Left Medical Schoool in 2000 and want to reapply. Need advice.

[1Path]

But career changing from a phD track/MD track is one that might be difficult to overcome. You could always say that you found the PhD aspect of it uncompelling and you were still coming on your own, having been naive and 21-22.

I don't think the issue is dropping from a MD/PhD track. It's the 3 Master's degrees, back to back in an MD/PhD program, that's going to be the issue.

I've found that multiple degrees don't hurt for premeds when they are:

1) Acquired over along period of time. I personally think it shows growth.

2) In areas that are related to medicine yet different. I doubt the the average adcom member sees a difference between an MS in Pure Math and an MS in Applied Math. Just to use myself as an example, I have an MS in Chemistry. In 2008, I'll graduate with an MS in Pharmacology. I suppose I could have done an MS in Medicinal Chemistry but to an adcom, it would probably look like 2 Chemistry degrees.

3) Throughout the degree gathering stage, you stay involved in some community activity. Motive is difficult to question when you stay involved in helping others.

I'm quite interested in the intersection of alternative and western medicine. What if I were to get my a degree Oriental Medicine? That would involve science courses, as well as clinical exposure. How would that look? Is interest in alternative care frowned upon?.

With all due respect, you're doing yourself a serious disservice by not staying focused on your goal. If your sincerly want to become an MD, you shouldn't let anyone discourage you nor should you be affected by the difficulty of the journey ahead.

IMHO, you need to decide WHAT you want to do, HOW you want to do it, WHEN you want to do it, and STICK WITH THE PLAN!

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[med_heidelberg]

Do you know any foreign languages? You would be eligible to study in Europe, for example, in Germany, if you demonstrate language proficiency. There are some excellent medical schools here, linked up with research universities (one school is ranked in the top 20 worldwide). Also, German doctors are very well respected in the US. Ive known several to get top residencies at places like Yale and Johns Hopkins. The program is 6 years (includes basic science) and there is no tuition, well aside from the 95 Euro a semester for student fees. Spots are extremely competitive, but they place emphasis on applicants who have worked in other areas that are related to medicine. This is the path I chose and I will most likely return to the US. Just thought I would throw the idea out there.

 

[Math_Guy]

I love this idea!

How do countries like Germany treat international applicants? Are you at a huge disadvantage to get in?

I also heard from a family friend that some schools in the UK are much better than most Ameican medical schools.

 

[Law2Doc]

I also heard from a family friend that some schools in the UK are much better than most Ameican medical schools.

There are good schools in many parts of the world. "Better" tends to depend more on the attitude of the person making the assessment than on the school itself. However if you want to practice in the US, usually the highest percentage path is to go to school in the US. If practicing in the US is not your goal, or the US is not an option for you, then absolutely look into other options.

I would stay away from other degrees in things like oriental medicine. You already have a lot of graduate degrees and getting more would add to the "degree collector", "career student" image you are already sporting. I also wouldn't bother with SMP options both because this is one more masters degree in a long list, and you have already been in at a med school -- these programs are just to let med schools see that you are med-school-worthy. So they address a very different problem than yours.

Talk to some schools, including the one you left and see what they think you should do. If, as njbmd suggested, they say "go fish", then talk to DO schools and look into european and maybe carribean options.

 

[med_heidelberg]

I love this idea!

How do countries like Germany treat international applicants? Are you at a huge disadvantage to get in?

I also heard from a family friend that some schools in the UK are much better than most Ameican medical schools.

No, there is no disadvantage per se. There is a specified quota set aside for foreigners (non EU citizens). There are 25 spots per year in Heidelberg, maybe more or less at other schools. The application process compared to the US is much easier, but you have to find out where to apply and do some research online, and all the websites are in German. All you send in are your transcripts, your language exam score, a financial statement (to prove you have living expenses taken care of, since non EU citizens dont have entitlement to loans in Germany), and a personal statement. There wasn't a MCAT type exam when I applied, but I heard Heidelberg is instituting a "Medizinertest" now, but I am not sure that would apply to foreign applicants. There is no fee to apply either and they don't require LORs, it's purely based on your academic record. I think their selection process could be improved, but that's my opinion. About half the schools in Germany (there are around 40 med schools) admit students twice a year, the other half only once a year, in Oktober.

The education may be better in the fact that is is more thorough, but then again, it takes longer. You end up learning a lot of basic science, which isn't taught in US schools. Also, anatomy is done in Latin, which takes some getting used to. You have to take a Latin course as well. Also, there are oral exams here, not just written, and those can be very nerve wracking for everyone, especially if you are doing it in a foreign language. But you get used to things and it works itself out. The extra material can be a pain in the neck but I think it will serve me well when I do rotations.

There are tons of issues about studying here, cultural differences, university structural differences, bureaucratic differences etc. You have to have a strong stomach to deal with it all, but in the end, I think it is worth it. It's a first rate education for free and living in Europe is amazing as well. Also studying in Europe opens the door to making your medical education international, it's much easier here to set up clinical rotations in other countries.

If you have more questions you can PM me.

 

[Math_Guy]

From the sounds of everything posted here, I think that learning German + going to Germany is much easier than me trying to explain myself to american Adcoms. Plus, it seems like a more enjoyable experience to be honest.

I know German is a hard language, but then again - it's relatively easier to learn German than all the other uphill battles for my situation. Also, I'm already tri-langual, so I'm good with languages.

Thanks man. This is an awesome option. The best thing is that you zero debt! I hear cost of living is cheap in Germany, so I could probably swing that given my current savings.

I think I best look at the international forums....

 

[runningmom]

I hear cost of living is cheap in Germany, so I could probably swing that given my current savings.

You heard wrong.... and it only gets worse as the Euro rises against the dollar.

 

[med_heidelberg]

Well, even with the Dollar-Euro difference, it is still cheaper to live in Germany than most places in the US. Obviously there are exceptions, like Munich. Rents are cheaper and food is much, much cheaper.

I get by on around 800-900 Euro a month, and I have a pretty nice lifestyle compared to most students here (own apartment, member of a fitness studio, etc). I also happen to live in one of the most expensive cities in Germany.

But if you go to Berlin (Charite is one of the top med programs anywhere) it is super cheap!

 

[efex101]

Okay, I will give you the benefit of the doubt but your posts do not sound like they are coming from someone "mature". I get the sense that you are haphazardly going about this...NOW suddenly you have this urge to go into medicine but wait, it HAS to be a top X school? you have zero volunteering/working/whatever in healthcare from what it sounds...yet you are SURE this is your path.

If you are serious you need to stop making excuses for what ifs and get to work. Start volunteering NOW, retake the MCAT and get an excellent score. Contact as many medical schools as you possibly can and find out from them IF there is ANY chance that you could gain acceptance. Be honest, tell them your story but please leave the "higher than thou" attitude that comes off on your posts. See what they have to say and go from there. If you TRULY want this it can happen but forget about setting your sights on top whatever, and conform yourself with just getting IN to A medical school. Medical school as you know is not a right and just because YOU think you should get a second chance will not make it a fact. Also, overseas schools may be what you need.

 

[Math_Guy]

Okay, I will give you the benefit of the doubt but your posts do not sound like they are coming from someone "mature". I get the sense that you are haphazardly going about this...NOW suddenly you have this urge to go into medicine but wait, it HAS to be a top X school? you have zero volunteering/working/whatever in healthcare from what it sounds...yet you are SURE this is your path.

If you are serious you need to stop making excuses for what ifs and get to work. Start volunteering NOW, retake the MCAT and get an excellent score. Contact as many medical schools as you possibly can and find out from them IF there is ANY chance that you could gain acceptance. Be honest, tell them your story but please leave the "higher than thou" attitude that comes off on your posts. See what they have to say and go from there. If you TRULY want this it can happen but forget about setting your sights on top whatever, and conform yourself with just getting IN to A medical school. Medical school as you know is not a right and just because YOU think you should get a second chance will not make it a fact. Also, overseas schools may be what you need.

Whooh. A bit out of context?!

You missed a couple of post (understandable...this is a long thread...).

I've surrendered to "rankings" twice already! And...I haven't quit my job and rocked the boat yet to start to gain clinical experience...this is a strategy session (for me). Wouldn't you want to plan things out if you were in my shoes? Maybe not - everyone is different.

,,, That is because I plan to spend a good year gaining clinical experience where I can have a more tangible discussion. How can one communicate a feeling? It isn't until feelings manifest into action that people will believe my feelings. I suppose if I had 1 year of clinical experience under my belt, then I can make a more tangible case.

I forgot about the rankings already? Huh? Rankings? What are those?

I also waive the flag here:

Guys,

I'm just trying to keep it light hearted here. I hope you can seperate my dry humor from reality.

Trust me. I got the message.

Rankings? Huh? What are those?

I don't even own an Armanis suit....

Soo, I was justa kidding folks! Things can come across very differently in type unfortunately....

I understand that the quitting part will be a huge issue. Thanks for all the words of wisdom though. I'll put on my game face and have a face to face with someone real.

I think I know what to do to get into a school. I like the international option too, mainly for cultural and expense reasons. I know the education can be very top notch, and I've heard this from many people.

I'm still confused on the Adcoms comments.

Clearly there are people in the "know" about hard vs easier curriculums.

FYI, Champaign Urbana is in the same league as MIT of engineering schools. People will turn down Stanford and Harvard to study engineering at Champaign Urbana. MIT, Champaign Urbana, and Berkley have the best engineering programs in the nation, bar none.

Having taken both engineering undergraduate courses and pre-med courses students use as pre-recs, I can safely say the pre-med courses are much, much easier in comparasion. A 3.5 in engineering is very impressive, and a 3.5 from Champaign Urbana is extremely impressive. Not all majors have their top students with 4.0 GPAs.

To the original poster: Good luck with your applications!

You can also look at average SAT scores of engineers at places like U of IL Champaign, MIT, and Berkely and compare them to your average pre-med, and you will see what I mean. Pre-med courses are a walk in the park compared to "math/engineering/physics" courses simply because the problems are freaking HARD! Almost all of biology (including most of medicine) is pretty straight forward. The tough part is the volume of info - but that just takes time. Again - not a big deal IF you are disciplined and are willing to work your but off.

If this sounds arrogant - tough. It is a fact of life that some curriculums are just a lot more competitive than others. I concur if you do well in ANY curriculum, then KUDOS to you! No one can knock you or question that. BUT if you do respectable in a coveted program - that should catch eyes. I personally think it is more impressive to undertake a very hard curriculum and do well, than to take an easy (bio) major at shwag state and get a 4.0. Truth be told, I think it is better to be pushed to the max and be challenged. If a person is getting a 4.0 in anything, it probably means it is too easy, and that they could be pushed a bit more. But then again, this is a very purist way of looking at things, and medical school Adcoms may just all about the numbers.

I never even mentioned the following b/c I think I don't want to seem like I'm making an excuse. My roommate, who was also my best friend, passed away my last year of college. I still managed to end up with a very respectable GPA in a top program. It is clear if anyone looks on my transcript. Straight A's and then B's and C's in my last year. My best friend's year long illness followed by his death is documented with the university, in case anyone thinks I'm lying. I'm not making an excuse, because things happen in everyone's life. I just refuse to believe that Adcoms are soo mechanical about their admissions process to say, "you GPA is a bit low...."

But perhaps they are.

In any event, I don't think this is such a gloom doom scenario as many have outlined. Yes I have a lot of work to do, but so what? No biggy.

I've looked at the MCAT again, and it is a trivial exam for me. In fact, I even taught a prep course for it in my younger days. I will slam the MCAT, perhaps enroll in a MS program, start to volunteer while I go to school, and will look pristine on paper. I then have to handle my quitter scenario, but I think I can overcome that if I'm honest and to the point: "Look I messed up. I didn't know what I wanted, but that was a long time ago. This is what I want, and I've done XYZ over the past few years."

Perhaps not a top school, but I feel confident that I can get into an allopathic school in a reasonable location now.

I think we beat this one to death. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Law2Doc]

I just refuse to believe that Adcoms are soo mechanical about their admissions process to say, "you GPA is a bit low...."

But perhaps they are.

Just bear in mind that some allo schools are getting as many as 10,000 applications, and so will rapidly do anything they can to cull the herd down to a manageable size. So while they are not necessarilly mechanical the analysis of each application is probably not solomonic until you survive a few initial cuts.

At any rate, I think your next step is to talk to schools. Good luck.

 

[Math_Guy]

Just bear in mind that some allo schools are getting as many as 10,000 applications, and so will rapidly do anything they can to cull the herd down to a manageable size. So while they are not necessarilly mechanical the analysis of each application is probably not solomonic until you survive a few initial cuts.

At any rate, I think your next step is to talk to schools. Good luck.

Yep. I figure this is the case. Law of dimineshing returns probably dictates it's just probably too much work for Adcoms to read every 3.5 GPA in depth, compare curriculums, etc if they can just look at everyone above a 3.8 and still have 1000 applicants!

I think I need a MCAT score > 36 to get some attention....

I'll talk to someone asap.

Thanks.

 

[123880]

Math Guy, you've been told by several different people on this thread to grow up, reexamine your priorities, drop the arrogance, stop assuming you're better than all the other students applying to med school, start volunteering, get some kind of experience. I know all of that was paraphrased based on my review for the last 2 days of the posts in reply to your original post but it should be a fairly concise summary of the some of the posts. I'm definitely not negating anyone like jota-jota who has a similar background and has given alot of encouragement. Or any of the other posters who have given advice.

My post is more because...

Do you realize you continue to a) take offense when someone is giving you really great advice, b)you have offered NUMEROUS reasons for why you left the MD/PhD program, and c)you've changed your mind about 10 times in 2 days.

I don't understand what your best friend's death had to do with anything except lowering your GPA your last year in school. It seems a little crass to bring that up now-I may be wrong but it seems the only reason you offered this was because you are upset that one of the AdComs on this site didn't have a Marching Band singing your praises for your GPA.

Seriously, you're 32 years old. Grow up. Figure out what you want to do and go for it. You know you have great stats but what has repeatedly been advised is for you to make a decision and stick to it. Switching from a top 5 school (which was a long shot) to going international b/c you're not 'feeling the love' here isn't going to cut it. Your arrogance is over-the-top. I know you said you've gotten the hint about the 'rankings, Armani suits, ghetto' but your posts don't match that humbleness.

Do you realize other people on this site have given up careers alot more lucrative than yours to go back to school all for the DREAM that they'll go to medschool. Some people have families and spouses who are making the sacrifice right alongside the med school hopefuls. I don't see them on here making a dozen excuses about why they deserve to get in somewhere. There are no reasons why you deserve it. Get over your GPA and multiple degrees and move on. Your GPA obviously isn't that horrible, it got you in once. Althought that was years ago.

If you want a guarantee that following steps 1, 2, and 3 will get you back into a program somewhere, that's definitely not going to happen. Plot your path and pursue your goals. It's harder to pursue dreams and goals when they change hourly/daily.

In all, I wish you luck.

 

[keitaiKT]

I have to say I'm really surprised. This forum is usually so supportive of Non-trads trying to break into the field of medicine, even against incredible odds. Yet with Math_Guy, I'm guessing because people took umbrage at the tone of his posts, the attitude has been very negative. Yeah, his expectations for a top-ten school were unrealistic, and leaving an MD/PhD program is a big negative, but did we really need to try to hammer him into the ground? Some people have been supportive and given good advice, but there have been a lot of personal attacks and a general "don't even bother" feel to the advice we've given. Who are we to shoot down people's dreams?

I understand infusing some realism, and to let him know that he is not an automatic in to a medical school, but isn't this extreme?

 

[123880]

I'm not sure that I've read of any posts where people were saying don't bother. Some of the posts have been more extreme (at least in my case) because of the general tone of Math_Guy. But I definitely was not telling him not to bother. It is not my place to challenge someone's dream.

The general consensus (IMO) is that he really needs to wake up to the realities of applying to med school. The idea that continues to come across in his posts is that he deserves medical school for so many reasons and it appears that the posters are really trying to make him understand what kind of a challenge he is facing and to settle on a goal.

If you were referring to me as one of the people hammering, then I apologize for that...I just think he really needs to reexamine himself, what his goals are, and stick to them for more than 12 hours.

 

[drdr2010]

If I beg, what are my chances of getting back into medical school (ie no PhD) at the U of IL?
I feel sort of awkward even making the phone call! I've never been good at asking for favors, let alone begging!

Hey M_G,

This is what I was going to suggest. Not necessarily begging U of I to take you back, but asking someone there about your chances of getting into ANY medical school given your situation. In my opinion UIUC is the one school you should contact, seeing as they already know your story and you previously matriculated at there. Maybe you could contact the director or associate dean of the MSP (I think its someone new since your time here..was it Diane back then?). I know you aren't considering going back the combined degree route, but I think they would be more than willing to advise you. They also sit on the adcom of the UIC MD program obviously and would be able to realistically advise you of how receptive UIC would be to you re-applying. They are both extremely supportive and kind people and you've got nothing to lose by contacting them.
http://www.med.uiuc.edu/mdphd/Administration.asp

Good luck!

 

[4paw]

Hi Math Guy,

I like that you're exploring the entire field as you prepare to figure out how to pursue this goal.
Trying on Germany (don't forget Ireland or other English-speaking places, etc) and starting to talk about alternative medicines etc.

What I wanted to say was that I've noticed that even an emphasis on humanistic psychotherapy (rather than pharmacology) is seen as too 'different'. You'll figure that out. And I also hope you make it through, to be that creative, lateral thinker you're showing yourself as.

You likely will, as you're getting to know the field really fast. Remember to feed this process outside of the forum too, especially since it's a new little seed and needs nurturing at this point. What's said here is not the be-all end-all. Write the MCAT! Apply! Volunteer! Talk to those ADCOMS! Work on this journey outside, and you'll find how you want to spin things. Heal from that pain so that it doesn't fight to be the main part of your story, so that you can find that joy you have when you talk yoga and alternatives for when you talk allopathic medicine. Let this journey unfold for a year, learning the first few things to try, see how they pan out.

I'll tell you a medicine-related story of an actuarian. This one comes from my mother. She accompanied a friend to a cancer clinic. In the waiting room were many kinds of people. This man was in a corner, looked studious, conservative, so it was strange that he was in this clinic which was an allopathic doctor with not quite the usual form of treatment - so usually it would be the hippies or the risk-takers or the ones who had faith in 'alternatives' who would be in the office. The got to talking, Mom was interested in the paradox of his conservatism in clothes and in slightly withdrawn body posture and tone. He was there because he had found out he had a particular type of cancer. He had done a whole bunch of research, he had run all the odds, and he had decided on this course of treatement based on his findings - he had the best statistical shot at healing with this method, with his cancer. They call that evidence-based medicine these days, it's a hot term, and actuarial science means you know how to use that model inside-out, by the way. Mom was taken at how he got more excitement and colour in his face as he talked about following the process of finding the odds. This actuarial scientist, I actually think of him a lot. I wonder whether he survived, what his odds were, whether he beat them based on knowing. He found himself in the world of nturition and supplements and health-food-stores because he trusted the statistics and the science. I wish I'd met him. I have a love for him through his story. I hope I've written about him respectfully and lovingly.

And career students do eventually become profs in medicine, and that's o.k.

I just noticed that time in yoga practice on these pieces of info you're learning, and the more you will learn if you commit to a practice of learning - mcat, volunteering, what to volunteer at given your skills, and talking to schools for ideas, could be good. Surround yourself with some positive energy. Sure, be realistic, but sometimes that takes a person to the health-food store

 

[Dfg]

Are we so sure you even need to admit you ever went to medical school at all? Couldn't you just as well argue you applied, were accepted, but didn't go. That is if anyone even asks. Who can even remember two little classes? (etc. etc.) Being labelled a "quitter" is very bad evidently. You need to get out from under that one.

This "degree collector" concern that some have expressed here seems very problematic to me. I could see if you went from MBA to JD to MD, but multiple MS's in the same field is different. You really deserve to have those degrees be an asset. I think somehow you should argue it was an intentional and deliberate plan to cover certain topics in school as necessary to be able to achieve certain goals once you leave school (and you wanted to avoid the overspecialization of PhD). How it would lead to med school is a bit harder though.

 

[Law2Doc]

Are we so sure you even need to admit you ever went to medical school at all? Couldn't you just as well argue you applied, were accepted, but didn't go.

Applications tend to ask point blank about this. Lying about it won't get someone into med school.

 

[Dfg]

And why are you so sure of that?

(assuming for the sake of argument that it actually is lying)

 

[4paw]

And why are you so sure of that?

(assuming for the sake of argument that it actually is lying)

Hiya Dfg,

It's one of the questions on AMCAS which requires an answer, I don't think it's one of the questions that can be left blank. Even if it could be, it would be a red flag.

I'm interested to hear once Math Guy talks to various admissions directors what the various responses are to previous matriculation in this specific case are - given that Math Guy never took the med school portion to any significant extent, that he collected some graduate knowledge, and then has worked in an extremely competitive field (actuarial science) for ten years.

Also, as a side note, because Math Guy works in actuarial science, I'm really interested what his view on global warming and the failure of traditional pharmacology in the context of superbugs is. Those actuarians are the ones who tell the insurance companies to no longer offer insurance on ocean-front properties, when the ocean is predicted to rise and hurricanes are predicted to increase. I read this book recently - The Long Emergency - describing the end of oil, global warming and the rise of superbugs, and what kind of impact that may have and perhaps when. The medicine we're coming into may have a lot of danger related to it that hasn't been around since spanish influenza epidemics, and prior to antibiotics. The BP exec. said that likely the end of a fuel economy would not be as close. However, I'm interested in the insurance view as well as the petroleum industry view.

These kinds of things will hugely impact medicine! I'm surprised that more talk doesn't happen around this kind of thing.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Hiya Dfg,

It's one of the questions on AMCAS which requires an answer, I don't think it's one of the questions that can be left blank. Even if it could be, it would be a red flag.

I'm interested to hear once Math Guy talks to various admissions directors what the various responses are to previous matriculation in this specific case are - given that Math Guy never took the med school portion to any significant extent, that he collected some graduate knowledge, and then has worked in an extremely competitive field (actuarial science) for ten years.

Also, as a side note, because Math Guy works in actuarial science, I'm really interested what his view on global warming and the failure of traditional pharmacology in the context of superbugs is. Those actuarians are the ones who tell the insurance companies to no longer offer insurance on ocean-front properties, when the ocean is predicted to rise and hurricanes are predicted to increase. I read this book recently - The Long Emergency - describing the end of oil, global warming and the rise of superbugs, and what kind of impact that may have and perhaps when. The medicine we're coming into may have a lot of danger related to it that hasn't been around since spanish influenza epidemics, and prior to antibiotics. The BP exec. said that likely the end of a fuel economy would not be as close. However, I'm interested in the insurance view as well as the petroleum industry view.

These kinds of things will hugely impact medicine! I'm surprised that more talk doesn't happen around this kind of thing.

Couple of things.....I really hate starting debates, but I equally hate alarmists. Spanish Influenza was a virus, not a bacteria. If you are worried about superbugs (i.e. antibiotic resistant bacteria) read up on phage therapy. Also, read up on ciprofloxacin, especially the parts that describe how ciprofloxacin was the first fundamentally new type of antibiotic to be developed in a while. If you are worried about the end of oil, do a google search for "oil sands," or "coal." If you are worried about Global Warming, do a google search for "junk science." As a (soon-to-be former) engineer, I have enormous faith that we can solve all of these problems with research and new/improved technologies.

 

[Maceo Parker]

Oh, come off it people. It isn't that hard to get into medical school. If this dude rocks the MCAT (35+) with his background, he's going to get in somewhere.

 

[4paw]

Couple of things.....I really hate starting debates, but I equally hate alarmists. Spanish Influenza was a virus, not a bacteria. If you are worried about superbugs (i.e. antibiotic resistant bacteria) read up on phage therapy. Also, read up on ciprofloxacin, especially the parts that describe how ciprofloxacin was the first fundamentally new type of antibiotic to be developed in a while. If you are worried about the end of oil, do a google search for "oil sands," or "coal." If you are worried about Global Warming, do a google search for "junk science." As a (soon-to-be former) engineer, I have enormous faith that we can solve all of these problems with research and new/improved technologies.

I'm going to end this here, and start a new thread, as I want to have this conversation (not debate, not 'hate', alarmist-prompted or otherwise, just plain ol' communication...) Starting new thread, but not sure where....topics in healthcare? yes, there. so math-guy, if you see my original request, can you find that new thread? ciao

 

[deleted113029]

This "degree collector" concern that some have expressed here seems very problematic to me. I could see if you went from MBA to JD to MD, but multiple MS's in the same field is different. You really deserve to have those degrees be an asset. I think somehow you should argue it was an intentional and deliberate plan to cover certain topics in school as necessary to be able to achieve certain goals once you leave school (and you wanted to avoid the overspecialization of PhD). How it would lead to med school is a bit harder though.

I think MG has an awesome reason for going back to med school with his multiple degrees in math. PLUS being an actuary for the past 6 years or so, he can possibly streamline the delivery of healthcare in such a way to cut costs, etc. Also, he would be an extremely valuable asset if he would one day *gulp* work for medical insurance companies. His multiple degrees would have been useless if he didn't use them...but he DID! And that was in the PAST.

I just love it when people take your stats, your comments, and PRESUME to know you at all. When we all were preparing for interviews, did any of us have perfect answers to begin with? MG seems to be just thinking out loud which does NOT mean he's unfocused. He is seeking and absorbing the advice here at SDN, that's all.

On a side to MG: If I heard and listened to people when I was applying 4-5 years ago, I wouldn't be graduating from medschool in spring 2007. I had a horrendous GPA, much worse than yours MG, minimal volunteer experience, etc. I even called my alma mater to see what I had to do. They said you haven't stepped into a classroom in over 4 years, so what makes you think you can handle the intense course load in med school? This completely p'd me off. So, I used that anger and put it to good use (sublimation!). What's hilarious is that I am at the top of my class!

I hope one day to be on an adcom to give a fair shake to people who truly want to make a better life for them and for others. If someone didn't take a chance on me, then I wouldn't be getting residency offers from the top US residency programs. So, GOOD LUCK MG!

 

[Law2Doc]

Oh, come off it people. It isn't that hard to get into medical school. If this dude rocks the MCAT (35+) with his background, he's going to get in somewhere.

Numbers were never his issue, and so a 35 MCAT won't change things. He has to talk to schools and see who might be receptive to him.

 

[don_Genaro_27]

Math_guy:

I don't really spend as much time in the forums so I am not sure as to how accurate everyone's assessment here is. Having said that, they are all raising a very important point. The fact that you quit medical school will be held against you. Just like any one factor that a given person thought wasn't good enough would be held against them. Just so you know, this just happens to be the worst of them. Apart from going to prison, I suppose....

But, in my humble opinion, your chances are far better than indicated here. I think that UIUC engg. not being known is itself funny. I have a good knowledge of engg. programs, and UIUC is a very well known program. Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't the NCSA, national center for supercomputing applications located there....?

Your gpas are quite good. Your academic preparation insofar as you have described it is on par with top school material. I would say they would put you in the top 15% easily. OTOH, your not applying to a spread of programs will hurt you. The best thing you can do is call a pre-professional adviser and tell them about this situation. And do study hard for your MCAT. I would say take a comprehensive course while you're at it. Believe me, that stuff works.

Unfortunately, while you are probably a very functional and cool person, your life experiences regarding medicine seem lacking. This is what we are all glued to here in this forum. Where did you get the idea to go to MD/PhD from in the 1990s when the programs were less well known and less well-regulated, as you say. Why did you commit to 7 years of work, when obviously you wanted to do nothing with the MD program? Are you sure you even wanted to become a doctor back then? Think about it.

If it was a parental choice, forget it. It probably still hurts to say it, but it probably still is. If it's an individual awakening, for chrissakes, go explore it, man. Do some awesome medical work and come back and talk to us.

Don't worry. Med-schools will be around for ever. You have plenty of life to re-live your dreams and pursue your ambitions. The way I see it, quitting once should not bar you for ever. WHy should it? Would I rather see you today plodding away as a mediocre researcher or worse an unhappy doctor (yes, they too are a-plenty).

If you need help, please post again, or click the pm button next to my name. I have a lot of respect for people willing to give up their cushy present life for a future life of hard work in the medical field.

Thanks,

AI.

 

[p9142]

But, in my humble opinion, your chances are far better than indicated here. I think that UIUC engg. not being known is itself funny. I have a good knowledge of engg. programs, and UIUC is a very well known program. Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't the NCSA, national center for supercomputing applications located there....?

Yeah, all you need to do is click help, and then About Internet Explorer on your Web Browser.

By the way, nobody thinks of UI as a top state school except you.

I'm pretty sure that just about everyone realizes that UIUC is a top school, not just a top state school. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/eng/brief/engrank_brief.php

 

[theraball]

Hi Math_Guy,

not sure if you're still reading this thread.... My father has always said, you can study great medicine at any accredited school in the U.S. You don't have to go to a top 10 or top 3 school to become a good physician; every school teaches good medicine, and every state in the country has hospitals full of sick people, not just the Harvard, Yale, and Johns Hopkins teaching hospitals.

You do need to demonstrate to yourself and to the world that you're interested in medicine; try some volunteering at your local hospital and see what you get out of it.

If you're really into it and want to go into medicine, I'm sure you'll do fine. You have tons of academic training and clearly are a very intelligent person. Join the field and find a cure for cancer (or for baldness, my personal priority).


-Therapy Ball