Let the ranking begin...

[Leo Aquarius]

It's interesting... Maybe there are just fewer of us to begin with, but it seems like we don't have nearly as many Program X vs. Program Y threads as I remember from the med school application cycle on SDN....

Maybe I'll post one in a week or so if I don't get closer to a decision on how to rank the programs from number two on.....

Here's one: Harbor-UCLA vs. USC (southern cal, not south carolina).

They both offer very strong county training. The residents at Harbor actually run the Psych ED, whereas the USC residents rotate in a Psych ED. If you want to do county work including jails then they both prepare you well. If you want to do private practice then not so much, although Harbor is now having residents spend some time at Kaiser. But the reputations for both is to place in either county jobs or fellowships, but not so much academia or private practice. That's my 2 cents. Any thoughts?

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[SmallBird]

I have my first and second set.

Not sure about 3 - 6. If any body feels like offering an opinion:

Vanderbilt, Emory, Case, Harvard South Shore (in no particular order).

Emory stands out as having a stronger reputation, perhaps, but I didn't like the hospital as much. Case and Vanderbilt both have great training sites and the people where very likable. Harvard South Shore has good training and strong affiliations, but Brockton...

 

[classof2011]

I have my first and second set.

Not sure about 3 - 6. If any body feels like offering an opinion:

Vanderbilt, Emory, Case, Harvard South Shore (in no particular order).

Emory stands out as having a stronger reputation, perhaps, but I didn't like the hospital as much. Case and Vanderbilt both have great training sites and the people where very likable. Harvard South Shore has good training and strong affiliations, but Brockton...

What didnt you like about the Hospital(s) at Emory? Otherwise it sounds like you know where you'd want things...just figure out which (Case and Vandy) you should place as either 4 or 5.

 

[nitemagi]

Here's one: Harbor-UCLA vs. USC (southern cal, not south carolina).

They both offer very strong county training. The residents at Harbor actually run the Psych ED, whereas the USC residents rotate in a Psych ED. If you want to do county work including jails then they both prepare you well. If you want to do private practice then not so much, although Harbor is now having residents spend some time at Kaiser. But the reputations for both is to place in either county jobs or fellowships, but not so much academia or private practice. That's my 2 cents. Any thoughts?

I would value Harbor over USC. Reputation-wise Harbor is better. And the presumption I had had was the new heads of the department and residency would make USC much improved, but in talking to recent graduates that has not been the case. Harbor is connected to UCLA, has reputable and friendly leaders, and IMO may be #2 best training location in LA. I trained further south, myself.

 

[Saluki]

Here's one: Harbor-UCLA vs. USC (southern cal, not south carolina).

They both offer very strong county training. The residents at Harbor actually run the Psych ED, whereas the USC residents rotate in a Psych ED. If you want to do county work including jails then they both prepare you well. If you want to do private practice then not so much, although Harbor is now having residents spend some time at Kaiser. But the reputations for both is to place in either county jobs or fellowships, but not so much academia or private practice. That's my 2 cents. Any thoughts?

I so can't help you, though, because I didn't apply to either....

I will say that the UCLA name means more to the average Joe on the street when you head east of the Mississippi.... I've found over time, though, that most California people aren't aching to head east of the Mississippi

 

[splik]

Here's one: Harbor-UCLA vs. USC (southern cal, not south carolina).

They both offer very strong county training. The residents at Harbor actually run the Psych ED, whereas the USC residents rotate in a Psych ED. If you want to do county work including jails then they both prepare you well. If you want to do private practice then not so much, although Harbor is now having residents spend some time at Kaiser. But the reputations for both is to place in either county jobs or fellowships, but not so much academia or private practice. That's my 2 cents. Any thoughts?

win for Harbor-UCLA - I am a bit biased but I have a lot of love for them. They have actually had o/p rotations at Kaiser for a number of years, this is not a recent thing and residents have gone on to work for them or other HMOs after residency. The Psych ER is amazing (I think the throughput it larger for LAC/USC but you get the patients from LAX so see some interesting pathology with patients from all over the world) and they have a lot of great attendings. I am not sure what you mean by 'the residents actually run the psych ED' - there are usually 3 attendings in the psych ER during the day so there is tons of supervision and teaching. The current president of the American Psychoanalytic Association is on the faculty, they have some very interesting characters (such as Charles Grob who does psychedelic research), some of the most sensible child psychiatrists I have ever met, and there is good psychotherapy training and lots of extreme pathology. Also plus of doing electives at UCLA-NPI in 4th year or getting involved in research.

Location not ideal - takes ages to get to say westwood especially in traffic but near Manhattan Beach, Hermosa, Rendodo etc. Can deffo go into private practice after and as for academics there is a bit of selection bias and this is not a 'competitive' program but you can't go wrong unless you really have an aversion to the underserved, the county experience etc. and obviously building is nothing like NPI aesthetically.

 

[splik]

I have my first and second set.

Not sure about 3 - 6. If any body feels like offering an opinion:

Vanderbilt, Emory, Case, Harvard South Shore (in no particular order).

Emory stands out as having a stronger reputation, perhaps, but I didn't like the hospital as much. Case and Vanderbilt both have great training sites and the people where very likable. Harvard South Shore has good training and strong affiliations, but Brockton...

Emory, Vanderbilt, Case Western, then Southshore.

Grady is a bit of a dump and like most county hospitals is falling apart a bit, but seriously you cant go wrong for training experience will be much better than Emory. I may be a bit strange though in that I prefer working in public hospitals, and the more dilapidated the better!

Vanderbilt actually has a fair amount of decent research. it is not as established for psych as it is for internal medicine though has a good C-L service as a result.

Case Western - not much research (did you apply to cincinatti? probably the best for academics in those parts) not sure how much you would cope with cleveland

South Shore -The nicest thing I have heard about it is 'it's not as bad as it used to be'. Not the most enthusiastic endorsement... and Brockton is Brockton!

 

[Saluki]

Splik, you deserve extra points... I'm not sure whether I agree with all of your assessments, but I think it's wonderful that you give definite answers. Most people say Program X is good for this, Program Y is good for that, and good luck with your decision. You actually say "Go for Program Z over Programs X or Y, and this is why...."

Love it!

 

[splik]

thanks! well people should of course go with their gut (except if they have irritable bowel syndrome) but if you want to ask some random people on the internet how you should make the list that will decide where you will spend the next 4 years of your life I am happy to tell you what I would do!

 

[Saluki]

thanks! well people should of course go with their gut (except if they have irritable bowel syndrome) but if you want to ask some random people on the internet how you should make the list that will decide where you will spend the next 4 years of your life I am happy to tell you what I would do!

I sincerely hope that no one is using random internet strangers to decide the next four years of their lives. I think, though, when someone tells you what they would do and why, it helps clarify your own thoughts on things....

 

[TexasPhysician]

Splik is close to correct. The best ranking of those 4 is Vandy, Emory, Case, Southshore.

 

[Saluki]

Splik is close to correct. The best ranking of those 4 is Vandy, Emory, Case, Southshore.

This is an essay test, not a short answer one.... You don't get full credit unless you explain your reasoning

 

[classof2011]

This is an essay test, not a short answer one.... You don't get full credit unless you explain your reasoning

What about this one:

1) UTSW 2) Mt Sinai

3-6 Emory, UNC, Duke, MD/Shepp

There are others I wont be ranking but I'll share those later.

 

[Saluki]

I vote for Emory as number three...

I only interviewed at a couple from that list.... I think though of that list that Emory is the most similar to UTSW- lots of work with urban underserved, large Southern city, tons of research opportunities, most rotations at a county hospital, etc. I think it would be incredible training for either a research career or work in community mental health...

 

[classof2011]

Yep, and thats what makes me think about doing a switch between Sinai and Emory for the number 2 spot. Those factors you pulled out are what Im going for....Large/Mid Sized Southern City, Decent research exposure (if you want it), and underserved/ubranish patient populations

For some reason I didn't see that kinda patient pop an important theme at Sinai. But I like it enough to at least consider it staying within my top 3....

 

[splik]

From my psychological profile of you I would say:

Emory, Shepherd Pratt, UNC, Duke

Emory had the pluses of county, university and VA system; Atlanta (which I suspect you probably like); dealing with lots of very sick patients, decent research opportunity and friendly faculty and residents (with the exception of the PD). The call schedule is quite hard core, and only giving 1 weeks vacation every 6 months seems a bit cruel, but the location I reckon is probably a big plus compared to the others on your list.

Shepherd Pratt is a hidden gem and I think is one of the more underrated programs. They have great clinical facilities again rotating through state, university and VA hospitals, with one of the most balanced psychotherapy curriculums anywhere and the location isn't as bad as you might think!

UNC wins over Duke for location. Granted, they are not that far apart but there really is nothing in Durham whereas there is a fair amount to do in Chapel Hill comparatively. Both are quite hard core for intern year, but Duke has major problems with overworking their residents it seems and things seem a bit more relaxed for UNC after the intern year with ?no call for PGY-3 AND 4. UNC has better child and some experiences you don't quite get at Duke (i/p eating disorders) whereas it seems the main selling point of Duke is Grace Thrall. You rotate at central regional for both which is a great clinical experience. Duke has probably the best family therapy program in the country. I was not all that impressed with the residents at Duke but they were friendly if exhausted.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Splik failed this test. Rank exactly the reverse of above.

 

[splik]

Splik failed this test. Rank exactly the reverse of above.

You're obviously not a fan of emory. is there something you know we don't?

 

[MiddleRoad]

From my psychological profile of you I would say:

Emory, Shepherd Pratt, UNC, Duke

Emory had the pluses of county, university and VA system; Atlanta (which I suspect you probably like); dealing with lots of very sick patients, decent research opportunity and friendly faculty and residents (with the exception of the PD). The call schedule is quite hard core, and only giving 1 weeks vacation every 6 months seems a bit cruel, but the location I reckon is probably a big plus compared to the others on your list.

Shepherd Pratt is a hidden gem and I think is one of the more underrated programs. They have great clinical facilities again rotating through state, university and VA hospitals, with one of the most balanced psychotherapy curriculums anywhere and the location isn't as bad as you might think!

UNC wins over Duke for location. Granted, they are not that far apart but there really is nothing in Durham whereas there is a fair amount to do in Chapel Hill comparatively. Both are quite hard core for intern year, but Duke has major problems with overworking their residents it seems and things seem a bit more relaxed for UNC after the intern year with ?no call for PGY-3 AND 4. UNC has better child and some experiences you don't quite get at Duke (i/p eating disorders) whereas it seems the main selling point of Duke is Grace Thrall. You rotate at central regional for both which is a great clinical experience. Duke has probably the best family therapy program in the country. I was not all that impressed with the residents at Duke but they were friendly if exhausted.

Splik, I love reading your opinions about programs, but I'm curious... Did you interview at all of the places you talk about in your posts? If so, you must have had a very busy schedule over the past few months.

 

[splik]

no have not interviewed at all the places but there are fair few programs that I did not apply to but am well acquainted with (e.g. from electives, research assistantships, knowing faculty or residents in program).

 

[SmallBird]

Splik failed this test. Rank exactly the reverse of above.

Don't know about the middle two, but definitely would agree with you about putting Duke ahead of Emory based on my research into the programs and interview experiences. Duke not only has a lot research funding, but I genuinely got the idea that residents are very involved with a lot of this work. Also thought the training sites were better - Duke University Hospital, plus a good VA, plus what appears to be a great state hospital. Work load in first year probably is very heavy, but at present I am doing 80 hours a week in general surgery, so hard work is not something that puts me off too much.

 

[TexasPhysician]

You're obviously not a fan of emory. is there something you know we don't?

According to the residents I talked to during the interview, there was little time for reading. When a program is so busy that you are just seeing patients non-stop, it is a problem in my opinion. A good program provides time to read, evaluate the literature on a subject, etc. Sure there are busy times everywhere, but the residents at Emory told me that they have to learn by volume because it never slowed down until your outpatient year. That's a red flag for me, and I spoke with 7+ residents.

 

[BobA]

Splik failed this test. Rank exactly the reverse of above.

Completely agree. Duke and UNC are my favorites on that list - and who wants to live in Hot-Lanta or Baltimore?

 

[classof2011]

According to the residents I talked to during the interview, there was little time for reading. When a program is so busy that you are just seeing patients non-stop, it is a problem in my opinion. A good program provides time to read, evaluate the literature on a subject, etc. Sure there are busy times everywhere, but the residents at Emory told me that they have to learn by volume because it never slowed down until your outpatient year. That's a red flag for me, and I spoke with 7+ residents.

Tell it like it is TexasPhysician!...I actually have heard the same thing, but I do believe that someone has already posted a review that Emory is definitely a service>teaching program.

But I also hear that Duke is really no different. The problem with these programs is that many times the added volume or "work" does not necessarily seem to confer better training. More like a plantation.

I guess its gonna depend what kind of style works for the individual. Some people love volume. I on the other hand need to breathe and make my patients learning experiences by integrating clinical/literature/teaching based methods while in a controlled setting. So I agree.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

...
I guess its gonna depend what kind of style works for the individual. Some people love volume. I on the other hand need to breathe and make my patients learning experiences by integrating clinical/literature/teaching based methods while in a controlled setting. So I agree.

We know you're just going to use the downtime to surf the 'Net anyway.

 

[psych]

I would value Harbor over USC. Reputation-wise Harbor is better. And the presumption I had had was the new heads of the department and residency would make USC much improved, but in talking to recent graduates that has not been the case. Harbor is connected to UCLA, has reputable and friendly leaders, and IMO may be #2 best training location in LA. I trained further south, myself.

Personally I am struggling with the order of these two programs on my rol. I've definitely heard that usc is/was? having internal conflicts but I don't know what that means for residency training. I don't like that usc keeps bouncing around to different hospitals though. Which hospital is next for their inpt psych? :/ Usc requires a lot more driving than harbor and that's something to consider in la. My problem with harbor is that the residents might be over-worked. Pgy2 is q5? Moonlighting is plentiful so that means the senior residents are voluntarily over-worked. The residents at usc seemed so happy and enthusiastic. It appeared as though there was camaraderie. At harbor, they seemed less happy and to be honest, exhausted. My impression is that the residents at harbor were less social with each other outside of work...

 

[notdeadyet]

The residents at usc seemed so happy and enthusiastic. It appeared as though there was camaraderie. At harbor, they seemed less happy and to be honest, exhausted. My impression is that the residents at harbor were less social with each other outside of work...

Personally, I wouldn't read a lot into your impression of how well the residents at a program gel with one another. It varies as much from class to class as it does from program to program. If the interns at a potential program seem very social, it's more a reflection of those 8 or 10 personalities than something particular in the water for that program. Every psych program has the social class that get along like a great family and just about every psych program has the one class that didn't seem to gel.

In the USC vs. UCLA-Harbor choice, one thing I think applicants might want to consider these days is how and where programs are being funded. It's no secret that the University of California and many public systems are cash strapped right now. Is this temporary or a sign of things to come? I have no idea. How will that boil down to impact the quality of their psych programs? I have no idea. Does USC and the private programs have an endowment or such that will avoid possible budget cuts? I have no idea. But these are questions that are even more relevant these days than a couple of years ago.

 

[nitemagi]

Personally, I wouldn't read a lot into your impression of how well the residents at a program gel with one another. It varies as much from class to class as it does from program to program. If the interns at a potential program seem very social, it's more a reflection of those 8 or 10 personalities than something particular in the water for that program. Every psych program has the social class that get along like a great family and just about every psych program has the one class that didn't seem to gel.

In the USC vs. UCLA-Harbor choice, one thing I think applicants might want to consider these days is how and where programs are being funded. It's no secret that the University of California and many public systems are cash strapped right now. Is this temporary or a sign of things to come? I have no idea. How will that boil down to impact the quality of their psych programs? I have no idea. Does USC and the private programs have an endowment or such that will avoid possible budget cuts? I have no idea. But these are questions that are even more relevant these days than a couple of years ago.

Both are county programs and funded heavily by LA county, not the university of california.

 

[Ron Mexico]

any advice on wayne state vs. carilion clinc vs. creighton/nebraska?

 

[representando]

In the USC vs. UCLA-Harbor choice, one thing I think applicants might want to consider these days is how and where programs are being funded. It's no secret that the University of California and many public systems are cash strapped right now. Is this temporary or a sign of things to come? I have no idea. How will that boil down to impact the quality of their psych programs? I have no idea. Does USC and the private programs have an endowment or such that will avoid possible budget cuts? I have no idea. But these are questions that are even more relevant these days than a couple of years ago.

You should take into account program financial stability for the future (if you can) but public vs. private does not mean anything. Cedar's Sinai closed this year (private). Harbor-UCLA (LA county $$ for in house moonlighting this year).

 

[Leo Aquarius]

So how much should financial stability of programs factor into our ranking order for Los Angeles programs (or any others in similar predicaments)? Is it really that unstable a backdrop? I can't imaging an established place like, for example, UCLA-NPI getting shaken by funding issues.

 

[nitemagi]

So how much should financial stability of programs factor into our ranking order for Los Angeles programs (or any others in similar predicaments)? Is it really that unstable a backdrop? I can't imaging an established place like, for example, UCLA-NPI getting shaken by funding issues.

I wouldn't worry about it. Funding doesn't affect your training. Plus prop 63 funds a lot of county mental health resources in california and is protected from state budget issues.

 

[notdeadyet]

I wouldn't worry about it. Funding doesn't affect your training. Plus prop 63 funds a lot of county mental health resources in california and is protected from state budget issues.

I'd respectfully disagree. Academic programs with budget cuts can see increased call, whittled down didactic training and fewer current elective opportunities. County programs aren't exempt either and I know of at least 1 psych program whose inpatient facility beds were cut almost in half due to budget cuts. Budgets may not be transparent at the resident level, but they definitely affect training.

I wouldn't make this a huge determinant in the decision process, but things being pretty much tie-breakers, it would be foolish to not lean towards a financially stable program with good funding vs. one with declining budgets and no plan out.

 

[bestcoast]

edited: wrong thread


Regarding my rank list
I also wonder about the difference between Case and Cincinnati.
I think that Case has a better clinical training and more flexibility while Cincinnati has more research funding.
Would going to a program with clinical training hinder you from getting into a good fellowship?

 

[LEdaddy]

So how much should financial stability of programs factor into our ranking order for Los Angeles programs (or any others in similar predicaments)? Is it really that unstable a backdrop? I can't imaging an established place like, for example, UCLA-NPI getting shaken by funding issues.

Few programs I visited seemed as flush with cash as UCLA NPI. Unlike UCSF, which was definitely affected by cuts at SF General, UCLA has no core county inpatient site (psych ED rotation is at Harbor). The residents seemed well-supported there.

 

[SAS1284]

Does anyone have a sense on UCSF and how the funding problems faced in California may effect the program in the next few years? It seems like a great place to train but the funding issue seems a little uncertain.

 

[nitemagi]

Few programs I visited seemed as flush with cash as UCLA NPI. Unlike UCSF, which was definitely affected by cuts at SF General, UCLA has no core county inpatient site (psych ED rotation is at Harbor). The residents seemed well-supported there.

NPI has a lot of NIH/NIMH $$ coming in, which is more subject to federal budget changes. They also are one of few programs that gets state funding for teaching attendings that have few other responsibilities (or so I hear).

 

[notdeadyet]

Does anyone have a sense on UCSF and how the funding problems faced in California may effect the program in the next few years? It seems like a great place to train but the funding issue seems a little uncertain.

LEDaddy makes a good point. UCLA and many programs lack a significant county experience. On the one hand, that makes them less susceptible to county budget cuts. UCSF and other programs with a big county training environment may feel when those county budgets are cut.

That said, this is the price of the county experience. You have to deal with challenging patients, challenging politics, and, yes, sometimes challenging financial restrictions. You can avoid that by choosing programs without a big county exposure, but for many people, doing tertiary care and private practice psychiatry without a well-rounded county experience would be a nonstarter.

Public psychiatry and commitments to the undeserved are never easy. And during challenging financial times, you really will need to walk the walk.

 

[nitemagi]

LEDaddy makes a good point. UCLA and many programs lack a significant county experience. On the one hand, that makes them less susceptible to county budget cuts. UCSF and other programs with a big county training environment may feel when those county budgets are cut.

That said, this is the price of the county experience. You have to deal with challenging patients, challenging politics, and, yes, sometimes challenging financial restrictions. You can avoid that by choosing programs without a big county exposure, but for many people, doing tertiary care and private practice psychiatry without a well-rounded county experience would be a nonstarter.

Public psychiatry and commitments to the undeserved are never easy. And during challenging financial times, you really will need to walk the walk.

While I agree, I would again emphasize that prop 63 at least somewhat insulates county mental health funding from drastic cuts. In fact it turns out the funding is going to INCREASE in the next year (per the head of LAC DMH), unlike pretty much every other state funded area of healthcare. This is because it's an independent funding source dedicated to mental health funding that [at least currently] is not able to be redirected by the state budget. It doesn't come out of the main pot.

 

[psychphan]

Many things to comment on here....

Here's one: Harbor-UCLA vs. USC (southern cal, not south carolina).
If you want to do county work including jails then they both prepare you well. If you want to do private practice then not so much,

I only interviewed at Harbor, but here are my thoughts on it. I think the psychopathology you see would be great, LA county certainly produces some sick people. However, IMO it lacked diversity, in the sense that your experiences are essentially 100% county patients. I applied with the impression that it was a combination of county and university, but that honestly wasn't the case. I think you have 1 rotation outside of the county system (geri if I recall at NPI), plus electives if you so choose in fourth year. I was looking for more diversity. And also honestly the borderline dilapidated facilities,plus the fact that I don't like the idea of walking through metal detectors and being wanded everyday, so I decided to not even to rank it. However, I do think you would get great county training and ER psych training if thats your thing. I also have to disagree that you can't go into private practice. You have a lot of outpt time (including a full year of outpt during PGY2), so in that sense you would be prepared.

they have some very interesting characters (such as Charles Grob who does psychedelic research),

Funny you should mention him. Dr. Grob was one of the reasons I applied to Harbor. I brought him up during my interview day, and the response was a chuckle. I got the sense that he is sort of a black sheep, or at least the quirky odd ball in the crowd. Hes definitely accepted by his peers there, but I didn't get the impression that Harbor was a forward thinking liberal paradise.

South Shore -The nicest thing I have heard about it is 'it's not as bad as it used to be'. Not the most enthusiastic endorsement... and Brockton is Brockton!

HSS gets a lot of **** on these boards. The residents I spoke to there seemed very happy and had lots of good things to say about the program. Granted its not MGH, or even Longwood, but I left with a good impression. And Brockton was not all that bad. Plus its a suburb, and there are many neighboring suburbs that are nicer places to live. Its not like you have to live rigth across from the hospital, you can live in Quincy for example. I hear thats quite nice.

UNC wins over Duke for location. Granted, they are not that far apart but there really is nothing in Durham whereas there is a fair amount to do in Chapel Hill comparatively. Both are quite hard core for intern year, but Duke has major problems with overworking their residents it seems and things seem a bit more relaxed for UNC after the intern year with ?no call for PGY-3 AND 4. UNC has better child and some experiences you don't quite get at Duke (i/p eating disorders) whereas it seems the main selling point of Duke is Grace Thrall. You rotate at central regional for both which is a great clinical experience. Duke has probably the best family therapy program in the country. I was not all that impressed with the residents at Duke but they were friendly if exhausted.

While I agree with you in that I think UNC is a better place to be than Duke, I just want to make a couple comments about your post. First, I think you have Durham and Chapel Hill confused. Although Chapel Hill is a nicer area, it is pretty much simply a college town, and from my experiences there was plenty more to do in Durham. As far as the programs, one of the big things that seperates UNC and Duke is UNC's neurosciences hospital. Its very nice, with 7 different specialy units including dedicated psychosis unit, eating d/o unit, and perinatal unit (although the latter is only 3 beds I believe, its still the only dedicated perinatal unit in the country, or at least thats what they tell you). Plus you rotate at the state hospital. With Duke, you also use that state hospital, but the Duke University psych ward consists only of a single inpt gen adult unit. You thus spend a significant amount of time at the VA, which some could call a good experience for diversity but IMO you would get much better diversity through the UNC hospital than Duke's VA. The other things that I percieved as weaknesses at Duke was that no moonlighting is allowed (technically you are allowed to do medicine moonlighting, but you are not allowed to psych moonlight), and the work schedule. You push the work hours limit on most of your rotations throughout the first 2 years. I think UNC's schedule was significantly lighter, albeit you still work hard.

That being said, saying the main selling point of Duke is Grace Thrall seems like a stretch. Granted, she was pretty fantastic, but Duke has a lot of selling points. Its one of the most respected institutions of higher education in the country, they are top 10 in psych research funding, have a world renowned department chair, incredibly bright people, world class psychotherapy training and a name that will certainly get you places if your career aspirations involve academia. I think saying the PD is their main draw is kind of demeaning to the program.

 

[classof2011]

That being said, saying the main selling point of Duke is Grace Thrall seems like a stretch. Granted, she was pretty fantastic, but Duke has a lot of selling points. Its one of the most respected institutions of higher education in the country, they are top 10 in psych research funding, have a world renowned department chair, incredibly bright people, world class psychotherapy training and a name that will certainly get you places if your career aspirations involve academia. I think saying the PD is their main draw is kind of demeaning to the program.

Psychphan. I've found that many of the "selling points" that you mention here (unfortunately) dont always reflect the quality of the actual residency program.

Being "top 10 in research funding" doesn't mean that most of the residents come out with a legitimate research experience or feel like they have access to it (or that its even practical). And if one has no interest in research, this is not a true selling point. An official "research track" would appear more compelling.

Being a "respected institution of higher education" doesn't always confer the strongest training program, especially in the context of specialty circles where everyone knows (regardless of name) where the better training programs are.

Im not saying Duke in particular isn't holding it down over there, but one things for sure: there are programs that LOOK good, and others that actually ARE good. I'm uncertain that many of the things that influence us to believe a program SHOULD be better than what it is (research dollars, strong chair, general name that rings bells) are what actually makes a good program.

However, I am under the impression that some things do actually hold true for great programs..
-Friendly, approachable, caring PD
-Ability to attract very smart, bright, and friendly co-residents
-Quality and Diverse training sites (eating d/o, CL, yadda)
-Successful placement of fellowships of choice upon completion

Am I thinking about this wrong?

I agree with ya though, I personally dont think thats the only selling point of Duke, but Dr. Thrall is definitely a standout Positive to the many negatives that may exist (which I believe is basically what Splik was getting at.) The family studies seems awesome too, and they do seem to get a ton of supervision.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I didn't interview anywhere in the SE, so I'm not super familiar with any of these programs, but I thought lots of UNC residents lived in Durham anyway since Chapel Hill is ridiculously expensive. So that might take out the Chapel Hill/Durham divide.

As for California programs, I thought Harbor was pretty awesome, and it seemed like they got a ton of outpatient exposure from early on, which would be good for private practice. As for the pt diversity, I thought they rotated at Kaiser and could do electives at NPI.

I don't know the specifics of California funding issues, but I think money is something to think about when picking a program. Of course it's hard to tell from the outside how programs are doing -- look at Cedars Sinai. Losing beds or losing inpatient units (things that have happened to various programs) is a bad deal, and I'd prefer to avoid that. Things like educational funding and free meals aren't bad either, although admittedly less important.

 

[psych]

Is anyone else freaking out about their rol?? Every program is so different!! I cannot decide on anything. I thought I had a #1. I no longer do.
I'm staring at my list. 12 is set (for certain: don't really want to go there) 1-11 are blank. HELP

 

[nitemagi]

Is anyone else freaking out about their rol?? Every program is so different!! I cannot decide on anything. I thought I had a #1. I no longer do.
I'm staring at my list. 12 is set (for certain: don't really want to go there) 1-11 are blank. HELP

Breathe. Write out the highest priorities. Write out the reasons you don't want to go to a place. And IMHO, write out the factors that you HAVE to get from a residency training, vs. those you'd like to get but could supplement later. A prioritize accordingly.

 

[Saluki]

Is anyone else freaking out about their rol?? Every program is so different!! I cannot decide on anything. I thought I had a #1. I no longer do.
I'm staring at my list. 12 is set (for certain: don't really want to go there) 1-11 are blank. HELP

Why don't you see if you can group them a bit (top three or four, etc.)? Then you can post those along with the reasoning for your confusion. Your fellow SDNers are happy to help, but I have faith that you can make some groupings with the eleven programs....

 

[psych]

Thank you nitemagi & Saluki. I have 10 & 11 down so that's progress. Still having a meltdown but I will try to figure out my priorities. All the programs are strong so I'm not worried about deficits in training. I'm struggling with details like call schedule, moonlighting, col, and the most important thing- location. I do not like the location of my medical school and choosing where I'll be for the next four years and most likely where I'll practice is daunting.

 

[Saluki]

Thank you nitemagi & Saluki. I have 10 & 11 down so that's progress. Still having a meltdown but I will try to figure out my priorities. All the programs are strong so I'm not worried about deficits in training. I'm struggling with details like call schedule, moonlighting, col, and the most important thing- location. I do not like the location of my medical school and choosing where I'll be for the next four years and most likely where I'll practice is daunting.

You're making progress- no meltdown needed (or at least not about this)...

I think this process drives everyone a little nuts. Currently, I'm having a meltdown about not getting any love letters from my top choices, and I'm sure other people are having meltdowns about other issues.

I think the one exception is Splik, who seems to be keeping himself busy with making lists for the benefit of those who come after us...

 

[psychphan]

Thank you nitemagi & Saluki. I have 10 & 11 down so that's progress. Still having a meltdown but I will try to figure out my priorities. All the programs are strong so I'm not worried about deficits in training. I'm struggling with details like call schedule, moonlighting, col, and the most important thing- location. I do not like the location of my medical school and choosing where I'll be for the next four years and most likely where I'll practice is daunting.

If they are all strong programs that you would be happy at and location is the big issue, then I think your in a good situation. Personally, I think location has been the easiest thing for me to rank.

 

[pinkladies]

Does anyone remember if UW has a partial or complete EMR? And is there social services support in the ED 24/7?

 

[Leo Aquarius]

I agree, I thought Harbor-UCLA was a great program and loved the family feel and acute cases. LAX catchment sounds exciting. The residents all seemed well-trained and satisfied to various degrees with their training. Starting to see your own patient in your 2nd year is great. The facilities are older. It's just one main building that's about 10 floors, and a few single-story buildings around it. Great if you like things centralized. And the beach is right down the freeway. Torrance is nicely situated between LA and Orange County, but not a pretty area, although the air is cleaner than downtown LA. I also like the fact that you have access to NPI electives/clinics in the 4th year. The directors were great too.