Life Management Questions

[Unusual1]

I have recently begun thinking again about med school and medicine as a career. I am nearly 32 and would not be able to begin for three years (one more year to finish an MBA and two years of prereqs and the MCAT). I have a good nontrad background to make the rest of the application interesting to the adcoms. I have thought about medicine for much of my life (I grew up rounding with my father) but wrote it off because of the costs associated with it. Recently some people have motivated me to look more closely at those costs, which led me here, and the things I see here make it look like more of a real possibility. That leads to the issue at hand. I am dating a wonderful woman with whom I may have a future. I discussed the med school possibility with her the other night and we share some concerns. How possible is it to start a family while in med school/residency? From the financial side, how long does it take to sort of "catch up" between loans and lost earning time, given that I'd finish training around age age 43 (right now I am interested in emergency medicine)? With my MBA I would have access to some lucrative careers, but medicine could provide the work satasfaction that some of the other possibilities may not. At the same time, I want to be able to provide for a family and perhaps give a future wife the opportunity to pursue some academic dreams of her own (PhD). One possibility includes the military scholarships (I already have 7 years service as an officer towards retirement). I'm just looking for some people to give their thoughts, maybe fill in some blanks, maybe provide some anecdotes that could be good discussion points or points of consideration for my girlfriend and I. Thanks in advance.

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[Bubblehead-to-MD]

How possible is it to start a family while in med school/residency? From the financial side, how long does it take to sort of "catch up" between loans and lost earning time, given that I'd finish training around age age 43 (right now I am interested in emergency medicine)? One possibility includes the military scholarships (I already have 7 years service as an officer towards retirement).

Are you considering USUHS as a viable option? I know several people who started families while they were in school there, and were definitely able to make ends meet. The key for you will be to do as much financial preparation as you can prior to starting med school. Do you need to participate in a full-time post-bacc, or do you think you can do part-time (just a couple of courses here and there)?

Having an income throughout med school and residency can be a big plus. I know you wouldn't make as much after that, but with your seven years towards retirement, it may be worth consideration for you.

 

[Unusual1]

Are you considering USUHS as a viable option? I know several people who started families while they were in school there, and were definitely able to make ends meet. The key for you will be to do as much financial preparation as you can prior to starting med school. Do you need to participate in a full-time post-bacc, or do you think you can do part-time (just a couple of courses here and there)?

Having an income throughout med school and residency can be a big plus. I know you wouldn't make as much after that, but with your seven years towards retirement, it may be worth consideration for you.

Actually, I am a full time MBA student now so I don't have an income today and will not for at least the next year. I could probably have some level of income as I completed the 8 courses and labs needed as prereqs. In a perfect world I would be able to get into the local area med school and either take out loans, use the military scholarships, or sell my current home to fund much of med school (the upside of the real estate boom). Ideally I could stay local because, assuming my girlfriend and I stay together, she has a good job and good job security and we both have our families here for support. I understand that's sort of idealistic. As for the military med school, I had not really considered that yet, mainly because of the scholarship opportunities available and I don't feel like being an O-1 again full time when I am about to make O-4 in the reserves (more than likely, anyway). Mainly my concern is with the logistics of family life during school and residency and the ability to catch up financially.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

Finishing residency at 43 wouldn't be an issue to me (I'm starting medical school in August at age 44). I believe that a non-traditional should become a doctor only for one reason - you've explored all other career possibilities but you can no longer imagine a life outside medicine - that's why I'm going at my age after 20 years as a healthcare finance CPA.

I see a certain ambivalence in your post that is worrisome. You haven't finished your MBA yet - and you don't know where that MBA will take you nor how much you'll like a business career. You have someone important in your life - and that is a time committment. I can't over-emphasize how difficult it is to complete pre-reqs and the MCAT as a non-traditional if you're working - and I was in a very secure job, not at the beginning of my career. Getting ready for medical school as an adult was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life - work 40-50 hours, then go to class and usually not get home until 10pm or later - and start over the next day, hopefully getting homework and labs written somewhere along the way. It can be done, but it takes an incredible determination - and it will stress everything else in your life a great deal.

Perhaps you should consider finishing your MBA and working for a couple of years - you could do a few pre-req classes at night if you wanted to, and take them slowly. By then you'll probably know where your family life is going to go - and, trust me, if medicine is your calling, it will call you back sooner or later. I believe that getting into medical school after age 40 can be very difficult, but you still have plenty of time. Best of luck to you.

 

[Unusual1]

Thanks for the advice. I will definately be finishing my MBA over the next year and will take that time to gather information and make a decision. As I look at what is open to me after completing my MBA none of it seems as "appetizing" as medicine. I have actually worked on my MBA in a part time capacity over the last year, so I know the deeling of fighting full time work and hours of night classes and homework. If I choose to pursue medicine, I will likely look to find a less demanding job to work while completing the prereqs and go from there. I figure it would take two years. What are your thoughts regarding starting a family through all this?

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

LOL... sounds like you've got a very level head and a good plan. I can't say that I haven't enjoyed my years in business - actually, I've had a terrific and rewarding career in healthcare - it just has become time to move on to something else where I can contribute more one-on-one (and, for me, the hour was growing quite late for medical school, which was a 10-year-old dream). On the family issue - actually, I'm a committed bachelor who sleeps with the German Shepherd at left every night (and I felt guilty leaving her alone at night as much as I had to while I was in class) - so I'll leave that one to those who know! I can tell you that I take care of my 80-year-old mom - it's tough, but I manage.

 

[Unusual1]

My girlfriend may not be so sure I have a level head...haha!

Anyway, I need to give this all some more thought over the next year and include some thought about the military med school.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

 

[Scottish Chap]

I have recently begun thinking again about med school and medicine as a career. I am nearly 32 and would not be able to begin for three years (one more year to finish an MBA and two years of prereqs and the MCAT). I have a good nontrad background to make the rest of the application interesting to the adcoms. I have thought about medicine for much of my life (I grew up rounding with my father) but wrote it off because of the costs associated with it. Recently some people have motivated me to look more closely at those costs, which led me here, and the things I see here make it look like more of a real possibility. That leads to the issue at hand. I am dating a wonderful woman with whom I may have a future. I discussed the med school possibility with her the other night and we share some concerns. How possible is it to start a family while in med school/residency? From the financial side, how long does it take to sort of "catch up" between loans and lost earning time, given that I'd finish training around age age 43 (right now I am interested in emergency medicine)? With my MBA I would have access to some lucrative careers, but medicine could provide the work satasfaction that some of the other possibilities may not. At the same time, I want to be able to provide for a family and perhaps give a future wife the opportunity to pursue some academic dreams of her own (PhD). One possibility includes the military scholarships (I already have 7 years service as an officer towards retirement). I'm just looking for some people to give their thoughts, maybe fill in some blanks, maybe provide some anecdotes that could be good discussion points or points of consideration for my girlfriend and I. Thanks in advance.

I think that as long as medical school doesn’t define you as a person, you'll be fine. Too many people shed their outside interests and spend time only with other medical students talking about medicine. I made a conscious decision not to do this. It’s all about staying balanced but I must stress that, if there is a ‘significant other’, their support is almost critical to your own success and peace of mind as you embark on this path. I, too, finished prereq's and took the MCAT while working in an extremely demanding career and it pretty much consumed 18 months of my life. That was the hardest part for me thus far (just finished MSI).

I had similar anxieties in that leaving a very promising career where I was just starting to make a reputation for myself and leaving clear financial security while thinking about starting a family (I am married with a child on the way) seemed impossible. In the end, I reasoned that I will be ten years older anyway and there really is no ‘best’ time to start a family. You just do it. I targeted my application very closely to specific medical schools where the cost of living is reasonable and conducive to a happy family life. I ended up going to a very affordable medical school and we bought our first house right before classes started (mortgage is almost half of what we paid in rent in our last city), and it all worked out.

You’re looking AT LEAST at a seven-year commitment and perhaps a ten-year commitment just to get the education and training, and that’s not even thinking about the educational debt or the demands of this career for the rest of your natural life. When people ask me for advice, I usually say they should only do this if they are absolutely sure that they want this career more than anything. There are many other careers out there that allow a comfortable living and intellectual challenges while avoiding type of stress that a medical career demands. Good luck!

 

[Unusual1]

I think that as long as medical school doesn’t define you as a person, you'll be fine. Too many people shed their outside interests and spend time only with other medical students talking about medicine. I made a conscious decision not to do this. It’s all about staying balanced but I must stress that, if there is a ‘significant other’, their support is almost critical to your own success and peace of mind as you embark on this path. I, too, finished prereq's and took the MCAT while working in an extremely demanding career and it pretty much consumed 18 months of my life. That was the hardest part for me thus far (just finished MSI).

I had similar anxieties in that leaving a very promising career where I was just starting to make a reputation for myself and leaving clear financial security while thinking about starting a family (I am married with a child on the way) seemed impossible. In the end, I reasoned that I will be ten years older anyway and there really is no ‘best’ time to start a family. You just do it. I targeted my application very closely to specific medical schools where the cost of living is reasonable and conducive to a happy family life. I ended up going to a very affordable medical school and we bought our first house right before classes started (mortgage is almost half of what we paid in rent in our last city), and it all worked out.

You’re looking AT LEAST a seven-year commitment and perhaps a ten-year commitment just to get the education and training, and that’s not even thinking about the educational debt or the demands of this career for the rest of your natural life. When people ask me for advice, I usually say they should only do this if they are absolutely sure that they want this career more than anything. There are many other careers out there that allow a comfortable living and intellectual challenges while avoiding type of stress that a medical career demands. Good luck!

Thanks! I am taking all of this in, and what makes it more nerve-wracking is that I am a full time student (again) now and will need two years to knock out prereqs, take the MCAT, and start classes (assuming I got in on the first try). Given my past military experience, USUHS is looking more and more attractive.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Read over the military medicine forums and you'll get mixed reviews about the lifestyle. You can have a family no matter what med school you go to it all about life balance.

 

[Unusual1]

Read over the military medicine forums and you'll get mixed reviews about the lifestyle. You can have a family no matter what med school you go to it all about life balance.

Thanks. I have been looking through that forum as well. Right now I am just collecting information and weighing options. I have another year before I could even take my first prereq, so I am three years from my earlies potential enrollment in med school. I had some good conversations with my girlfriend about these things and she is supportive so far, which is definately a big piece of the puzzle. There are still a LOT of variables to work out (not the least of which is this damn monte carlo simulation model I am building for a class in my MBA program, haha!). The benefit of the military side of things is that I have a number of years towards a military retirement as it is, and even more years for pay purposes. I would make more than the average person stepping from college to military medicine, and would be eligible to retire from the military when I finished my obligated service if I went to USUHS, or about three years after my obligation with one of the scholarship or repayment programs, giving me retirement pay and health benefits for life. Not a bad deal in that respect. My father is a retired Navy surgeon and I have served, and my girlfriend was an Army brat growing up and works as a civilian for the Navy now, so we are pretty comfortable with the military lifestyle.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Then you won't have a problem. I only warn those who DON'T know about it. I had a friend who's father was an Army Doc. He retired and now does private consulting while still getting his nice pension. My husband and I have considered doing military but for our goals and how different we are in career paths (he's graduation med school next year and I'm not even in yet) it would be hard. Also I just graduated with my MBA and I'm doing prereqs and GPA damage control so I feel your dilemma

 

[Unusual1]

Then you won't have a problem. I only warn those who DON'T know about it. I had a friend who's father was an Army Doc. He retired and now does private consulting while still getting his nice pension. My husband and I have considered doing military but for our goals and how different we are in career paths (he's graduation med school next year and I'm not even in yet) it would be hard. Also I just graduated with my MBA and I'm doing prereqs and GPA damage control so I feel your dilemma

What sort of post-MBA work are you doing while working on prereqs? How do you think the MBA will play with adcoms?

I'll be going GPA damage control from my undergrad 2.94 (and crappy science grades from the two required classes I had to take freshman year when I didn't care about school). I'll have to take all the prereqs and smoke them, and then nail the MCAT. I suppose for a lesser trick I could solve world hunger or something during a study break.

 

[medworm]

What sort of post-MBA work are you doing while working on prereqs? How do you think the MBA will play with adcoms?

I'm under the impression, from my interviews, that adcoms don't really care for an MBA or other education credentials unless it's esoteric. They definitely like leadership experience, so if you somehow demonstrated that in the course of your MBA education -- mention it somewhere in your application.

 

[mshheaddoc]

What sort of post-MBA work are you doing while working on prereqs? How do you think the MBA will play with adcoms?

I'll be going GPA damage control from my undergrad 2.94 (and crappy science grades from the two required classes I had to take freshman year when I didn't care about school). I'll have to take all the prereqs and smoke them, and then nail the MCAT. I suppose for a lesser trick I could solve world hunger or something during a study break.

As medworm said, MBA gets mixed messages. My top choice has the Dean who's a DO/MBA and pushes the MBA program for growth so that might be a positive. There are definite positive spins. Right now I'm just doing strictly science stuff. I'd like to do some healthcare admin. intern stuff but honestly don't have the time. Maybe with in the next few years while applying. I got a MBA with healthcare management concentration. I took a health policy class, health management class and healthcare finance class. I wish I could have taken more or went to a specialized program. I'm sure I will forget most of what I learned (or supposedly learned).

I'm doing a masters degree in micro/immuno starting fall '07 hopefully and then applying to med school. Trying to boost an undergrad gpa which was MUCH lower than yours. But hey, I know a friend who started UHUHS who had a 2.5 gpa and brought it up with 60 credit hours of upper level sciences so it can be done.

 

[Unusual1]

As medworm said, MBA gets mixed messages. My top choice has the Dean who's a DO/MBA and pushes the MBA program for growth so that might be a positive. There are definite positive spins. Right now I'm just doing strictly science stuff. I'd like to do some healthcare admin. intern stuff but honestly don't have the time. Maybe with in the next few years while applying. I got a MBA with healthcare management concentration. I took a health policy class, health management class and healthcare finance class. I wish I could have taken more or went to a specialized program. I'm sure I will forget most of what I learned (or supposedly learned).

I'm doing a masters degree in micro/immuno starting fall '07 hopefully and then applying to med school. Trying to boost an undergrad gpa which was MUCH lower than yours. But hey, I know a friend who started UHUHS who had a 2.5 gpa and brought it up with 60 credit hours of upper level sciences so it can be done.

That's encouraging! I don't have a college level science background (nobody gives credit for 5.5 years of pharmaceutical sales) so I doubt I could get into a post-bacc program, even though EVMS nearby has one. If I decide to go this route, I will try to knock out the prereqs and the MCAT and go for it. Maybe I ought to then apply for post-bacc masters programs at the same time. I don't know yet.

As for leadership type experience, I have been an Army Infantry platoon leader and company executive officer, and I have been an officer candidate school instructor among my military assignments. I've also been something of a trainer in my sales jobs. I would hope that should cover the leadership issues, for any adcom without some prejudice against the military (I am sure they are out there).

 

[mshheaddoc]

most post-baccs will allow you with just the science pre-reqs although some say its not really advised (well if you do well in prereqs I might do it). You can always enroll for some upper level classes as a 2nd degree student (i didn't intend on finishing the degree but I got an extra year of funding from the federal gov't ) I also would suggest all science classes you could take at a community college/regional college. Micro, physiology, biochem, cell bio, histology, immuno... etc

seriously there are SOOO many routes to get to med school. Don't be disuaded by the time frame. You will have your time. Many people have this a second career and the best part is you can still work part time as you're older and still make a decent living. I know MANY doctors who do that or work in other capacities other than practice.

 

[Unusual1]

Thanks for the encouragement. I will be mulling this over for the next year to decide if I want to tackle this, so I will be in and out of these forums. One nice bit of news is that I may have stumbled into a not-so-demanding job that pays enough for me to live, limiting how much debt I take on in finishing my MBA. We'll have to see how that works out.