Larkin University COP

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PharmDBro2017 said:
Strong username.

Lol @ team based learning. What a horrible experience.


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Can you describe why it was horrible?
Every site can be different. Maybe there are things that can be fixed at the site where you had that experience. Feedback appreciated to help improve.
 
Thank goodness Florida finally has its seventh college of pharmacy. With only two pharmacy schools in South Florida, we were barely able to keep the saturation going. This should really kick it into overdrive!
 
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The lead author looks real happy to be there.
Smile Arelys...life is too short to be scowling all the time.
 
Larkinpharmd, I've always wanted to know... I'd like to hear it from you, a representative of one of these diploma mills. Can you tell me why you think your new school benefits the profession of pharmacy and what need you believe you are filling? No history, no need in the area, no alumni, PRIVATE SCHOOL PRICING, I really don't know why anyone would "choose Larkin." Its frustrating seeing so many new private pharmacy schools popping up while the market is getting more saturated everyday.
 
residenthopeful2017 said:
Larkinpharmd, I've always wanted to know... I'd like to hear it from you, a representative of one of these diploma mills. Can you tell me why you think your new school benefits the profession of pharmacy and what need you believe you are filling? No history, no need in the area, no alumni, PRIVATE SCHOOL PRICING, I really don't know why anyone would "choose Larkin." Its frustrating seeing so many new private pharmacy schools popping up while the market is getting more saturated everyday.
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Not sure what you are referring to as far as "diploma mill". Larkin inaugural class was 62 students. 80% came for underrepresented minorities, many would not have been able to relocate to go to College of Pharmacy. Maybe you are referring to places that have campuses as far as Puerto Rico, and are graduating hundreds of pharmacists. Those are the true diploma mills.
Our new school benefits the profession of pharmacy in many ways: we have travelled to Tallahassee to advocate for expanding the currently limited role of pharmacists in Florida. We have hosted representative Carter, the only pharmacist in Congress to advocate for expansion of the roles of pharmacists with new proposed legislation. We are explaining the value of the new legislation and how it will help patients to Senator Rubio to add him as a sponsor.
We have done this in the last 9 months.
What have the "establishment schools" done in the last 50 years? Other than make money?
 
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LarkinpharmD said:
Not sure what you are referring to as far as "diploma mill". Larkin inaugural class was 62 students. 80% came for underrepresented minorities, many would not have been able to relocate to go to College of Pharmacy. Maybe you are referring to places that have campuses as far as Puerto Rico, and are graduating hundreds of pharmacists. Those are the true diploma mills.
Our new school benefits the profession of pharmacy in many ways: we have travelled to Tallahassee to advocate for expanding the currently limited role of pharmacists in Florida. We have hosted representative Carter, the only pharmacist in Congress to advocate for expansion of the roles of pharmacists with new proposed legislation. We are explaining the value of the new legislation and how it will help patients to Senator Rubio to add him as a sponsor.
We have done this in the last 9 months.
What have the "establishment schools" done in the last 50 years? Other than make money?
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Thank you for responding to my post. I apologize but I can't help but be a bit bitter with the opening of new schools, given the saturation of the market. I graduated from a top pharmacy program (not bragging, just stating this to explain what my "establishment school" has done). Without disclosing where I attended, I can say that we've done all of the things you've mentioned, aside from contacting Rubio since I was not in FL. I met with Buddy Carter even before he went into office. Id say pretty much every school has students who participate in these activities and more so that's not very unique to Larkin. I see novelty in your statement about underepresented minorities, but they could have went to Nova if they needed to stay local. If they weren't competitive enough to go to Nova then they should re-apply next year (isn't that what you do when you don't get accepted into professional school). Why do we need more pharmacy schools? Do you not agree that it decreases standards to get into pharmacy school and over saturates the market? Graduates are already having a hard time finding jobs.
 
residenthopeful2017 said:
Thank you for responding to my post. I apologize but I can't help but be a bit bitter with the opening of new schools, given the saturation of the market. I graduated from a top pharmacy program (not bragging, just stating this to explain what my "establishment school" has done). Without disclosing where I attended, I can say that we've done all of the things you've mentioned, aside from contacting Rubio since I was not in FL. I met with Buddy Carter even before he went into office. Id say pretty much every school has students who participate in these activities and more so that's not very unique to Larkin. I see novelty in your statement about underepresented minorities, but they could have went to Nova if they needed to stay local. If they weren't competitive enough to go to Nova then they should re-apply next year (isn't that what you do when you don't get accepted into professional school). Why do we need more pharmacy schools? Do you not agree that it decreases standards to get into pharmacy school and over saturates the market? Graduates are already having a hard time finding jobs.
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I don't quite grasp how it "decreases" standards. Larkin could have admitted 120 students, or the allowed capacity by ACPE, like everyone else does. Instead, they chose to be selective, and really concentrated on developing a quality program. And the results are demonstrated in the extremely low attrition rate, when compared to any school in Florida.
I also neglected to mention another unique feature that Larkin brings to the table. Larkin is the 3rd largest Statutory Teaching hospital in Florida and the opportunities for interprofessional collaboration (the lack of which is responsible for a quarter of a million deaths annually in our country's hospitals) are unsurpassed.
We are also working on expanding our existing pharmacy residency program to provide more opportunities for postgraduate training for pharmacists. That would not have happened without our advocacy as Larkin University College of Pharmacy students. when was the last time your alma matter started a new pharmacy residency program?
 
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LarkinpharmD said:
I don't quite grasp how it "decreases" standards. Larkin could have admitted 120 students, or the allowed capacity by ACPE, like everyone else does. Instead, they chose to be selective, and really concentrated on developing a quality program. And the results are demonstrated in the extremely low attrition rate, when compared to any school in Florida.
I also neglected to mention another unique feature that Larkin brings to the table. Larkin is the 3rd largest Statutory Teaching hospital in Florida and the opportunities for interprofessional collaboration (the lack of which is responsible for a quarter of a million deaths annually in our country's hospitals) are unsurpassed.
We are also working on expanding our existing pharmacy residency program to provide more opportunities for postgraduate training for pharmacists. That would not have happened without our advocacy as Larkin University College of Pharmacy students. when was the last time your alma matter started a new pharmacy residency program?
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To answer your question (which I'm sure is to your surprise), 2017 was the Last time we created a new residency and it was not the first. We also have a number of fellowships available, 4 PGY1/2 pharmacy admin resident positions directed associated with our school of pharmacy (this isn't including the 25+ Pharmacy resident positions with our affiliate University hospital).
 
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residenthopeful2017 said:
To answer your question (which I'm sure is to your surprise), 2017 was the Last time we created a new residency and it was not the first. We also have a number of fellowships available, 4 PGY1/2 pharmacy admin resident positions directed associated with our school of pharmacy (this isn't including the 25+ resident positions with our affiliate University hospital).
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That's great!
Larkin has 300 medical Residents (in 32 specialties), 21 dental (AEGD) residents, 20 Dietetic interns, but only one pharmacy resident slot (which was established long before the COP). The plan is to increase the pharmacy opportunities at all 3 Larkin system hospitals. The challenge is the fact that CMS reimbursement doesn't cover the full cost. We would be interested in learning more about the programs your school sponsors. We would like to be able to put a package together to other hospitals we work with a value proposition for expanding pharmacy slots. Maybe we can discuss offline since your "residenthopeful2017" code name seems to suggest an interest in pharmacy residency programs?
 
LarkinpharmD said:
That's great!
Larkin has 300 medical Residents (in 32 specialties), 21 dental (AEGD) residents, 20 Dietetic interns, but only one pharmacy resident slot (which was established long before the COP). The plan is to increase the pharmacy opportunities at all 3 Larkin system hospitals. The challenge is the fact that CMS reimbursement doesn't cover the full cost. We would be interested in learning more about the programs your school sponsors. We would like to be able to put a package together to other hospitals we work with a value proposition for expanding pharmacy slots. Maybe we can discuss offline since your "residenthopeful2017" code name seems to suggest an interest in pharmacy residency programs?
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I think that's great that you're trying to expand your residency program though. Thank you but I am not interested at this time.
 
PRX2021 said:
Looks like the dean is back on SDN! I actually spoke to one of the students there and he said that he ended up coming to larkin b/c UF Jacksonville rejected him.
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That is simply not true. He came to Larkin directly from Nevada six years ago.
 
LOL! Ummm.. 6 years ago? This has been the first year larkin had been open. I dont know who you are talking about. How do you even know which student I'm referring to? It is true, I heard it with my own ears from the P1 students mouth.
 
PRX2021 said:
LOL! Ummm.. 6 years ago? This has been the first year larkin had been open. I dont know who you are talking about. How do you even know which student I'm referring to? It is true, I heard it with my own ears from the P1 students mouth.
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Dean Levin was hired by Larkin 6 years ago. He came from Roseman in Nevada to start the College of Pharmacy at Larkin. The first 3 years he was Chief Academic Officer and worked with the Graduate Medical Education Department at Larkin until the College of Pharmacy was started. Not sure whose mouth you are quoting, but these are facts, not subject to opinion.
 
residenthopeful2017 said:
I think that's great that you're trying to expand your residency program though. Thank you but I am not interested at this time.
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We are not just trying, we will. We have organized a group of P1s and we are getting together with faculty and administration at Larkin to make this happen. Stay tuned. Have a great weekend.
 
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LarkinpharmD said:
Dean Levin was hired by Larkin 6 years ago. He came from Roseman in Nevada to start the College of Pharmacy at Larkin. The first 3 years he was Chief Academic Officer and worked with the Graduate Medical Education Department at Larkin until the College of Pharmacy was started. Not sure whose mouth you are quoting, but these are facts, not subject to opinion.
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Ummm.. no one is talking about the dean here. I'm talking about an actual P1 student that ended up at Larkin bc UF rejected him. I mean since you keep posting "why we chose larkin". There goes one actual reason why one of the current P1 students "chose Larkin". I don't think you're going to convince the internet that Larkin was everyone's first choice.
 
PRX2021 said:
Ummm.. no one is talking about the dean here. I'm talking about an actual P1 student that ended up at Larkin bc UF rejected him. I mean since you keep posting "why we chose larkin". There goes one actual reason why one of the current P1 students "chose Larkin". I don't think you're going to convince the internet that Larkin was everyone's first choice.
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No one is trying to convince anyone about anything. The 2 students that wrote "Why I chose Larkin" did it on their own initiative. For all I know Larkin may not have been their first choice. I was not one of the students who wrote that article, and no one coerced them into doing it. These are their own words. Maybe they chose Larkin or maybe they realized all the positives after having the opportunity. It's great that this P1 got the opportunity. We have a single mother who chose Larkin because she could not afford to relocate, because she likes being able to finish in 3 years and pay off her debt in the fourth year. Different people have different reasons.
We had hundreds of applicants for this cycle and our leadership chose to keep the enrollment under ninety students for the second class. We don't need more applicants. We rather keep it small. Our attrition rate for the inaugural class is almost zero, which is unheard of in the bigger schools. We feel really nurtured here and many of us feel that we would not have become pharmacists were it not for Larkin.
 
Rockinacoustic said:
Curious what other schools rejected you guys then...
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Your comment is rude and the very definition of discrimination. "We guys" may be minorities but you cannot assume that we are all the same and that we all must have been rejected by other schools.
Do you really believe that the criteria currently used by the "establishment" schools, such us GPA and test scores are really determining factors as to who is going to be the best pharmacist or who is going to make substantial contributions to our profession? Do you really think that with thousands of applications they really make an effort to look at the "whole person"?
I am sure some of our classmates may have been rejected by other schools and others simply chose Larkin for other reasons. We have a single mother in our class who lives nearby our College of Pharmacy and would not have been able to go elsewhere because she has no one to help with her children, she also liked being done in 3 years and paying her loans back on the 4th year while everyone else in Florida is only graduating. She also liked the block curriculum concentrating on one topic at a time, avoiding rote memorization.
You know the real question is not why we chose Larkin, but why the best professors from NSU and other Florida schools chose to leave established schools to create Larkin University College of Pharmacy. These professors were consistently rated top by their students and worked at NSU for decades. They were not fired, they quit and joined Larkin. That is a testament that they were looking for something new and innovative without the constraints and red tape of the establishment.
 
LarkinpharmD said:
Your comment is rude and the very definition of discrimination. "We guys" may be minorities but you cannot assume that we are all the same and that we all must have been rejected by other schools.
Do you really believe that the criteria currently used by the "establishment" schools, such us GPA and test scores are really determining factors as to who is going to be the best pharmacist or who is going to make substantial contributions to our profession? Do you really think that with thousands of applications they really make an effort to look at the "whole person"?
I am sure some of our classmates may have been rejected by other schools and others simply chose Larkin for other reasons. We have a single mother in our class who lives nearby our College of Pharmacy and would not have been able to go elsewhere because she has no one to help with her children, she also liked being done in 3 years and paying her loans back on the 4th year while everyone else in Florida is only graduating. She also liked the block curriculum concentrating on one topic at a time, avoiding rote memorization.
You know the real question is not why we chose Larkin, but why the best professors from NSU and other Florida schools chose to leave established schools to create Larkin University College of Pharmacy. These professors were consistently rated top by their students and worked at NSU for decades. They were not fired, they quit and joined Larkin. That is a testament that they were looking for something new and innovative without the constraints and red tape of the establishment.
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I think he meant "you guys" as you P1 students, well that's I how interpreted it. I don't think anyone here other than you is starting something discriminatory.
And people often leave careers and venture out to new things in order to make more money!
And with those high interest rates from private loans, Larkin comes out wayyyy too expensive! Regardless getting out a year early, that year is going to be spent paying off only half what you owe now. Ohh and that's if you plan to be frugal.So in reality there is no advantage in finishing in 3 years other than entering the job market one year earlier. Maybe once larkin gets Accredited and has fafsa but definitely not now.
 
Team based learning requires a lot of work on the part of the student. The private pharmacy school in my area uses team based learning. Motivated students do great, but less motivated students get left behind. It's not bad, but it's not for the faint of heart 🙂
I went to the state school
 
I will give the person props for coming on SDN to defend their school - most of the deans won't - other than that chapman dude - and he gets roasted Although larkin is a little overly defensive - you have to realize the glut of pharmacists is starting to affect job satisfaction, work conditions, and future prospects - when you mess with our paycheck and way of life, you are going to get shade thrown at you. If you feel strongly about affecting they way of education, why didn't you go to another school and improve them, vs starting up another school that will simply add to the saturation that faces the country and especially your area? Those students you feel you are helping, you are only hurting many of them after graduation.
 
PRX2021 said:
I think he meant "you guys" as you P1 students, well that's I how interpreted it. I don't think anyone here other than you is starting something discriminatory.
And people often leave careers and venture out to new things in order to make more money!
And with those high interest rates from private loans, Larkin comes out wayyyy too expensive! Regardless getting out a year early, that year is going to be spent paying off only half what you owe now. Ohh and that's if you plan to be frugal.So in reality there is no advantage in finishing in 3 years other than entering the job market one year earlier. Maybe once larkin gets Accredited and has fafsa but definitely not now.
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That takes a while, but the good news is we are expecting Candidate Status approval next month after a very successful ACPE visit.
 
Dred Pirate said:
I will give the person props for coming on SDN to defend their school - most of the deans won't - other than that chapman dude - and he gets roasted Although larkin is a little overly defensive - you have to realize the glut of pharmacists is starting to affect job satisfaction, work conditions, and future prospects - when you mess with our paycheck and way of life, you are going to get shade thrown at you. If you feel strongly about affecting they way of education, why didn't you go to another school and improve them, vs starting up another school that will simply add to the saturation that faces the country and especially your area? Those students you feel you are helping, you are only hurting many of them after graduation.
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The issue is that the role of the pharmacist needs to evolve. This requires advocacy and fresh thinking. There is Federal and State legislation currently being considered that could transform that. We also need more residency program opportunities, especially in specialties.
The schools responsible for the glut are the established schools, some of which are graduating 300 pharmacists every year at multiple campuses. The glut was not created by a school that will graduate 60 pharmacists in 2019.
 
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LarkinpharmD said:
The issue is that the role of the pharmacist needs to evolve. This requires advocacy and fresh thinking. There is Federal and State legislation currently being considered that could transform that. We also need more residency program opportunities, especially in specialties.
The schools responsible for the glut are the established schools, some of which are graduating 300 pharmacists every year at multiple campuses. The glut was not created by a school that will graduate 60 pharmacists in 2019.
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I'll assume this is a passive aggressive stab at UF. I agree though, they should decrease their enrollment. My school decided to cut 5 spots from the incoming class for this reason (or at least, that's what they tell us). But I believe you're wrong, why ADD to the glut then? It is worsened by a new school that will graduate 60 MORE pharmacists. You can't just add to the number then blame other schools for already having that many graduates. Having a new pharmacy school has nothing to do with creating new residency programs. Larkin's hospital system could have expanded their residency program with or without a pharmacy school. Let's look just in Florida, many residency programs are actually NOT associated with a pharmacy school (Miami VA, Memorial Regional, Broward Health, etc). Yes they work with them to have their students do rotations there, but the program itself has nothing to do with the the pharmacy school.
 
LarkinpharmD said:
The issue is that the role of the pharmacist needs to evolve. This requires advocacy and fresh thinking.
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Could you expand on this? Specifically, I'd like to hear what Larkin's role is in this mission.
 
hiremeresidency2017 said:
I'll assume this is a passive aggressive stab at UF. I agree though, they should decrease their enrollment. My school decided to cut 5 spots from the incoming class for this reason (or at least, that's what they tell us). But I believe you're wrong, why ADD to the glut then? It is worsened by a new school that will graduate 60 MORE pharmacists. You can't just add to the number then blame other schools for already having that many graduates. Having a new pharmacy school has nothing to do with creating new residency programs. Larkin's hospital system could have expanded their residency program with or without a pharmacy school. Let's look just in Florida, many residency programs are actually NOT associated with a pharmacy school (Miami VA, Memorial Regional, Broward Health, etc). Yes they work with them to have their students do rotations there, but the program itself has nothing to do with the the pharmacy school.
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It's actually not a stab at any specific school, all the Florida schools have had no issues opening more branches, while being critical of new schools and I am sure those 5 spots they cut are going to resolve the glut issue, lol...come on...
A new school creates the advocacy necessary to create more post graduate opportunities. It takes advocacy because every single one of those places you mentioned: Miami VA, Memorial Regional, Broward Health are supported by taxpayers, whether Federal, County or State. We need a new model where private institutions that are not supported by taxation dollars see the benefit of creating more post graduate opportunities for pharmacists. We need to understand the reimbursement issues for private hospitals and be able to present a value proposition of how starting pharmacy residents may not be fully reimbursed directly by CMS, but if you look at the valuable role these residents can play in preventing medication errors, and preventing readmissions they would be sold. Thats why a hospital where interprofessional team based learning taking place makes sense and That's what a new school with a fresh viewpoint, not supported by taxation dollars can do: think out of the box.
 
gwarm01 said:
Could you expand on this? Specifically, I'd like to hear what Larkin's role is in this mission.
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Sure. We have only been around for 9 months. But we are creating a APhA-ASP Larkin University Chapter, which advocates to support new federal and state legislation to expand the role of pharmacists. We are currently in touch with our state Senator Rubio to get him to support The following Federal legislation:

All Info - S.109 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Pharmacy and Medically Underserved Areas Enhancement Act
 
LarkinpharmD said:
It's actually not a stab at any specific school, all the Florida schools have had no issues opening more branches, while being critical of new schools and I am sure those 5 spots they cut are going to resolve the glut issue, lol...come on...
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Lol seriously? It takes everyone to do their part. If every school cut 5 students from their enrollment, the number of graduates every year would substantially decrease. This is part of the problem and you're condemning programs for trying to help with the over-saturation issue (all the while adding 60 students to it per year)?

If someone picked up one piece of trash from the ground on a park, would you condemn them for not picking up every single piece of trash because "one piece wont save the Earth." Please.
 
jblil said:
That sounds awfully high. Sources?
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My pleasure, here is the link:
Hospital Errors are the Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S., and New Hospital Safety Scores Show Improvements Are Too Slow
New research estimates up to 440,000 Americans are dying annually from preventable hospital errors. This puts medical errors as the third leading cause of death in the United States, underscoring the need for patients to protect themselves and their families from harm, and for hospitals to make patient safety a priority.
The primary culprit is lack of communication/collaboration among Healthcare providers. This could be the key behind advocacy for the expansion of the role of the pharmacists both in hospitals and in the community.
 
hiremeresidency2017 said:
Lol seriously? It takes everyone to do their part. If every school cut 5 students from their enrollment, the number of graduates every year would substantially decrease. This is part of the problem and you're condemning programs for trying to help with the over-saturation issue (all the while adding 60 students to it per year)?

If someone picked up one piece of trash from the ground on a park, would you condemn them for not picking up every single piece of trash because "one piece wont save the Earth." Please.
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Don't want to argue for the sake of arguing but please read the rest of my message.
 
LarkinpharmD said:
Don't want to argue for the sake of arguing but please read the rest of my message.
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You make some valid points regarding improvements in the hospital setting. However, the rest of your post has zero to do with opening a new pharmacy school.
 
hiremeresidency2017 said:
You make some valid points regarding improvements in the hospital setting. However, the rest of your post has zero to do with opening a new pharmacy school.
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Do you think the State of Florida schools have a valid point continuing to rely on our tax dollars to fund these large classes, funds we could be using to expand Medicaid?
We talk about student loan burden, but at least Larkin students are paying their own way. Our loan burden is ours and our families. We are not asking anyone to pay it for us. We are not taking money from the State or Feds.
 
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LarkinpharmD said:
Do you think the State of Florida schools have a valid point continuing to rely on our tax dollars to fund these large classes, funds we could be using to expand Medicaid?
We talk about student loan burden, but at least Larkin students are paying their own way. Our loan burden is ours and our families. We are not asking anyone to pay it for us. We are not taking money from the State or Feds.
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LOL! Isn't that because you're not accredited yet!
 
LarkinpharmD said:
Do you think the State of Florida schools have a valid point continuing to rely on our tax dollars to fund these large classes, funds we could be using to expand Medicaid?
We talk about student loan burden, but at least Larkin students are paying their own way. Our loan burden is ours and our families. We are not asking anyone to pay it for us. We are not taking money from the State or Feds.
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@LarkinpharmD You say this - but as soon as your students are eligible for student loans are you going to refuse to accept federal dollars? If not - then this post is complete hypocrisy - you will line up to take the $$ for you and your students.


in regards to your previous reply to me:
The issue is that the role of the pharmacist needs to evolve. This requires advocacy and fresh thinking. There is Federal and State legislation currently being considered that could transform that. We also need more residency program opportunities, especially in specialties.
The schools responsible for the glut are the established schools, some of which are graduating 300 pharmacists every year at multiple campuses. The glut was not created by a school that will graduate 60 pharmacists in 2019.

1. This "fresh thinking" has been going around for decades - it just changes it name over the years -there is the ability to make small changes, slowly it is happening, but opening an entire new school to do this? bull crap - you can do it at another school - you will spend more of your time building your school (and cashing the private tuition checks) to actually do much in this realm.

2. The glut starts one school at a time - no single person or school contributes to it - you at least realize there is a glut (unlike chapman dude) - and it you admit there is a glut - do you think you are doing anything to help it - meaning enough to offset yet another schools contribution to more unemployed Rph's?
 
PRX2021 said:
LOL! Isn't that because you're not accredited yet!
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You are avoiding the issue. We are on the same pathway of accreditation as any new school. The issue is: is maintaining high class sizes in state schools the best use of our tax dollars? If in fact you are worried about a glut, That should be a greater concern than schools that are not taking tax dollars now or in the foreseeable future
 
Dred Pirate said:
@LarkinpharmD You say this - but as soon as your students are eligible for student loans are you going to refuse to accept federal dollars? If not - then this post is complete hypocrisy - you will line up to take the $$ for you and your students.


in regards to your previous reply to me:
The issue is that the role of the pharmacist needs to evolve. This requires advocacy and fresh thinking. There is Federal and State legislation currently being considered that could transform that. We also need more residency program opportunities, especially in specialties.
The schools responsible for the glut are the established schools, some of which are graduating 300 pharmacists every year at multiple campuses. The glut was not created by a school that will graduate 60 pharmacists in 2019.

1. This "fresh thinking" has been going around for decades - it just changes it name over the years -there is the ability to make small changes, slowly it is happening, but opening an entire new school to do this? bull crap - you can do it at another school - you will spend more of your time building your school (and cashing the private tuition checks) to actually do much in this realm.

2. The glut starts one school at a time - no single person or school contributes to it - you at least realize there is a glut (unlike chapman dude) - and it you admit there is a glut - do you think you are doing anything to help it - meaning enough to offset yet another schools contribution to more unemployed Rph's?
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Federal dollars are one thing (at least those get paid back by students), but State Schools take a lot more than Federal student loan dollars. They take millions of dollars in STATE money to support continued high enrollments that have been going on for decades and are responsible for the glut in the first place. Then they conveniently complain when a new school opens up. It's nothing more than turf protection if you ask me. Overpaid State employees with a fat State budget who have been taking State dollars for decades while contributing to the glut they are now complaining about. Government is not the solution.
 
These are just self-serving justifications, like PBMs justifying their non-value in the chain of health-care financing.

The vast majority of programs with ridiculous enrollments are associated with private schools that do take federal student loan money. Most of the 0-6 programs, UoP, USC, retail mills like Roseman (where did your dean come from again?), LECOM, Midwestern. I don't think anyone is claiming that UF, A&M, LECOM, and Nova aren't contributing to the problem.
 
LarkinpharmD said:
Federal dollars are one thing (at least those get paid back by students), but State Schools take a lot more than Federal student loan dollars. They take millions of dollars in STATE money to support continued high enrollments that have been going on for decades and are responsible for the glut in the first place. Then they conveniently complain when a new school opens up. It's nothing more than turf protection if you ask me. Overpaid State employees with a fat State budget who have been taking State dollars for decades while contributing to the glut they are now complaining about. Government is not the solution.
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you continue to talk out of both sides of your mouth and refuse to answer the question.

You said you don't take federal dollars - I will be direct - will you continue to NOT take federal dollars after you receive accreditation?

I am not from Florida- and zero affiliation with those schools - I considered moving there but say the saturation and how I would take a 20% pay cut to have a similar job.

So - another direct question - do you feel you new enrollment numbers will contribute to the pharmacy saturation in Florida?
 
Sine Cura said:
These are just self-serving justifications, like PBMs justifying their non-value in the chain of health-care financing.

The vast majority of programs with ridiculous enrollments are associated with private schools that do take federal student loan money. Most of the 0-6 programs, UoP, USC, retail mills like Roseman (where did your dean come from again?), LECOM, Midwestern. I don't think anyone is claiming that UF, A&M, LECOM, and Nova aren't contributing to the problem.
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Fortunately time will tell. Thank God this is the United States of America and we have the freedom to start our College of Pharmacy under the current rules. If you have a bone to pick with your glut arguments maybe you should have been exercising your rights with ACPE and with CIE about limiting new schools. The podiatrists got together and stopped new schools years ago. If pharmacists have a problem with new schools the best way to address it is by getting involved and make the changes necessary to address the issue. Just complaining on a forum and harrassing students from new schools for expressing their rights for free speech about their reasons for choosing Larkin, with lies about being mills is hypocritical and lacks courage. Maybe you guys lack the leadership necessary and you should dig deep and find the courage to stand for your beliefs in real life. Being a 7 year SDN member and using it as forum to attack students from new schools is cowardice.
But the bottom line is how can the State supported schools and I mean SUPPORTED justify maintaining their current enrollment levels while at the same time complaining about new schools? By the way our Dean started at UF, and has worked at NSU, LECOM and other schools.
 
Dred Pirate said:
you continue to talk out of both sides of your mouth and refuse to answer the question.

You said you don't take federal dollars - I will be direct - will you continue to NOT take federal dollars after you receive accreditation?

I am not from Florida- and zero affiliation with those schools - I considered moving there but say the saturation and how I would take a 20% pay cut to have a similar job.

So - another direct question - do you feel you new enrollment numbers will contribute to the pharmacy saturation in Florida?
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To answer your questions I assume our school will accept federal loans when the time comes. That's different from being fully subsidized by the State. Federal dollars are loans that are paid back by students. They are not subsidy.
Our enrollment numbers are so low that they can't possibility make a significant dent on anything. On the contrary we feel we need new thinking about expanding the role of the pharmacist and we plan to make significant contributions to the profession. Time will tell, discouraging us is not going to work. We are not going to quit, but we are open to collaborating with other schools and other stakeholders about expanding the role of the pharmacist, which is the only thing that will address glut issues.
 
LarkinpharmD said:
To answer your questions I assume our school will accept federal loans when the time comes. That's different from being fully subsidized by the State. Federal dollars are loans that are paid back by students. They are not subsidy.
Our enrollment numbers are so low that they can't possibility make a significant dent on anything. On the contrary we feel we need new thinking about expanding the role of the pharmacist and we plan to make significant contributions to the profession. Time will tell, discouraging us is not going to work. We are not going to quit, but we are open to collaborating with other schools and other stakeholders about expanding the role of the pharmacist, which is the only thing that will address glut issues.
Click to expand...

again - you are being hypocritical and not addressing my concern completely.

And these school are not COMPLETELY supported by state tax dollars - last I checked - there is a still a substantial tuition associated with it.

You said earlier: We talk about student loan burden, but at least Larkin students are paying their own way. Our loan burden is ours and our families. We are not asking anyone to pay it for us. We are not taking money from the State or Feds.

We all know there are various ways for student loans to be forgiven - so do not say they are paying their own way with zero help.

You are going back to the "low enrollment numbers" - Yes or No - is adding 60 more grads a year going to make the RPh surplus greater or less? Simple question? It is just like was stated earlier - you can clean up the world without starting to pick up one piece of trash at a time.
 
Dred Pirate said:
again - you are being hypocritical and not addressing my concern completely.

And these school are not COMPLETELY supported by state tax dollars - last I checked - there is a still a substantial tuition associated with it.

You said earlier: We talk about student loan burden, but at least Larkin students are paying their own way. Our loan burden is ours and our families. We are not asking anyone to pay it for us. We are not taking money from the State or Feds.

We all know there are various ways for student loans to be forgiven - so do not say they are paying their own way with zero help.

You are going back to the "low enrollment numbers" - Yes or No - is adding 60 more grads a year going to make the RPh surplus greater or less? Simple question? It is just like was stated earlier - you can clean up the world without starting to pick up one piece of trash at a time.
Click to expand...
No, for the reasons I already pointed out before. 60 new graduates in 2019 is not the reason for the current glut. We bring a significantly more diverse student (80% minorities) than even State schools.
You seem very negative about being a pharmacist. Maybe you should consider a career change.
 
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