Leave of absence after M2

[Anonymous2399]

Hi I’m a M2 at a unranked MD school. I’ve passed all of my classes and am in the 3rd percentile of my class. I had a really hard first year and bad mental health problems. I realized that I needed to get sober. I am a year sober and have completed my second year. But my grades dropped since I got sober and went from the 2nd quartile and 3rd quartile. I thought I was doing well. But I took my schools CBSE and I got a 51. I am still only in the low 50s. I don’t want to fail Step 1. But I only have until mid June to take the test. Should I take a leave of absence? I don’t want anything competitive so I don’t think it would tank my applications. Also it would give me more time to spend time with my dad whose health is declining.

I mean at the end of the day I don’t want to risk failing step 1. Especially since it’s P/F and I wouldn’t be able to super score on Step 1 the second time if I did fail the first time.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

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[IMGASMD]

It’s a marathon not a sprint. Get yourself to a better place. If you need to take time off, it is NBD. Really. I certainly think if you are not ready and not pass the first time, it will be even more stressful. It may push you back to alcohol (?)

Good luck.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Im not too sure about the ins and outs of LOAs but just wanted to wish you the best of luck in your pursuit of sobriety. It’s not easy, but it is possible!

 

[kelminak]

Does your school have a student success office? They can set you up with a study plan you can follow without having to figure it out yourself. They're not "amazing" or anything, but I would get outside help.

 

[Anonymous2399]

I already asked academic success and they said it’s my responsibility to make a schedule. 38% of my class got below the 59 we needed to be cleared to take Step 1. And there is only 2 academic advisors between the 60 of us who failed. So they said they don’t have time to make us individual study plans. I have gotten a private tutor though to help and am following a plan they made.

 

[efle]

my grades dropped since I got sober

But yeah, you should plan to take a leave of absence. You cannot be sure you will go from a 150 to reliably Pass/195+ in just four weeks.

Also, don't beat yourself up too much, if you are at a US MD school and there are 60 people in your class that are also failing/unprepared for Step 1, your school is the problem.

Time to put your head down and do your own thing with UWorld, Pathoma, Sketchy, and First Aid

 

[Anonymous2399]

Well it’s good to know it might not be me. They also said that they could make me retake the 2nd year over again. But there is nothing in their handbook that says if I fail the CBSE I have to remediate the year. Should I get my ducks in a row to make sure this doesn’t happen? I mean I passed all of my classes in M1 and M2, and never got below a 75.

 

[Goro]

Hi I’m a M2 at a unranked MD school. I’ve passed all of my classes and am in the 3rd percentile of my class. I had a really hard first year and bad mental health problems. I realized that I needed to get sober. I am a year sober and have completed my second year. But my grades dropped since I got sober and went from the 2nd quartile and 3rd quartile. I thought I was doing well. But I took my schools CBSE and I got a 51. I am still only in the low 50s. I don’t want to fail Step 1. But I only have until mid June to take the test. Should I take a leave of absence? I don’t want anything competitive so I don’t think it would tank my applications. Also it would give me more time to spend time with my dad whose health is declining.

I mean at the end of the day I don’t want to risk failing step 1. Especially since it’s P/F and I wouldn’t be able to super score on Step 1 the second time if I did fail the first time.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Go and heal and then come back stronger

 

[Billiam95]

Well it’s good to know it might not be me. They also said that they could make me retake the 2nd year over again. But there is nothing in their handbook that says if I fail the CBSE I have to remediate the year. Should I get my ducks in a row to make sure this doesn’t happen? I mean I passed all of my classes in M1 and M2, and never got below a 75.

I've never heard of having to repeat MS2 for a failed/delayed step, only having to delay MS3. That's whack.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Wouldn’t failing step be a major red flag for residency though, even if it doesn’t require delaying school?

 

[Anonymous2399]

Yes failing step would be a huge red flag. Which is why I am hoping if it comes down to the wire I can just take a LOA and don’t have to repeat M2 classes which didn’t even help me prepare in the first place.

 

[efle]

Yeah I personally would take an entire extra year before I would risk a failed step 1

You really only need to ask for 2-3 months though. Might not even need a leave, if they can list something like an independent study/dedicated block for you.

 

[Billiam95]

Yes failing step would be a huge red flag. Which is why I am hoping if it comes down to the wire I can just take a LOA and don’t have to repeat M2 classes which didn’t even help me prepare in the first place.

What has your school done for students in your situation in the past? At my school ( and I think this is pretty universal as far as I know), anyone who fails or doesn't sit for step is given an LOA, then rejoins rotations the following January or July. This happens just about every year here, so I would be surprised if your school didn't have some game plan for yall other than 'retake MS2,' which seems absolutely insane.

 

[Anonymous2399]

So if I fail the next CBSE which I am required to take. I have to go to an academic probation committee. And they get to decide whether I take a LOA or if I have to repeat the year. But my grades in the spring semester were around 78s. So it’s not like my grades were abysmal.
Also if 60 people are in the same place I am, it’s not like they can all demand we all re take M2, my school does not have the resources for that.

 

[efle]

Also if 60 people are in the same place I am, it’s not like they can all demand we all re take M2

Yeah, strength in numbers for sure. Aren't most US MD classes in the range of 100-250 people? You had a quarter, or even half of your class that just failed this CBSE a few weeks out from test day? Any MS3-4 students tell you if their years were different?

 

[Anonymous2399]

My class had the new curriculum which was problem based learning and mandatory classes almost every day. The M3s last year had independent study and mostly online classes that were not mandatory. Last year only 15% did not pass. I think some people took a LOA.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Even 15% sounds high to me

Seems like the school needs to evaluate things if that many are failing

 

[Billiam95]

Mine had one year of >10% failing a few years ago that lead to some higher level shake up and curriculum changes (still not enough but better).

 

[Anonymous2399]

Ya we just got off ACGME probation. And they said the curriculum changes would decrease the number failing. Idk at this point

 

[IMGASMD]

OP, you should be focus on what you should do, or can do. Not be distracted with what’s going on with your school. It’s much easier to pay attention to they problems and forget what YOU need to do RIGHT NOW.

 

[efle]

Yea your school goofed and should be very concerned about their accreditation if they were just on probation and are about to force 25-50% of the class to fail boards. That is insane. Like I said before I think it's time to ignore anything school curriculum related and start doing 10 hours/day of UFAPS

 

[Monkitty]

Take the LOA if you think it will help your well being. I took a 1 year LOA for health/personal reasons and it was never an issue come Match time. Residency programs know that schools have protocols in place to decide what dictates "health/personal" reasons and they don't (or shouldn't) stick their nose in it questioning it.

Folks in my class took LOAs for academic reasons, deaths in the family, and for traumatic stuff that happened on rotations. Programs know that life happens and understand if you need to take time for yourself and to make sure your in the best mind for your patients. If they don't have this attitude I would recommend avoiding them.

Also, good luck with your continued sobriety. Your health is the most important thing, everything else flows from it. It's what we try to teach our patients, so don't forget it when it comes to yourself.

 

[Anonymous2399]

So I took my CBSE remediation and failed. I’ll be put on a LOA for academic reasons. I still have not failed any classes and have no remediations. Could I still match neurology, PMR, or family medicine. If I take a LOA and pass Step 1.

 

[Anonymous2399]

I just don’t want my residency chances to be gone or only have the options of malignant programs. Med school has already ruined my mental health. Idk what I would do if I have to go to a work horse residency.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

As far as I understand from other posts on this site, your chances would be much worse if you failed step 1 than if you took a LOA

 

[Anonymous2399]

I know I just don’t wanna have to go to a malignant residency program. I have already been called racial slurs and had my car vandalized by my classmate. I can’t go through that for another 6 years. I just want to practice medicine in a safe space where I can help people but be respected to some degree.

 

[Anonymous2399]

Like would it be better to drop out and go do PA. I have a 3.95 undergrad GPA and got in the 90th percentile on the GRE.

 

[Monkitty]

I'm sorry to hear about not passing your CBSE remediation and the forced LOA. However it sounds like the LOA might be very benefiicial for you. Again, I have not heard of anyone getting asked about their LOA during residency (and I know several people who have had one - including myself) so I would not worry about that. I would make sure though that you can pass STEP 1.

As for the other things you mentioned, I would really recommend reporting those incidents to your school if you haven't and feel comfortable doing so. It is an easy case to make that those incidents have impacted your academic performance and since you are being put on a forced LOA you should document those incidents (even if you don't officially report them, emailing an advisor or someone about them) in case the school ever tries steps such as dismissal.

I was very apprehensive at first taking a LOA but it was the best decision I made in medical school. Use this time to improve yourself, not just academically but your own health and well-being as well. Hopefully your school's academic advising department can help you with studying for the STEP 1 and you may want to consider talking to someone about your situation. I probably would not have graduated if I hadn't been able to talk to our student wellness person during my LOA.

Best of luck.

 

[Billiam95]

I know I just don’t wanna have to go to a malignant residency program. I have already been called racial slurs and had my car vandalized by my classmate. I can’t go through that for another 6 years. I just want to practice medicine in a safe space where I can help people but be respected to some degree.

I've had friends match high on their rank list at great programs in nice cities after taking an step-related LOA. They're all MDs, very happy in their training, and will soon be making attending money.

 

[Anonymous2399]

Would I also be okay during residency applications when I apply to talk about how I lost 11 family and friends in 2 years. As well as having to help my sick father who’s been in and out of the ICU the last 2 years (4 times). Like would anyone give me sympathy for that or would I look like a cry baby?
Thanks for the help guys. I really appreciate it!

 

[efle]

I lost 11 family and friends in 2 years. As well as having to help my sick father who’s been in and out of the ICU the last 2 years (4 times)

Anyone anywhere will understand this would have an impact on you, not crybaby at all to state plainly like this

 

[operaman]

Would I also be okay during residency applications when I apply to talk about how I lost 11 family and friends in 2 years. As well as having to help my sick father who’s been in and out of the ICU the last 2 years (4 times). Like would anyone give me sympathy for that or would I look like a cry baby?
Thanks for the help guys. I really appreciate it!

All depends on how you frame it. If it’s framed as an excuse, then it means very little. If you come back and do well on boards and do well on the wards, then it could be framed as things you overcame on your way to triumph.

When evaluating a resident applicant, we care about how good a resident that person will be. What are they going to bring to the team? Do I want to be operating with this human at 3am? I don’t really want excuses for past failures, i want to see that they fixed what was broken and overcame whatever life threw at them. Residency is tough, and I want to know they can handle it be an asset rather than a liability.

All that to say: take the loa and use that time to get yourself together and make a strong showing on step 1. Continue that through rotations and then tell prospective programs how you took a loa to care for some ailing family members and then came back from it more motivated than ever and proceeded to crush every challenge you faced. That’s the kind of person everyone wants to train.

 

[Anonymous2399]

Hi everyone. Just wanted to update that I passed Step 1 on my first try. I am now working in a research lab until I go back for my M3 year!

 

[efle]

Hi everyone. Just wanted to update that I passed Step 1 on my first try. I am now working in a research lab until I go back for my M3 year!

Congrats! Out of curiosity how'd your class end up doing overall, were there a lot of people taking extended dedicated or failing the exam?

 

[Anonymous2399]

Yes there are quite a few of us on a LOA. I think like at least 25 -27% of the class that ended M2 is out on one. I just hope they changed things for the current M2 class.

 

[PathNeuroIMorFM]

Yes there are quite a few of us on a LOA. I think like at least 25 -27% of the class that ended M2 is out on one. I just hope they changed things for the current M2 class.

Just curious, did your school allow certain students to delay M3 by 1-2 rotations to have additional time to take Step 1?

If no, then that explains why that % is so high. Our school had a similar proportion of students delay their 1st/2nd rotation. But if yes, that is an absolutely astonishing amount of students.

Either way, speaking also as a LOA student: Congratulations, good luck, and enjoy your LOA! Mine has been a blast so far. I hope you get to spend some time doing fun and fulfilling things.

 

[Anonymous2399]

Just curious, did your school allow certain students to delay M3 by 1-2 rotations to have additional time to take Step 1?

If no, then that explains why that % is so high. Our school had a similar proportion of students delay their 1st/2nd rotation. But if yes, that is an absolutely astonishing amount of students.

Either way, speaking also as a LOA student: Congratulations, good luck, and enjoy your LOA! Mine has been a blast so far. I hope you get to spend some time doing fun and fulfilling things.

So we weren’t able to delay any of our rotations. Some students did get to start M3 with a failed Step (which I thought was weird). But ya its a lot of students, out retention rate is around 70% right now (including students who had to repeat M1 or M2). And nothing in the curriculum has changed drastically so we’ll see how many people move onto next year. Thanks for the well wishes.