Light therapy & delayed sleep phase syndrome?

[runx]

I'm pretty sure I have delayed sleep phase syndrome or something of similar nature. I don't want to bog my question down with a history of my sleep problems but I'll just say that its a fairly serious problem and I've tried many of the common lifestyle changes and remedies including pharmaceuticals.

I have only received a little formal education on sleep phases at this point so my terminology will be shaky here. I do remember learning that there are ways (in normal people at least) to shift the sleep wake cycle. I have read about people with sleep issues that use light therapy early in the morning to 'establish' their circadian clocks, so that when nighttime comes their body starts to naturally settle down... When 10pm rolls around, their brains are actually ready to turn off (I wonder what this is like).

Anyway, the units are kind of expensive so I thought I'd first ask if anyone has had any success with light therapy or thinks its a total farce. Thanks!

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[searun]

That must totally suck. My head hits the pillow and in 5 minutes, I am out for 8 or 9 hours unless I set my alarm clock. My dreams are great, it is like getting to watch a great movie for a quarter. We need more sleep docs...it is a huge problem. Good luck.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

I only remember light therapy being used for people with Seasonal Affective Disorder. I had a patient during my psych rotation who said it worked for him (for his depressive symptoms), but not sure about how if affected his sleep 😕

I say go for it if you can dish out the bucks. I think we all need a little more light IMHO 🙂

 

[starfishprime]

I'm pretty sure I have delayed sleep phase syndrome or something of similar nature. I don't want to bog my question down with a history of my sleep problems but I'll just say that its a fairly serious problem and I've tried many of the common lifestyle changes and remedies including pharmaceuticals.

How severe are we talking? By "pretty sure" do you mean you've studied yourself in sufficient detail to know that you're not just used to staying up late from necessity? Habits can be hard to break.

Anyway, my sleep schedule generally entailed sleeping from 5am-3pm, if allowed free reign of it. I survived by scheduling must-attend classes for the late afternoon and evening. Morning exams were handled by simply staying up extra late. Melatonin 3mg taken at around midnight generally allowed me to get to sleep by 2am, but still allowed free reign I'd sleep until 3pm and waking up before noon was difficult.

At some point last fall, I progressed to non-24-hour sleep-wake syndrome. Today I slept from 2am-11am, yesterday I slept from 12am-9:30am, the day before that, 10:30pm-7am, and so forth. At the end of May, I isolated myself in my apartment, covered the windows, unplugged the clocks, and slept freely for 7 days, only checking the time before sleep and upon waking. My "day" is roughly 26.5 hours long. Fortunately, I do much of my work from home, and school-wise I did my best to schedule sleep such that I was awake during important times.

Though inconvenient, I find it fairly easy to manage at this juncture. My best luck (I've not tried phototherapy) has been what I later learned is called controlled sleep-deprivation w/ phase advance. Basically, I'd just stay up >24 hours until ~7pm Sunday night, at which point the advances in daily schedule are manageable over a week-long period.

Best of luck.

 

[runx]

How severe are we talking? By "pretty sure" do you mean you've studied yourself in sufficient detail to know that you're not just used to staying up late from necessity? Habits can be hard to break.

Hey, thanks for your response. I haven't run a study on myself to the extent that you have - although it would be helpful to see how long my internal day is when external signals are barred and I'm free running. Both of the above quoted statements were mostly just meant to suggest that my situation is not acute and that though I appreciate any input, I have tried and (in some cases) continue to practice common suggestions such as (exercise, nutrition..).

Anyway, my sleep schedule generally entailed sleeping from 5am-3pm, if allowed free reign of it. I survived by scheduling must-attend classes for the late afternoon and evening. Morning exams were handled by simply staying up extra late. Melatonin 3mg taken at around midnight generally allowed me to get to sleep by 2am, but still allowed free reign I'd sleep until 3pm and waking up before noon was difficult.

In terms of falling asleep, you seem to be more shifted than me. Though I have had many 4-5am nights, and a handful of sleepless nights, my general pattern of falling asleep is around 3am. I have tried staying up all night and then going to bed at 10pm the next night, but for some reason, I'm still up until ~1am. The next night its back to ~3am. But if this has worked for you it might be worth me trying again (on a saturday/sunday).

Though inconvenient, I find it fairly easy to manage at this juncture.

Yeah, same here for the most part. Apart from anatomy, I was able to get sleep in where I needed it... I don't know which "juncture" you are speaking for but my concern is regarding 3rd & 4th year (and beyond) where being up and alert at 7am is a pretty common thing.

 

[starfishprime]

I have tried staying up all night and then going to bed at 10pm the next night, but for some reason, I'm still up until ~1am. The next night its back to ~3am. But if this has worked for you it might be worth me trying again (on a saturday/sunday).

I find that my peak alertness is around 12am, so I absolutely could not go to sleep at that time no matter what. But, if I tried to go to sleep at ~9pm, it was relatively easy - probably akin to an afternoon nap considering that was 8 hours before my normal sleep time. Perhaps you could try going to sleep very early - ~7pm, and see if you can get something like that to work.

 

[coffeebeanjenn]

Hey! I had/have this problem too. I found the absolute best thing for me is waking up even earlier and working out in the morning. Three days a week I was up at 5:00am and running on a treadmill... the first few weeks were brutal but eventually I really adjusted and was on a mostly normal schedule. I fell asleep earlier and was even naturally waking up around 6:30 (when I didn't set an alarm). I used to sit in a cubicle and I would also turn on all of the lights at my desk and try to stand by the windows and look out at the sunlight whenever I would walk by. My doctor told me no caffeine after noon, something I don't always comply with but it seems to help. When it is "bed time" I also make myself get in bed in a dark room and I start counting... eventually I fall asleep.

I have the summer "off" before I start school in July and I stopped adhering to the morning work outs... and now the sleep phase problem is back. I keep saying I'll get back on my AM workout schedule "tomorrow," but it's hard to convince myself to wake up early when I don't really have to be anywhere.

 

[Rendar5]

I have diagnosed delayed sleep phase disorder (i thought it was sleep apnea til I got checked out by a sleep specialist and had studies done).

3mg melatonin qhs works for me. 40 minute onset fortunately (unlike the 2 hour one above). light therapy is supposedly effective for it, but I haven't needed to use it. Although you should be getting regular daylight anyway. No one's natural circadian rhythm is 24 hours, daylight is what actually syncs you to the correct time (basically, imagine you're a clock that runs slow, and every sundown you adjust it to the correct time).

Now, I'm not saying anyone else has it, nor am I saying how they should treat it. It's a very individual thing, and I was fortunate to have a sleep specialist diagnose and treat me.

(BTW, my doc did mention that 18-22yos have a natural circadian rhythm that is set up for a very late sleep time and a late bed rise. Any college kid that doesn't naturally fall asleep til 1-3am prolly does not have anything.)