Learning disabilities and med school

[Anathema]

Have there been instances where people with learning disabilities have been able to get into med school?

I've read about people with obvious disabilities (blindess etc) but learning disabilities seems to have a range of how severe it can be. I'm thinking more along the realms of ADHD, inability to focus/take tests and such. Do med schools accommodate for such people or are they screened out of the process entirely if they find out?

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[Bluto385]

Have there been instances where people with learning disabilities have been able to get into med school?

I've read about people with obvious disabilities (blindess etc) but learning disabilities seems to have a range of how severe it can be. I'm thinking more along the realms of ADHD, inability to focus/take tests and such. Do med schools accommodate for such people or are they screened out of the process entirely if they find out?

Not sure. I just know that I would never want someone with a chronically short attention span attempt a major procedure on me.

 

[Anathema]

Depending on the type of disability some people can find ways to overcome them like slower learning or extreme repetition. I've always wondered if these accommodation or help has been enough for them to keep up with everyone and operate fine.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Well there are two things that can happen... Either the school can have an idea of it, or not. Some people get accomodations for the MCAT, and the exam will be marked as being taken under "special circumstances." I do not not know if the ADCOMs will have the exact details of the circumstances or if you will need to explain them. I heard that qualifying for MCAT accomodations is ridiculously hard, unlike the ACT which was relatively easy to do and the test was not flagged. If you are currently using medications for ADHD and do not qualify for special testing conditions, then I do not think the schools will have to know about this.

I heard that using ADHD as an excuse for bad grades is a very bad idea, as was the general consensus in past threads. Don't forget that some people still think it is a bogus diagnosis anyhow. So if you function well on stimulants, your best bet is to keep it on the down-low.

I do not care if my physicians use stimulants or not as long as they can do their job effectively. I knowa few fellow students who are using ADHD medications.

 

[deleted303591]

ADHD medication does not compensate for the ability to process information (processing deficit), contrary to popular belief.

 

[linebacker57]

People with learning disabilities can do well in med school, and medicine is such a varied field, that there are some specialties that ADHD people do very well in, mainly procedural specialties, such as emergency medicine, or surgery, or rads. The thing is you have to get into med school first. Ideally, med schools should have no idea of your learning disabilities for two reasons, no one is going to let you into medschool with subpar grades/scores because you had ADHD, secondly, the admissions decisions is made by humans, and humans are subject to conscious and subconscious bias, so why let anything potentially color that bias. That being said, once you are in med school, they will accomidate you for testing during the first two years, assuming you had that in undergraduate

 

[Gauss44]

Have there been instances where people with learning disabilities have been able to get into med school?

I've read about people with obvious disabilities (blindess etc) but learning disabilities seems to have a range of how severe it can be. I'm thinking more along the realms of ADHD, inability to focus/take tests and such. Do med schools accommodate for such people or are they screened out of the process entirely if they find out?

1. Don't let any stranger, who is unfamiliar with your* situation, tell you that you unequivocally cannot be a doctor. That sort of judgement is ignorance. Listen to those who are supportive of you and informed about you.

2. Yes you* can become a doctor - if you can perform the required tasks, medical school, mcat, etc., well with reasonable accommodation. All US schools, businesses, etc. are legally required to provide reasonable accommodations to disabled people. There are plenty of doctors who are in wheelchairs, have controlled mental illnesses, etc. (You might even find a scholarship for your condition. Not only do you* deserve a fair chance, but the more people with disabilities in the medical profession, the more tolerant and educated the profession as a whole becomes, regarding disabilities.)

3. It can be a pain in the butt or nearly impossible to get accommodated. You* will have to prove your condition is worthy of accommodations, that you problem fits the definition of "disability," and that your accommodation is "reasonable." You might have to hire an attorney, and fill out enormous amounts of paperwork to be considered for accommodation in the first place. You might have those tasks on top of any coursework.

Here's what I had to say previously (end of thread): http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=916323&highlight=disability

*This acknowledges the assumption that you are asking for yourself.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Have there been instances where people with learning disabilities have been able to get into med school?

I've read about people with obvious disabilities (blindess etc) but learning disabilities seems to have a range of how severe it can be. I'm thinking more along the realms of ADHD, inability to focus/take tests and such. Do med schools accommodate for such people or are they screened out of the process entirely if they find out?

1. Don't let any stranger, who is unfamiliar with your* situation, tell you that you unequivocally cannot be a doctor. That sort of judgement is ignorance. Listen to those who are supportive of you and informed about you.

2. Yes you* can become a doctor - if you can perform the required tasks, medical school, mcat, etc., well with reasonable accommodation. All US schools, businesses, etc. are legally required to provide reasonable accommodations to disabled people. There are plenty of doctors who are in wheelchairs, have controlled mental illnesses, etc. (You might even find a scholarship for your condition. Not only do you* deserve a fair chance, but the more people with disabilities in the medical profession, the more tolerant and educated the profession as a whole becomes, regarding disabilities.)

3. It can be a pain in the butt or nearly impossible to get accommodated. You* will have to prove your condition is worthy of accommodations, that you problem fits the definition of "disability," and that your accommodation is "reasonable." You might have to hire an attorney, and fill out enormous amounts of paperwork to be considered for accommodation in the first place. You might have those tasks on top of any coursework.

Here's what I had to say previously (end of thread): http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=916323&highlight=disability

*This acknowledges the assumption that you are asking for yourself.

+1000

OP LISTEN TO THIS PERSON!

Learning disabilities are not viewed well by some adcoms but other are fine with it. The main thing is you are managing it! If it ever comes up in an interview make sure you state that you have understood about your condition and keeping it under control. However, do not delve into it and use it as an excuse for your under performance. If you need to talk about it during an interview, state it then brush it to the side.


As for accommodation, it is easier to get accommodations for college classes (including medical school) than for national exams. I would estimate a 90% grantee that you will be accommodated for medical school as long as you have legitimate paper work (better to get it from a pyschologist than physician).

Remember that national exams are much harder. Accommodations get more and more difficult as you go up the examination ladder. The SAT and ACT are easier to get accommodations because it is a test of knowledge rather than speed of recall. However, the MCAT is difficult because it is both a test of knowledge and speed of recall. The most insane to get it for is the USMLE (those punks really know how to play the law system when it comes to lawsuits). The reason for this is the same as the MCAT.

The way ADA works is to accomodate people to the point of being to work along the "normal population." Once you get into medical school or law school you are not apart of the "normal population." Thus it is easier for examiners such as the USMLE and BAR to deny people accommodations. The excuse they use is "well this person got into medical/law school so he/she has the academic capability. Thus does not need the accommodations."

If you need the accommodations, get them. There will be a point where you may not be awarded it anymore but don't worry about it till that point. You want to be a doctor and this is your dream. Do what it takes to accomplish it.

Here is another true story a while back Temple medical school admitted a blind student. This blind student completed medical school and then became a physchiatrist. Well, of course everyone here will tell me this is a rare case (no kidding!), the main thing is it is possible. I have quite a few friends diagnose with ADHD and are doing fine in medical school.

Don't be deterred from the negativity of LD or other disabilities. You want to be a doctor, go for it!!!

 

[Anathema]

HOLD UP!

First off, thanks for all the great responses everyone. Second, this wasn't directly about me but about a close friend who got accepted but also was recently evaluated for having a learning disability but I personally think would make a great doctor.

Their main concern was not being able to keep up with other med students in general and being told to leave for doing poorly. They recently started looking through SDN and saw some med students question their own abilities which made them get worried so I thought I'd open a thread for them. I haven't shown them your advice and thoughts on it but I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

 

[deleted303591]

Has your friend considered going to vocational rehabilitation?

Also, has your friend considered using assistive technology for reading books and the internet? (vocational rehabilitation will often pay for it)

I have a physical disability (a rare autoimmune neurological disease) which was causing my "ADHD", which I do not have now that I have been diagnosed with this disorder. My disability effects my ability to pay attention, my ability for my eyes to track effectively, among other things.

I use bookshare , on my computer, iPad, and iPhone. If you have a disability that affects your ability to read print effectively, you can get access to 176,000 books, any textbook for school that you need, and periodicals (such as the New York Times, The Economist, The New Yorker) for $50 a year.

In fact, I told bookshare that I needed a textbook for my electrical engineering course next semester, and they purchased the book, scanned it, and had somebody digitize the text at no additional cost. The book that they scanned for me can be viewed here.

Anyways, they give you free software so that the text can be read out loud by a text to speech engine on your PC and Mac. It works great.

On the iPad and iPhone (this works better than using a computer), you can get an App that accesses Bookshare and reads your books out loud, called Read2Go, for $20. The software can be customized highly, with different reading speeds, font sizes and colors, background colors, and voices. It even uses multi-modal highlighting. Multi-modal highlighting is where the sentence being read out loud is highlighted in one color (yellow-but can be customized) while the word being read out loud is highlighted in green (green-but it can be customized.

Your friend just needs to get these two forms signed, if he or she qualifies. Individual Membership Agreement

Individual Proof of Disability

Another option for doing things such as reading the web, powerpoints, or PDFs out loud is using Kurzweil 3000 and Read and Write Gold, which both have PC and Mac versions.

 

[45408]

Have there been instances where people with learning disabilities have been able to get into med school?

I've read about people with obvious disabilities (blindess etc) but learning disabilities seems to have a range of how severe it can be. I'm thinking more along the realms of ADHD, inability to focus/take tests and such. Do med schools accommodate for such people or are they screened out of the process entirely if they find out?

If you have an inability to focus and take tests, you won't/shouldn't become a physician, but of course there are people on the spectrum of learning disabilities who have become physicians. Out of 200 people in my class, as far as I could tell, no one had special accommodations, and we all took our tests in the same rooms with the same time constraints. I would not expect much/any accommodation on testing procedure in med school, as the likelihood that you will get any accommodations for your USMLE or boards certification exams are quite slim.

People with learning disabilities can do well in med school, and medicine is such a varied field, that there are some specialties that ADHD people do very well in, mainly procedural specialties, such as emergency medicine, or surgery, or rads. The thing is you have to get into med school first.

Only one of those is a procedural specialty. EM and rads will do some procedures, depending on your practice, but you cited three extremely different specialties.

Ideally, med schools should have no idea of your learning disabilities for two reasons, no one is going to let you into medschool with subpar grades/scores because you had ADHD, secondly, the admissions decisions is made by humans, and humans are subject to conscious and subconscious bias, so why let anything potentially color that bias. That being said, once you are in med school, they will accomidate you for testing during the first two years, assuming you had that in undergraduate

Do you know anyone who had accommodations, and what did they entail?

Learning disabilities are not viewed well by some adcoms but other are fine with it. The main thing is you are managing it! If it ever comes up in an interview make sure you state that you have understood about your condition and keeping it under control. However, do not delve into it and use it as an excuse for your under performance. If you need to talk about it during an interview, state it then brush it to the side.

The main issue is not the disability - it's your performance. If you can perform well despite a learning disability, no one will care. If you haven't performed well, then the reason why is not really important.

 

[deleted303591]

If you have an inability to focus and take tests, you won't/shouldn't become a physician, but of course there are people on the spectrum of learning disabilities who have become physicians. Out of 200 people in my class, as far as I could tell, no one had special accommodations, and we all took our tests in the same rooms with the same time constraints. I would not expect much/any accommodation on testing procedure in med school, as the likelihood that you will get any accommodations for your USMLE or boards certification exams are quite slim.

Accommodations are supposed to be confidential. Of course you would not know who would have accommodations.

Plus, what is disabled supposed to look like?

 

[45408]

Accommodations are supposed to be confidential. Of course you would not know who would have accommodations.

If everyone is taking a test on paper tests that were passed out at random in a large open room with the same time constraints (time's up, put down your pencils), then it is safe to say that no one was getting special testing conditions.

If they were graded on a different curve, then no, I wouldn't know that, but why would the school do that and how would that be a reasonable accommodation?

Again, do you know of specific accommodations made in medical school for a learning disability and what are they?

Plus, what is disabled supposed to look like?

Straw man. I was discussing testing conditions, not specific disabilities.

 

[eagles22]

If everyone is taking a test on paper tests that were passed out at random in a large open room with the same time constraints (time's up, put down your pencils), then it is safe to say that no one was getting special testing conditions.

If they were graded on a different curve, then no, I wouldn't know that, but why would the school do that and how would that be a reasonable accommodation?

Again, do you know of specific accommodations made in medical school for a learning disability and what are they?


Straw man. I was discussing testing conditions, not specific disabilities.

I know for a fact that some people in medical school do take the test under separate timing conditions in a separate area/room so confidentiality is concealed. They are graded under the same scale, but given more time to take the test. However, I doubt these people will be accommodated for the boards.

 

[deleted303591]

If everyone is taking a test on paper tests that were passed out at random in a large open room with the same time constraints (time's up, put down your pencils), then it is safe to say that no one was getting special testing conditions.

If they were graded on a different curve, then no, I wouldn't know that, but why would the school do that and how would that be a reasonable accommodation?

Again, do you know of specific accommodations made in medical school for a learning disability and what are they?

There is no way of knowing for sure, since there is confidentiality issues.

It is illegal to grade students with disabilities on a different curve (either in a positive or negative way)

Usually the specific accommodations for individuals with disabilities in medical school are not disclosed due to confidentiality issues and many universities do not disclose them on their websites. However, examination accommodations are not unheard of. http://www.bcm.edu/osa/handbook/?PMID=7616

I hope that I will get to a point where I do not need accommodations on exams.... I mean, my disease is not degenerative (fortunately) and it is potentially reversible. My disease does cause a reversible form of cognitive impairment. It is really bad to live with.

 

[deleted303591]

However, I doubt these people will be accommodated for the boards.

Agreed.

 

[JoshuaGuit]

Well there are two things that can happen... Either the school can have an idea of it, or not. Some people get accomodations for the MCAT, and the exam will be marked as being taken under "special circumstances." I do not not know if the ADCOMs will have the exact details of the circumstances or if you will need to explain them. I heard that qualifying for MCAT accomodations is ridiculously hard, unlike the ACT which was relatively easy to do and the test was not flagged. If you are currently using medications for ADHD and do not qualify for special testing conditions, then I do not think the schools will have to know about this.

I heard that using ADHD as an excuse for bad grades is a very bad idea, as was the general consensus in past threads. Don't forget that some people still think it is a bogus diagnosis anyhow. So if you function well on stimulants, your best bet is to keep it on the down-low.

I do not care if my physicians use stimulants or not as long as they can do their job effectively. I knowa few fellow students who are using ADHD medications.

Just to follow up on this, it actually isn't very hard to get the accommodations--- All you need is a doctors note. Whether you want them or not is the real question.

They are relatively ridiculous though with testing conditions. I had to get a doctors note to certify that yes, I indeed do have an ostomy and was not trying to hide anything when I went in to take the test. I was very relieved that there was no tick next to my name for accommodations simply because of that though.

 

[NickNaylor]

If you are able to make it through med school without extensive accommodation regardless of whatever learning disabilities you might have, you have nothing to worry about.

I agree with Prowler in that you are potentially headed for problems if you are expecting/need extensive accommodations. Please note that this is not meant to be demeaning to those that need them. If you want to be a physician you should pursue that goal as far as you possibly can. However, there will come a point where people are just going to expect you to perform in whatever situation you might find yourself in. Whether that happens at step 1 or when you become an attending is somewhat irrelevant. If you are providing poor care or a burden to your team, you will be seen as a liability. In the real world people don't want to do more work to deal with your needs - even if they're legitimate.

I know this is harsh, but that's the reality. Of course some people are more understanding than others. However you're in for a bad time if you expect to receive special accommodations throughout the duration of your training and career. At the end of the day you're expected to fulfill your duties and obligations. If you have conditions that might inhibit that, then you should understand that you will likely be in for an uphill battle and should hope that you encounter people that are understanding and sympathetic of your situation.

(sent from my phone)

 

[deleted303591]

If you are able to make it through med school without extensive accommodation regardless of whatever learning disabilities you might have, you have nothing to worry about.

I agree with Prowler in that you are potentially headed for problems if you are expecting/need extensive accommodations. Please note that this is not meant to be demeaning to those that need them. If you want to be a physician you should pursue that goal as far as you possibly can. However, there will come a point where people are just going to expect you to perform in whatever situation you might find yourself in. Whether that happens at step 1 or when you become an attending is somewhat irrelevant. If you are providing poor care or a burden to your team, you will be seen as a liability. In the real world people don't want to do more work to deal with your needs - even if they're legitimate.

I know this is harsh, but that's the reality. Of course some people are more understanding than others. However you're in for a bad time if you expect to receive special accommodations throughout the duration of your training and career. At the end of the day you're expected to fulfill your duties and obligations. If you have conditions that might inhibit that, then you should understand that you will likely be in for an uphill battle and should hope that you encounter people that are understanding and sympathetic of your situation.

(sent from my phone)

Not harsh.

It is better to know in advance to prepare for these things. In my case (technically I do not have a learning disability), I cannot really miss class.

The process of overcoming these issues starts at the university level.