Lecom vs. Pcom

[horseradish]

I got into both, and i'm having a really hard time deciding. Pcom's felt like a better fit for the school, but Philadellphia's a long way from home and I'm not a city girl. Lecom's still a drive, but I like the area a lot better, more rural. The school itself didnt' impress me as much as pcom though,with its odd rules.

Anyone have any thoughts or input on the two? I've only got 10 days or so to choose : (

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[scpod]

Anyone have any thoughts or input on the two? I've only got 10 days or so to choose : (

That's easy. "Lecom" has 5 letters and "Pcom" only has 4 letters. 5 beats 4 any day

 

[koennen]

I got into both, and i'm having a really hard time deciding. Pcom's felt like a better fit for the school, but Philadellphia's a long way from home and I'm not a city girl. Lecom's still a drive, but I like the area a lot better, more rural. The school itself didnt' impress me as much as pcom though,with its odd rules.

Anyone have any thoughts or input on the two? I've only got 10 days or so to choose : (

PCOM is one the oldest and one of the most respected osteopathic medical schools in the country. Not to take anything away from LECOM (gets out flame ******ant hat), but in terms of reputation, clinical training, rotations, specialization, PCOM would grade out higher than LECOM in any objective comparison.

With respect to location, that's a decision only you can make. Keep in mind, however, that you're not making a lifetime committment to Philadelphia or Erie. To me, at least, the quality of the school, rotations, residency opportunities, etc. (things that will bring a better return on my investment for many years to come) far outweigh where I spend a few years of my life.

 

[Taus]

just an fyi...pcom isn't in the city.....if you cross the street into montgomery county its about as suburban as it gets...

 

[koennen]

just an fyi...pcom isn't in the city.....if you cross the street into montgomery county its about as suburban as it gets...

True. Some of Philadelphia's ritziest suburbs (collectively referred to as the "Main Line") are only minutes away from campus.

 

[JonnyG]

LECOM was also started by a group of doctors who didnt like how PCOM did things. You can take this many ways. If you doa search you will find a few threads with this exact same title. I think most were posted in the osteo forum though.

 

[Kuba]

LECOM was also started by a group of doctors who didnt like how PCOM did things. You can take this many ways. If you doa search you will find a few threads with this exact same title. I think most were posted in the osteo forum though.

very interesting

 

[Orthodoc40]

PCOM is one the oldest and one of the most respected osteopathic medical schools in the country. Not to take anything away from LECOM (gets out flame ******ant hat), but in terms of reputation, clinical training, rotations, specialization, PCOM would grade out higher than LECOM in any objective comparison.

With respect to location, that's a decision only you can make. Keep in mind, however, that you're not making a lifetime committment to Philadelphia or Erie. To me, at least, the quality of the school, rotations, residency opportunities, etc. (things that will bring a better return on my investment for many years to come) far outweigh where I spend a few years of my life.

These things are true for me too. However,

I got into both, and i'm having a really hard time deciding. Pcom's felt like a better fit for the school, but Philadellphia's a long way from home and I'm not a city girl. Lecom's still a drive, but I like the area a lot better, more rural. The school itself didnt' impress me as much as pcom though,with its odd rules.

Anyone have any thoughts or input on the two? I've only got 10 days or so to choose : (

if you'll be happier at LECOM, you'll do better in school, and so, you should go where you fell you'll succeed.

 

[Kuba]

As far as reputation and academics, I would prob choose PCOM. But there are more factors that may make LECOM the right school for you.

 

[Dr JPH]

Both schools have positive and negative. I know someone who left LECOM after orientation once they got into PCOM last minute. I couldnt be happier at PCOM and Im not so sure I would have had the same experience across the state. PCOM isnt in the city as you think. You can go there for 4 years and never have to actually go into the city, except for a rotation or two.

I see an awful lot of LECOM students coming to PCOM to do rotations and residencies.

I dont know many PCOMers who go to LECOM.

Just an observation.

 

[sddoc]

Lecom'ers don't go to PCOM for rotations. We are affiliated with hospitals in Philadelphia, NYC, Buffalo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Indianapolis making it possible for us to get many experiences from multiple cities. Lecom is a large school with a large number of students. We are required to have affiliations in different cities based on the sheer numbers. The hospitals in Philly belong to Lecom as much as they do to PCOM. Your point just isn't valid... Sorry.

 

[Dr JPH]

Lecom'ers don't go to PCOM for rotations. We are affiliated with hospitals in Philadelphia, NYC, Buffalo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Indianapolis making it possible for us to get many experiences from multiple cities. Lecom is a large school with a large number of students. We are required to have affiliations in different cities based on the sheer numbers. The hospitals in Philly belong to Lecom as much as they do to PCOM. Your point just isn't valid... Sorry.

1) I see one Philadelphia hospital system on this list:

http://www.lecom.edu/lecom/application/rotations.asp

2) Some of the hospitals I'm speaking off AREN'T on that list.

3) You speak to the students and they tell you they are here to do PCOM audition rotations.

5 years worth of observation and experience. Guess I'm wrong.

 

[Kuba]

1) I see one Philadelphia hospital system on this list:

http://www.lecom.edu/lecom/application/rotations.asp

2) Some of the hospitals I'm speaking off AREN'T on that list.

3) You speak to the students and they tell you they are here to do PCOM audition rotations.

5 years worth of observation and experience. Guess I'm wrong.

Isnt that because they are auditioning for the PCOM residencies? And Lecom doesnt have residencies, right? So it would make sense that PCOM students wouldn't go to those hospitals... I mean I realize I dont know much about this, and Im sure you wont hesitate to let me know I am wrong.

 

[Dr JPH]

Isnt that because they are auditioning for the PCOM residencies? And Lecom doesnt have residencies, right? So it would make sense that PCOM students wouldn't go to those hospitals... I mean I realize I dont know much about this, and Im sure you wont hesitate to let me know I am wrong.

One of the major reasons that people do electives is to gain exposure to programs and to "show their face" so to speak.

I'm not saying LECOM has bad rotations. Some of their sites are excellent.

What I am saying is that a good number of LECOM students end up in PCOM rotations every year on their electives to get some face time with our residency programs.

LECOM does indeed have residency programs to the best of my knowledge. I dont know how many they have of their "own" vs how many they are affiliated with in their OPTI.

In the end the decision on which school to choose has to be your own. Good and bad both places as I said before.

I dont want it to sound like I am bashing LECOM and I apologize if I came across that way. It has just been my experience in talking to the LECOM students I have worked with that they are out here to get into PCOM programs because they like what they hear, see, etc. Who knows...maybe PCOMers who do go to LECOM places say the same.

 

[Kuba]

wow, i just checked and they actually have quite a bit of affiliated residencies. Ortho, derm, neuro, lots of big name ones.

 

[Dr JPH]

wow, i just checked and they actually have quite a bit of affiliated residencies. Ortho, derm, neuro, lots of big name ones.

Yep.

Not sure how many of those are their residencies or to what degree their affiliation is.

Many of them are allopathic so maybe there is an agreement for a certain # of spots/year or something.

 

[MaximusD]

Yep.

Not sure how many of those are their residencies or to what degree their affiliation is.

Many of them are allopathic so maybe there is an agreement for a certain # of spots/year or something.

Is "they" PCOM or LECOM. Sorry if I missed something...

Anyway, my vote is for PCOM due to reputation and location above all else. Not to mention I think PCOM's website is less cheesy

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

the rules arent really that weird. it's the same rules as if you had a job. that's all.

 

[Dr JPH]

I went to medical school to AVOID having a job for 4 more years!!

 

[Trevelyan]

the rules arent really that weird. it's the same rules as if you had a job. that's all.

Well, that rule about not being allowed to set foot in that atrium is pretty odd.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

Well, that rule about not being allowed to set foot in that atrium is pretty odd.

oh, they didn't tell me that one! I only head about the dress code (pretty lax for the women) and the absences thing (Which basically just means you call in and let them know if you're missing class that day and why, like you would for a job). They didn't even show us the atrium.

One more thing: I love the santa hat on Brian in your avatar! I honest to God almost named my second born son after Brian. He's my favorite literary character of all time

 

[Dr JPH]

Why would missing class be a big deal?

I hardly went to class during my second year. I learned more reading, collecting notes and studying on my own time.

Labs and similar classes should be mandatory...anything where you need to see and do.

But mandatory lecture?

I think as a medical student you are purchasing a product and its your choice how you use it.

 

[Taus]

would this work?
"I'm really hungover this morning b/c we had our endocrinology final yesterday and I went out to celebrate....therefore I'm sleeping in and will learn the material on my own time"

that being said....i just woke up to get a drink....back to sleep for me....

 

[Dr JPH]

would this work?
"I'm really hungover this morning b/c we had our endocrinology final yesterday and I went out to celebrate....therefore I'm sleeping in and will learn the material on my own time"

that being said....i just woke up to get a drink....back to sleep for me....

Haha.

Exactly.

Or what about the Monday after the superbowl??

Do you need a good reason or just ANY reason?

 

[koennen]

I only head about the dress code (pretty lax for the women) and the absences thing (Which basically just means you call in and let them know if you're missing class that day and why, like you would for a job).

Dress code? Please! Call in with an excuse to miss class? Give me a break! And we'll tell you where you are allowed/not allowed to walk!!! Conjours up memories of elementary/high school. Going $100K + in debt to be treated like a juvenile? Not my idea of professional school. And you have to live in Erie for the pleasure!

And the job analogy fails. In medical school, YOU are paying THEM for the privilege of attending their school. Unlike the employment context, there is no potential disruption to the school's mission by you not attending lectures. What difference does it make whether there are 102 or 105 students in class? You've paid your tution for the semester. The only one who can be potentially hurt by missing lectures is you.

 

[Dunkin'DO]

Yeah, all that silliness - dress code and calling in to miss class - is why I didn't even apply there. Twelve years of that kind of stuff in Catholic school was enough for me!

 

[JonnyG]

They just give us a cell and tissue test the monday after a superbowl........sadly you have to be there for that

Haha.

Exactly.

Or what about the Monday after the superbowl??

Do you need a good reason or just ANY reason?

 

[DO Sigma Nu guy]

They just give us a cell and tissue test the monday after a superbowl........sadly you have to be there for that

I'm not looking forward to that. Maybe they will switch it up for us.

 

[Taus]

I'm not looking forward to that. Maybe they will switch it up for us.

they moved it up an hour for us last year.....still sucked...but better then 9am

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

Dress code? Please! Call in with an excuse to miss class? Give me a break! And we'll tell you where you are allowed/not allowed to walk!!! Conjours up memories of elementary/high school. Going $100K + in debt to be treated like a juvenile? Not my idea of professional school. And you have to live in Erie for the pleasure!

And the job analogy fails. In medical school, YOU are paying THEM for the privilege of attending their school. Unlike the employment context, there is no potential disruption to the school's mission by you not attending lectures. What difference does it make whether there are 102 or 105 students in class? You've paid your tution for the semester. The only one who can be potentially hurt by missing lectures is you.

well the dress code is nothing wild. you just have to dress somewhat professionally. You're in professional school, so why shouldn't you? And calling in when you miss class like you would work isn't a whole lot to ask. My discussion about it with my interviewers indicated the attendance policy was more of an issue in years 3 and 4 when you're off-campus on rotations. The policies only affect your life if you're being a jackass. If you're acting like you should be in the first place, then the policies essentially don't exist. They have an independent study and PBL track if you're someone who learns best on their own. Most people need to be in class to learn. It's not a crazy idea. It's just professional courtesy to let them know you'll be missing class. At my current school we call in if we're missing class. It's common courtesy.

 

[scpod]

Dress code? Please! Call in with an excuse to miss class? Give me a break! And we'll tell you where you are allowed/not allowed to walk!!! Conjours up memories of elementary/high school. Going $100K + in debt to be treated like a juvenile? Not my idea of professional school.

Then we have different ideas of the word "professional". Why shouldn't you be asked to dress like a "professional" if you are going to a "professional" school? Not too long ago Wake Forest University's school of medicine was called the Bowman Gray School of Medicine because of all the money that Bowman Gray contributed. It was renamed a number years ago after it lost millions of dollars in contributions from Gray's ancestors who thought the students dressed more like homeless people than future doctors. Is not following a dress code worth millions? You decide.

 

[mrsalpacino]

Then we have different ideas of the word "professional". Why shouldn't you be asked to dress like a "professional" if you are going to a "professional" school? Not too long ago Wake Forest University's school of medicine was called the Bowman Gray School of Medicine because of all the money that Bowman Gray contributed. It was renamed a number years ago after it lost millions of dollars in contributions from Gray's ancestors who thought the students dressed more like homeless people than future doctors. Is not following a dress code worth millions? You decide.

Here here!

 

[Dr JPH]

well the dress code is nothing wild. you just have to dress somewhat professionally. You're in professional school, so why shouldn't you? And calling in when you miss class like you would work isn't a whole lot to ask. My discussion about it with my interviewers indicated the attendance policy was more of an issue in years 3 and 4 when you're off-campus on rotations. The policies only affect your life if you're being a jackass. If you're acting like you should be in the first place, then the policies essentially don't exist. They have an independent study and PBL track if you're someone who learns best on their own. Most people need to be in class to learn. It's not a crazy idea. It's just professional courtesy to let them know you'll be missing class. At my current school we call in if we're missing class. It's common courtesy.

I disagree with you here.

1. Sitting in class in khakis and a button down shirt wont help me learn.
2. Simply being in class wont necessarily help me learn.
3. Common courtesy to be in class? The profs make the same whether 100 people or 10 people show up, right?
4. "Acting like you should be".

I can act professional, attentive, responsible AND still kick ass in school...and I dont need to wear a tie or be present at a lecture to do so.

So lets say LECOM has some notoriously bad lecturers...every school has at least one, usually more.

I would want to take that 50 minutes and sleep in, read in the library or spend the extra time in the anatomy lab.

I think the good profs should be rewarded with positive attendance and interested students.

You shouldnt be forced to sit through a lecture that you will likely sleep through anyway.

I know youre trying to justify these rules because it seems to be where you are going next year...but if you ask the majority of people I am sure they would wish to do away with it. Anyone who tells you "its not that bad" or "i like the dress code" is either lying or they have said it so many times to prospective students that they actually believe it.

 

[Dr JPH]

Then we have different ideas of the word "professional". Why shouldn't you be asked to dress like a "professional" if you are going to a "professional" school? Not too long ago Wake Forest University's school of medicine was called the Bowman Gray School of Medicine because of all the money that Bowman Gray contributed. It was renamed a number years ago after it lost millions of dollars in contributions from Gray's ancestors who thought the students dressed more like homeless people than future doctors. Is not following a dress code worth millions? You decide.

Pulling money from a school because students didnt dress pretty sounds like a lame scapegoat to me.

"I'm not going to support the future doctors of America because their jeans are too far down their ass."



Weak. Very weak.

 

[scpod]

Pulling money from a school because students didnt dress pretty sounds like a lame scapegoat to me.

"I'm not going to support the future doctors of America because their jeans are too far down their ass."



Weak. Very weak.

You seem to ignore the studies that show that patients tend to have more confidence in a doctor who is well-dressed. It really doesn't matter what YOU think; because patients have shown that THEY want a doctor who both looks and acts the part of a "professional." That includes dress.

 

[Taus]

You seem to ignore the studies that show that patients tend to have more confidence in a doctor who is well-dressed. It really doesn't matter what YOU think; because patients have shown that THEY want a doctor who both looks and acts the part of a "professional." That includes dress.

Did that study include doctors who don't see patients and spend their entire day sitting in a lecture hall or studying in a library?

Common sense dictates that we'll all dress professionaly when its appropriate (ie standardized patients and whenever in the hospital or other clinical situation)....when I go from lecture, to OMM and then to the gym I think common sense dictates that there is no good reason to not wear my gym clothes all day long.

 

[scpod]

Common sense dictates that we'll all dress professionaly when its appropriate....when I go from lecture, to OMM and then to the gym I think common sense dictates that there is no good reason to not wear my gym clothes all day long.

Does it really HURT you to learn how to wear appropriate clothing? Will you be irreversibly damaged if you fail to look like a "professional" before you are actually "forced" to do so? "Common sense" is a line of bull**** in my opinion. You'll never BE a professional until you ACT like a professional. If you want to dress like someone's leftovers untill you actually have to show a little responsibility, then that's your choice.

 

[Taus]

Does it really HURT you to learn how to wear appropriate clothing? Will you be irreversibly damaged if you fail to look like a "professional" before you are actually "forced" to do so? "Common sense" is a line of bull**** in my opinion. You'll never BE a professional until you ACT like a professional. If you want to dress like someone's leftovers untill you actually have to show a little responsibility, then that's your choice.

Come on man...give me a break. Do you really think that b/c I choose to wear shorts and a t-shirt while I sit and study all day that I don't know (and need to learn) how to put a shirt and tie on when I get into clinicals?

 

[bkpa2med]

Honestly these type of threads should be banned because no good can come out of this. Personally I like the dress code and their "rules" apparently that many don't. We should have threads that only students of each school can post on to give the pros and cons, otherwise it clashes between two parties.

Everyone please stop bashing each others school because we all made our choices that suits us best. I am proud that I will be attending LECOM-Erie for the many reasons I put it number one on my list. I know in the end I will be bkpa2med, DO and be able to practice the way that I feel will benefit my patients.

Last but not least we are all professionals and future colleagues so let's keep the peace.

 

[Dr JPH]

If you want to dress like someone's leftovers untill you actually have to show a little responsibility, then that's your choice.

Unless you go to LECOM.

And I dont think jeans and a PCOM hoodie is "someone's leftovers."

Sounds like comfortable clothes I wear while I settle into a library chair and study.

No one is saying that without a dress code people will come to school in pajamas or thongs.

But to say that I cannot be a professional student and wear non-professional attire is absurd.

When I am with a patient I am in a shirt, tie, white coat and nice shoes.

When I study I wear what I am wearing now. Sneakers, jeans and a sweatshirt.

And guess what...they're still letting me graduate in 6 months.

Passed COMLEX I, USMLE I, COMLEX II and all of my rotations without a dress code.

I can get through life without a dress code.

If the school needs to have a dress code to make people look appropriate, then maybe the problem is with the attitude of the students who would otherwise dress INappropriately.

 

[Dr JPH]

Come on man...give me a break. Do you really think that b/c I choose to wear shorts and a t-shirt while I sit and study all day that I don't know (and need to learn) how to put a shirt and tie on when I get into clinicals?

Exactly.

You always dress properly in OMM lab.

 

[Kuba]

I know in the end I will be bkpa2med, DO and be able to practice the way that I feel will benefit my patients..

That's a weird name, dude.

 

[Kuba]

Unless you go to LECOM.

And I dont think jeans and a PCOM hoodie is "someone's leftovers."

Sounds like comfortable clothes I wear while I settle into a library chair and study.

No one is saying that without a dress code people will come to school in pajamas or thongs.

But to say that I cannot be a professional student and wear non-professional attire is absurd.

When I am with a patient I am in a shirt, tie, white coat and nice shoes.

When I study I wear what I am wearing now. Sneakers, jeans and a sweatshirt.

And guess what...they're still letting me graduate in 6 months.

Passed COMLEX I, USMLE I, COMLEX II and all of my rotations without a dress code.

I can get through life without a dress code.

If the school needs to have a dress code to make people look appropriate, then maybe the problem is with the attitude of the students who would otherwise dress INappropriately.

 

[Dr JPH]

shouldnt you be focusing on interviews??

When are you coming to PCOM kuba???

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Unless you go to LECOM.

And I dont think jeans and a PCOM hoodie is "someone's leftovers."

Sounds like comfortable clothes I wear while I settle into a library chair and study.

No one is saying that without a dress code people will come to school in pajamas or thongs.

But to say that I cannot be a professional student and wear non-professional attire is absurd.

When I am with a patient I am in a shirt, tie, white coat and nice shoes.

When I study I wear what I am wearing now. Sneakers, jeans and a sweatshirt.

And guess what...they're still letting me graduate in 6 months.

Passed COMLEX I, USMLE I, COMLEX II and all of my rotations without a dress code.

I can get through life without a dress code.

If the school needs to have a dress code to make people look appropriate, then maybe the problem is with the attitude of the students who would otherwise dress INappropriately.

Especially since casual dress is the norm at virtually every professional school aside from LECOM and a few others. Somehow, we manage to have doctors, lawyers and MBAs who manage to dress appropriately in spite of the fact that they wore jeans every day to class. You don't have to dress up all the time to know how to dress up.

I'm with the PCOMers. I'd find a dress code unacceptable for medical school. Since I attend about 30% of all my classes, I'd also refuse to attend a class with an attendance policy. For lots of you, you'll find that attending class isn't the best use of your time.

 

[Dr JPH]

Especially since casual dress is the norm at virtually every professional school aside from LECOM and a few others. Somehow, we manage to have doctors, lawyers and MBAs who manage to dress appropriately in spite of the fact that they wore jeans every day to class. You don't have to dress up all the time to know how to dress up.

I'm with the PCOMers. I'd find a dress code unacceptable for medical school. Since I attend about 30% of all my classes, I'd also refuse to attend a class with an attendance policy. For lots of you, you'll find that attending class isn't the best use of your time.

Nice to hear from a NON-PCOM and NON-LECOM person...and someone who is actually a MED student, not a premed.

I agree...dressing nice for mandatory class wont make you a better student or a better doctor.

It will just make you on time and looking nice for class...even if you fall asleep.

 

[Kuba]

shouldnt you be focusing on interviews??

When are you coming to PCOM kuba???

I dont foresee many more interviews. And I dont think I will be revisiting PCOM. I didn't like it that much.

 

[Dr JPH]

I dont foresee many more interviews. And I dont think I will be revisiting PCOM. I didn't like it that much.

Good luck with your decision. Any thoughts on where you'll be headed?

 

[scpod]

But to say that I cannot be a professional student and wear non-professional attire is absurd.

In order to be a "professional" you must look, act and dress like a "professional". Since you are not yet a "professional" it is well within your province to dress less than "professional".

Yet, when you choose to become a physician, whether you like it or not, you become a representative of the profession as a whole, even if you have not yet reached the point where you are compelled to dress like it. There comes a time when you have to begin dressing in a professional manor. We differ on what that point is. You seem to think that you need to begin dressing like a professional when you see patients. I feel that you need to begin dressing like a professional when you choose to become a physician.

 

[Dr JPH]

In order to be a "professional" you must look, act and dress like a "professional". Since you are not yet a "professional" it is well within your province to dress less than "professional".

Yet, when you choose to become a physician, whether you like it or not, you become a representative of the profession as a whole, even if you have not yet reached the point where you are compelled to dress like it. There comes a time when you have to begin dressing in a professional manor. We differ on what that point is. You seem to think that you need to begin dressing like a professional when you see patients. I feel that you need to begin dressing like a professional when you choose to become a physician.

I see your point, I really do.

But do you mean to tell me that once you graduate medical school you are never going to dress in anything less than dress pants, shirt and tie?

Of course not.

There isnt a massive changing point in your life when you CLOTHING must make an adjustment.

I feel the adjustment is psychological and emotional. Act professional.

I have seen doctors make rounds wearing jeans and they are still great docs.

What I wear to class, to the library and to study has nothing to do with what kind of attitude I have towards becoming a physician or how I will treat my patients.

I just dont see how simply being in medical school requires certain attire.

And I am SURE there are people at your school who have made the jump to dressing nice, but still act like goofballs (nice word) despite that fact.

Professionalism is a statement of attitude, not clothing.

And to say that in order to be a professional you must dress like it...I disagree completely. Come June I dont see myself wearing different clothes than I wear now...and then I will be a "professional".

scpod: out of curiosity...where are you in your training?