Lake Erie Bradenton PBL

[AlberttheGator]

Anybody that currently attends Lake Erie Bradenton have any opinions on the PBL program down there want to share?

How well does it prepare you for the boards?

Does the curriculum cover everything that a traditional lecture system would?

Just trying to get a sense at what that program is all about since I live in Tampa and would like to go to DO school.

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[scpod]

Anybody that currently attends Lake Erie Bradenton have any opinions on the PBL program down there want to share?

How well does it prepare you for the boards?

Does the curriculum cover everything that a traditional lecture system would?

Just trying to get a sense at what that program is all about since I live in Tampa and would like to go to DO school.

The best thing for you to do, since you are sooo close, is to visit the school yourself. Yet, I would wait until after August because it is awfully busy with all the preparations for the Class of 2010 going on.

Check out 2010's class website (you can get to it from my sig) for information from the class to be, as well as some excellent advice from older classes. There are a lot of things great about PBL, but you have to know that you spend a whole lot of time studying on your own. If you are not self-motivated, then PBL is NOT for you. What you do learn, though, is the most important aspects of the basic sciences. For instance, as we were asked in interview, "How many times do you think that you will discuss the Kreb's Cycle with your patients in a typical day? ...a week? ...a year? If you aren't going to be using it, then why should you be studying it? Yes, they have FREE board review for everybody, since it is probably going to be a part of step one, and you get to cover the Kreb's Cycle then, but wouldn't you rather really spend more of your time studying the "clinically relevant" issues in the basic medical sciences? That is what you will be doing in PBL.

Plus, from the very first day of PBL, you will be learning to do H&P's. You'll be asking the same questions and ordering the same labs and getting the same answers that you will be doing in your third and fourth years. At the end of year one, you'll already know how to interpret a lot of the labs that you'll be ordering in year three because you will have already had to do it. However, your focus with PBL is not only to "diagnose" a particular case, you must also develop learning issues (relevant medical science issues...i.e. Pharmacology and Physiology and Pathology, etc.) that will enable you to understand the problem. You WILL be on your own a LOT!!! If you can't handle that, then PBL is NOT for you. If you can, then PBL may be a great option.

One of the things that tends to screw up the MCAT/USMLE correlations is that PBL students with a <30 MCAT tend to do much better than their lecture counterparts. In schools that offer both pathways, PBL students tend to perform better in many cases. However, you will be doing a LOT OF STUDY BY YOURSELF!!!! If you cannot do that, then PBL is NOT FOR YOU.

 

[GregsAnatomy]

That's quite an endorsement coming from someone who hasn't even started the program yet....

 

[sddoc]

I was a member of the class of 2006 in Erie, and also a PBL student, so I think I can speak with at least a little confidence on the subject. Honestly, I can't imagine having completed medical school any other way. Each case study that you do provides an opportunity to advance both your clinical and your basic science knowledge.

However, scpod is absolutely right. If you aren't good at time management or self directed learning, you will have difficulty with the PBL set up. If you think that this is an easy way of completing medical school, you will be disappointed. One of the major differences between lecture pathway and PBL is that, in lecture, the professors tend to highlight the specific objectives that they will focus on in their exams. In PBL, there are NO objectives. Everything in the chapters you read is fair game for exams. In other words, you need to decide what is and is not important. I think you tend to learn more, because you never know what questions will pop up on an exam.

You asked if it covers all of what traditional lecture pathways cover. The answer is that PBL covers everything at least twice. There are approximately 14 required books for PBL students. You will read them all cover to cover twice. (or the Board review series equivalent if you're like me! )

There were 40 members of my PBL class in Erie. From what I understand, all but one of us passed boards on the first try. 39 of us stood at graduation this year, so I think that the program prepares you well for Comlex. More importantly, I know that it prepares you well for clinical rotations. I had more positive comments on my evals than I could have imagined. Essentially, you will get out of PBL exactly what you put into it.

All this being said, there is nothing like studying in your pajamas instead of dress code! If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me. Good luck!

 

[AlberttheGator]

Thanks for your input. I have graduated from a masters program at drexel and am applying right now. So my basic science knowledge level is more than what a regular straight out of college student traditional applicant is.

I feel I am very independent in my studying and this will be the second time around for seeing things like neuroscience, physiology, histology, immunology, genetics, and third time around for biochem.

Just trying to get a feel for what its like.

Also how big is the class usually? And do you know if anybody in your classes took the USMLE Step I? And if they did were they prepared for it?

Thanks a bunch. Good luck with your career.

 

[sddoc]

I believe that they currently accept around 150 in Bradenton. However, you are placed in small groups each semester. Our groups in Erie were composed of 8 students and one faculty member. We reviewed cases and selected chapters that we were responsible for knowing. There were 5 groups total, and all of the groups selected chapters for each exam. (Is it clear as mud yet?)

I believe that several people took the USMLE, but I have no idea how they did. You don't always see your classmates a lot after you finish second year!

 

[lynx]

Speaking from LECOM2008 (Bradenton) experience - I don't know how well PBL prepared us for the boards - none of will get any results till sometime in late August- September. I would pick our brains again regarding this issue at that time))

 

[kota315]

Speaking from LECOM2008 (Bradenton) experience - I don't know how well PBL prepared us for the boards - none of will get any results till sometime in late August- September. I would pick our brains again regarding this issue at that time))

Speaking as a member of the 09'ers, I feel as though I am headed in the right direction as far as clinical prep goes... I spent the summer in my old role as an ER RN and because it is at a teaching hospital, I found myself hanging with the interns, residents, and attendings... I am learning the right stuff... clinically anyway...

 

[Boner]

Speaking from LECOM2008 (Bradenton) experience - I don't know how well PBL prepared us for the boards - none of will get any results till sometime in late August- September. I would pick our brains again regarding this issue at that time))

Will the Admissions Office know the classwide COMLEX average/pass rate by the start of interview season, or do they not receive this info until much later?

 

[Going2MakeIt]

I just wanted to see if anyone had an update regarding the pass rate since it is almost mid october now.

 

[(nicedream)]

There are students that failed and students that did extremely well. It's clear from the spectrum that the program offers everything needed to succeed, but you must be the right kind of student for it. As mentioned above, self-directed. If you, like me, prefer learning by sitting with a book rather than in a classroom listening to someone, then it's great. More than anything, it does an outstanding job of preparing us for clinical rotations. The evaluations I've gotten, both written and informally to my face, are really glowing, and I've heard the same about many classmates. I believe there was a segment of students in our class, maybe partly as a product of us being the first class, that wasn't right for the PBL program. Some need more guidance in their learning. I got a 648 on COMLEX and 238 on USMLE, and I know at least a handful did as well or better.

 

[DragonWell]

I just wanted to see if anyone had an update regarding the pass rate since it is almost mid october now.

Wow, congrats nicedream!

According to Dr. Kreuger, the pass rate was ~85%. Not great maybe, but not bad either considering this is the first class of a new school. Based on my limited experience as a first year, I couldn't agree more with nicedream's comments above that some people seem to fit better with PBL than others. There are already people in our class bitching about PBL - "it's like we have to teach ourselves medicine". If you're down with that program then PBL will work for you. If you can't imagine learning without lectures, you may want to think twice.

 

[FizbanZymogen]

I got a 648 on COMLEX and 238 on USMLE, and I know at least a handful did as well or better.

Wow!! Great job on both tests (especially that USMLE score). Hopefully I can achieve these kind of numbers!

 

[awaiting]

FYI: the national passing rate for the COMLEX I this past year was 89.5%.

Now compare the LECOM-Bradenton's inaugural class pass rate to that of the national stat. Definitely not bad for the inaugural class.

 

[scpod]

FYI: the national passing rate for the COMLEX I this past year was 89.5%.

Now compare the LECOM-Bradenton's inaugural class pass rate to that of the national stat. Definitely not bad for the inaugural class.

Plus, you probably realize that the first class wasn't made up of the greatest students around. Quite a few of them went there because it was new and they didn't get in anywhere else. Many were not cut out for the PBL curriclum because they don't have a lot of self-motivation to study on their own. 13 of those students are in Bradenton now remediating instead of on rotations. They even bribed some Erie applicants who didn't get into Erie's PBL program, but told them they would be accepted if they went to Florida. Sure, there were a few who picked it just because it was the west coast of Florida and the location was great. The last two classes, however, have been made up of progressively better students. Each class has had better test averages than the preceding one. I wouldn't be surprised to see that COMLEX pass rate go up quite a bit in the next few years.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

how often do you have to be on campus?

 

[scpod]

how often do you have to be on campus?

After the first 11 weeks, you are on campus for 2 hours on M,W, Th, and F. Tuesday is longer. The 2nd years have pretty much the same on M, W, and F. But Tuesday is usually 4 hours long and Thursday can last nearly all day.

 

[smhogans]

Have an upcoming interview @ LECOM-Bradenton...

How is anatomy given @ LECOM-Bradenton?
Are there any classes given as lecture based....such as histology, anatomy, embryology? etc etc?

How are the tests given for PBL?

How do you know that you have spent enough time preparing for each case?

 

[Tadgie]

Have an upcoming interview @ LECOM-Bradenton...

How is anatomy given @ LECOM-Bradenton?
Are there any classes given as lecture based....such as histology, anatomy, embryology? etc etc?

How are the tests given for PBL?

How do you know that you have spent enough time preparing for each case?

Anatomy (along with histo, embryo, and neuro) is given as a 10 week lecture at the beginning of your schooling. Other supplemental classes, like ethics, jurisprudence, and geriatrics are given as lectures spread out over a number of weeks, as well as the more in depth behavioral course.

Tests in PBL are questions written by the professors at the school based on the subjects you have studied. After every case, you turn in a list of the info that you read that was pertinent to the case, and that's what the questions are based on. And you really only know if you've studied enough once you see your test compared to the key. It stinks at first, but after a couple tests you get a feel for what you have to study. It's the trials and tribulations of PBL. Take it or leave it.
I'll take it myself.

 

[smohamma]

Hi All,
I just interviewed there last week and I loved the place. I wanted to know more about how they help prepare you for the boards - I hear they will have kaplan teaching - what is that like?

 

[CatsandCradles]

After the first 11 weeks, you are on campus for 2 hours on M,W, Th, and F. Tuesday is longer. The 2nd years have pretty much the same on M, W, and F. But Tuesday is usually 4 hours long and Thursday can last nearly all day.

Just two hours a day??

Wow. I'm a little bit taken back by that. I really don't know what to say.

What about anatomy labs? Histology labs? etc.

 

[scpod]

Just two hours a day??

Wow. I'm a little bit taken back by that. I really don't know what to say.

What about anatomy labs? Histology labs? etc.

You are finished with Anatomy/Histology/Embryology by the eleventh week of school. They took these courses (as well as the professors) from USF and turned their 20 week courses into a 10 week one. The remainder of the first semester is PBL meetings for 2 hours on M, W, and F. OMM lecture, Clinical Exam lecture, and Clinical Exam lab are on Tuesday. OMM lab is on Thursday. That changes a little later because you take some "mini courses" on T and TH, but M,W, and F is pretty much just two hours. After that, you are free to study whenever and wherever you want.

 

[CatsandCradles]

You are finished with Anatomy/Histology/Embryology by the eleventh week of school. They took these courses (as well as the professors) from USF and turned their 20 week courses into a 10 week one. The remainder of the first semester is PBL meetings for 2 hours on M, W, and F. OMM lecture, Clinical Exam lecture, and Clinical Exam lab are on Tuesday. OMM lab is on Thursday. That changes a little later because you take some "mini courses" on T and TH, but M,W, and F is pretty much just two hours. After that, you are free to study whenever and wherever you want.

I guess you guys have lotsa of time to go over material and study then. More time to sleep too!!

I love cat naps you know!!!

 

[scpod]

I guess you guys have lotsa of time to go over material and study then. More time to sleep too!!

I love cat naps you know!!!

In all honesty, just because Anatomy/Histology/Embryology classes are over, it doesn't really mean that we are finished with it. We are advised to pick these as learning issues for PBL in the beginning. For instance, we just had a PBL test, and because of the cases that we had, my group picked Anatomy of the heart, lungs and brachial plexus; embryology of the heart, lungs and gut; and histology of the respiratory system in addition to the biochem, genetics, and physiology topics. They were very pertinent to the cases we covered. In the future, we may not pick to be tested on those again, but it is recommended that we brush up on the anatomy/embryo/histo of a particular system each time we have a case involving them.

And...yes we do have plenty of time (after studying) to take cat naps!

 

[Tadgie]

Yeah, cat naps rule. Best.....study breaks......ever.

 

[mickdogg81]

Plus, you probably realize that the first class wasn't made up of the greatest students around. Quite a few of them went there because it was new and they didn't get in anywhere else. Many were not cut out for the PBL curriclum because they don't have a lot of self-motivation to study on their own. 13 of those students are in Bradenton now remediating instead of on rotations. They even bribed some Erie applicants who didn't get into Erie's PBL program, but told them they would be accepted if they went to Florida. Sure, there were a few who picked it just because it was the west coast of Florida and the location was great. The last two classes, however, have been made up of progressively better students. Each class has had better test averages than the preceding one. I wouldn't be surprised to see that COMLEX pass rate go up quite a bit in the next few years.

As a LECOM-B third year, thats a pretty bold statement above....I'm actually pretty impressed with how we have handled the boatload of "bumps" in the road while paving the way for you first and second years. Granted we have a few of those whom didn't get in other places, you sure seem to know a lot more than I do about my own class...the fact that most of us "didn't get in other places" and are "not decent students" and bribing students to come to florida.....might wanna check your sources.
I nailed my boards as did nicedream and many other kids I know of in our class...simply implying that our class is inferior compared to the others is misleading.....oh, and I always accept pm's

 

[scpod]

...might wanna check your sources...

Try Dr. Krueger or Liuzzi.

I nailed my boards as did nicedream and many other kids I know of in our class...simply implying that our class is inferior compared to the others is misleading.....oh, and I always accept pm's

Congratulations on doing well...but you know as well as I do that the "higher ups" were dissatisfied with the overall performance of your class. It's not a question of being inferior, but the grades so far do show an improvement over the early grades of the past two years. Those are facts. The faculty and staff also anticipate an improvement in the next two classes on board scores. Whether or not that happens remains to be seen.

 

[mickdogg81]

Try Dr. Krueger or Liuzzi.

Oh yeah, Dr. Krueger is a GREAT source....Liuzzi was pessimistic from the get-go..he never even gave a few of the kids a chance




Congratulations on doing well...but you know as well as I do that the "higher ups" were dissatisfied with the overall performance of your class. It's not a question of being inferior, but the grades so far do show an improvement over the early grades of the past two years. Those are facts. The faculty and staff also anticipate an improvement in the next two classes on board scores. Whether or not that happens remains to be seen.

You obviously have no idea what this school was like prior to you getting here. Things were much more difficult to anticipate. I.e., your class can get a sense of input from the preceeding class, something we didn't have. How and what to study, how to choose LI's, what the exam structure was like, where are the good/bad rotations gonna be, how do I set up my rotations. Now that you at least have a clue about what to expect, sure the last two classes may have had better grades, but largely from better preparation secondary to being much more informed, and better organization on LECOM's part. I believe that can help explain your "facts," and stating that we had a "dissatisfying class" coming from the "higher ups" is merely opinion my friend.....we don't have any "higher ups" at our school.....you should really watch who and what you listen to at LECOM-B, but you will find this out on your own..believe me

 

[scpod]

...stating that we had a "dissatisfying class" coming from the "higher ups" is merely opinion my friend.....we don't have any "higher ups" at our school.....you should really watch who and what you listen to at LECOM-B, but you will find this out on your own..believe me

I never said you "had a 'dissatisfying class'". Look at my quote. I said, "the 'higher ups' were dissatisfied with the overall performance of your class. As for "opinion"...that's exactly the words from Dr. Krueger's mouth after spending a full day with Dr. John and Dr. Sylvia. It doesn't get any more "higher up" than that. Now...the relevant point is that I personally think the class as a whole did pretty well. Even Dr. George thought they did pretty well because those who failed didn't miss by much. But, like everyone else, he was still dissatisfied because they were expecting something like a 99% pass rate and your class didn't produce that. Personally, I think the expectations were a little too high.

You can come up with any reasons that you want for the differences between our classes, but all of those are purely opinions. You can refuse to believe that the quality of the students overall has increased, but I believe it has. I don't think that's the only reason for improved grades, but I do believe it is a factor. The same thing is happening this year (as happens when any new school opens). People with subpar MCATs and GPAs are flocking to apply to the new schools because they think that's their best chance. In many cases they are right. Obviously, there will be good applicants too, but let's face it, for the most part the very best students typically look for older, more established schools. They rarely want to be a part of the first class because everyone knows that there will be loads of turmoil and uncertainty in the beginning.

Yes, your class was a big guinea pig and problably had to work harder than many of the later classes will simply due to that. But, you made the choice to go there and ultimately we are all responsible for our own medical education. The administration is doing its best to help us, though. They have grilled every student who's remediating on why they had problems. My class will certainly benefit from that and our path will be a little easier than yours. I got accepted to other programs but chose this one because I felt like it was the best fit for me. It's far from perfect, but then no school could ever be perfect in all respects.

 

[smohamma]

So to those who have taken the boards- was PBL a good way of preparing for the basic sciences. I think it would be a great way for preparing for the clinical portion, but i am hesitant about if it is the best way to prepare for the basic science portion. I am just a lil worried. I really like the format for learning - but will it be enuff to get the numbers on the COMLEX? ahhhh so much to think about...

 

[(nicedream)]

So to those who have taken the boards- was PBL a good way of preparing for the basic sciences. I think it would be a great way for preparing for the clinical portion, but i am hesitant about if it is the best way to prepare for the basic science portion. I am just a lil worried. I really like the format for learning - but will it be enuff to get the numbers on the COMLEX? ahhhh so much to think about...

Yes because it provides copious time to read, which is how you learn the basic sciences. PBL doesn't mean you're in PBL 24/7 - in fact you're practicing "PBL" a very small minority of the time (4 hours/week). Most of your time is spent reading on your own.

 

[smohamma]

Is reading on your enough to do well? Is there a good relationship w/ the faculty to get help when confused?

 

[mickdogg81]

Is reading on your enough to do well? Is there a good relationship w/ the faculty to get help when confused?

Reading on your own is enough to do well but the primary point is that you understand what you read..memorizing won't help you a whole lot. A method I found quite effective is writing my own practice questions. I would read, highlight the main points, correlate with BRS, other study guides, and then write a 2 or 3rd order question about the topic. I usually ended up with 200+ questions 1.5 weeks before the exam. I would send these practice exams to other members in my group (and to those whom requested them) and revisit the questions myself a week before the exam. Often times, it was uncanny at how similar many of the questions were on the actual exam! I attribute this to how well I did with PBL and COMLEX-I.
Faculty (most of them) are more than willing to help you out. I believe many of them miss the actual act of teaching and when a student has a question, they often delve pretty deep into the topic..just don't pull "is this gonna be on the test" or "do I have to know this" as 9 times out of 10, you already know that answer But again, this is merely my personal opinion...nicedream may have additional input...he appears to be pretty smart dude

 

[(nicedream)]

I agree with the above, and that's a perfect example of the type of student that succeeds in a PBL program vs. those that have trouble. One has to be self-directed. If you like things spoon-fed to you, then don't bother with the school because you will probably be miserable and may not do well.

 

[monsoon338]

Does the PBL curriculum at Bradenton have actual lectures anytime during the first two years? I saw something on the website that said lectures were downloadable. If PBL is all small based learning, then what are these downloadable lectures?

 

[scpod]

Does the PBL curriculum at Bradenton have actual lectures anytime during the first two years? I saw something on the website that said lectures were downloadable. If PBL is all small based learning, then what are these downloadable lectures?

Anatomy/Histology/Embryology is taught in a lecture with lab format. It lasts 10 weeks. Clinical Exam is taught in lecture with lab. OMM is done the same way. All of those lectures are available on the server. The mini-classes you take, like Ethics, Public Health, Geriatrics, etc...are taught the same way and lectures are on the server.

PBL includes Biochem, Physiology, Pharmacology, Neuroanatomy, Microbiology, Immunology, etc... and there are no lectures for those.

 

[true_currency]

Anyone currently at LECOM know of any students who transferred into the curriculum whether it was for the start of second or third year classes?