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PharmDoReMe

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So, I'm an incoming P1 and I was thinking about getting a new laptop for school since mine is old and sad.

Does anyone have any good recommendations? What laptops do/did you use in pharmacy school, if any at all? I'm definitely not looking at any Mac, though.
 

ldiot

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I would get either the Dell XPS or the Samsung Notebook 9.
 
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Sugoi Travis

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Don't get a Toshiba. Those pieces of crap overheat so much.
 
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Momus

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Don't get surface don't get Mac... Both overpriced chit and you don't get a good spec for your money.

Get an ultrabook < 3-4lb max. You have to have an SSD, it will boot windows in <10s. Absolutely no HDD, they suck and you will be waiting forever on boot screen for >2 mins+. Overheating is not much a concern unless you are gaming on these. 6th generation skylake processor is that great 14nm chip, less heat, less battery drain.

If you are gaming, then get dedicated graphics card at least a gtx 960m to 980m. If you don't game, only for school purposes, browsing, pr0n, Netflix, integrated graphic card is fine.

Lenovo yoga (SDD drive, don't get the Asus)
http://slickdeals.net/f/8911983-asu...0-free-s-h-w-email-code?src=SiteSearchV2Algo1

Acer aspire R14
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381625365139?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

You can't get a better price/value you get from MacBook/Surface. If anything, they are 1lb heavier and slightly thicker. If you can't carry 3-4lb around, then you have a bigger problem.
 
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panasoniku

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You can't get a better price/value you get from MacBook/Surface. If anything, they are 1lb heavier and slightly thicker. If you can't carry 3-4lb around, then you have a bigger problem.

Because you can't write on them...

It really depends on your school and how will you use it. Is your school tech heavy with lots of powerpoints in PDFs to print? Are you tech savvy and like to be organized? Surface 3 (don't need to spend money on a pro) will allow you to write directly on PDFs and powerpoints in class, then you can organize by class, date, etc etc. You can freeform in OneNote (included!) and have it all organized in a neat "binder" with OneDrive backup! I would have killed to have that back when I was in pharm school. Instead, I was printing the slides to scribble all over them in lecture and had huge binders of materials that I had to maintain year after year. HOWEVER, if you prefer pen and paper, then don't waste your money on a surface like product.

If you just want a run of the mill laptop get a XPS13.
 

Momus

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Because you can't write on them...

It really depends on your school and how will you use it. Is your school tech heavy with lots of powerpoints in PDFs to print? Are you tech savvy and like to be organized? Surface 3 (don't need to spend money on a pro) will allow you to write directly on PDFs and powerpoints in class, then you can organize by class, date, etc etc. You can freeform in OneNote (included!) and have it all organized in a neat "binder" with OneDrive backup! I would have killed to have that back when I was in pharm school. Instead, I was printing the slides to scribble all over them in lecture and had huge binders of materials that I had to maintain year after year. HOWEVER, if you prefer pen and paper, then don't waste your money on a surface like product.

If you just want a run of the mill laptop get a XPS13.
You are one funny guy. Those ultra books are all touch screen, a convertible 2 in 1 with 360 hinges so I don't know what you are talking about. Install the right software and you can do wonders. SMH
 

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I see lots of students with Surface Pros and none of them write on them. Trust me, you will stop taking notes after your first week or two of class anyways, especially if the videos are recorded. And you can write on most ultrabooks.



 
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I would have to recommend against the Surface Pro 4 if you're looking for a tablet to transcribe notes. Although the thought of combining qualities of an iPad & a laptop seem like a win-win in terms of versatility, the transcription feature has some design flaws. I currently use this model & seldom use the stylus.

Advantages: light weight, convenient for traveling & carrying to work, App layout or Laptop layout preferences, very adequate battery life, & very good screen resolution. I am somewhat impressed by the stylus drawing ability in comparison to other touch screen devices; however, nothing beats the old-fashion pen & paper

Disadvantages: overheating (even hot weather) can cause the mouse cursor to glitch (ironically works when the touch feature is disabled), separate keypad designed to attach to the model does NOT include a num pad, & the drive ports can act up. Biggest disadvantage would be that the App feature is not compatible with some drug references like Lexicomp; works for Micromedex though (this is critical to consider for places without internet coverage/wifi)
 

Momus

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I see lots of students with Surface Pros and none of them write on them. Trust me, you will stop taking notes after your first week or two of class anyways, especially if the videos are recorded. And you can write on most ultrabooks.




These are OK IF you are willing to shell out $1000-1500, it'd say it's an overkill just to shed 1 lb, look nicer to the eyes, and a tad thinner. If you are one of those people who like to brag because you own brand names crap, then get a brand name chit. If I were you, I'd save $500 for similar specs ultrabooks (2 in 1) from Slickdeal. It won't cost you more than $400-500 and you can laugh at people who buy overpriced laptop at full retail price.
 
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BMBiology

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I have been using my MacBook Pro for the last 8 years. I never had a problem with it. Works like I just got it yesterday. One of my best investments ever.

Spending money on quality things is being smart. It pays in the long run.

I hate being around cheap people. They are a buzz kill. The one person you should never be cheap on is yourself. You will be much happier.


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Momus

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I have been using my MacBook Pro for the last 8 years. I never had a problem with it. Works like I just got it yesterday. One of my best investments ever.

Spending money on quality things is being smart. It pays in the long run.

I hate being around cheap people. They are a buzz kill. The one person you should never be cheap on is yourself. You will be much happier.


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Overpriced and low hardware specs for the money. No thanks. Software incompatibilities on Mac suck. Mac will sell you hot air for 2x the price, if you like to get rip off willingly, buy a mac.
 

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If your school uses ExamSoft aka SoftTest buy the cheapest one you can that meets their minimum requirements.
That way when your computer in ruined or bricked you'll have no qualms about throwing it in the dumpster and having to buy another one.
Your warranty won't cover it because you knowingly installed a recognized virus and gave it full permission to takeover all the software and hardware functions of your computer.
Tech support will tell you to uninstall it but you can't because you need to be able to test.
Un-installing>re-installing between tests will only cause more problems because of the need to re-authenticate.
From experience even uninstalling it won't reverse all the damage it does.
And don't even get me started on how failing to reverse download a duplicate file is an academic integrity violation.
Your computer will never be the same so don't shell out for a Dell XPS or a MacBook Pro.
 
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Dred Pirate

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I have been using my MacBook Pro for the last 8 years. I never had a problem with it. Works like I just got it yesterday. One of my best investments ever.

Spending money on quality things is being smart. It pays in the long run.

I hate being around cheap people. They are a buzz kill. The one person you should never be cheap on is yourself. You will be much happier.


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this x 1000 - I went through laptops way to fast until I got my mac book - have the SSD memory love it
 
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Humble Sloth

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So, I'm an incoming P1 and I was thinking about getting a new laptop for school since mine is old and sad.

Does anyone have any good recommendations? What laptops do/did you use in pharmacy school, if any at all? I'm definitely not looking at any Mac, though.
Get the cheapest laptop that fits your required specs from school (CPU/MEMORY/Network card). A lot of individuals use a laptop as a status symbol hence Apple's success.
 

zelman

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Get the cheapest laptop that fits your required specs from school (CPU/MEMORY/Network card). A lot of individuals use a laptop as a status symbol hence Apple's success.
I don't think that's entirely true. From the release of the iBook G4 through 2005-ish, I think Apple was the only company making quality laptops for less than $1500. There are more options now, but they got their success by doing what nobody else did. Now some people buy as a status symbol, but some of us buy for brand loyalty because we remember the dark days of garbage vs. $2k+ before Apple stepped in.


Also, to all the OS X haters, keep in mind that you can now run windows on Macs and OS X can be set up to run many X11 applications for the linux nerds out there.
 
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confettiflyer

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I used a MacBook in pharmacy school, been using Mac since roughly 2005 (iBook days). Picked one up for <$1k. Super reliable and you don't buy a Mac for specs/dollar value.

I currently own an overpriced, tricked out MacBook for travel purposes (super light).

But full disclosure I had money to burn from a previous job/career so if you're on a super budget I respect if you need to consider a $500 budget machine.

I don't want this to become a Mac/PC pissing match.




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Momus

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A $400-500 deal nowadays will give you i5 6200U 2.3 GHz, sometimes even i7 6500U 2.5 GHz, touch screen convertible 2 in 1, 8-12GB RAM, 250 GB SSD, 3.5 lb. Mac will run at least 3X. You decide if you want to be smart with your money or not.

Current Mac Prices:
$1,299.00
  • 256GB PCIe-based onboard flash storage1
  • 1.1GHz dual-core
    Intel Core m3 processor
    Turbo Boost up to 2.2GHz
  • 8GB memory
  • Intel HD Graphics 515
$1,599.00
  • 512GB PCIe-based onboard flash storage1
  • 1.2GHz dual-core
    Intel Core m5 processor
    Turbo Boost up to 2.7GHz
  • 8GB memory
  • Intel HD Graphics 515
This is laughable. 1.1 gHz dual core, really? And, I am not even gonna put the Pro prices, this is just their basic laptop lol

Full disclosure: I've been using $1k gaming HP laptop since 2010, 6 years later sold it for $350 still running like a champ. It was a heavy laptop so I got an Acer Aspire I posted up above for $400 because I needed a lightweight laptop 4lb. Boot windows in less than 9 seconds. Touch screen, tablet convertible, back lit keyboard, USB-C port, 9 hours battery life, HDMI port for big screen pron, SSD drive, 520 Intel HD graphics (which is better than Mac). What more do I want for $400? Spend 3-4X for lower, slower tech and NO touch screen??? LMAO
 
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Humble Sloth

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A $400-500 deal nowadays will give you i5 6200U 2.3 GHz, sometimes even i7 6500U 2.5 GHz, touch screen convertible 2 in 1, 8-12GB RAM, 250 GB SSD, 3.5 lb. Mac will run at least 3X. You decide if you want to be smart with your money or not.

Current Mac Prices:
$1,299.00
  • 256GB PCIe-based onboard flash storage1
  • 1.1GHz dual-core
    Intel Core m3 processor
    Turbo Boost up to 2.2GHz
  • 8GB memory
  • Intel HD Graphics 515
$1,599.00
  • 512GB PCIe-based onboard flash storage1
  • 1.2GHz dual-core
    Intel Core m5 processor
    Turbo Boost up to 2.7GHz
  • 8GB memory
  • Intel HD Graphics 515
This is laughable. 1.1 gHz dual core, really? And, I am not even gonna put the Pro prices, this is just their basic laptop lol

Full disclosure: I've been using $1k gaming HP laptop since 2010, 6 years later sold it for $350 still running like a champ. It was a heavy laptop so I got an Acer Aspire I posted up above for $400 because I needed a lightweight laptop 4lb. Boot windows in less than 9 seconds. Touch screen, tablet convertible, back lit keyboard, USB-C port, 9 hours battery life, HDMI port for big screen pron, SSD drive, 520 Intel HD graphics (which is better than Mac). What more do I want for $400? Spend 3-4X for lower, slower tech and NO touch screen??? LMAO
I agree. Mac is a premium product for a premium price. I have always built my computers using cheap parts and then using a linux distro because it is free. Lately however I have switched to Windows OS just because it is less headaches and more compatible with software. I repeat that Apple products are a status symbol and severely overpriced.
 

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Wow, reading these replies just reminds me of how much of a dunce I am with technology. :prof: I'll definitely look more in depth at the products recommended!

I'm just not into Mac products outside of my iPhone. I'm very familiar with my Windows and I overall just enjoy it more. Maybe in a few years I'll change my mind and get a Mac, but I'm fine for now. I'm also definitely not looking at anything touch screen. One of my older laptops was a Toshiba and I had no problems with it actually, but maybe I just got lucky. And I don't game either, except for those one or two times a year I play Sims for a week straight lol

I plan to take most, if not all, notes on my laptop. I type way faster than I write.

Thanks for the recommendations, guys! If you've got more I'll definitely be watching the replies.
 

confettiflyer

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A $400-500 deal nowadays will give you i5 6200U 2.3 GHz, sometimes even i7 6500U 2.5 GHz, touch screen convertible 2 in 1, 8-12GB RAM, 250 GB SSD, 3.5 lb. Mac will run at least 3X. You decide if you want to be smart with your money or not.

Current Mac Prices:
$1,299.00
  • 256GB PCIe-based onboard flash storage1
  • 1.1GHz dual-core
    Intel Core m3 processor
    Turbo Boost up to 2.2GHz
  • 8GB memory
  • Intel HD Graphics 515
$1,599.00
  • 512GB PCIe-based onboard flash storage1
  • 1.2GHz dual-core
    Intel Core m5 processor
    Turbo Boost up to 2.7GHz
  • 8GB memory
  • Intel HD Graphics 515
This is laughable. 1.1 gHz dual core, really? And, I am not even gonna put the Pro prices, this is just their basic laptop lol

Full disclosure: I've been using $1k gaming HP laptop since 2010, 6 years later sold it for $350 still running like a champ. It was a heavy laptop so I got an Acer Aspire I posted up above for $400 because I needed a lightweight laptop 4lb. Boot windows in less than 9 seconds. Touch screen, tablet convertible, back lit keyboard, USB-C port, 9 hours battery life, HDMI port for big screen pron, SSD drive, 520 Intel HD graphics (which is better than Mac). What more do I want for $400? Spend 3-4X for lower, slower tech and NO touch screen??? LMAO

All I saw was "Windows" and I threw up a little.


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Momus

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All I saw was "Windows" and I threw up a little.


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Windows 10 comes a long way :) Great look and meant to be used for mobile age. Tho bing search engine effing sucks. Chrome/Google all the way.
 

confettiflyer

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Full disclosure I build my own Linux boxes at home and essentially run my home server, entertainment system, and home automation through them w/ a few random raspberry pi units for things and I still overpay for a MacBook for travel/general use.

But I'm also a well paid pharmacist now, not a poor student. Can't emphasize the budget thing enough


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HelpfulPharmer1

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So, I'm an incoming P1 and I was thinking about getting a new laptop for school since mine is old and sad.

Does anyone have any good recommendations?

I quickly read through the replies and don't see what I experienced so here I share:
I had my own laptop yet my pharmacy school forced me to buy laptop from them. I politely refused and talked to the head computer director and he approved but 5 days later another professor found me personally and told me to get the laptop. No other way around it.

The laptop was 1200 dollars at that time which I could easily buy 5 laptops with that price ! (It was more like value of 600 dollars.)

I am fairly experienced in computer after assembling over 5 computers in my life since Intel 286 in 1993 so such laptop was an overprice laptop for my budget.)

So, before you invest, be very very very clear you will not be forced to buy a laptop at double of market price from school.

Get that in writing...or wait until first week of school to find out.

That's my life experience...and here I share so you don't waste money on your own laptop. Good luck.
 

Humble Sloth

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I quickly read through the replies and don't see what I experienced so here I share:
I had my own laptop yet my pharmacy school forced me to buy laptop from them. I politely refused and talked to the head computer director and he approved but 5 days later another professor found me personally and told me to get the laptop. No other way around it.

The laptop was 1200 dollars at that time which I could easily buy 5 laptops with that price ! (It was more like value of 600 dollars.)

I am fairly experienced in computer after assembling over 5 computers in my life since Intel 286 in 1993 so such laptop was an overprice laptop for my budget.)

So, before you invest, be very very very clear you will not be forced to buy a laptop at double of market price from school.

Get that in writing...or wait until first week of school to find out.

That's my life experience...and here I share so you don't waste money on your own laptop. Good luck.

At Roosevelt Pharmacy school they provide all new students with a brand new Apple laptop for no charge. Of course the price of the laptop and their day care facility are built into the hyper inflated tuition of 47,000+ USD a year.
 
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PharmDoReMe

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Wow, I had no idea schools still gave students new laptops. I knew of one undergraduate school that did that, but never any graduate or professional program.

I double checked with a current student however, since HelpfulPharmer1 brought up that laptop issue I never even thought about, and my school doesn't have any of that laptop BS. So I'll just browse the recommendations and see what I can do with my budget. :)
 

ldiot

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My school doesn't make you buy a laptop through them. You just have to take exams on their computers.
 

confettiflyer

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I quickly read through the replies and don't see what I experienced so here I share:
I had my own laptop yet my pharmacy school forced me to buy laptop from them. I politely refused and talked to the head computer director and he approved but 5 days later another professor found me personally and told me to get the laptop. No other way around it.

The laptop was 1200 dollars at that time which I could easily buy 5 laptops with that price ! (It was more like value of 600 dollars.)

I am fairly experienced in computer after assembling over 5 computers in my life since Intel 286 in 1993 so such laptop was an overprice laptop for my budget.)

So, before you invest, be very very very clear you will not be forced to buy a laptop at double of market price from school.

Get that in writing...or wait until first week of school to find out.

That's my life experience...and here I share so you don't waste money on your own laptop. Good luck.

Can't you sell it as new-in-box and keep your old laptop? At least you can recover some of the cost ::shrug::
 

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What kind of programs mandate laptop purchases and software installation so aspiring unemployed PharmDs can avoid these schools?
 

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I recently purchased a refurbished Surface Pro 2 on Amazon for about $350. That was one hell of a price for a very nice piece of hardware. I don't think I could justify the $1500+ price for a new one, but luckily computer hardware progression has leveled out a bit and a couple year old device is basically as good as new these days.
 

confettiflyer

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I recently purchased a refurbished Surface Pro 2 on Amazon for about $350. That was one hell of a price for a very nice piece of hardware. I don't think I could justify the $1500+ price for a new one, but luckily computer hardware progression has leveled out a bit and a couple year old device is basically as good as new these days.

Wow that's a pretty damn good deal. What's the warranty on that thing? Especially with flash memory now and solid state storage, buying a used computer/device isn't as harrowing as it used to be.
 

Humble Sloth

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Wow that's a pretty damn good deal. What's the warranty on that thing? Especially with flash memory now and solid state storage, buying a used computer/device isn't as harrowing as it used to be.

I recently purchased a refurbished Surface Pro 2 on Amazon for about $350. That was one hell of a price for a very nice piece of hardware. I don't think I could justify the $1500+ price for a new one, but luckily computer hardware progression has leveled out a bit and a couple year old device is basically as good as new these days.

Never buy used computer equipment. Who knows what illegal porn the person viewed on the computer. Even if they deleted the porn it is still saved on the harddrive until the bits are overridden. Also probably cached elsewhere on the harddrive. Plus the MAC address is the same and it could have been used for illegal activity. Is any amount of savings worth going to federal prison for 10-20 years?
 
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confettiflyer

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Never buy used computer equipment. Who knows what illegal porn the person viewed on the computer. Even if they deleted the porn it is still saved on the harddrive until the bits are overridden. Also probably cached elsewhere on the harddrive. Plus the MAC address is the same and it could have been used for illegal activity. Is any amount of savings worth going to federal prison for 10-20 years?

Child porn...well that escalated quickly. --__--
 

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I got a surface pro 3 and i cannot say enough good things about it...extremely portable...more powerful than most full size laptops out there----the pen is amazing--you can actually take notes with the same intuitiveness as with a regular pen or pencil. I have not needed to buy surface pro 4...but I can only imagine that it's the bombbbbb.

I had a mac book pro which i don't use much anaymore...tehy are much bulkier than the surface pros. once you have one...you not gonna want to carry all that weight and bulk around...especially on rotations and stuff---it carries just like tablet.

My rec:

1. surface PRO
2. regular surface
3. -----------------

4th----Lenovo/Samsung/Dell/Apple
5th- HP
6th---others
 
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Lnsean

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Never buy used computer equipment. Who knows what illegal porn the person viewed on the computer. Even if they deleted the porn it is still saved on the harddrive until the bits are overridden. Also probably cached elsewhere on the harddrive. Plus the MAC address is the same and it could have been used for illegal activity. Is any amount of savings worth going to federal prison for 10-20 years?

OCD much? the bits on the HD get over ridden all the time...not really an issue. MAC address? lol.
 

Humble Sloth

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OCD much? the bits on the HD get over ridden all the time...not really an issue. MAC address? lol.
IDK about OCD. Maybe paranoia. What i said is assuming best case scenario: that the seller completely re imaged the computer which often doesn't happen. Which means there could be directories/browsers caches/ file caches full of contraband material. I always buy new and destroy my old computer to protect my creditcard and banking info.
 

Lnsean

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IDK about OCD. Maybe paranoia. What i said is assuming best case scenario: that the seller completely re imaged the computer which often doesn't happen. Which means there could be directories/browsers caches/ file caches full of contraband material. I always buy new and destroy my old computer to protect my creditcard and banking info.

No need---just buy a new HD or reformat your HD and install OS from beginning. You just pick up a used laptop and start using it right away? No. Even if you did...nothing will happen.
 

Humble Sloth

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No need---just buy a new HD or reformat your HD and install OS from beginning. You just pick up a used laptop and start using it right away? No. Even if you did...nothing will happen.
You would have to replace the RAM too because data can get cached on there too. I agree that it is unlikely anything will happen but still better to stay safe IMO.
 

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You would have to replace the RAM too because data can get cached on there too. I agree that it is unlikely anything will happen but still better to stay safe IMO.


That's not true at all. RAM data states are not persistent/stable. They are constantly being rewritten and cached over. I don't think you know how RAM works at all. The reason we use RAM is because it is faster...not because it is able to retain information like an HD...that's what an actual HD is for. Just because you saw it on CSI or Mr and Mrs Smith doesn't mean that it's true.
 
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I got a surface pro 3 and i cannot say enough good things about it...extremely portable...more powerful than most full size laptops out there----the pen is amazing--you can actually take notes with the same intuitiveness as with a regular pen or pencil. I have not needed to buy surface pro 4...but I can only imagine that it's the bombbbbb.

I had a mac book pro which i don't use much anaymore...tehy are much bulkier than the surface pros. once you have one...you not gonna want to carry all that weight and bulk around...especially on rotations and stuff---it carries just like tablet.

My rec:

1. surface PRO
2. regular surface
3. -----------------

4th----Lenovo/Samsung/Dell/Apple
5th- HP
6th---others

Try to beat a $400 ultrabook with 360 hinges touchscreen.
http://slickdeals.net/f/8726211-ace...-1920x1080-touchscreen-8gb-ddr3-256gb-ssd-400

Vs. Surface pro 4, same specs for $1300. It has a better resolution, less weight.
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Surface-Pro-4/productID.325711500

The only way I will recommend someone buy a surface if they want to use their computer as a tablet MOST of the time and fork out that $1300. Other than that, hell no... it's dumb. If you tote around a tablet for your rotation, no one is gonna be impressed with you anyway. Anyone can look up that info with their phone.
 

Lnsean

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Try to beat a $400 ultrabook with 360 hinges touchscreen.
http://slickdeals.net/f/8726211-ace...-1920x1080-touchscreen-8gb-ddr3-256gb-ssd-400

Vs. Surface pro 4, same specs for $1300. It has a better resolution, less weight.
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Surface-Pro-4/productID.325711500

The only way I will recommend someone buy a surface if they want to use their computer as a tablet MOST of the time and fork out that $1300. Other than that, hell no... it's dumb. If you tote around a tablet for your rotation, no one is gonna be impressed with you anyway. Anyone can look up that info with their phone.

The surface pro is really a laptop replacement in a tablet form. I don't see anything that is even on par with it. If you have not used it...then I would suggest trying it out first. The pen and note taking ability alone puts it leagues above anything else out there. I used to use laptops all the time for presentations and things besides just a USB stick.
 

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Never buy used computer equipment. Who knows what illegal porn the person viewed on the computer. Even if they deleted the porn it is still saved on the harddrive until the bits are overridden. Also probably cached elsewhere on the harddrive. Plus the MAC address is the same and it could have been used for illegal activity. Is any amount of savings worth going to federal prison for 10-20 years?
Clean install windows, use a wipe program (Eraser, Dban, or CCleaner to overwrite harddisk space multiple times). Select US DoD (7 passes if you are paranoid as hell). Made by US Department of Defense to overwrite all addressable locations with a character, its complement, then a random character and verify. Done...

Warning if you do this, you'd never be able to retrieve your deleted data EVER...

0523-eraser-5173718.jpg
 
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Humble Sloth

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That's not true at all. RAM data states are not persistent/stable. They are constantly being rewritten and cached over. I don't think you know how RAM works at all. The reason we use RAM is because it is faster...not because it is able to retain information like an HD...that's what an actual HD is for. Just because you saw it on CSI or Mr and Mrs Smith doesn't mean that it's true.

Bits can be recovered from RAM. I agree with you it's much harder to recover those bits than unwritten-over HD bits but it's still very possible by a computer expert. Also I haven't owned a television for over 20 years so those references were lost on me :/

Clean install windows, use a wipe program (Eraser, Dban, or CCleaner to overwrite harddisk space multiple times). Select US DoD (7 passes if you are paranoid as hell). Made by US Department of Defense to overwrite all addressable locations with a character, its complement, then a random character and verify. Done...

Warning if you do this, you'd never be able to retrieve your deleted data EVER...
7 passes? more like 50 passes then we are talking :)
 

Momus

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The surface pro is really a laptop replacement in a tablet form. I don't see anything that is even on par with it. If you have not used it...then I would suggest trying it out first. The pen and note taking ability alone puts it leagues above anything else out there. I used to use laptops all the time for presentations and things besides just a USB stick.
That's all you get from Surface pro, extreme portability, and better screen. Compare 2lb Surface 3X cost vs 3-4lb Ultrabook. I don't have a need to be portable all the time. Laptop is hooked on to 50 inch TV via HDMI. If I want to carry it around, my ultrabook at 3-4lb is not gonna kill me, I can spend $900 left over for hookers and cocaine.
 
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Momus

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Bits can be recovered from RAM. I agree with you it's much harder to recover those bits than unwritten-over HD bits but it's still very possible by a computer expert.


7 passes? more like 50 passes then we are talking :)
Then, you can pick Gutman method. 35 passes. Be prepare you have to run it 24/7 for more than a week just to complete that.
 
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Humble Sloth

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Then, you can pick Gutman method. 35 passes. Be prepare you have to run it 24/7 for more than a week just to complete that.

Oh god. That doesn't sound good for the CPU. Wouldn't the processor overheat and melt the thermal paste then cause the heat sink to fail?!

Also sorry for derailing this thread into a security thread when it's about popular laptop commercialism
 

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Bits can be recovered from RAM. I agree with you it's much harder to recover those bits than unwritten-over HD bits but it's still very possible by a computer expert. Also I haven't owned a television for over 20 years so those references were lost on me :/

No, data cannot be recovered from RAM. RAM data is volatile...lasts milliseconds (cold boots can prolong this a bit but still not practical that someone would cold boot your ram modules in front of you)
 
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Lnsean

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Oh god. That doesn't sound good for the CPU. Wouldn't the processor overheat and melt the thermal paste then cause the heat sink to fail?!

Also sorry for derailing this thread into a security thread when it's about popular laptop commercialism

not sure if paranoid or trolling at this point....the line is very thin
 

Humble Sloth

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No, data cannot be recovered from RAM. RAM data is volatile...lasts milliseconds (cold boots can prolong this a bit but still not practical that someone would cold boot your ram modules in front of you)

You are quite wrong.


Data in RAM
Data remanence has been observed in static random-access memory (SRAM), which is typically considered volatile (i.e., the contents degrade with loss of external power). In one study, data retention was observed even at room temperature.[11]

Data remanence has also been observed in dynamic random-access memory (DRAM). Modern DRAM chips have a built-in self-refresh module, as they not only require a power supply to retain data, but must also be periodically refreshed to prevent their data contents from fading away from the capacitors in their integrated circuits. A study found data remanence in DRAM with data retention of seconds to minutes at room temperature and "a full week without refresh when cooled with liquid nitrogen."[12] The study authors were able to use a cold boot attack to recover cryptographic keys for several popular full disk encryption systems, including MicrosoftBitLocker, Apple FileVault, dm-crypt for Linux, and TrueCrypt.[12](p12)

Despite some memory degradation, authors of the above described study were able to take advantage of redundancy in the way keys are stored after they have been expanded for efficient use, such as in key scheduling. The authors recommend that computers be powered down, rather than be left in a "sleep" state, when not in physical control of the owner. In some cases, such as certain modes of the software program BitLocker, the authors recommend that a boot password or a key on a removable USB device be used.[12](p12) TRESOR is a kernel patch for Linux specifically intended to prevent cold boot attacks on RAM by ensuring encryption keys are neither user accessible nor stored in RAM.
 
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