LMU-DCOM MS Biomedical Professions 2019-2020 Cycle

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I know that the application for the linkage calls for taking the mcat by this year but do you guys think it’s possible to take in January? I saw online that the Aacomas application deadline for LMU is March.

That might be something to talk to Ms. Davis about? From what I heard (but not from her, from this forum, so not 100% sure about it) is that once fall grades come out in December, then they look at everything and decide whether u fall in the guaranteed acceptance (>3.4 >499) or just guaranteed interview (>3.0)... Perhaps they take awhile doing that, so maybe you would be able to take the MCAT in Jan, but you would really have to ask!

Did anyone else heard something for sure regarding that??

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I know that the application for the linkage calls for taking the mcat by this year but do you guys think it’s possible to take in January? I saw online that the Aacomas application deadline for LMU is March.

I asked her and she said you need your MCAT score by end of the fall semester so the latest you can take it is in September.
 
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As a former Biomedical Professions program graduate, I can give you the stats of my class of 2018-2019;
Out of ~75 students and ~15 Spring newcomers / students from previous year, only 41% were interviewed and half of them were accepted.
Those who weren't accepted and were put on the waitlist haven't heard any updates with their statuses. I know some fellow classmates who met the MCAT and grad GPA threshold who deserve a seat at DCOM have still yet to be heard. It feels like the MS students are treated as if they are second class applicants because during interview and waitlist phases, almost all traditional applicants were accepted while MS students were immediately waitlisted.

With the new Biomedical Sciences program, I feel that they created this program to make more money off of students. Look at how the initial 30 units to graduate has been increased to 37! That's way more than other 1 year SMP including some of top, big name MD programs. Also it is mandatory to take Histology, Virology, Pharmacology, Immunology, and Vertebrae Physiology. Previously, only select few were allowed to take Histology (students who chose to stay another semester/year after obtaining their MS or students who asked the question when the administration was making the schedule) and Immunology was an elective. The new Virology, Pharmacology, and Vertebrae Physiology courses has never been taught before so I do not know how its going to be but I am assuming its going to be 1. hot mess because of how inception of new class are 2. difficult because of being 1. and classes like Pharmacology will be a new experience for many of the newcomers 3. Physiology that was taught this past spring and the last was an absolute mess with professors not knowing how to lecture and making the exam extremely difficult / not relating to lectured material; over half of the class was failing.

With that being said, the guaranteed interview threshold GPA of 3.4 might sound not too bad BUT with the new courses and heavy load, its gonna be quite difficult. Getting a 3.5 my year with only 30 credits was quite a feat so put that on perspective. Oh also with the new Knoxville campus opening, MGA AND Histology lecture will be streamed for both campuses and around 500 students will be enrolled in it. I think thats unfair because there's only like less than 10 MGA / Histo faculty which lacks interaction capacity with students and paying same amount of money for the recorded lectures. Although I did hear DCOM did hire some new faculty so there maybe more PhDs in the team but the school is known notoriously for poor faculty retention. Albeit Knoxville obviously offered quite an amenity compared to a rural village of Harrogate. Side note, since Histo similar to MGA and Neuroanatomy are DCOM classes, you'll be paying alittle more $$$ compared to traditional grad level courses. So LMU will be generating $$$ as they force new MS students to take Histology and extra 7 units previous masters students did not have to take...

About the Bootcamp, I think you have to pay $1000 for 3 weeks of intense anatomy classes taught by one of the faculty and few med student / grad student TAs. I can say that it is a nice introduction for how testing works at LMU in regards to both written and laboratory practicials but a published study done by LMU says it only helped achieve 3% higher score compared to those students who didn't take the bootcamp for the first MGA exam and the rest of the following exams showed no added benefit. In my opinion, I feel like that $1000 can be used for something else.

Obviously I am really biased and honest but my opinion in fact is shared by many of the MS program graduates.
I might get attacked by LMU loyalists, few that were accepted to DCOM because of super high stats AND/OR CONNECTIONS but oh well.

So, If I were interested in attending this school or the program, I kindly suggest to look elsewhere because I can guarantee you, you'll have a good time at a more known university located in a better location with tremendous amount of opportunities. I'm not doing this just for my own sake but I really don't want future students to go through what me and many of the students had to go through shelling out $$$ for the program that proved to have more cons than pro.

idk where you got those numbers from because i can name at least 20ish that got accepted (and accepted off the waitlist). None of the spring ppl got interviewed because they just started. Most got interviews out of the 75. I remember they had a mock interview sheet and about 55 ppl ended up signing for it. Also, a good number of people didn't choose to do their DCOM interview even when they got the grades because they wanted to apply next cycle, they got into other schools, they missed their interview, etc. I know at least 5 people that couldve interviewed but declined, so I'd say less than 50, maybe barely 40ish ppl actually interviewed. Overall a lot of MS students got accepted and nearly all the rest were put on the waitlist.

The guaranteed acceptance this year seems great because it removes a lot of grey area for why students might not be accepted even though their app looks great. I agree with your warning on how difficult it may be because those 30 credits last year were tough. Cant imagine 37 now especially since there's so much pressure to get As. Newcomers will probably underestimate it but i think most of the masters students can agree with me that the new schedule looks painful. I saw for next spring, students in the MS have to take 7 courses... ouch (especially if you take neuro/embryo in the spring). It was hard enough to study for the Janurary MCAT last year...students this year shouldn't even try with this schedule. On the bright side, if you do really well, it will look great and you would have learned a lot compared to previous classes.

Bootcamp is a little overrated, but some people really liked it. That 3% higher score result from the study is easily worth $1k to some people.

I'd recommend this program because they really do accept a good number of MS students to DCOM. No one really knows what DCOM likes best, but acing the SMP helps a lot lol. Plus they have the guaranteed acceptance and the campus at knoxville is expanding from 125 students to 200 for next class. So more seats for applicants.

I dont think there are many other SMPs out there that will be better than LMU especially if you have a bad GPA/mcat. Those more well known SMPs wont even admit students with low grades talk-less of their med school, so LMU really gives you a chance to make up for all that stuff.
 
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idk where you got those numbers from because i can name at least 20ish that got accepted (and accepted off the waitlist). None of the spring ppl got interviewed because they just started. Most got interviews out of the 75. I remember they had a mock interview sheet and about 55 ppl ended up signing for it. Also, a good number of people didn't choose to do their DCOM interview even when they got the grades because they wanted to apply next cycle, they got into other schools, they missed their interview, etc. I know at least 5 people that couldve interviewed but declined, so I'd say less than 50, maybe barely 40ish ppl actually interviewed. Overall a lot of MS students got accepted and nearly all the rest were put on the waitlist.

The guaranteed acceptance this year seems great because it removes a lot of grey area for why students might not be accepted even though their app looks great. I agree with your warning on how difficult it may be because those 30 credits last year were tough. Cant imagine 37 now especially since there's so much pressure to get As. Newcomers will probably underestimate it but i think most of the masters students can agree with me that the new schedule looks painful. I saw for next spring, students in the MS have to take 7 courses... ouch (especially if you take neuro/embryo in the spring). It was hard enough to study for the Janurary MCAT last year...students this year shouldn't even try with this schedule. On the bright side, if you do really well, it will look great and you would have learned a lot compared to previous classes.

Bootcamp is a little overrated, but some people really liked it. That 3% higher score result from the study is easily worth $1k to some people.

I'd recommend this program because they really do accept a good number of MS students to DCOM. No one really knows what DCOM likes best, but acing the SMP helps a lot lol. Plus they have the guaranteed acceptance and the campus at knoxville is expanding from 125 students to 200 for next class. So more seats for applicants.

I dont think there are many other SMPs out there that will be better than LMU especially if you have a bad GPA/mcat. Those more well known SMPs wont even admit students with low grades talk-less of their med school, so LMU really gives you a chance to make up for all that stuff.

I think he is referring to only the BP class not Including AS. From the BP class only about 18 students got accepted from the waitlist which is not alot compared to the people who actually interviewed who wanted to come here . I think a good amount of people were initially accepted without waitlist from the AS program and even more from waitlist .

LMU is not the worse SMP , but it is certainly not the best. It is better to let future students know what they would probably face to make a decision. This guaranteed acceptance is a plus but my worries are still with how they are going run things. Let’s be honest, many of the issues stem from the actual program itself and it not being run effectively ...
 
I think he is referring to only the BP class not Including AS. From the BP class only about 18 students got accepted from the waitlist which is not alot compared to the people who actually interviewed who wanted to come here . I think a good amount of people were initially accepted without waitlist from the AS program and even more from waitlist .

LMU is not the worse SMP , but it is certainly not the best. It is better to let future students know what they would probably face to make a decision. This guaranteed acceptance is a plus but my worries are still with how they are going run things. Let’s be honest, many of the issues stem from the actual program itself and it not being run effectively ...

Nah BP wasnt that big. BP had a little over 50 students and AS had exactly 24. 4 of the AS was dental/PA/dropped out... so class was really just 20. If only 18 got accepted from BP, Im not surprised. A lot of BP didn't interview and Im sure BP have some PA/dental as well. Almost all the 20 in AS got an interview. I would say everyone but idk if there might be one person that didn't. I know for certain 12 of them got accepted earlier in the summer. Rest was still waitlisted. More probably got accepted by now.

Lot of people claim AS is favored over BP but it's not as big of a deal as it seems. No one seems to consider this but I mainly think AS ppl get in at a higher rate because a lot of them have better stats before the program. Also, a lot of them have done well in the program. A couple got into MD schools where I didnt hear of anyone doing BP. The advisors issue is the only real complaint imo.

As for classes, there were real issues with molecular genetics and physiology. Lot of people unfortunately failed physiology and a lot were BP students, so it hurt GPAs. Idk if DCOM admissions considered the difficulty of the class when looking at GPAs. Biochem course was also easier in the spring compared to the fall, but it's not like it was impossible to get an A in the fall. Also, getting a B in molecular genetics was doable but I admit the course was poorly run. It might be better this upcoming year because they got a lot of feedback and they listen to complaints. The rest of the courses were fine in terms of the effort needed to get As. I feel like you'll see this in whatever school you go to. There will always be bad/tough classes.

I'd like to know other concerns you have about how they might run things. I can't really think of anything else. I get it's important to inform new students but whistlebrewer usually uses a negative tone so thats why I responded lol
 
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I'm AS and have Adv. Vertebrate Physiology along with MGA and Histology in the fall. Is this the same physiology you said a lot of people failed?
 
Nah BP wasnt that big. BP had a little over 50 students and AS had exactly 24. 4 of the AS was dental/PA/dropped out... so class was really just 20. If only 18 got accepted from BP, Im not surprised. A lot of BP didn't interview and Im sure BP have some PA/dental as well. Almost all the 20 in AS got an interview. I would say everyone but idk if there might be one person that didn't. I know for certain 12 of them got accepted earlier in the summer. Rest was still waitlisted. More probably got accepted by now.

Lot of people claim AS is favored over BP but it's not as big of a deal as it seems. No one seems to consider this but I mainly think AS ppl get in at a higher rate because a lot of them have better stats before the program. Also, a lot of them have done well in the program. A couple got into MD schools where I didnt hear of anyone doing BP. The advisors issue is the only real complaint imo.

As for classes, there were real issues with molecular genetics and physiology. Lot of people unfortunately failed physiology and a lot were BP students, so it hurt GPAs. Idk if DCOM admissions considered the difficulty of the class went looking at GPAs. Biochem course was also easier in the spring compared to the fall, but it's not like it was impossible to get an A in the fall. Also, getting a B in molecular genetics was doable but I admit the course was poorly run. It might be better this upcoming year because they got a lot of feedback and they listen to complaints. The rest of the courses were fine in terms of the effort needed to get As. I feel like you'll see this in whatever school you go to. There will always be bad/tough classes.

I'd like to know other concerns you have about how they might run things. I can't really think of anything else. I get it's important to inform new students but whistlebrewer usually uses a negative tone so thats why I responded lol
Would you mind PM’ing me? I would love to hear your honest review of the program and if it’s doable.
 
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do you also have bacteriology & virology in addition to those classes? I wanted to know if the MS BP and MS AS students all have the same schedule for the fall/spring.

Nope, don't see it on my schedule!
 
I'm AS and have Adv. Vertebrate Physiology along with MGA and Histology in the fall. Is this the same physiology you said a lot of people failed?

Last year it was called systems physiology. It might be the same but different name. I'm not sure.
 
Have any of you filled out fafsa? If so, how much are you getting in aid to lessen the blow? Also classes start on the 19 of August right ?
 
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Have any of you filled out fafsa? If so, how much are you getting in aid to lessen the blow? Also classes start on the 19 of August right ?

Yes, I did. Usually, FAFSA gives out about $20K per year max of unsubsidized loans.. rest are private.

According to my knowledge, graduate classes (3) are starting August 19th, while classes with med. school (2) start August 5th according to both calendars, but anyone else please correct me if I am wrong.
 
You can also apply for the graduate plus loan that is through the federal government. This can be used to cover the remaining tuition balance.

Yes orientation will begin on July 30th and classes start the 5th.
 
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I'm AS and have Adv. Vertebrate Physiology along with MGA and Histology in the fall. Is this the same physiology you said a lot of people failed?

Actually I saw earlier that systems phys (the physiology I was talking about last year) is an elective now. So it's not the same
 
Gave up my spot in this program, and hoping that anyone who might be still patiently waiting for a spot to take it and get settled before the start of the program! Best of luck to all of you guys!! :)
 
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Gave up my spot in this program, and hoping that anyone who might be still patiently waiting for a spot to take it and get settled before the start of the program! Best of luck to all of you guys!! :)
Why did you decide to leave?
 
Does anyone know if the genetics undergraduate requirement is a hard req? Has anyone been admitted to the program without it?
 
Does anyone know if the genetics undergraduate requirement is a hard req? Has anyone been admitted to the program without it?
It's a hard requirement unfortunately... Most people come in with that requirement satisfied but few like myself had to take Genetics with undergrads. The professor for it is pretty arrogant not gonna lie but she is fair and treats her class at high school - community college level. Now the main issue is that sometimes the course interferes with graduate classes, to which administration shrugs their shoulder without any understanding telling you to figure it out...
 
How is this program going this year??

I would second many of the concerns that were addressed earlier in this thread by Whistlebrewer. The administration is still just as unorganized and the fact that we are taking even more units makes it stressful. Feel free to PM if you'd like to chat about it
 
I think you can still be accepted to the program without having taken genetics, but you have to take it before you start or take the undergraduate genetics course offered at LMU during the fall.

The program is going through big administrative changes this year and it's pretty disorganized, but from what I've heard they're slated to have a record number of students admitted to the DO program from the program on the guaranteed acceptance program. A few have been accepted for the fall already. I haven't heard too many complaints about the course load, but I think that's because most students I know want to go to DCOM and they know they won't have to repeat the courses, so it'll make their first year easier.
 
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It's a hard requirement unfortunately... Most people come in with that requirement satisfied but few like myself had to take Genetics with undergrads. The professor for it is pretty arrogant not gonna lie but she is fair and treats her class at high school - community college level. Now the main issue is that sometimes the course interferes with graduate classes, to which administration shrugs their shoulder without any understanding telling you to figure it out...

Wait, so you did get admitted without genetics? It's not a requirement to get into the program, then? What does high school - community college level mean? How many credits/which classes did you take fall and spring?
 
Wait, so you did get admitted without genetics? It's not a requirement to get into the program, then? What does high school - community college level mean? How many credits/which classes did you take fall and spring?

You either take it before you get accepted or you will take it at LMU during your first semester of the masters program but you take it with the undergraduates.

What this means for the masters program is you will take summer courses or push your graduation till next fall.

If you haven’t taken it- would be better to take it before entering the program.


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I think you can still be accepted to the program without having taken genetics, but you have to take it before you start or take the undergraduate genetics course offered at LMU during the fall.

The program is going through big administrative changes this year and it's pretty disorganized, but from what I've heard they're slated to have a record number of students admitted to the DO program from the program on the guaranteed acceptance program. A few have been accepted for the fall already. I haven't heard too many complaints about the course load, but I think that's because most students I know want to go to DCOM and they know they won't have to repeat the courses, so it'll make their first year easier.

Only spring starters from last year have been accepted thus far. Anyone who started this fall will not even be interviewed till January. I believe there were 7 and 5 have been admitted last we all heard.

Mostly we hear complaints about the AS vs BP course load difference in the fall. Since BP is required to take an extra class while RDA is a joke for AS.


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Only spring starters from last year have been accepted thus far. Anyone who started this fall will not even be interviewed till January. I believe there were 7 and 5 have been admitted last we all heard.

Mostly we hear complaints about the AS vs BP course load difference in the fall. Since BP is required to take an extra class while RDA is a joke for AS.


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Hmm. I could have sworn that someone who said they were accepted to Knoxville was a fall starter, but maybe they weren't accepted or maybe they started in the spring. My bad.
 
What's the average GPA/MCAT admitted to the AS and Biomed Sci programs? Can I apply in February-March without having taken the MCAT till May and still hear a decision before the MCAT is taken?
 
What @medstudent8 has been saying is on point. You can get accepted to the MS program with course deficiencies given that you either take it before the start of the Fall semester or during Fall semester at LMU with undergrads.

As with "what I've heard they're slated to have a record number of students admitted to the DO program from the program on the guaranteed acceptance program", I feel that statement is difficult to trust given how LMU administration has been spewing false information and when prompted with technical questions, they tend not to reply. Did you know that DCOM Dean and the MGA head professor is in the talks of not offering MGA for MS students the following cycle of 2020-2021? Reason being record amount of students dropping out, failing, or barely passing with a C; ofcourse there are those 1% gunner students with As but still the majority is struggling to include the medical students.

The "accepted" students are mostly Spring 2019 students who got high GPAs because *cough cough* took easy classes to include RDA, Ethics, Colloquial, Biochem, Immuno, and Cell Biology. DCOM looked at their spring grades for evaluation while discounting the Fall MGA and Histo grades that in progress. Even though they claim MGA, Histo, and Neuro as the primary source of evaluation, they evaluated these Spring people without any of the aforementioned classes smh.

@Deafinmedicine, people I know that got accepted to the program includes those with 2.75 GPA, MCAT of less than 490s, and some with no clinical experience or have never shadowed a DO before. They in essence, accept anyone to the MS program even someone who've done shady things like committing a crime. AS program is stricter with average GPA and MCAT near minimum DO acceptance level.
 
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WhistleBrewer where's the source on the possibility of removing MGA from the MS curriculum? Also, why would LMU spew false information regarding admissions if there's in place criteria for gaining either an interview or a conditional acceptance?
 
What @medstudent8 has been saying is on point. You can get accepted to the MS program with course deficiencies given that you either take it before the start of the Fall semester or during Fall semester at LMU with undergrads.

As with "what I've heard they're slated to have a record number of students admitted to the DO program from the program on the guaranteed acceptance program", I feel that statement is difficult to trust given how LMU administration has been spewing false information and when prompted with technical questions, they tend not to reply. Did you know that DCOM Dean and the MGA head professor is in the talks of not offering MGA for MS students the following cycle of 2020-2021? Reason being record amount of students dropping out, failing, or barely passing with a C; ofcourse there are those 1% gunner students with As but still the majority is struggling to include the medical students.

The "accepted" students are mostly Spring 2019 students who got high GPAs because *cough cough* took easy classes to include RDA, Ethics, Colloquial, Biochem, Immuno, and Cell Biology. DCOM looked at their spring grades for evaluation while discounting the Fall MGA and Histo grades that in progress. Even though they claim MGA, Histo, and Neuro as the primary source of evaluation, they evaluated these Spring people without any of the aforementioned classes smh.

@Deafinmedicine, people I know that got accepted to the program includes those with 2.75 GPA, MCAT of less than 490s, and some with no clinical experience or have never shadowed a DO before. They in essence, accept anyone to the MS program even someone who've done shady things like committing a crime. AS program is stricter with average GPA and MCAT near minimum DO acceptance level.

Like I said, the program is disorganized as hell, probably because they're trying to keep up with the status quo of linking their program with the medical school via guaranteed admission. Admissions has been pretty forthright with the increased rigor for students who entered this semester.

Your philosophy on admissions is clearly not on par with the school's. LMU is an opportunity university, willing to give students with lower standardized test scores and GPAs a shot. If they apply to the program and succeed, that boosts their chances of admission to medical school, but the programs provides no guarantees and doesn't pretend to.

I'd also love to hear something solid about removing MGA from the curriculum. Sounds like some bull to me.
 
Like I said, the program is disorganized as hell, probably because they're trying to keep up with the status quo of linking their program with the medical school via guaranteed admission. Admissions has been pretty forthright with the increased rigor for students who entered this semester.

Your philosophy on admissions is clearly not on par with the school's. LMU is an opportunity university, willing to give students with lower standardized test scores and GPAs a shot. If they apply to the program and succeed, that boosts their chances of admission to medical school, but the programs provides no guarantees and doesn't pretend to.

I'd also love to hear something solid about removing MGA from the curriculum. Sounds like some bull to me.

In what ways is it disorganized and how has this affected you? And how are you holding up with the program (doing well)?
 
WhistleBrewer where's the source on the possibility of removing MGA from the MS curriculum? Also, why would LMU spew false information regarding admissions if there's in place criteria for gaining either an interview or a conditional acceptance?


They changed the curriculum last minute for this year's class too including the guaranteed acceptance. An email was sent out of nowhere announcing the new change as well as taking the program from 30 units to 37 units.

Although not officially posted anywhere the directors of this program, as well as advisors, have confirmed the next cohort starting Fall 2020 will no longer be taking MGA with the med students. This was stated at the beginning of the year if you asked any of these individuals too. They will be taking a prosection based anatomy.

I'd echo whistlebrewer a lot of us are struggling in anatomy many people are borderline between B/C and the few that will receive an A must keep getting A's on Block 4 and the final to maintain the A.


For the latter part of your question if you ever ask the advisors/directors how many students were accepted from last year's program they never tell you how many started, how many stayed till the end of fall, how many continued to spring, and how many graduated. They always give a roundabout answer saying- last year was our worst year. So not false information but they aren't openly posting their statistics either
 
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They changed the curriculum last minute for this year's class too including the guaranteed acceptance. An email was sent out of nowhere announcing the new change as well as taking the program from 30 units to 37 units.

Although not officially posted anywhere the directors of this program, as well as advisors, have confirmed the next cohort starting Fall 2020 will no longer be taking MGA with the med students. This was stated at the beginning of the year if you asked any of these individuals too. They will be taking a prosection based anatomy.

I'd echo whistlebrewer a lot of us are struggling in anatomy many people are borderline between B/C and the few that will receive an A must keep getting A's on Block 4 and the final to maintain the A.


For the latter part of your question if you ever ask the advisors/directors how many students were accepted from last year's program they never tell you how many started, how many stayed till the end of fall, how many continued to spring, and how many graduated. They always give a roundabout answer saying- last year was our worst year. So not false information but they aren't openly posting their statistics either

Hold up, what about the guaranteed acceptance was changed last minute? I didn't understand that part, and what is prosection based anatomy? How're the rest of your classes going and is there a light at the end of the tunnel for future smp students with the potential of matriculating? Oh and can you clarify whaat is the struggle with MGA; is it just students haven't taken an anatomy course or is it a tricky type of class..?
 
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Hold up, what about the guaranteed acceptance was changed last minute? I didn't understand that part, and what is prosection based anatomy? How're the rest of your classes going and is there a light at the end of the tunnel for future smp students with the potential of matriculating? Oh and can you clarify whaat is the struggle with MGA; is it just students haven't taken an anatomy course or is it a tricky type of class..?


The two guaranteed acceptances tiers were announced last minute last year. An email was sent to students who were accepted and did not put their deposit down yet announcing the changes, but for people who had put their deposit down, we didn't get this email. Although exciting it didn't outline the curriculum change from 30 units to 37 which is a huge deal for more units per semester as well as cost.

I'm not sure what prosection based anatomy will exactly entail but im assuming it will be similar to the PA students where you learn in lecture but instead of dissecting the body during anatomy lab it is already dissected and you use it to view organs/blood supply and study. You yourself actually do not do any dissection.
 
@Xaos Perhaps. I maybe heavily biased due to my bad experiences with LMU. Having come from public state university, it was appalling how disorganized and a mess the program was. I do agree in how the Philosophy of LMU is opportunistic but in the end it is very financially motivated rather. Here's a fun fact; the majority of tuition collected from MS and DO program goes to fund the undergrad athletes tuition, expanding LMU for future dental, pharmacy, PT, and OT programs, and finally straight into Mr. DeBusk's pocket. Was truly surprised when I heard this because only tiny bit goes back to MS and DO students! You may ask where I got the source? By speaking with former athletic director for one of LMU's sports team and few undergrad students that works within administration.

@Deafinmedicine Most students come with undergraduate background in anatomy and physiology. The reason why many students struggle with MGA because 1. The curriculum do not follow First Aid / Board prep materials 2. Thought by many different professors with majority having no clinical background. They often focus their specialty in their field on their exam (1 Anthropology PhD Professor loves lower extremity so he just teaches that). 3. Prof rarely add Question Bank Type questions (Greys, BRS, etc) on the exam 4. Deliberately test the class on non-high yield material 5. Sheer volume of information, which is expected for medical schools 6. Professors cover different lectures every year so study guides made by students from prior year does not work effectively 7. Lab practicals have word banks but often have 2nd and 3rd order questions making it complex and tricky. 8. The final cumulative exam is intense because all the materials from the 4 blocks will be tested. 9. Tutors are supplied to you and are helpful with clarifying certain concepts, but the exams they took and the ones you will be taking most definitely will be different (Currently for block 4, tutors are saying Head&Neck was fairly easy but we had different Prof last year. This year 2 of them that are teaching did not cover this block). 10. Honestly there are indeed significant improvements needed for MGA but at the end of the day, it does accomplish the goal of teaching you the material that will aid in medicine. It's just the delivery and certain factors mentioned above make it difficult for people to pass with good grade obviously.

As @medstudent8 said, prosection based anatomy course is what PA students take. Lectures are tad bit condensed and there are no dissection. You'll just look at prosected cadavers (neatly dissected for study) and be tested on it; you'll never touch the cadaver, no dissection by you, just looking / listening to TAs. Honestly what's the point of going here if you don't get to be part of the dissection group because one of hallmark for this MS program was to dissect and take anatomy course WITH medical students.

The sources for the Prosection based anatomy comes from few of mine contacts that are at Harrogate right now. They overheard the directors talking about it through rumors and when they asked, the directors told them the truth.

I know I cannot dissuade interested applicants from going here because of how sweet the "guaranteed admission" sounds and confident thoughts of "I'm not like others because I know myself and I can succeed!" but proceed with caution... Don't get me wrong this program is do-able (Unsure about current class because 37 units is CRAZY for an MS program at a college nobody has ever heard of) and people do graduate, but some leave with higher GPA, same GPA as undergrad, or lower which puts you at disadvantage when applying.
 
I know I cannot dissuade interested applicants from going here because of how sweet the "guaranteed admission" sounds and confident thoughts of "I'm not like others because I know myself and I can succeed!" but proceed with caution... Don't get me wrong this program is do-able (Unsure about current class because 37 units is CRAZY for an MS program at a college nobody has ever heard of) and people do graduate, but some leave with higher GPA, same GPA as undergrad, or lower which puts you at disadvantage when applying.

I mean, a MS program shouldn't give out 4.0s, and I feel like so many of the pre-med MS programs do. It's expensive, but so are most of them, and if you can handle the academics, it's worth it for guaranteed admission. It would be for me, anyway. If you can't handle the program, can you expect to handle medical school?
 
That's why there are differences between normal MS (Biology, Kinesiology) and SMP (Special MS for those who want to go to professional school). From what I hear from many of my colleagues, the normal MS program tend to have organized admin, 2 year program, support from the faculty, wellness, and career enriching curriculum whereas SMPs tend to be super brutal (cut-throat), 1 year, pumping students in and out (graduation / failures), monetarily motivated, quick burnout rate, mediocre support since you're stay will be pretty short, and Professors treat their class as "part-time" so not much assistance. Now some folks maybe quick to defend or want to prove me wrong which I understand but this is IMHFO. It's generalized but this is my experience from the SMP.

@ForGoodLuck What kind of program are you in if I may ask? Just curious
 
@Xaos Perhaps. I maybe heavily biased due to my bad experiences with LMU. Having come from public state university, it was appalling how disorganized and a mess the program was. I do agree in how the Philosophy of LMU is opportunistic but in the end it is very financially motivated rather. Here's a fun fact; the majority of tuition collected from MS and DO program goes to fund the undergrad athletes tuition, expanding LMU for future dental, pharmacy, PT, and OT programs, and finally straight into Mr. DeBusk's pocket. Was truly surprised when I heard this because only tiny bit goes back to MS and DO students! You may ask where I got the source? By speaking with former athletic director for one of LMU's sports team and few undergrad students that works within administration.

@Deafinmedicine Most students come with undergraduate background in anatomy and physiology. The reason why many students struggle with MGA because 1. The curriculum do not follow First Aid / Board prep materials 2. Thought by many different professors with majority having no clinical background. They often focus their specialty in their field on their exam (1 Anthropology PhD Professor loves lower extremity so he just teaches that). 3. Prof rarely add Question Bank Type questions (Greys, BRS, etc) on the exam 4. Deliberately test the class on non-high yield material 5. Sheer volume of information, which is expected for medical schools 6. Professors cover different lectures every year so study guides made by students from prior year does not work effectively 7. Lab practicals have word banks but often have 2nd and 3rd order questions making it complex and tricky. 8. The final cumulative exam is intense because all the materials from the 4 blocks will be tested. 9. Tutors are supplied to you and are helpful with clarifying certain concepts, but the exams they took and the ones you will be taking most definitely will be different (Currently for block 4, tutors are saying Head&Neck was fairly easy but we had different Prof last year. This year 2 of them that are teaching did not cover this block). 10. Honestly there are indeed significant improvements needed for MGA but at the end of the day, it does accomplish the goal of teaching you the material that will aid in medicine. It's just the delivery and certain factors mentioned above make it difficult for people to pass with good grade obviously.

As @medstudent8 said, prosection based anatomy course is what PA students take. Lectures are tad bit condensed and there are no dissection. You'll just look at prosected cadavers (neatly dissected for study) and be tested on it; you'll never touch the cadaver, no dissection by you, just looking / listening to TAs. Honestly what's the point of going here if you don't get to be part of the dissection group because one of hallmark for this MS program was to dissect and take anatomy course WITH medical students.

The sources for the Prosection based anatomy comes from few of mine contacts that are at Harrogate right now. They overheard the directors talking about it through rumors and when they asked, the directors told them the truth.

I know I cannot dissuade interested applicants from going here because of how sweet the "guaranteed admission" sounds and confident thoughts of "I'm not like others because I know myself and I can succeed!" but proceed with caution... Don't get me wrong this program is do-able (Unsure about current class because 37 units is CRAZY for an MS program at a college nobody has ever heard of) and people do graduate, but some leave with higher GPA, same GPA as undergrad, or lower which puts you at disadvantage when applying.
Do you think the anatomy class next year will be easier to get an A in?
 
That's why there are differences between normal MS (Biology, Kinesiology) and SMP (Special MS for those who want to go to professional school). From what I hear from many of my colleagues, the normal MS program tend to have organized admin, 2 year program, support from the faculty, wellness, and career enriching curriculum whereas SMPs tend to be super brutal (cut-throat), 1 year, pumping students in and out (graduation / failures), monetarily motivated, quick burnout rate, mediocre support since you're stay will be pretty short, and Professors treat their class as "part-time" so not much assistance. Now some folks maybe quick to defend or want to prove me wrong which I understand but this is IMHFO. It's generalized but this is my experience from the SMP.

@ForGoodLuck What kind of program are you in if I may ask? Just curious

I'm not in a program. I'm applying to this one. I was involved in admin for my alma master's graduate programs (pre medical and traditional science), and in looking for pre med masters programs it seems like most of them blatantly advertise grade inflation to make their graduates look better and increase their outcomes. I have a great academic background and I know I can handle medical school level courses so I'm not worried about a rigorous or difficult program. I don't really care that the program is monetarily motivated or that their money goes to support the undergraduate athletics or other graduate programs. That's kind of the name of higher ed, right? I get you had a bad experience or didn't do well, but for someone like me with a low MCAT score, this program is fantastic. Sure, it adds to the cost of your education and tacks a year of school on, but if it opens a door to medical school that was closed before, it's worth it.
 
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@Xaos Perhaps. I maybe heavily biased due to my bad experiences with LMU. Having come from public state university, it was appalling how disorganized and a mess the program was. I do agree in how the Philosophy of LMU is opportunistic but in the end it is very financially motivated rather. Here's a fun fact; the majority of tuition collected from MS and DO program goes to fund the undergrad athletes tuition, expanding LMU for future dental, pharmacy, PT, and OT programs, and finally straight into Mr. DeBusk's pocket. Was truly surprised when I heard this because only tiny bit goes back to MS and DO students! You may ask where I got the source? By speaking with former athletic director for one of LMU's sports team and few undergrad students that works within administration.

I guarantee that your public state university does the same thing re: tuition money going to athletics and other programs, if not more. DCOM is a relatively new program; LMU would not have supported the creation of the medical school if they weren't getting something out of it. The MS program, even moreso. How much money did the university have to invest in the creation of facilities, hiring faculty and staff, programming, training, and planning curricula before they could admit their first student to DCOM? Of course they're motivated financially; the world revolves around money. You can't do any of that without money. All of that money came from other undergraduate and graduate programs' tuition, just like the money to start up the PT and OT programs are coming from DCOM students' tuitions now. DCOM came from LMU. DCOM is part of LMU. The cogs all work together.


Although not officially posted anywhere the directors of this program, as well as advisors, have confirmed the next cohort starting Fall 2020 will no longer be taking MGA with the med students. This was stated at the beginning of the year if you asked any of these individuals too. They will be taking a prosection based anatomy.

As @medstudent8 said, prosection based anatomy course is what PA students take. Lectures are tad bit condensed and there are no dissection. You'll just look at prosected cadavers (neatly dissected for study) and be tested on it; you'll never touch the cadaver, no dissection by you, just looking / listening to TAs. Honestly what's the point of going here if you don't get to be part of the dissection group because one of hallmark for this MS program was to dissect and take anatomy course WITH medical students.

The sources for the Prosection based anatomy comes from few of mine contacts that are at Harrogate right now. They overheard the directors talking about it through rumors and when they asked, the directors told them the truth.

Sorry for my skepticism. After asking around, I understand current DCOM students that graduated from the Master's program report struggling during preclinicals because unless they're TAs first year, they struggle with recalling the information from MGA for block exams during first year, and even if they do well enough first year, their foundation is rustier for second year. It sounds like the switch to their own anatomy course is meant to give them a strong foundation for anatomy, without replacing MGA for students that stay at DCOM. It might have something to do with the increase in DCOM matriculants expected from the MS guaranteed admission/interview pipeline.

It seems like this move might benefit students trying to go to DCOM or take advantage of the linkage program, but maybe at a slight detriment to students using the program to boost their applications to other schools. The current students I've talked to don't seem to think that switching to prosection-based anatomy without the med students would affect their applications too much; the schools they interview at don't know the details of DCOM's program anyway, so they won't care that they're switching to a different class style, and most people are just impressed that they take any courses with the first-years. I'm assuming that they will still be taking Histo with DCOM students, has anyone heard differently?
 
@ForGoodLuck I appreciate your confidence but one must take a medical school level class in order to say that. I've had many colleagues boasting of their excellent academic credentials and I later find out that they flunked out or have to repeat it. I am saying this because I for one endured through this rigor so I have the "right" I guess to say that I can handle medical school level courses. But good luck to you though as someone with low MCAT like myself was able to prove that, which led to an acceptance at a medical school.

@Dochopeful13 My DCOM PA Colleagues tell me that it's in between nursing / undergrad anatomy and MGA. So in essence, much easier than MGA given that you have pretty good knowldge of undergrad anatomy if you've taken that. Many of them received As in that class.

@Xaos My current sources are looking into about Med Histo for next cycle haha.
 
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@ForGoodLuck I appreciate your confidence but one must take a medical school level class in order to say that. I've had many colleagues boasting of their excellent academic credentials and I later find out that they flunked out or have to repeat it. I am saying this because I for one endured through this rigor so I have the "right" I guess to say that I can handle medical school level courses. But good luck to you though as someone with low MCAT like myself was able to prove that, which led to an acceptance at a medical school.

@Dochopeful13 My DCOM PA Colleagues tell me that it's in between nursing / undergrad anatomy and MGA. So in essence, much easier than MGA given that you have pretty good knowldge of undergrad anatomy if you've taken that. Many of them received As in that class.

@Xaos My current sources are looking into about Med Histo for next cycle haha.
Well that’s good news. Do you think getting a 3.4 will be more doable next year then?
 
@ForGoodLuck I appreciate your confidence but one must take a medical school level class in order to say that. I've had many colleagues boasting of their excellent academic credentials and I later find out that they flunked out or have to repeat it. I am saying this because I for one endured through this rigor so I have the "right" I guess to say that I can handle medical school level courses. But good luck to you though as someone with low MCAT like myself was able to prove that, which led to an acceptance at a medical school.

I'm not saying that good undergrad performance means that you can handle medical school, but I have shadowed students, audited medical coursework before, and gone through academic experiences (which I won't go into detail with) that are more rigorous than the overwhelming majority of students, so I know I can handle the coursework.

I don't get why you're so adamant about trying to drive people away from this program, especially after reading some of the assumptions and exaggerations you've posted before. You had a bad experience and feel obligated to warn people, okay, but you seem kind of extreme about it for someone who got into medical school and is still trolling the pre-med forums trying to scare people away from their best shot at going to medical school.
 
@Dochopeful13 Honestly it's do-able because I was able to reach around that GPA. But that was before change in MS curriculum so I'm gonna guess it'll be difficult given that you're taking way harder classes; Immuno, Pharm, Cell Bio, Histo, etc and 37 units vs 30 (my program).

@ForGoodLuck Understand. I'm sorry if I come off as hostile or "trolling" but that's not my intention. I was heavily involved with pre-health organizations back in undergrad and did mentoring so I'm trying to be on the lookout / give advices. And having gone to this program which I regret, I just want to warn those considering this program. I'll let you be the judge of the so called "assumptions" and "exaggerations" because trust me, it's all real. Some of the anecdotes I've mentioned and horror stories has happened to my classmates. It really became personal at this point because most are in debt from loans, some got a bad record on their transcript, and few unfortunately had to re-take courses prolonging their stay there. Obviously we agree to disagree on these issues and I respect that. But I am just here doing my part in revealing the real LMU. It maybe a best shot for some but it can also ruin your chance of getting into med school.

Road to medical school in itself is super rough because if not we won't be in this situation right now. I think it’s important to recognize that LMU and DCOM are so overly monetarily focused that they do not care about improving the program. I don't know if I've mentioned this earlier but there are so many unnecessary stresses you'll encounter there; lack of communication from administration, miscommunication from faculty that can dampen your GPA, and having professors be unprepared to lecture effectively can seriously take a toll on you no matter how smart you are. They just want you to believe it will be a nice time here in good ol' Harrogate. Like you, we all have that drive and think we are capable, and we really are... But maybe not for surviving LMU, maybe elsewhere.
 
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That's not true, but okay.

Alright. Just my honest opinion so I'll let your little heart decide :)

Good luck with finishing up the semester strong though, and I sincerely hope you get into DCOM.
 
Alright. Just my honest opinion so I'll let your little heart decide :)

Good luck with finishing up the semester strong though, and I sincerely hope you get into DCOM.

That's not an opinion, bud, that's an accusation. But I guess opinions don't need to be be based on truth or facts, so, fair.
 
@ForGoodLuck I appreciate your confidence but one must take a medical school level class in order to say that. I've had many colleagues boasting of their excellent academic credentials and I later find out that they flunked out or have to repeat it. I am saying this because I for one endured through this rigor so I have the "right" I guess to say that I can handle medical school level courses. But good luck to you though as someone with low MCAT like myself was able to prove that, which led to an acceptance at a medical school.

@Dochopeful13 My DCOM PA Colleagues tell me that it's in between nursing / undergrad anatomy and MGA. So in essence, much easier than MGA given that you have pretty good knowldge of undergrad anatomy if you've taken that. Many of them received As in that class.

@Xaos My current sources are looking into about Med Histo for next cycle haha.

@Xaos they will still be taking Histology with medical students. This opens up room to take one more elective per one of the advisors. For example, taking RDA and Imaging or Ethics/RDA. No idea about neuroanatomy though
 
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@Dochopeful13 Honestly it's do-able because I was able to reach around that GPA. But that was before change in MS curriculum so I'm gonna guess it'll be difficult given that you're taking way harder classes; Immuno, Pharm, Cell Bio, Histo, etc and 37 units vs 30 (my program).

@ForGoodLuck Understand. I'm sorry if I come off as hostile or "trolling" but that's not my intention. I was heavily involved with pre-health organizations back in undergrad and did mentoring so I'm trying to be on the lookout / give advices. And having gone to this program which I regret, I just want to warn those considering this program. I'll let you be the judge of the so called "assumptions" and "exaggerations" because trust me, it's all real. Some of the anecdotes I've mentioned and horror stories has happened to my classmates. It really became personal at this point because most are in debt from loans, some got a bad record on their transcript, and few unfortunately had to re-take courses prolonging their stay there. Obviously we agree to disagree on these issues and I respect that. But I am just here doing my part in revealing the real LMU. It maybe a best shot for some but it can also ruin your chance of getting into med school.

Road to medical school in itself is super rough because if not we won't be in this situation right now. I think it’s important to recognize that LMU and DCOM are so overly monetarily focused that they do not care about improving the program. I don't know if I've mentioned this earlier but there are so many unnecessary stresses you'll encounter there; lack of communication from administration, miscommunication from faculty that can dampen your GPA, and having professors be unprepared to lecture effectively can seriously take a toll on you no matter how smart you are. They just want you to believe it will be a nice time here in good ol' Harrogate. Like you, we all have that drive and think we are capable, and we really are... But maybe not for surviving LMU, maybe elsewhere.

WhistleBrewer never says anything positive about LMU so its hard to trust her opinion. As a previous student, I can assure you most people arent this negative lol. Some things are true; many didnt do well in MGA last year, the new 37 credits will be harder than 30 creds, the school makes a lot of money off the students and is probably getting funneled to future dental, PT schools.

Other things are just bad opinions with no support. For example, LMU obviously cares about their MS program. Why do you think they changed it? It's more rigorous now, but that means that if students do well, they will definitely look good for DCOM. Professors have an open door policy and it's pretty easy to get a hold of them.

How are professors unprepared to lecture? Which classes?

Many people fail MGA at other schools. This is not specific to LMU. The anatomy faculty are very good here.

What miscommunication was "dampening your GPA"? Again this doesn't make sense and there was no serious miscommunication I saw that hurt GPAs.

Administration's "lack of communication" doesn't hurt your experience here. Obviously they can't tell you all the secrets of admission and LMU, but they help when it comes to improving your academic experience.

You mention a lot of vague things to scare people away and nothing good. Youre not showing anyone the "real" LMU. Learn to be a good reviewer.

In the end, focused students won't let small things hurt their academic experience here. No SMP is perfect. At least this one gives many low GPA students a chance. If your like WhistleBrewer and expecting an SMP to be easy going like a regular MS program, you will need to change your mindset. If you do well, you'll be fine for DCOM. Last year, people that were accepted to DCOM from the MS program had high GPAs on avg (like 3.7+ from what Ive seen). The new 37 credits will be tough and hopefully people that finish this spring can shed some light on it.
 
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