lab animal people here, and for what they tell me the job market is pretty heinous in their field (although no one knows what the next few years will hold).

In terms of externships and the like, networking is of the utmost importance, rather like zoo med. The more people you know the better. Don't be afraid to send off lots of emails, make lots of calls, etc. I worked for a summer at Wake Forest with their primate people, and they are super nice. If you are anywhere near the area, let me know and I can give you some contacts. A good friend of mine is actually doing a path residency/PhD there now as well.
 
I was an animal caretaker for the vivarium at my university. The lab vet went to Oklahoma and said it was a great program. He graduated sometime in the 80's though so I'm not sure this info may be of too much help haha.
 
WTF, thanks a lot for the input. From the few lab animal vets I've known, I've also gotten that impression (that networking is very important).
 
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Another LAM applicant here 😀 I have been working in industry for 9 years now and love it. I have also heard that the job market right now is not great... but that could change you never know
 
Third year LAM postdoc here... chiming in on the job market!

It was definitely hairy for new resident grads for the past couple of years - by and large, most of the job postings on CompMed and in AALAS listings were either for techs/care staff or for senior-level staff/directors. There were not a lot of entry-level lab animal vet jobs.

Luckily, though, that seems to be changing. There are entry-level jobs trickling in as the economy gains strength again, although it is nothing like the "high demand" job search I was told of when I was still in vet school. Our director is pretty good about making phone calls to places he knows his postdocs are applying, so at least I have that going for me.

I am not personally applying for jobs yet, though - I am going to finish my PhD first.

Welcome and good luck to all of you!
 
SilverSpyderGT said:
Third year LAM postdoc here... chiming in on the job market!

It was definitely hairy for new resident grads for the past couple of years - by and large, most of the job postings on CompMed and in AALAS listings were either for techs/care staff or for senior-level staff/directors. There were not a lot of entry-level lab animal vet jobs.

Luckily, though, that seems to be changing. There are entry-level jobs trickling in as the economy gains strength again, although it is nothing like the "high demand" job search I was told of when I was still in vet school. Our director is pretty good about making phone calls to places he knows his postdocs are applying, so at least I have that going for me.

I am not personally applying for jobs yet, though - I am going to finish my PhD first.

Welcome and good luck to all of you!
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Thanks so much SilverSpyder. We just got an email today about a job opening at Pfizer Animal Health that seemed lab animal geared.
 
To everyone: I have been looking into lab animal medicine. What types of combined residency programs (PhD or MS) are there? What are best lab animal veterinary schools in the US? Thank you for your help.
 
I'm also considering lab animal medicine. I'm currently in a PhD program but it doesn't offer me the kind of hands-on animal experience that I want, so I'm debating leaving to go to vet school. I've heard that in lab animal med, more advanced degrees- PhD, MPH, etc.- help a lot, but personally...getting a PhD is so much more emotionally exhausting than I anticipated, and I'm not sure the potential benefit when looking for jobs in 4+ years is worth it for me. I have immense respect for people who do it.

My research (aka Googling) indicated that UPenn, Davis, and NC State are all good for lab animal medicine. As for the job market being terrible...are there areas of vet med where it isn't terrible? 🙄 I think the prospects are decent for large animal vets who will work in the food animal industry, but other than that, I think most people are going to struggle to find jobs. But getting into vet school is of course a ridiculous struggle, so I think we're all up to the challenge. 😀
 
I know Tufts has a MSLAM. They were really talking it up when I went there for an interview.
 
Lightinthedark said:
To everyone: I have been looking into lab animal medicine. What types of combined residency programs (PhD or MS) are there? What are best lab animal veterinary schools in the US? Thank you for your help.
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I've met lab animal residents from all over the place. Ultimately you're just convincing admissions committees in the residencies to take you, and from what I've seen they care more about how you did in school (i.e. GPA and class rank) and what you did with your summers (lab animal externships, research, etc.) and of course who you know,rather than where you went to school. For what it's worth, four of the most phenomenal lab animal vets I've known (and make no mistake, there's a big difference between a bad lab animal vet and a good one) have come from Purdue, Ohio State, CSU, and UF.

mlk45 said:
I've heard that in lab animal med, more advanced degrees- PhD, MPH, etc.- help a lot
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I can understand that an MS beforehand may help out because as a lab animal vet it helps to be familiar with research (since you do conduct your own, and obviously it's good to have an idea what's being done to an animal if you're an ACUC member passing a protocol, etc.), but it's not my experiene that a PhD would help you be a better lab animal vet -- they're just too much work and cover a single topic too specifically (opposed to the many areas you would be forced to deal with during the residency).

Some lab animal vets I've worked with do go into the "post-doc" residency program to get a PhD, but has usually been because they're less interested in being clinicians and more interested in eventually having their own lab, etc.

Everyone will tell you something different. Just my 2 cents!
 
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anotherbusybee said:
Wait, why would you get a Masters or PhD?

If you want to do lab med, wouldn't you try to aim for a DACLAM?
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You can get a masters or PhD and still complete a residency and become ACLAM certified...

I'll give my thoughts, since I've been intent on a career as a lab animal vet and will be starting a residency this July 🙂soexcited🙂. I've talked to a lot of people about whether or not it's necessary to get a PhD, and the overwhelming response is "no". If you want to primarily do research, then of course you'd go that route. But if you, like me, want to be a clinical lab animal vet, it's completely not necessary. And while I heard from one person that it can help later if you want to eventually move into director type positions, everyone else has said that's not the case. And know I know a lot of facility and program directors that do not have a PhD.

As for what residency programs look for, it's primarily your interest in and dedication to the field. I had several interviews, and they all really liked that I've been extremely dedicated to the field since day one (research first summer, clinical lab animal internship second summer, president of lab animal medicine club for 3 years, etc.). Your letters of recommendation are also extremely important, start making those relationships now! And yeah, grades matter, but not as much as the other stuff. My grades are good but not fantastic and like a said, I had several residency interviews (and was offered 3 positions).

It doesn't matter what vet school you go to, at all. Most don't even offer any lab animal med classes, and if they do, it's only a few. Likewise, I've never heard of a vet school that offers tracking in lab animal med. So go to vet school wherever you want, and focus on being proactive to be involved in lab animal med while there and during breaks.

If anyone else wants to discuss this, feel free to PM me 😀
 
@jjohnston, do you mind going into detail about what a typical day was for you during your lab animal med internships? what sort of projects were you working on? my understanding of what LAM entails is pretty thin...I know of a few specific examples at my current research institution but I'm not sure what the more general job description is. one of my friends is designing a medical device for the GI tract and it's being tested on pigs first- it's his device and his project, but he has vets actually implanting the thing and monitoring the pig post-op. there are also vets that work for the university's division of lab animal medicine- oversee the vet techs who do the daily check-ups on the animals and help researchers draft protocols for approval. these are the only specific job duties I know about- I'd love to hear more. 🙂
 
jjohnston said:
Y
I'll give my thoughts, since I've been intent on a career as a lab animal vet and will be starting a residency this July 🙂soexcited🙂. I've talked to a lot of people about whether or not it's necessary to get a PhD, and the overwhelming response is "no". If you want to primarily do research, then of course you'd go that route. But if you, like me, want to be a clinical lab animal vet, it's completely not necessary. And while I heard from one person that it can help later if you want to eventually move into director type positions, everyone else has said that's not the case. And know I know a lot of facility and program directors that do not have a PhD.
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Maybe I should have done a different specialty :laugh:
 
mlk45 said:
@jjohnston, do you mind going into detail about what a typical day was for you during your lab animal med internships? what sort of projects were you working on? my understanding of what LAM entails is pretty thin...I know of a few specific examples at my current research institution but I'm not sure what the more general job description is. one of my friends is designing a medical device for the GI tract and it's being tested on pigs first- it's his device and his project, but he has vets actually implanting the thing and monitoring the pig post-op. there are also vets that work for the university's division of lab animal medicine- oversee the vet techs who do the daily check-ups on the animals and help researchers draft protocols for approval. these are the only specific job duties I know about- I'd love to hear more. 🙂
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Hey mlk, I always enjoy talking to people about what lab animal med is all about! Especially since a lot of people don't really know. First, I suggest checking out the ASLAP (aslap.org) and ACLAM (aclam.org) websites. They are great resources for discovering lab animal med and what it's all about.

You have described examples of what most lab animal veterinarians do. I'm interested in being a clinical veterinarian, so my job will be the health and well being of animals used in research. This includes rounds, health checks, diagnostics, treatment plans, euthanasia if necessary, ensuring protocols and regulations regarding welfare are being followed, etc. Another job of the lab animal veterinarian is research support. They are often called upon by PIs who don't know anything about vet med to design protocols, develop anesthesia/analgesia and post-op plans, etc. And as you mentioned, they are occasionally asked to actually perform the procedure, but that varies greatly and is highly dependent on the PI and the procedure. Lastly, training is also an important part of the job. This includes training research personnel (lab animal handling and sampling techniques, administering medications, post-op monitoring, etc.), lab animal veterinary technicians, and other support staff. Personally, I also feel that public outreach and education is an essential role of a lab animal veterinarian, but that's not really required of the job and not everyone agrees with me.

As far as my clinical internship, it was really amazing because every day was different! That's one of the things I really love about lab animal med 🙂 I mostly worked with the technicians, and went with them to see health cases. This included everything from a mouse with malocclusion that needed its teeth trimmed to a pig having post-operative complications. I helped a lot with rabbit surgical preparation, including IV catheter placement, endotracheal intubation, and subsequent anesthesia monitoring. I also had a lot of fun with the animals - I helped with the daily rabbit food enrichment (tons of fresh greens every day, always a variety - treated better than a lot of pet rabbits!), the pig playtime (wonderful, playful creatures!), and the daily dog exercise time (running up and down a room with bouncy beagles - pretty great). It was just further confirmation that this is absolutely what I want to do with my DVM. I recommend everyone to get some lab animal experience, you never know, you might fall in love with it. I never knew until I decided to gain some volunteer experience to pad my vet school app!
 
Jjohnson, I currently live in a large college town, and I would like to gain some experience in lab animal medicine this summer. Do have any suggestions on how to obtain this type of experience?
 
Lightinthedark said:
Jjohnson, I currently live in a large college town, and I would like to gain some experience in lab animal medicine this summer. Do have any suggestions on how to obtain this type of experience?
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Pretty much every university has research that occurs on campus. In which case, they have a department that takes care of those animals. Try finding that department and contact someone there. For example, I just Googled "UC Davis lab animal medicine" and our Center for Lab Animal Science was the first hit. On that page there's contact information. I'm sure a similar search for your school will turn up similar results. Just let them know who you are, that you are planning on applying to vet school, that you're interested in gaining experience in lab animal medicine, and ask if they take volunteers or interns. You could also ask your professors, some of them may do research but if they don't, they probably know another faculty member who does. Ask if they need help in the lab, or if they can get you in contact with a lab animal veterinarian. Be persistent in seeking out opportunities! Good luck! 🙂
 
Bumping this thread because I narrowed down my choices a bit between Texas A&M and WCVM (in Canada).

Assuming I eventually wanted to pursue a residency in lab animal medicine, how important is it to pick a school with a strong lab animal program? I feel like Texas A&M has more lab animal opportunities. However, WCVM is significantly cheaper for me.

During undergrad, I feel like I have gotten most of my significant experiences over the summers outside of Davis. Thus, it seemed like going to Davis (a school with a lots of vet opportunities) wasn't critical in helping me prepare for vet school admissions (though it was definitely helpful). Is the same true for vet school, or does WHERE you go matter much more?

I've looked into a few LAM opportunities, and it looks like I would probably be able to do some cool fellowships outside of WCVM during the summer, as well as get some research in over the school year. Question is, is that enough to make me competitive for a residency when I graduate? Or would I be missing out on some critical opportunities by choosing WCVM?

I understand that there's no clear answer to something like this, but would you say that it would be "doable" to go to a school that did not have a strong department in your interest, or "generally not recommended"?

BTW, no I'm not being unethical by confirming to 2 schools. WCVM is on a different schedule, and I still have 2 weeks until my interview there.
 
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I am also hoping to break into the LAM field and am starting at the U of MN this fall. I don't think they have a particularly strong LAM program (or resources or anything really focused on it) but one of my former coworkers went to school there and is now in a residency program in Oregon for it. So I guess I know it is doable from schools that don't offer much focus on it. I think a lot of it is how you spend your summers and what you manage to dig up for yourself as far as opportunities go.
 
kcoughli said:
I am also hoping to break into the LAM field and am starting at the U of MN this fall. I don't think they have a particularly strong LAM program (or resources or anything really focused on it) but one of my former coworkers went to school there and is now in a residency program in Oregon for it. So I guess I know it is doable from schools that don't offer much focus on it. I think a lot of it is how you spend your summers and what you manage to dig up for yourself as far as opportunities go.
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Awesome. That's what I want to hear. Thanks! 😀
 
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