Letter of intent, no acceptances

[Med Ed]

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How I feel after reading every post in this thread:

I am disappointed. I thought it was a affair.

 

[Imperius]

I am disappointed. I thought it was a affair.

Quite right. A group of people beating dead horses is more socially acceptable.

 

[KungFuPanda123]

Can someone post or link an example of an explicit statement to this effect?

Brown's waitlist e-mail:
"We encourage you to provide us with any additional information concerning your application and to confirm your continued interest in Alpert Medical School. We are more favorably disposed to extend offers to applicants for whom Brown is truly the top choice."

Not as explicit as Georgetown, but it's worded in such a way that a letter of intent, especially while holding an acceptance, seems absolutely essential to have a good shot at getting into the school. It also gives me the VIBE that if I'm on multiple waitlists (0 acceptances), I should still somehow make it clear to Brown that they are my #1 choice and that I intend to definitely matriculate there if given the chance (as opposed to choosing to matriculate at an alternate school that I'm on the waitlist at). Whether or not the LOI without acceptances helps is definitely questionable, but the way that Brown's letter was worded made it sound like they could easily "cull the herd" by only taking into consideration for acceptance the students who bother to send in a letter.

Overall, this thread has really run its full-course. People are arguing about 2 different things now. MaxP isn't wrong that SOME schools look favorably on LOI (e.g. Gtown, Brown, etc.). The adcoms here aren't wrong that MOST schools don't care about LOI. Whether or not a LOI helps if you are holding 0 acceptances is still up for debate... but I'm on the side that it helps with SOME schools (e.g. Gtown, Brown, etc.).

 

[GrapesofRath]

Gaaaah this is simply just not true. Please do not spread that GT has been ''famous for years'' for a policy that has been largely unseen by the interview pool, especially when you haven't interviewed yourself.

For one, it is not uncommon for schools to withdraw your application if they extend an II and receive no response after ample time has passed. Second, of the 12 schools I received IIs at, GT was one of the most accommodating of my hectic work schedule conflicting with interview dates.

Although I withdrew after receiving a cheaper offer elsewhere, I have to say that the staff at GT was fabulous. The only policy I disliked at GT is their requirement of post-interview LOIs (if you get waitlisted), but I suppose they can afford to do this when they have like 25% of the applicant pool applying there and they're looking for a specific fit.

Im glad you had a favorable experience with GT. Many many people have not. The thread everybody is referring to is a compliation over 15 years of peoples bad experiences with GT; you wont find any kind of compliation of anywhere near that many people complaining about one school both on SDN and off it. Not really much else to say here.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Brown's waitlist e-mail:
"We encourage you to provide us with any additional information concerning your application and to confirm your continued interest in Alpert Medical School. We are more favorably disposed to extend offers to applicants for whom Brown is truly the top choice."

Not as explicit as Georgetown, but it's worded in such a way that a letter of intent, especially while holding an acceptance, seems absolutely essential to have a good shot at getting into the school. It also gives me the VIBE that if I'm on multiple waitlists (0 acceptances), I should still somehow make it clear to Brown that they are my #1 choice and that I intend to definitely matriculate there if given the chance (as opposed to choosing to matriculate at an alternate school that I'm on the waitlist at). Whether or not the LOI without acceptances helps is definitely questionable, but the way that Brown's letter was worded made it sound like they could easily "cull the herd" by only taking into consideration for acceptance the students who bother to send in a letter.

Overall, this thread has really run its full-course. People are arguing about 2 different things now. MaxP isn't wrong that SOME schools look favorably on LOI (e.g. Gtown, Brown, etc.). The adcoms here aren't wrong that MOST schools don't care about LOI. Whether or not a LOI helps if you are holding 0 acceptances is still up for debate... but I'm on the side that it helps with SOME schools (e.g. Gtown, Brown, etc.).

The takeaway from this whole thread is incredibly simple

If a school asks for an LOI or suggests it will be helpful, send it.
If a school makes no mention of an LOI or asks for no updates, dont send it.
Dont assume because a school makes no mention of an LOI they want it. Only send it if that school explicitly encourages it.

 

[Goro]

This is very similar to how we do it at my school. Our scoring system is a tad different. We do tend to get pickier with candidates when we get March and beyond.

I'm at only one school and with rolling admission but here's how it goes:

After interview, the adcom members review the applications and each assigns a numeric score ranging from 1 (admit now) to 5 ("no way"). If there are large spans among the scores, the applicant is discussed. The applicants are then ranked by mean score and included in a master list of all interviewees to date and discussed again before a decision is made to admit now, save for later, or decline. The "admit now" group consists of about half of the number who will be eventually offered admission. This does not favor early applicants who might eventually get offers but not ahead of someone who is better but who interviews later as no decisions are made about the mushy middle until the end of the cycle so an excellent candidate at the end of the cycle will be admitted over someone who looked good early in the cycle but who was not good enough for a straight out offer..

Ditto this. And in all y years on the Adcom, applicants LOIs have never been mentioned to us once by the wily old Dean of Admissions.

There is no policy. You are faculty and a full member of the admissions committee, so you can do what you like.
?

 

[Nietzschelover]

Quite right. A group of people beating dead horses is more socially acceptable.

Your incisive and insightful contribution to the thread is duly noted and greatly appreciated.

 

[Med Ed]

Oh boy.

I said consider cases where LOIs are consistent with a school's policy/stance.

Does that mean they were lying? Maybe they meant all that about your school. Are you upset that she went elsewhere? Are you dumbfounded that with no acceptances she sent a LOI?

How many more of these are you going to do? I would guess that all twelve could really use an acceptance and I'd vote for the best of the bunch.

Why not just evaluate whatever he or she sends you just as you evaluated the rest of the app and/or in the context of his/her whole app?

Most schools have a "Why X?" in their secondaries and/or this is asked in interviews. Are you just as dismissive/suspicious when you read those answers? Doesn't the intelligent applicant apply to 15-20 or 20-25 schools because of the low odds of getting in any one school? Do you think all applicants are lying when they tell you how much they love your school and why in a secondary or in an interview?

Another question for you....an applicant hires you to advice him and he tells you he has no acceptances but is on a couple of WLs. What do you advise him to do? What if tells you he believes one of the schools was a top choice from the very beginning?

All of this is to say that LOI's have no intrinsic value because anyone can write them without regard to truth, and you find that out really quickly when you're the one getting saturation bombed by post-interview correspondence with a negligible signal to noise ratio.

The only potential objective value of a LOI is to use them as Georgetown does: a means to goad wait listed applicants who aren't interested into withdrawing. On some level I can't blame them, as there are few things more irritating from the institution's standpoint than people with multiple acceptances who don't withdraw until the last second.

 

[Nietzschelover]

1) Most schools have a "Why X?" in their secondaries and/or this is asked in interviews. Are you just as dismissive/suspicious when you read those answers? Doesn't the intelligent applicant apply to 15-20 or 20-25 schools because of the low odds of getting in any one school? Do you think all applicants are lying when they tell you how much they love your school and why in a secondary or in an interview?

2) Another question for you....an applicant hires you to advice him and he tells you he has no acceptances but is on a couple of WLs. What do you advise him to do? What if tells you he believes one of the schools was a top choice from the very beginning?

@Med Ed , in addition to posing scenarios that you challenge others to answer, do you also decline to answer to the same posed to yourself?

 

[Med Ed]

Brown's waitlist e-mail:
"We encourage you to provide us with any additional information concerning your application and to confirm your continued interest in Alpert Medical School. We are more favorably disposed to extend offers to applicants for whom Brown is truly the top choice."

What else would they say? That they are favorably disposed to applicants for whom Brown is not really the top choice? This statement is a plea for applicants to not lie, but it really has no meaning.

 

[Med Ed]

@Med Ed , in addition to posing scenarios that you challenge others to answer, do you also decline to answer to the same posed to yourself?

I'll get to it. I do have a life.

 

[Nietzschelover]

I'll get to it. I do have a life.

OK, will wait. Wouldn't want to think you are cherrypicking. And please include your response to the suggestion that no amount of data, which you kept asking for (I guess just rhetorically), would dent your rhetoric in the least, and indeed you would just use that data to re-affirm and double down on what you've been saying all along. Maybe you can also shed light on why MD experts in their books on the admissions process devote entire chapters to LOIs.

 

[KungFuPanda123]

What else would they say? That they are favorably disposed to applicants for whom Brown is not really the top choice? This statement is a plea for applicants to not lie, but it really has no meaning.

No, they would just say absolutely nothing to that regard. At the other 3 schools I was waitlisted at, they just said something along the lines of, "upload updates to the portal" or "send updates to [e-mail address]." They said nothing even remotely close to what Brown said.

You seem to have the weird idea that we all think that LOI are super crucial, contrary to what you believe. But we don't think that (at least I don't). All we're saying is that SOME schools are receptive to these types of letters and that they MAY HELP. I don't get how you're going to refute that when I now see 2 quotes from waitlist letters that do a pretty good job of demonstrating this. Again, to reiterate, I am not saying that ALL (or most) schools are receptive to these letters, and I am not saying that these letters will ALWAYS (or usually) help. I am saying that at SOME schools, they MAY help.

Like even look at this link to Brown's pre-med advising website:
https://www.brown.edu/academics/college/advising/health-careers/applicants/decisions#wait
"If you are wait-listed at a school you would like to attend, send a letter that thanks them for their consideration of your application and expresses your continued strong interest in their school. If your first-choice school wait lists you, tell them that you will definitely attend if you are admitted."

"Tell them that you will definitely attend if you are admitted."
That sounds like a letter of intent to me. It sounds like Brown is even encouraging their undergrads to do this at their respective med schools. Do you really think that Brown is not receptive to LOIs when they explicitly tell their undergrads to send them and suggest to their waitlisted med applicants to send them?
Yes, you can argue that they are implying to send a LOI only if you hold an acceptance at at least 1 school, but I really get the feeling that a school like Brown thinks that LOIs can be helpful regardless.

 

[MaxPlancker]

In b4 the storm.

OMG MAXP IS BACK! THIS IS JUST LIKE ALL WL APPLICANTS WHO SEND LOIS!!! THEY SAY ONE THING AND DO ANOTHER!!! --Med Ed

I would just like to point out that the best thing for you guys to do is to ignore Med Ed. His ego/pride has wounded his physician self and he is continuing to engage in this conversation to either 1) catch one of you in error and pounce on you to make himself feel better or 2) to troll/refuse to believe and understand what is being communicated to comfort himself. You may have noticed that when I responded to his posts, I left him no room whatsoever and thus he had no response. The best means of disallowing him the comfort that he seeks is to ignore him.

Pce broskis

 

[KungFuPanda123]

In b4 the storm.

OMG MAXP IS BACK! THIS IS JUST LIKE ALL WL APPLICANTS WHO SEND LOIS!!! THEY SAY ONE THING AND DO ANOTHER!!! --Med Ed

I would just like to point out that the best thing for you guys to do is to ignore Med Ed. His ego/pride has wounded his physician self and he is continuing to engage in this conversation to either 1) catch one of you in error and pounce on you to make himself feel better or 2) to troll/refuse to believe and understand what is being communicated to comfort himself. You may have noticed that when I responded to his posts, I left him no room whatsoever and thus he had no response. The best means of disallowing him the comfort that he seeks is to ignore him.

Pce broskis

I think that you're taking this a bit far and making this thread a more personal argument. I'm not saying that you are the only one to blame, but your fanning the flames isn't conducive to having a nice informative talk in this thread :/

 

[Med Ed]

You seem to have the weird idea that we all think that LOI are super crucial, contrary to what you believe. But we don't think that (at least I don't).

Back in the 1980's nobody even studied for the MCAT, if you can believe that. Now we live in an era where test-prep courses, hundreds of hours of shadowing, medical mission trips, and professional applications services are commonplace. The average age of matriculation has crept up as folks now routinely spend 1-2 gap years improving their applications. What's left? My money is on post-interview correspondence, as applicants will spend more time and money trying to game that final frontier.

From my side of the table I really do not want to see the day that applicants feel like LOI's are a necessary part of the process.

"Tell them that you will definitely attend if you are admitted."
That sounds like a letter of intent to me. It sounds like Brown is even encouraging their undergrads to do this at their respective med schools. Do you really think that Brown is not receptive to LOIs when they explicitly tell their undergrads to send them and suggest to their waitlisted med applicants to send them?
Yes, you can argue that they are implying to send a LOI only if you hold an acceptance at at least 1 school, but I really get the feeling that a school like Brown thinks that LOIs can be helpful regardless.

I should probably make a distinction between an LOI and an update. The former is simply a statement with no verifiable basis. The latter contains some factual information ("I published," I won an award," "my fiancé got a job near your school," etc.). If I were a medical school I would invite applicants to send me whatever they want. The former I would toss in the trash unless it contained something negative, the latter I would add to the process of consideration as appropriate.

This entire process is like a poker game, and both sides would like the other to tip their hand a bit.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Ill keep this response relatively short as a change up but a few things

1) Your desperation stands out if you are amongst the 10% of people who send an LOI with no acceptances. Anytime a negative characteristic stands out, not ideal. It's kind of like talking about those 3 C's you got sophmore year in your PS; highlighting a bad trait just brings on additional attention and thoughts about it.
2) We all know these applicants are desperate; how they react is telling. Are they begging for sympathy? Are they whining? Are they becoming unraveled? Sending an LOI could perhaps indicate some of these things(or at least in an ADCOMs mind they could even if you disagree).
3) Ive heard this more than once in another thread and talking to someone I know on the other side of things; the potential issue of entitlement. The "100's of people are on your waitlist, but you need to choose me" mentality. The "Look Im sending a letter, Im special, take me" type mentality. Again, whether you agree this is a valid perspective, there are those(even if they are in the minority) who might perceive this as such to some degree.
4) Being annoying: ADCOMs lives come waitlist season(which really starts as soon as decisions come out) are way too busy already. You're making someone spend a couple minutes to take the time to read something they already know is true and serves no purpose. Imagine getting a number of these, perhaps each day. It adds up; if you see the name of the person who sent the letter later in the cycle and the first thing you think of is that annoying feeling you had reading that letter during that busy day, again not ideal.

Grapo always gives the most reasoned response.

I dunno though. I still am tempted to send a LoI because I keep imagining the scenario in which an committee is deciding between accepting me or another person on the wait list and the LoI tips the balance in my favor.

Are we all agreed that post interview but pre wait list LoI's are bad?

 

[Med Ed]

Most schools have a "Why X?" in their secondaries and/or this is asked in interviews. Are you just as dismissive/suspicious when you read those answers? Doesn't the intelligent applicant apply to 15-20 or 20-25 schools because of the low odds of getting in any one school? Do you think all applicants are lying when they tell you how much they love your school and why in a secondary or in an interview?

When sifting through those responses I put them into one of three categories:
1. Those that contain elements which are verifiable in other parts of the application (e.g. the applicant has family here, or is interested in the school for a specific academic strength)
2. Those that contain the usual platitudes which may or may not reflect reality
3. Those that contain something negative

1's make you feel good about the response, 2's are by far the most common, and to me have a net zero impact on the application, 3's can spoil the mood.

Another question for you....an applicant hires you to advice him and he tells you he has no acceptances but is on a couple of WLs. What do you advise him to do? What if tells you he believes one of the schools was a top choice from the very beginning?

I always tell people in this situation the same thing: talk to the schools when you have something to say. By that I do not mean thinly-veiled begging.

 

[gyngyn]

Are we all agreed that post interview but pre wait list LoI's are bad?

This reeks of desperation. Don't do it.

 

[neekzg]

If I can quickly hijack the thread: if you're writing an update letter/letter of interest to a school that has expressed that they are receptive to such letters, is it wise to include the fact that you've been accepted elsewhere? Or does that only help if the school you've been accepted to is higher ranked than the school you are writing a letter to? In my case, I've been accepted to a school OOS but for personal reasons would like to stay closer to home at a school I've been waitlisted at. Thanks for any input~

 

[gyngyn]

If I can quickly hijack the thread: if you're writing an update letter/letter of interest to a school that has expressed that they are receptive to such letters, is it wise to include the fact that you've been accepted elsewhere? Or does that only help if the school you've been accepted to is higher ranked than the school you are writing a letter to? In my case, I've been accepted to a school OOS but for personal reasons would like to stay closer to home at a school I've been waitlisted at. Thanks for any input~

There is no need to do this. We can see where you are holding acceptances on March 15th.

 

[Med Ed]

I keep imagining the scenario in which an committee is deciding between accepting me or another person on the wait list and the LoI tips the balance in my favor.

Yes, we typically do this right after awarding all the bonus points to applicants who say they want to do rural primary care.

 

[Nietzschelover]

When sifting through those responses I put them into one of three categories:
1. Those that contain elements which are verifiable in other parts of the application (e.g. the applicant has family here, or is interested in the school for a specific academic strength)
2. Those that contain the usual platitudes which may or may not reflect reality
3. Those that contain something negative

1's make you feel good about the response, 2's are by far the most common, and to me have a net zero impact on the application, 3's can spoil the mood.



I always tell people in this situation the same thing: talk to the schools when you have something to say. By that I do not mean thinly-veiled begging.

Isn't it implied in having something to say that at some level you need the school? Why else would you be communicating at all?

Regarding #1 above -- the "Why X?" that you like -- isn't it presumed that the applicant is writing similar things to the other 25 schools applied to and referencing any reasonable credible connection and scouring the school websites for whatever they can identify with as reasons why they want to pick your school?

My point in asking you these questions is what do you really expect when applicants by necessity (and frankly as advised here on SDN) MUST apply to a ton of schools to maximize chances of getting in at least one? After all, isn't that what this discussion (and most discussions here) are about.....how to maximize getting an acceptance?

I like your other post and will respond separately.

 

[Med Ed]

Isn't it implied in having something to say that at some level you need the school? Why else would you be communicating at all?

I mean something in the vein of the LOI vs. update distinction I made above.

 

[Nietzschelover]

Back in the 1980's nobody even studied for the MCAT, if you can believe that. Now we live in an era where test-prep courses, hundreds of hours of shadowing, medical mission trips, and professional applications services are commonplace. The average age of matriculation has crept up as folks now routinely spend 1-2 gap years improving their applications. What's left? My money is on post-interview correspondence, as applicants will spend more time and money trying to game that final frontier.

From my side of the table I really do not want to see the day that applicants feel like LOI's are a necessary part of the process.



I should probably make a distinction between an LOI and an update. The former is simply a statement with no verifiable basis. The latter contains some factual information ("I published," I won an award," "my fiancé got a job near your school," etc.). If I were a medical school I would invite applicants to send me whatever they want. The former I would toss in the trash unless it contained something negative, the latter I would add to the process of consideration as appropriate.

This entire process is like a poker game, and both sides would like the other to tip their hand a bit.

My gut reaction is EXACTLY! I like this post, although we might not agree on the reasons why.

As you suggest, the process and requirements to be competitive nowadays have reached a point where surely many consider just walking away and going straight into a 85-100K BME job. An arms race has been created with no end in sight and with rising medians, not just with respect to GPA and MCAT, and also rising medians in terms of ECs in all the key areas, plus still leaving room for something special that an applicant can sell beyond meeting whatever the current medians are. In this environment, it is not surprising at all that applicants scour for every little edge they can get -- all the the way from asking for app submission and complete dates every time someone gets a II or acceptance, to such and such schools really look for XYZ, to updates, to LOIs, and all the rest.

In terms of the poker game, your "both sides" characterization I think distorts things just a bit. The power dynamics are 99% in favor of the schools.

 

[HIFU]

There is no need to do this. We can see where you are holding acceptances on March 15th.

In this case, do Adcoms always check acceptances from WL students before issuing an offer? Let's say student A has 2 acceptances, while B has none. Which student is more likely to get off WL assuming the rest of their applications are similar (and no LOI)?

 

[gyngyn]

In this case, do Adcoms always check acceptances from WL students before issuing an offer? Let's say student A has 2 acceptances, while B has none. Which student is more likely to get off WL assuming the rest of their applications are similar (and no LOI)?

Our school does. One would be foolish not to do so unless the school has a strictly ranked waitlist. Besides, it's good preparation for later in the cycle when we will be required to inform the school when we are planning a poach.
The applicant with a stronger endorsement from the committee would get the offer. A waitlister who offsets a developing lopsidedness would also be a strong consideration (way too many of one sex, for example).

 

[Nietzschelover]

Our school does. One would be foolish not to do so unless the school has a strictly ranked waitlist. Besides, it's good preparation for later in the cycle when we will be required to inform the school when we are planning a poach.
The applicant with a stronger endorsement from the committee would get the offer. A waitlister who offsets a developing lopsidedness would also be a strong consideration (way too many of one sex, for example).

I think what @HIFU was asking is when you see similarly competitive candidate B with zero acceptances vs candidate A with 2-3 acceptances, does the fact that candidate B has zero so far cause you (and/or your cmte) pause, like you must have missed something in thinking highly of candidate B and then thereby decide not to make an offer to candidate B? Put a bit differently, when you are otherwise about to say YES to a candidate and then notice that she has no acceptances yet does that fact make you less likely to take the candidate?

 

[gyngyn]

I think what @HIFU was asking is when you see similarly competitive candidate B with zero acceptances vs candidate A with 2-3 acceptances, does the fact that candidate B has zero so far cause you (and/or your cmte) pause, like you must have missed something in thinking highly of candidate B and then thereby decide not to make an offer to candidate B? Put a bit differently, when you are otherwise about to say YES to a candidate and then notice that she has no acceptances yet does that fact make you less likely to take the candidate?

Every year we see really terrible applicants accepted at some very fine schools. We trust our assessment over another school's every time.

 

[Nietzschelover]

Every year we see really terrible applicants accepted at some very fine schools. We trust our assessment over another school's every time.

So if you like a candidate seeing that he has zero acceptances doesn't phase you.

 

[LizzyM]

So if you like a candidate seeing that he has zero acceptances doesn't phase you.

If we like a candidate, it could be that the candidate is a good fit with our school but not a good fit at other schools (not interested in the mission, came across as uncomfortable in the geographic environment) or was cocky and/or misinformed and/or poor and applied to only 5 or 6 schools and thus as not yet received an offer. If we like a candidate and that candidate has no other offers, lucky for us!

 

[Mad Jack]

In a letter of intent, should I mention that I'm preparing for reapplication? It's at a high ranked school, where they actually stated during the interview that they were sure anyone who made it there would get in somewhere. I worry that it will make my application look weaker since I haven't yet.

It literally sounds like a beggar trying to be a chooser, don't do this.

 

[gyngyn]

So if you like a candidate seeing that he has zero acceptances doesn't phase you.

Not a bit!

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Thank you for your prompt response and for accepting a spot on the alternate list at Mayo Medical School. Any significant updates and letters of intent submitted will be added to your file for consideration. The committee will contact you when the status of your application is updated.

This is what I got from Mayo this cycle. Pretty explicit.

That is not a request for a LOI, though. All it says is that any info you send will be added to your file.

 

[MaxPlancker]

That is not a request for a LOI, though. All it says is that any info you send will be added to your file.

Well, you seem to be new to the thread so here's my response:

On the table in this discussion is what to do about schools that explicitly state they accept and/or want LOIs.

Can someone post or link an example of an explicit statement to this effect?

 

[Med Ed]

That is not a request for a LOI, though. All it says is that any info you send will be added to your file.

Yes, I suspected that most of the "welcoming" of post-interview correspondence would actually be mere statements of policy or procedure, like Mayo's. No surprise that GT is an outlier.

 

[Nietzschelover]

That is not a request for a LOI, though. All it says is that any info you send will be added to your file.

The quote you quoted from Mayo included "Any significant updates and letters of intent submitted will be added to your file for consideration."

Now we can parse words and debate semantics all day and night, but I think most readers would fairly think that applicants reading that might very fairly take that as a very strong hint.

 

[Nietzschelover]

Yes, I suspected that most of the "welcoming" of post-interview correspondence would actually be mere statements of policy or procedure, like Mayo's. No surprise that GT is an outlier.

I wouldn't say outlier. At the least, GT is part of a minority significant enough not to be dismissed without a second thought.

 

[Nietzschelover]

If we like a candidate, it could be that the candidate is a good fit with our school but not a good fit at other schools (not interested in the mission, came across as uncomfortable in the geographic environment) or was cocky and/or misinformed and/or poor and applied to only 5 or 6 schools and thus as not yet received an offer. If we like a candidate and that candidate has no other offers, lucky for us!

Glad to hear it!

 

[Med Ed]

The power dynamics are 99% in favor of the schools.

It certainly seems that way from the applicant's standpoint. From ours there is a large but finite number of strong candidates, and the better they are the more competitive they will be at other institutions. When a candidate has a choice to make the power dynamics reverse pretty dramatically.

 

[Med Ed]

The quote you quoted from Mayo included "Any significant updates and letters of intent submitted will be added to your file for consideration."

Now we can parse words and debate semantics all day and night, but I think most readers would fairly think that applicants reading that might very fairly take that as a very strong hint.

No, truly, it's a way to keep the people in admissions who answer the phones from committing mass suicide.

 

[Nietzschelover]

No, truly, it's a way to keep the people in admissions who answer the phones from committing mass suicide.

Sorry, you can't have this one. Schools, as some do, can very clearly state "We DO NOT accept LOIs. DO NOT send them." Surely the adcom at Mayo is sophisticated enough to decide what to include in statements published where they know applicants hang on every word. You think they include that in their statement to save the admin staff? The link between allowing/encouraging LOIs and cutting down on phone calls doesn't even make any obvious intuitive sense. This is an instance where you should simply and graciously endorse that Mayo probably supports/likes/encourages LOIs.

 

[Nietzschelover]

It certainly seems that way from the applicant's standpoint. From ours there is a large but finite number of strong candidates, and the better they are the more competitive they will be at other institutions. When a candidate has a choice to make the power dynamics reverse pretty dramatically.

A pretty absurd stance (i.e. are there any US MD schools at risk for not filling their classes?), but to the extent that there is any truth at all in your post perhaps your school and others would benefit in this regard if the process was friendlier and easier to navigate for applicants who have reason to be concerned about being shut out when a large portion of schools have overall admit rates lower than 5% and in many cases where the most realistic choices given their stats/profile are less than 3%.

 

[MaxPlancker]

The quote you quoted from Mayo included "Any significant updates and letters of intent submitted will be added to your file for consideration."

Now we can parse words and debate semantics all day and night, but I think most readers would fairly think that applicants reading that might very fairly take that as a very strong hint.

Yep, in fact Dr. Romanski tells you straight up on interview day to send a LOI if you are serious about remaining on the alt list. If we read too literally, then I don't see how the mere act of sending a LOI can be seen as desperate rather than of interest/intent lol.

 

[GrapesofRath]

This is an instance where you should simply and graciously endorse that Mayo probably supports/likes/encourages LOIs.

I dont know if they necessairly like LOIs. I think the better conclusion is it wont hurt you if you send one unless the letter is piss poor quality or comes across poorly. You have to remember what gonnif stated in the beginning; the odds of an LOI hurting you arent high at all to begin with. By far and away the most likely outcome if you send on is itll have zero impact. It's just the chance it has to hurt you isnt non existent the way most applicants think it is. But for Mayo, I think the best conclusion is the mere sending of an LOI is very unlikely to hurt someone. Actively encourage/support an LOI though? Not sure if I see that here.

Even gyngyn has said there are circumstances an LOI can be worthwhile. If an applicant who is waitlisted at Mayo has acceptances at Harvard and Yale but wants to go to Mayo, an LOI might be beneficial there potentially. As much as anything the school isnt excluding the possibility that an LOI can possibly be helpful in some instances. It's just those instances might not be very common.

 

[MaxPlancker]

I dont know if they necessairly like LOIs. I think the better conclusion is it wont hurt you if you send one unless the letter is piss poor quality or comes across poorly. You have to remember what gonnif stated in the beginning; the odds of an LOI hurting you arent high at all to begin with. By far and away the most likely outcome if you send on is itll have zero impact. It's just the chance it has to hurt you isnt non existent the way most applicants think it is. But for Mayo, I think the best conclusion is the mere sending of an LOI is very unlikely to hurt someone. Actively encourage/support an LOI though? Not sure if I see that here.

They do actively support and encourage LOIs. And they take LOIs very seriously there--this I know 100%. MS2 friend there involved in admissions says though the alt list is unranked, it is pseudo-unranked. Those who send in LOIs (assuming they aren't a poor one) are put higher. And the chair, Dr. Romanski tells you on interview day, directly, that LOIs should be sent to remain in serious consideration on the alt list. Not sure what more anyone could want in terms of knowing Mayo's stance.

 

[Affiche]

If we like a candidate, it could be that the candidate is a good fit with our school but not a good fit at other schools (not interested in the mission, came across as uncomfortable in the geographic environment) or was cocky and/or misinformed and/or poor and applied to only 5 or 6 schools and thus as not yet received an offer. If we like a candidate and that candidate has no other offers, lucky for us!

What about a waitlisted candidate who has other offers? Are you less likely to give an offer to a waitlisted candidate knowing they have an acceptance elsewhere than someone you liked just as well who holds zero acceptances?

 

[Nietzschelover]

I dont know if they necessairly like LOIs. I think the better conclusion is it wont hurt you if you send one unless the letter is piss poor quality or comes across poorly. You have to remember what gonnif stated in the beginning; the odds of an LOI hurting you arent high at all to begin with. By far and away the most likely outcome if you send on is itll have zero impact. It's just the chance it has to hurt you isnt non existent the way most applicants think it is. But for Mayo, I think the best conclusion is the mere sending of an LOI is very unlikely to hurt someone. Actively encourage/support an LOI though? Not sure if I see that here.

I would agree that the likelihood of a LOI in most cases is likely marginal. That said, Mayo didn't have to put those words in their statement. Why would they do that? Do you imagine they did that sloppily or in some accidental, unintended way. If they simply were neutral they could have stayed silent on the topic. Surely you believe they are smart enough to know that including those words would encourage LOIs from the overall group of neurotic, worried applicants who they know are looking for the exact wording or whether there is any wording at all.

 

[Affiche]

They do actively support and encourage LOIs. And they take LOIs very seriously there--this I know 100%. MS2 friend there involved in admissions says though the alt list is unranked, it is pseudo-unranked. Those who send in LOIs (assuming they aren't a poor one) are put higher. And the chair, Dr. Romanski tells you on interview day, directly, that LOIs should be sent to remain in serious consideration on the alt list. Not sure what more anyone could want in terms of knowing Mayo's stance.

Idt Grapes has even applied yet and is basing his info off what he reads on SDN rather than what schools have explicitly communicated to him. Like you, I have had multiple schools heavily emphasize to send updates and LOIs if we are serious about attending. I've also had schools state not to send those things. It depends on the school and what they tell you (not what SDN tells you).

 

[Nietzschelover]

They do actively support and encourage LOIs. And they take LOIs very seriously there--this I know 100%. MS2 friend there involved in admissions says though the alt list is unranked, it is pseudo-unranked. Those who send in LOIs (assuming they aren't a poor one) are put higher. And the chair, Dr. Romanski tells you on interview day, directly, that LOIs should be sent to remain in serious consideration on the alt list. Not sure what more anyone could want in terms of knowing Mayo's stance.

The adcoms here simply do not want to hear this. You saying it is for them like a dream that never happened.