listing "weird" extracurriculars on AMCAS

[Overeducated]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Ok, so I've been wondering about this for a long time... five years ago, back when I was a mediocre student (at least compared to now) with no intention of going to medical school, I played lots of computer games in an effort to avoid any kind of responsibility and any consideration of what my future may hold. Anyway, I participated in this intercollegiate computer gaming league for my school and our team won their national championship (and $5000). Now, I would assume this would look interesting on my application... but my concern has been whether it looks too goof-offish, non-serious, and non-academic. I know people list when they've participated in school sports. I guess this is similar... but somehow it seems less respectable. I'll probably list it but I just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts???

Anyone else with weird activities/extracurriculars that they're not sure they should list on their application?

 

[HoyaMax]

Vice President of the Corn Dog Appreciation Club...

 

[Doc.Holliday]

cool, i was #2 internationally ranked for pvp in warcraft III for a whole 3 months freshman year. hah, think what i could have done with all that "wasted" time. but im proud of it. ive never been to any real competitions though (too bad, that ranking was actually quite an accomplishment, but i doubt anyone would care), judging by my prowess on the internet id probably to quite well in both strategy and fps games. i reformatted my computer and left all my games at home this semester in hopes i could lessen my addiction, it merely led me to download rips etc, oh well, i havent been nearly as bad though.

anyway, i say put it, i dont think it would hurt, and depending on the interviewer it might bring up an interesting conversation in interviews or something. you could spin it off on how your amazing hand/eye coordination would make you a great surgeon or something.

 

[GWBush]

Leader of the free world.
-W

 

[cpowell21]

I would definately list it.

I read a study about a year ago that showed that Physicians who actively play video games make 40% less mistakes on laproscopic procedures. I'll probably say something about that in my interview.

 

[DianaLynne]

anyway, i say put it, i dont think it would hurt, and depending on the interviewer it might bring up an interesting conversation in interviews or something. you could spin it off on how your amazing hand/eye coordination would make you a great surgeon or something.

I think I actually read somewhere that video game expertise correlates with positive surgical outcomes. Seriously.

 

[Sparky Man]

I think I actually read somewhere that video game expertise correlates with positive surgical outcomes. Seriously.

yeah, i think it was in harvard's magazine! funny, maybe you're gonna rock the surgical world.

 

[Doc.Holliday]

I think I actually read somewhere that video game expertise correlates with positive surgical outcomes. Seriously.

well heck, im well on my way to becoming a great surgeon...

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Wanna be good at surgery? Beth Israel chief of minimally invasive surgery suggests video games!

http://www.southernct.edu/~hochman/Doctorvideogame.htm

 

[nona1]

i came really close to winning a spelling bee but the words 'wierd' and
'definately' really threw me for a loop. 😉

 

[Overeducated]

i came really close to winning a spelling bee but the words 'wierd' and
'definately' really threw me for a loop. 😉

hehe, it's funny that some words used in everyday speech are hardly ever written. You have some simple 1 or 2 syllable word that you've said 10,000 times in your life but if you write it (or type it), it can look completely foreign... spooky feeling... Don't want that to happen while doing MCAT writing sample.

 

[nona1]

yay! you get total points in my book for having a frickin sense of humor. 😀

 

[superdavykinz]

Ok, so I've been wondering about this for a long time... five years ago, back when I was a mediocre student (at least compared to now) with no intention of going to medical school, I played lots of computer games in an effort to avoid any kind of responsibility and any consideration of what my future may hold. Anyway, I participated in this intercollegiate computer gaming league for my school and our team won their national championship (and $5000). Now, I would assume this would look interesting on my application... but my concern has been whether it looks too goof-offish, non-serious, and non-academic. I know people list when they've participated in school sports. I guess this is similar... but somehow it seems less respectable. I'll probably list it but I just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts???

Anyone else with weird activities/extracurriculars that they're not sure they should list on their application?

Seriously I don't see why you should add that because it wasn't a "professional" tournament. Now if it was something like CPL, PGL, ESWC or WCG or something then it I think it would be more appropriate to list it. In those leagues/tournaments the best players in the world compete whereas in your college divisional tournament probably has just average players. Not to take anything away from your accomplishment but if you wanted to list something like that, you'd be better off explaining that you know what it takes to win, have discipline, determination, dedication or whatever if you won something in those leagues. I doubt that they'd give a second look at it though since it's well..still a game to most.

 

[Overeducated]

Seriously I don't see why you should add that because it wasn't a "professional" tournament. Now if it was something like CPL, PGL, ESWC or WCG or something then it I think it would be more appropriate to list it. In those leagues/tournaments the best players in the world compete whereas in your college divisional tournament probably has just average players. Not to take anything away from your accomplishment but if you wanted to list something like that, you'd be better off explaining that you know what it takes to win, have discipline, determination, dedication or whatever if you won something in those leagues. I doubt that they'd give a second look at it though since it's well..still a game to most.

I somewhat doubt that most people on medical school admissions committees are going to know the difference between CPL, PGL and some random combination of letters that I type on my keyboard. 😀 So the issue to me isn't how well recognized the tournament was. My initial hesitancy was in regard to the nature of the event itself (i.e. gaming). I don't expect this to be the lynchpin in my application that clinches a bunch of acceptances but if it gets someone's attention then I guess that's good--at the very least, a non-stressful topic for me to respond to in interviews.

 

[Overeducated]

Actually, one more point... I don't think it's necessary to have proven yourself one of the best in the world at some task in order to mention it on your application. I know people list college sports on their application without having won national tournaments or participated in the Olympics. They list it because they DID it. It's an activity that meant something to them at the time and they learned something or gained something by the experience.

 

[gerido]

IT seems like this could go both way... Either it'll give you and someone cool on the adcom something fun to talk about... or the adcom will think you are the dumb*st SOB with nothing better to do.. and apparently have not done anything enough in your life to list winning a video game tournament as an "accomplishment"... like I said, it could go both way... hmmm I wonder if I should list my championship in the official "who can pee the furthest in the parking lot at 1:00 AM" tournament.

 

[45408]

To be honest, I wouldn't list it. Somehow, I can envision some members of an adcom seeing that and thinking you were being juvenile to list it (not that I don't play video games when I need to take my mind off the grind).

 

[Overeducated]

To be honest, I wouldn't list it. Somehow, I can envision some members of an adcom seeing that and thinking you were being juvenile to list it (not that I don't play video games when I need to take my mind off the grind).

IT seems like this could go both way... Either it'll give you and someone cool on the adcom something fun to talk about... or the adcom will think you are the dumb*st SOB with nothing better to do.. and apparently have not done anything enough in your life to list winning a video game tournament as an "accomplishment"... like I said, it could go both way... hmmm I wonder if I should list my championship in the official "who can pee the furthest in the parking lot at 1:00 AM" tournament.

I definitely see where you guys are coming from--that's exactly why I've been hesitant. I think you would be completely right IF you don't look at it in the context of my overall application... My GPA was more average (3.45) when working on my first degree in film (when that tournament was) so it sort of puts things in context... but I quit computers games completely several years ago and I've managed to maintain a 4.0 GPA for the past 3 years while working on a 2nd bachelors degree in biology so I think if I briefly mention that I was a goof-off as a 1st time undergrad in my personal statement then it kinda puts things in perspective when they look at my activities... otherwise i have no activities from back during my first degree.

On a side note... doesn't anyone else have questionable extracurriculars of their own?

 

[Overeducated]

hmmm I wonder if I should list my championship in the official "who can pee the furthest in the parking lot at 1:00 AM" tournament.

yeah, but did you win $5000 for that accomplishment? 😀

 

[superdavykinz]

I somewhat doubt that most people on medical school admissions committees are going to know the difference between CPL, PGL and some random combination of letters that I type on my keyboard. 😀 So the issue to me isn't how well recognized the tournament was. My initial hesitancy was in regard to the nature of the event itself (i.e. gaming). I don't expect this to be the lynchpin in my application that clinches a bunch of acceptances but if it gets someone's attention then I guess that's good--at the very least, a non-stressful topic for me to respond to in interviews.

Ok but my point was that because it is gaming and its not taken seriously (not hard or whatever) by pretty much anyone outside of the gaming world or South Korea that it would look a little silly. You could however explain that the CPL or whatever is a huge organization and that the best compete there blah blah blah. It's gotten decent coverage on the news and it's only getting better for them.

The difference between sports and gaming is that they know that it takes mental and physical toughness to compete. Gaming is just something someone does when they sit in a chair using their hand/thumbs. It's the whole reason why these organizations are present to promote gaming as a professional sport.

 

[Overeducated]

Ok but my point was that because it is gaming and its not taken seriously (not hard or whatever) by pretty much anyone outside of the gaming world or South Korea that it would look a little silly. You could however explain that the CPL or whatever is a huge organization and that the best compete there blah blah blah. It's gotten decent coverage on the news and it's only getting better for them.

The difference between sports and gaming is that they know that it takes mental and physical toughness to compete. Gaming is just something someone does when they sit in a chair using their hand/thumbs. It's the whole reason why these organizations are present to promote gaming as a professional sport.

ugh, I think this thread is heading in the wrong direction. I don't want to get into a debate over whether NASCAR or bowling or something are real sports. But you're right... even if it WERE a CPL tournament, you'd probably have to go and explain how big an accomplishment it is, which somewhat negates its value. It's like explaining the punch line of a joke--too much effort. I think it might be a good idea to merely list it under an "honors and awards" category so that it's buried but still there. I don't think I should use one of the actual 15 activity slots for this. That would just make it too prominent.

 

[jllander]

You may have made up your mind already on this topic but I figured I'd put in my two cents. From what I've been reading, you have two bachelor degrees. On the second, which is very pertinent to medicine, you have maintained an average GPA of 4.0. You are a great applicant! But you know what else? You kicked butt at a video game tournament a few years back and won $5000 for it. That is also really cool!! That makes you interesting and different. Correct me if I'm wrong but it was you who said this right? Actually, one more point... I don't think it's necessary to have proven yourself one of the best in the world at some task in order to mention it on your application. I know people list college sports on their application without having won national tournaments or participated in the Olympics. They list it because they DID it. It's an activity that meant something to them at the time and they learned something or gained something by the experience. That tournament obviously meant something to you. And if you can find an experience that you gained from it that is relevant to medicine, that's even better!! My thought is, if you have the space on your app., go for it. The people who posted above are right. You have a sense of humor and that could be just another way of showing it. Good luck to you!

 

[superdavykinz]

ugh, I think this thread is heading in the wrong direction. I don't want to get into a debate over whether NASCAR or bowling or something are real sports. But you're right... even if it WERE a CPL tournament, you'd probably have to go and explain how big an accomplishment it is, which somewhat negates its value. It's like explaining the punch line of a joke--too much effort. I think it might be a good idea to merely list it under an "honors and awards" category so that it's buried but still there. I don't think I should use one of the actual 15 activity slots for this. That would just make it too prominent.

Well, if it were to come to his or her attention and the interviewer were to ask you about it I think saying something like well I competed in x tournament which is equivalent to the "NFL" of professional gaming and at that time I was considered the best in the world. Then go on and say that even though it's gaming, it is difficult to achieve success at a high level. That's all I was getting to. It wouldn't seem worth it to mention it unless it was actually some high achieving thing just because it would be gaming, if you mentioned it.

 

[ShyRem]

On the other hand if you went for a surgical specialty the gaming thing might be a plus - I read recently that in the surgeries that use robotics or arthroscopics, the folks who played lots of video games were more comfortable and usually better at using the equipment.

 

[Overeducated]

You may have made up your mind already on this topic but I figured I'd put in my two cents... That tournament obviously meant something to you. And if you can find an experience that you gained from it that is relevant to medicine, that's even better!! My thought is, if you have the space on your app., go for it. The people who posted above are right. You have a sense of humor and that could be just another way of showing it. Good luck to you!

Well, I don't know, maybe I haven't really made up my mind either way but I still have some time to think about it. Regardless, this thread has actually been very helpful to me. I just wanted to get some other people's viewpoints. I really appreciate everyone's suggestions (both for and against listing it).

 

[Haybrant]

this is an interesting thread; im sitting here trying to figure out why there is stigma attached to being really good at a computer game but not so much to sports. I want to say there is an element of physical teamwork in sports and not so in gaming, though that can be argued too, esp. if you are playing these games with a partner. Running isnt really a team sport either
Maybe that there is no element of health involved, but then again you can argue that it enhances your mind.
what do you guys think? Seems like the strongest argument is the teamwork aspect

anyway, my opinion would be dont list it, but if it comes up as one of your hobbies then talk about it during the interview; the kinda answer to what do you do outside of school. Had you maybe set up a LAN party for underprivliged kids or donated games etc.. or started some organization and made positive use of your skills then i would list it

 

[willthatsall]

this is an interesting thread; im sitting here trying to figure out why there is stigma attached to being really good at a computer game but not so much to sports. I want to say there is an element of physical teamwork in sports and not so in gaming, though that can be argued too, esp. if you are playing these games with a partner. Running isnt really a team sport either
Maybe that there is no element of health involved, but then again you can argue that it enhances your mind.
what do you guys think? Seems like the strongest argument is the teamwork aspect

I've actually thought about this because I really like both sports and videogames and I used to play Team Fortress Quake all the time. So that actually did require teamwork (if anyone has played, you know what I mean). I think the big difference is probably the sacrifice. Playing a computer game is still just playing a computer game. There are no real sacrifices; it's always fun. Sports are much more physically demanding and, if played at a high level, require a huge amount of time and sacrifice. For instance, just about every college athlete probably wakes up at 5 AM during some parts of the year for workouts. I guess that could be the case for videogamers, but probably not. Then there is time missed from class because of roadtrips, etc...

 

[Overeducated]

For instance, just about every college athlete probably wakes up at 5 AM during some parts of the year for workouts. I guess that could be the case for videogamers, but probably not. Then there is time missed from class because of roadtrips, etc...

Waking up at 5 AM? No... but what about staying up UNTIL 5 AM playing videogames? Now that's dedication 😀

 

[willthatsall]

Waking up at 5 AM? No... but what about staying up UNTIL 5 AM playing videogames? Now that's dedication 😀

Haha, I actually put that and then deleted it. I tend to do just that in the summer when I start playing videogames and don't have anything else to do. I am a lot better at that than I am at getting up that early.

 

[Haybrant]

I've actually thought about this because I really like both sports and videogames and I used to play Team Fortress Quake all the time. So that actually did require teamwork (if anyone has played, you know what I mean). I think the big difference is probably the sacrifice. Playing a computer game is still just playing a computer game. There are no real sacrifices; it's always fun. Sports are much more physically demanding and, if played at a high level, require a huge amount of time and sacrifice. For instance, just about every college athlete probably wakes up at 5 AM during some parts of the year for workouts. I guess that could be the case for videogamers, but probably not. Then there is time missed from class because of roadtrips, etc...

I tried to stray away from this in my post on purpose b.c to be honest it may be very greuling (mentally, not physically) for all we know to be the 2nd best in the world at a video game which is why it isnt fair to talk about sacrafice. I mean, we always are always praising someone for running in their free time but Im not curious why that is as much as is that correct
I think this gets at larger issues than video games. I have a feeling in certain countries (or for certain peoples i.e aboriginals) physical fitness is not as important as it is in a soceity over-burdened with media exposure; anyway, make what you will of that.

 

[willthatsall]

I tried to stray away from this in my post on purpose b.c to be honest it may be very greuling (mentally, not physically) for all we know to be the 2nd best in the world at a video game which is why it isnt fair to talk about sacrafice. I mean, we always are always praising someone for running in their free time but Im not curious why that is as much as is that correct

Yeah, I agree. Well, I agree that it takes talent and practice to be very good at a videogame, but the distinction I was trying to make is that the time spent practicing videogames is typically fun and doesn't involve any physical pain or sacrifice. That is just from my experience though. I've never thought, "man I have to practice videogames for the next 2 hours, this is gonna suck." But I think that just about every day before I go to the gym to run sprints and lift weights. I guess that is just a personal preference thing, but I imagine it is the way most people feel.

 

[Doc.Holliday]

Waking up at 5 AM? No... but what about staying up UNTIL 5 AM playing videogames? Now that's dedication 😀

5 AM? pfft, i cant count the times ive pulled all nighters playing games.

 

[Haybrant]

Yeah, I agree. Well, I agree that it takes talent and practice to be very good at a videogame, but the distinction I was trying to make is that the time spent practicing videogames is typically fun and doesn't involve any physical pain or sacrifice. That is just from my experience though. I've never thought, "man I have to practice videogames for the next 2 hours, this is gonna suck." But I think that just about every day before I go to the gym to run sprints and lift weights. I guess that is just a personal preference thing, but I imagine it is the way most people feel.

for me personally there are certain video games (i.e strategy games) that i couldnt force myself to play for hours on end to get good at which is why I dont play them. For a person that is second best in the world i doubt they need to force themselves, rather it is fun, and to be the best you have to have an outlook like nobody else. Its the same way for sports; You may be good but I dont think you will become the best bballer (dont mean to put you down!) if you dont love hitting the gym regardless of the pain. So again, the whole fun and pain aspects are too subjective; im trying to peel the subjectivity out of the issue

 

[willthatsall]

for me personally there are certain video games (i.e strategy games) that i couldnt force myself to play for hours on end to get good at which is why I dont play them. For a person that is second best in the world i doubt they need to force themselves, rather it is fun, and to be the best you have to have an outlook like nobody else. Its the same way for sports; You may be good but I dont think you will become the best bballer (dont mean to put you down!) if you dont love hitting the gym regardless of the pain. So again, the whole fun and pain aspects are too subjective; im trying to peel the subjectivity out of the issue

Hmmm, I think there is still a more complicated issue, and this might go for only some sports and not things like running, which I'm not sure about. I love playing basketball anytime. But basketball includes other training things (such as running sprints and lifting weights) that most basketball players hate. It makes you a better basketball player. So if it was just playing a sport, it would always be fun. That's like playing IM sports. But there is an additional training aspect (and travel aspect) that make playing varisity sports more difficult than just playing the game. On the other hand, training for videogames is usually just playing the game (in my experience). So unless there is some other aspect of becoming a good videogame player (thumb exercises?) I think that the difference between the two must be considered. To be good at one, you have to do other things that most people don't enjoy and are largely unrelated to the activity. To be good at the other, you just have to do what you enjoy repeatedly.

 

[superdavykinz]

for me personally there are certain video games (i.e strategy games) that i couldnt force myself to play for hours on end to get good at which is why I dont play them. For a person that is second best in the world i doubt they need to force themselves, rather it is fun, and to be the best you have to have an outlook like nobody else. Its the same way for sports; You may be good but I dont think you will become the best bballer (dont mean to put you down!) if you dont love hitting the gym regardless of the pain. So again, the whole fun and pain aspects are too subjective; im trying to peel the subjectivity out of the issue

As far as sacrificing goes, to play at, near or even try to get to a top level in a computer game can be a good bit of work. Many of the professional gamers play 21 hours a week on average for some fps games. For strategy games, these players play 10 hours a day. Even though it's a computer game and you do start out playing for fun, because of the cheating, random factors and repetition it can seem to be more like a job and less like fun. And in America at least, the only way to get recongized or even try to compete at the top involves online gaming which unfortunately has way too many problems with it that basically makes playing a hassle and not fun at all. Besides having to practice three hours a day or more seems like a sacrifice to me. No socialization except for the people you are playing with.

 

[Haybrant]

As far as sacrificing goes, to play at, near or even try to get to a top level in a computer game can be a good bit of work. Many of the professional gamers play 21 hours a week on average for some fps games. For strategy games, these players play 10 hours a day. Even though it's a computer game and you do start out playing for fun, because of the cheating, random factors and repetition it can seem to be more like a job and less like fun. And in America at least, the only way to get recongized or even try to compete at the top involves online gaming which unfortunately has way too many problems with it that basically makes playing a hassle and not fun at all. Besides having to practice three hours a day or more seems like a sacrifice to me. No socialization except for the people you are playing with.

thatnks for the input guys; this is kinda what im getting at; to be the best at something like sports or comp games you kind of have to be a freak. Willthatsall says most hate that training aspect; well, if you are going to become the best, you prob will not hate it b.c it is important. If you naturally love it you are at a big advantage. There are exceptions but too few and far between (z=4+). And the people that are best at comp games like them so much that they hardly recognize the sacrafices. What i want to know is whether we should afford the sports player more credit than the comp guy. I like the point about being good at working out and not just playing the sport itself and hence why atheletes are given more credit. But for running and the such, people are so ready to praise those that do it in their free time or practice for a marathon but shcoff at the guy who wants to play comp games so much. again, the physical over mental

 

[Overeducated]

Even though it's a computer game and you do start out playing for fun, because of the cheating, random factors and repetition it can seem to be more like a job and less like fun.

That is so damn TRUE. By the end of my playing days I got so little enjoyment out of it compared to when I first started. I was just way too emotionally invested in pointless nonsense (did make a lot of friends though). It was the competition, not the games that were driving me. Fortunately, I learned how to channel that competitive drive into my schoolwork. 🙂

 

[willthatsall]

thatnks for the input guys; this is kinda what im getting at; to be the best at something like sports or comp games you kind of have to be a freak. Willthatsall says most hate that training aspect; well, if you are going to become the best, you prob will not hate it b.c it is important. If you naturally love it you are at a big advantage. There are exceptions but too few and far between (z=4+). And the people that are best at comp games like them so much that they hardly recognize the sacrafices. What i want to know is whether we should afford the sports player more credit than the comp guy. I like the point about being good at working out and not just playing the sport itself and hence why atheletes are given more credit. But for running and the such, people are so ready to praise those that do it in their free time or practice for a marathon but shcoff at the guy who wants to play comp games so much. again, the physical over mental

Well I think it really comes down to supply and demand. There is more demand in our society for sports; people love to watch them. People aren't as interested in watching videogames, because they would rather play them or they just aren't interested. Also, people probably feel like they can play videogames just as well as the next guy, when the difference in athletics is easier to see.

 

[willthatsall]

It definitely comes down to normative reasons.

 

[Haybrant]

Well I think it really comes down to supply and demand. There is more demand in our society for sports; people love to watch them. People aren't as interested in watching videogames, because they would rather play them or they just aren't interested. Also, people probably feel like they can play videogames just as well as the next guy, when the difference in athletics is easier to see.

i think sports are just easier on the viewer; like i cant appreciate what the comp player is doing unless i understand the game, the tricks, the ins and outs, and it's simply too hard to do that with all the games out there. Sports stay the same and the rules are pretty simple (unless you are certain girls; they just never get it!). And the whole physical over mental thing of course.

if the buffest and most physically fit guys were playing video games (and taking steroids!) instead while the baseballers were the puny guys, video games is where the attn would be.

 

[willthatsall]

i think sports are just easier on the viewer; like i cant appreciate what the comp player is doing unless i understand the game, the tricks, the ins and outs, and it's simply too hard to do that with all the games out there. Sports stay the same and the rules are pretty simple (unless you are certain girls; they just never get it!). And the whole physical over mental thing of course.

Oh yeah, there could actually be a really good economic argument behind this whole thing. But it really just comes down to what people value. Even though gamers might work just as hard, the value theory of labor is not in play. Obviously there will never be a market for watching every new videogame because it will be too costly for the viewer to keep track of the rules and such. But even if you take sports games: there are hugely competitive Madden Football tournaments that take a lot of skill, and people love football. So why not have Madden as a spectator event on television? I would say it's because people would rather play themselves and they tend to believe they are just as good as the people playing, so they aren't impressed.

 

[Haybrant]

Oh yeah, there could actually be a really good economic argument behind this whole thing. But it really just comes down to what people value. Even though gamers might work just as hard, the value theory of labor is not in play. Obviously there will never be a market for watching every new videogame because it will be too costly for the viewer to keep track of the rules and such. But even if you take sports games: there are hugely competitive Madden Football tournaments that take a lot of skill, and people love football. So why not have Madden as a spectator event on television? I would say it's because people would rather play themselves and they tend to believe they are just as good as the people playing, so they aren't impressed.

yah madden is a good example; i guess this is what underlies the fear of genetic manipulations/steroids; might as well watch a computer game b.c thats all genetic changes are; someone trying to control the fate of another (kinda like a game player). Cool, good conversation; gotta sleep to get to work on time. night

 

[Medinsane]

What an awesome article

 

[45408]

On a side note... doesn't anyone else have questionable extracurriculars of their own?

Not really. The most "questionable" thing that I would consider listing would be ski racing (on a private team, not intercollegiate), and I don't even plan on listing that, even though I ranked relatively well.