Lincoln Memorial University???

Veterinary Science Graduate Programs from U. of I.
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WhtsThFrequency said:
I think the disconnect here was taking "for profit" literally. They may not have that exact designated status, but their tuition along with other factors certainly makes it appear so.

Sort of like calling someone a backstabber. They don't actually stab people in the back, but they may well be huge douchenozzles 😉
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That's entirely what I meant when I said that! I didn't mean it in the literal sense.

Sorry to come back to the party late. Been working all day.
Members don't see this ad.
 
"July 2, 2013

​Lincoln Memorial University College of Veterinary and Comparative Medicine, Harrogate, Tennessee granted a Letter of Reasonable Assurance for a period not to exceed three (3) years."

Published today on the AVMA COE page of accredited veterinary schools.
 
Vetdaddy said:
"July 2, 2013

​Lincoln Memorial University College of Veterinary and Comparative Medicine, Harrogate, Tennessee granted a Letter of Reasonable Assurance for a period not to exceed three (3) years."

Published today on the AVMA COE page of accredited veterinary schools.
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You have got to be kidding me...

😡
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Letter of Reasonable Assurance is basically given to any school that signs up/applies to be associated/partnered with the AVMA. It is not giving them any accreditation.



I do have to say that today while I was on the dairy farm, that the farmer who I was with was discussing how there are too many vets and that the job market sucks and is horrible for vets. The same problems are occurring over here in the UK as well (more vet schools are opening/oversaturation of the market). I think it is quite sad when a farmer on a small farm in Scotland can recognize and see the problem but the various veterinary associations keep the blindfolds on their eyes and refuse to acknowledge it.
 
Vetdaddy said:
"July 2, 2013

Lincoln Memorial University College of Veterinary and Comparative Medicine, Harrogate, Tennessee granted a Letter of Reasonable Assurance for a period not to exceed three (3) years."

Published today on the AVMA COE page of accredited veterinary schools.
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Maybe just published, but it happened awhile ago.
 
Anyone notice the giant LMU ad up top with st George's and st Matthews? Ughhhhhhhh.
 
were i to fork over obscene and absurd amounts of money for education by a newer vet school... there is no reason why i wouldn't attend st georges, lol. i would not go to tennessee.. (random thought brought to you by sam adams summer!)
 
Hey now! Tennessee isn't bad. Just LMU is evil!
 
Members don't see this ad :)
dyachei said:
it's only that hot in the summer....
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boiling hot where i am now, but at least i have the beach 🙂

not saying i don't like TN at all, enjoyed it actually when i was there.
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
Your tauntaun will burn before you reach the first marker.

Nah, you're one of those Arizonians. Is that a word? Hm. It is now.
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Drop the second i. 😉

I miss the hot weather (kind of). I mostly miss the predictability of the weather. Here it can be sunny one minute and pouring rain the next when there had not been a single cloud around just a few minutes prior. In winter, you can have sun, rain, snow and hail in one day sometimes in one hour. I wish the weather would just make up its damn mind.
 
LMU APPROVED FOR NEW VETERINARY MEDICAL SCHOOL

July 9, 2013 - Lincoln Memorial University's emerging College of Veterinary Medicine (LMU-CVM) has cleared the first step in the accreditation process with a Letter of Reasonable Assurance from the American Veterinary Medical Association's Council on Education (COE). LMU-CVM is now recruiting students for the inaugural class, which will begin its veterinary medical education in Fall 2014.

"The approval from the COE to open a new school of veterinary medicine in Harrogate, Tenn., will propel this University to even greater heights and establish LMU as a leader in professional studies for the region," said LMU Board of Trustees Chairman Autry O.V. "Pete" DeBusk.

LMU announced in 2011 that it was pursuing a College of Veterinary Medicine. In that year, the North American Veterinary Medical Education Consortium (NAVMEC), which consisted of over 400 stakeholders in veterinary education representing academia, accreditation and testing/licensure, released a report that provided a roadmap for veterinary education. The Five Strategic Goals in this NAVMEC report served as the guiding light for creation of the LMU-CVM's hybrid distributive model for delivery of veterinary education.

The emerging LMU-CVM will be an integral part of the LMU Division of Health Sciences, which includes LMU-DeBusk College of Osteopathic Medicine, the Physician Assistant Program, the Caylor School of Nursing and the School of Allied Health Sciences, which includes a Veterinary Medical Technology Program. As such, in addition to its veterinary faculty and facilities the emerging College will share resources available to the other disciplines within the Division.

"We have assembled an exemplary team of professionals to develop this program." LMU President B. James Dawson said. "The CVM will build upon LMU's well-established allied health science programs in providing much-needed veterinary services to this region. LMU-CVM will be an exciting veterinary medical education program that graduates confident, career-ready veterinarians."

Lincoln Memorial University's College of Veterinary Medicine is located on the LMU main campus in Harrogate, Tenn., with additional academic facilities in nearby Lee County, Va. LMU-CVM is an integral part of the University's Division of Health Sciences and provides real-world, community-based education in a collaborative learning environment. For more information about LMU-CVM, call 1-800-325-0900, ext. 7150 or visit us online at www.lmunet.edu/cvm.
 
The DVM360 facebook account shared an article today about LMU opening up and asked for opinions on whether it would be "allowing people to follow their dreams" or "hurt supply and demand".
 
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cs5910 said:
The AVMA facebook account shared an article today about LMU opening up and asked for opinions on whether it would be "allowing people to follow their dreams" or "hurt supply and demand".
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well that's not leading phrasing at all or anything...
 
kakurubird said:
well that's not leading phrasing at all or anything...
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I am surprised that they opened up the potential for a debate...

Whoops, it was DVM360 that posted the article... I follow too many things on FB!
 
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willagirl said:
Has anyone heard about this school? I saw it mentioned on another thread and I did some research on them. Apparently they are close to getting accreditation?


I am curious.....:laugh:
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Just saw on twitter that they're accredited and getting students for their first cycle! (Fall 2014)
 
OSUPreVet said:
Just saw on twitter that they're accredited and getting students for their first cycle! (Fall 2014)
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That's not the appropriate response. No exclamation points, and it should be followed by a sad or angry face.

:meanie:
 
Jamr0ckin said:
That's not the appropriate response. No exclamation points, and it should be followed by a sad or angry face.

:meanie:
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I was afraid they would find me if I put any emotions next to my comments haha So my emotions will remain a mystery 😉
 
cs5910 said:
I was afraid they would find me if I put any emotions next to my comments haha So my emotions will remain a mystery 😉
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I flat out stated my emotions on the SAVMA page.
 
Ugh. Does anyone else feel like the stupid one in the scary movie that's walking down into the creepy cellar, right into harm's way? I keep telling myself that I'd be one of the "safe" ones after vet school... 😕
 
1.) The tuition for LMU is no different than the majority of the OOS Tuition for other Vet Schools.
2.) Not to mention, there may be a saturation of Vets in the field, but understand there are multiple facets of Vet Med. One for example that is in serious need of Vets is the Governmental field. On a daily basis, there are job postings of vets needed within various branches of the gvt.

Every vet school had to start somewhere, Western being the most recent to open up. The only argument everyone is throwing around on here is the mere fact of "too many vets", and I just addressed that. Otherwise, these comments just seem to be negative. Try looking at the positives for once! (and yes there are positives if you care to actually look)
 
rodeomarie said:
1.) The tuition for LMU is no different than the majority of the OOS Tuition for other Vet Schools.
2.) Not to mention, there may be a saturation of Vets in the field, but understand there are multiple facets of Vet Med. One for example that is in serious need of Vets is the Governmental field. On a daily basis, there are job postings of vets needed within various branches of the gvt.

Every vet school had to start somewhere, Western being the most recent to open up. The only argument everyone is throwing around on here is the mere fact of "too many vets", and I just addressed that. Otherwise, these comments just seem to be negative. Try looking at the positives for once! (and yes there are positives if you care to actually look)
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Pretty sure that everyone is aware of the multiple "facets of vet med"...
And the fact that there are job postings doesn't really mean much. What qualifications are they looking for? How many people apply for each of those jobs?

The simple fact is that there are too many vets and the salary is too low in almost every field.... SA, LA, exotics, Equine, Food, private, educational.

There is no bright side to adding to that oversupply.

Sure every school has to start somewhere, the point here is no schools should start anywhere for the time being.

Until the job situation ameliorates, and the debt: salary situation improves, there is no reason to try "looking for positives". Let's try realism first.
 
I got an interview at LMU and am really excited about it actually! I have heard really good things about LMU from my friends down in Tennessee. Being the first class would have advantages and we would set the bar for future classes. As far as the number of vets schools I don't have a stance on that at this point but I just really want to get in somewhere. I didn't apply to caribbean schools cause I have tiedowns here like my horse. Honestly getting into vet school is tough and will be happy if I can get in anywhere! I think they are really enthusiastic about the school opening and have invested a lot of money into it.
 
StartingoverVet said:
Pretty sure that everyone is aware of the multiple "facets of vet med"...
And the fact that there are job postings doesn't really mean much. What qualifications are they looking for? How many people apply for each of those jobs?

The simple fact is that there are too many vets and the salary is too low in almost every field.... SA, LA, exotics, Equine, Food, private, educational.

There is no bright side to adding to that oversupply.

Sure every school has to start somewhere, the point here is no schools should start anywhere for the time being.

Until the job situation ameliorates, and the debt: salary situation improves, there is no reason to try "looking for positives". Let's try realism first.
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But it's not realism, SOV. You're just being a hater.

😉
 
Escalla said:
But it's not realism, SOV. You're just being a hater.

😉
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haters-gonna-hate-car-trick.gif
 
StartingoverVet said:
Pretty sure that everyone is aware of the multiple "facets of vet med"...
And the fact that there are job postings doesn't really mean much. What qualifications are they looking for? How many people apply for each of those jobs?

The simple fact is that there are too many vets and the salary is too low in almost every field.... SA, LA, exotics, Equine, Food, private, educational.

There is no bright side to adding to that oversupply.

Sure every school has to start somewhere, the point here is no schools should start anywhere for the time being.

Until the job situation ameliorates, and the debt: salary situation improves, there is no reason to try "looking for positives". Let's try realism first.
Click to expand...

Realism? Job placement sucks for everyone, regardless of your profession. Whether you graduate from LMU, UW, or Auburn...your knowledge and skills will get you the job.
Before you start pointing fingers at new schools maybe you should look at the already existing 28 Vet schools, respectively, and ask those that are increasing their class sizes, to stop.
Stop complaining and focus on improving your skill set as a veterinarian, instead of trash talking. If this is that much of a concern to you, bring it up to AVMAs HOD.
 
rodeomarie said:
Realism? Job placement sucks for everyone, regardless of your profession. Whether you graduate from LMU, UW, or Auburn...your knowledge and skills will get you the job.
Before you start pointing fingers at new schools maybe you should look at the already existing 28 Vet schools, respectively, and ask those that are increasing their class sizes, to stop.
Stop complaining and focus on improving your skill set as a veterinarian, instead of trash talking. If this is that much of a concern to you, bring it up to AVMAs HOD.
Click to expand...
Wow. Chill out.

Not trash talking. This is a problem. Attacking the messenger is not going to change that. And no question the existing schools who have increased enrollment have not helped....

Not sure why the vehement response.

And this issue has been brought up and discussed by the avma but the are toothless and not willing to stand up and fight after they were cowed after the western certification fight.

attacking me is not going to change this view that is pretty much accepted now across the industry. Sounds like you better get used to hearing this.
 
StartingoverVet said:
Wow. Chill out.

Not trash talking. This is a problem. Attacking the messenger is not going to change that. And no question the existing schools who have increased enrollment have not helped....

Not sure why the vehement response.

And this issue has been brought up and discussed by the avma but the are toothless and not willing to stand up and fight after they were cowed after the western certification fight.

attacking me is not going to change this view that is pretty much accepted now across the industry. Sounds like you better get used to hearing this.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with everything SOV has said. I am currently stuck trying to find a job in a saturated market, but have been told since I started vet med: "Oh you will always be able to get a job! They always need vets! What great job security!". I would like to think I have great experience, good clinical skills, and have done well in school. But right now, that isn't what is going to get me a job. The market is saturated EVERYWHERE. The UK is having the SAME EXACT argument right now. As class sizes are increasing, they are trying to open two more schools, and no one wants to take on new grads. So if I cannot find a job in the US, even though my degree allows me to practice in europe, the uk, , and all of the commonwealth...I may still have a problem.

I feel like you have a very jaded view right now, but take it from someone going through it-- getting a job right now sucks, and adding schools is not going to help that at all.
 
rodeomarie said:
Realism? Job placement sucks for everyone, regardless of your profession. Whether you graduate from LMU, UW, or Auburn...your knowledge and skills will get you the job.
Before you start pointing fingers at new schools maybe you should look at the already existing 28 Vet schools, respectively, and ask those that are increasing their class sizes, to stop.
Stop complaining and focus on improving your skill set as a veterinarian, instead of trash talking. If this is that much of a concern to you, bring it up to AVMAs HOD.
Click to expand...
I agree and I am not on here to attack anyone. I just want to remind everyone that every single one of the Vet Schools had a first class! We will all be vets and then can specialize. Personally LMU is my top choice and I think it will be a great opportunity to be the first class because will we get a lot of attention and everyone is very enthusiastic! I really hope I do get in!
 
To be clear, no one is saying they don't want you to get into vet school or attacking you. We just don't feel like there is a need for new schools or new spots in existing schools in the current state of the profession.
 
krupajl said:
I agree and I am not on here to attack anyone. I just want to remind everyone that every single one of the Vet Schools had a first class! We will all be vets and then can specialize. Personally LMU is my top choice and I think it will be a great opportunity to be the first class because will we get a lot of attention and everyone is very enthusiastic! I really hope I do get in!
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No we can't all specialize. In fact only 10% can get into residencies and that percentage will decline as enrollment increases...

Unless you meant specialize as in large,small,food etc in which case your terminology was wrong.
 
krupajl said:
I agree and I am not on here to attack anyone. I just want to remind everyone that every single one of the Vet Schools had a first class! We will all be vets and then can specialize. Personally LMU is my top choice and I think it will be a great opportunity to be the first class because will we get a lot of attention and everyone is very enthusiastic! I really hope I do get in!
Click to expand...

Yes. Every vet school had a first class. So what? I've no idea what that seems to suggest to you that we should just keep making more of them. There are more than enough vets for the market right now. Making more vets is just daft.

I hope you get in, too. I just hope it's to an existing school and that every single one of the new start-up schools takes a complete nose-dive into bankruptcy.
 
shortnsweet said:
I agree 100% with everything SOV has said. I am currently stuck trying to find a job in a saturated market, but have been told since I started vet med: "Oh you will always be able to get a job! They always need vets! What great job security!". I would like to think I have great experience, good clinical skills, and have done well in school. But right now, that isn't what is going to get me a job. The market is saturated EVERYWHERE. The UK is having the SAME EXACT argument right now. As class sizes are increasing, they are trying to open two more schools, and no one wants to take on new grads. So if I cannot find a job in the US, even though my degree allows me to practice in europe, the uk, , and all of the commonwealth...I may still have a problem.

I feel like you have a very jaded view right now, but take it from someone going through it-- getting a job right now sucks, and adding schools is not going to help that at all.
Click to expand...
As much as I don't agree with the "everything is fine and dandy" stuff I think this is a bit of a misrepresentation of the veterinary market for the following reasons:
1) It's not just veterinary medicine. The entire economy sucks. Unless you're looking for a job in the oil industry it's not going to be as easy as it was 10 years ago.
2) Where I live there are vacancies. Unfortunately many of the applicants are looking for 9-5, 4 or 5 day a week positions. Parhaps you're not a part of that group, but it's a bit strange to see some of the expectations some of these vets have.
 
anesthtc said:
As much as I don't agree with the "everything is fine and dandy" stuff I think this is a bit of a misrepresentation of the veterinary market for the following reasons:
1) It's not just veterinary medicine. The entire economy sucks. Unless you're looking for a job in the oil industry it's not going to be as easy as it was 10 years ago.
2) Where I live there are vacancies. Unfortunately many of the applicants are looking for 9-5, 4 or 5 day a week positions. Parhaps you're not a part of that group, but it's a bit strange to see some of the expectations some of these vets have.
Click to expand...
Yes, but Vet Med was especially hard hit. also, we haven't recovered in the same way. And we do have a limit to how many vets are supported and newer research has shown we are getting very close to oversaturation based on pure number. New schools are not needed.
 
Out of curiosity, does anyone know the reverse chronological order of vet schools that have "opened"? Aside from LMU and Midwestern, I think Western is the next recent but I don't know what schools follow.
 
anesthtc said:
As much as I don't agree with the "everything is fine and dandy" stuff I think this is a bit of a misrepresentation of the veterinary market for the following reasons:
1) It's not just veterinary medicine. The entire economy sucks. Unless you're looking for a job in the oil industry it's not going to be as easy as it was 10 years ago.
2) Where I live there are vacancies. Unfortunately many of the applicants are looking for 9-5, 4 or 5 day a week positions. Parhaps you're not a part of that group, but it's a bit strange to see some of the expectations some of these vets have.
Click to expand...
Really disagree with you on number two...
Ignoring politics ( personally dont care for either party )
The job market is much better than 3 years ago in general but not for vet med...
Unemployment is at a five year low.
Job creation still is low but has recovered half its fall....a huge improvement
All the job data indices continue to show year on year improvement.
I can provide plenty of data to back this up.
The job market is bad excuse is just not that current...sure it is below norms...but will probably get there in a year or two.(depends on definition of normal)

No way vet med will be normal in a year or two.
 
dyachei said:
Yes, but Vet Med was especially hard hit. also, we haven't recovered in the same way. And we do have a limit to how many vets are supported and newer research has shown we are getting very close to oversaturation based on pure number. New schools are not needed.
Click to expand...
I'm sure if you ask pharmacists they'll tell you the same thing:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687123/
Or nursing:
http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/nurse-market-saturation-644971.html
Or dentistry:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-serious-is-oversaturation-in-dentistry.903992/
Or respiratory therapy:
http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/res...arket-is-extremely-over-saturated-USA/t318617
Or physical therapy:
http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/physical-therapy-assistant/Is-Job-Market-Saturated/t465392
Or physicians:
http://www.hospitalrecruiting.com/b...realities-of-saturated-physician-job-markets/
Or lawyers:
http://uscprelaw.wordpress.com/2013...saturation-of-law-students-on-the-job-market/
Or IT:
http://www.it-training-advice.com/it-career-paths-to-avoid.html
Or maybe it's just a college degree in general:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2010/12/20/is-america-saturated-with-college-grads/

I'd say a lot of people think their industries haven't recovered.
 
anesthtc said:
I'm sure if you ask pharmacists they'll tell you the same thing:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687123/
Or nursing:
http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/nurse-market-saturation-644971.html
Or dentistry:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-serious-is-oversaturation-in-dentistry.903992/
Or respiratory therapy:
http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/res...arket-is-extremely-over-saturated-USA/t318617
Or physical therapy:
http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/physical-therapy-assistant/Is-Job-Market-Saturated/t465392
Or physicians:
http://www.hospitalrecruiting.com/b...realities-of-saturated-physician-job-markets/
Or lawyers:
http://uscprelaw.wordpress.com/2013...saturation-of-law-students-on-the-job-market/
Or IT:
http://www.it-training-advice.com/it-career-paths-to-avoid.html
Or maybe it's just a college degree in general:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2010/12/20/is-america-saturated-with-college-grads/

I'd say a lot of people think their industries haven't recovered.
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with the exception of pharmacists and lawyers, the others really aren't the same at all. But nice try. We really are heading down the same path as the law degree right now.
 
krupajl said:
I agree and I am not on here to attack anyone. I just want to remind everyone that every single one of the Vet Schools had a first class! We will all be vets and then can specialize. Personally LMU is my top choice and I think it will be a great opportunity to be the first class because will we get a lot of attention and everyone is very enthusiastic! I really hope I do get in!
Click to expand...

I totally remember going through the application process and just wanting nothing more than to get in, so I sympathize if you feel like this school is your only shot.

But I would think about how you would feel 4 years down the line. You might be excited to be the first graduating class, but I'm pretty sure none of your possible employers will feel the same... When the competition for jobs is super tight for new grads (and it's only going to get worse as the bigger and bigger classes graduate over the next 4 years), you don't want to be at a huge disadvantage like that.

Yes Western (and all other accredited vet schools) also had a first class, but that was before the economy tanked and everyone still thought veterinarians had good job security. That's no longer the case.
 
StartingoverVet said:
Really disagree with you on number two...
Ignoring politics ( personally dont care for either party )
The job market is much better than 3 years ago in general but not for vet med...
Unemployment is at a five year low.
Job creation still is low but has recovered half its fall....a huge improvement
All the job data indices continue to show year on year improvement.
I can provide plenty of data to back this up.
The job market is bad excuse is just not that current...sure it is below norms...but will probably get there in a year or two.(depends on definition of normal)

No way vet med will be normal in a year or two.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't consider the rise in part-time and contracting jobs to be a huge improvement in the job market; that kind of growth does not generate the same level of disposable income that existed before the recession. Veterinarians aren't doing as badly as they were in 2010 in terms of client volume and cost per client. Hospitals that were efficient in cutting material costs and reallocating staff are quite stable and are even starting to hire back some people.
I never said that veterinary medicine would be normal in a year or two. I don't even expect the overall job market to be normal in 2 years. Obviously there will be a lag between the time we return to pre-recession employment levels and the time that people have a disposable income, so you're right in saying veterinary medicine won't be normal for a while. What I am saying is that the veterinary industry is not some isolated unlucky victim with poor prospects for the future. Things will improve. But until then it is unreasonable to think that job security is or should be a given in this field (or any other for that matter). The people who devote the most effort to learning and improving their technical and personal skills will be the ones that will fill the limited number of vacancies. The word to use is competitive - not over-saturated.
 
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