Loma Linda + Chapel?!

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
wow, this is probably one of the most messed up rants I have ever read on SDN.
It's only messed up until you realize that people frequently act in exactly the manner I've described them to in regards to personal responsibility and accountability.

Basically......this: http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/aint_nobody_telling_me_what_my/

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/37495

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33332

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33652
.....is a common attitude in real life (hence why it's so damn funny). Still think that not allowing them to breed is a bad idea?

Members don't see this ad.
 
#2 in my class, matched Derm - had 3 kids during medical school. Go figure.

My son was born during 2nd year just in time to be coliky for finals and step 1 study (I fantasize about how high my score would have been . . .) Somehow, someway, magic happened and I was able to graduate. Go figure.

No one's saying that it can't happen. Most will say that few can handle it though. We hear enough about how med school is tough and having to children effectively is... hard.

Props to you though. I give credit where it's due and you certainly deserve it. 👍
 
looking at your icon, and the various posts you have made to this thread, I can say with certainty that you are messed up. I think your views are quite extreme, intolerant, and unforgiving of others, but hey... to each their own. You are entitled to hold whatever opinions you choose to.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
looking at your icon, and the various posts you have made to this thread, I can say with certainty that you are messed up.

And where did you do your training in clinical psychology at? Residency in psychiatry? Oh, that's right, you're a snot nosed premed with minimal clinical experience. That means your "expert" opinion of my mental state isn't fit to wipe my ass with. I'm not "messed up" according to anyone who knows me or has talked to me in real life.

The avatar is a joke that most people on here recognize as such, so stop being uptight. As for my attitudes, sorry for not being a bleeding heart ***** like some people think everyone should be. I don't feel sorry for people who have no desire to do anything beyond sponge off of the hard work and support of others while they sit on their asses all day.

What is wrong with punishing people when they screw up and preventing them from ruining the lives of others? It's not like I am advocating the mass execution of these drains on society, just the removal of their ability to breed. Pardon me for having a spine...I never realized that was a bad thing. 🙄
 
No one's saying that it can't happen. Most will say that few can handle it though. We hear enough about how med school is tough and having to children effectively is... hard.

Props to you though. I give credit where it's due and you certainly deserve it. 👍

I don't recommend it. But I'm a better person for it.

Kids happen 😀
 
I don't recommend it. But I'm a better person for it.

Kids happen 😀
Yup.....kids happen... 😀 😀
e2f38332.jpg

.....and I agree, they do make you a better person. Your whole outlook changes 🙂
 
And where did you do your training in clinical psychology at? Residency in psychiatry? Oh, that's right, you're a snot nosed premed with minimal clinical experience. That means your "expert" opinion of my mental state isn't fit to wipe my ass with. I'm not "messed up" according to anyone who knows me or has talked to me in real life.

The avatar is a joke that most people on here recognize as such, so stop being uptight. As for my attitudes, sorry for not being a bleeding heart ***** like some people think everyone should be. I don't feel sorry for people who have no desire to do anything beyond sponge off of the hard work and support of others while they sit on their asses all day.

What is wrong with punishing people when they screw up and preventing them from ruining the lives of others? It's not like I am advocating the mass execution of these drains on society, just the removal of their ability to breed. Pardon me for having a spine...I never realized that was a bad thing. 🙄

I wasn't commenting on your psychological health at all. I was just commenting on your harsh and extremist opinions. There are certainly tons of people who take advantage of the system, and leech off the money of hard workers. I am not denying you on that. However, how can you judge these people when you have no idea what their life circumstances are like or how they were raised. I'm quite certain that you were not raised in economically disadvantage or underserved areas. It's easy to make comments such as your own coming from the comforts of a well-off upbringing (assuming). I'm not saying I understand these people, but I don't claim to nor do I pass judgment on their existence or life choices. What separates you from them is merely a result of chance.

BTW, I know your icon is a joke. But some things shouldn't be joked about.
 
Yup.....kids happen... 😀 😀
e2f38332.jpg

.....and I agree, they do make you a better person. Your whole outlook changes 🙂

Yours? 🙂

Awesome. My kid is seriously the best thing that ever happened to me.

I had you at around and 8 on a 10 point scale, you've moved up to 9.2/10 (people don't get much higher unless the signifcantly donate money to me or look good in a bikini [does that make me shallow? {don't answer that!}])
 
However, how can you judge these people when you have no idea what their life circumstances are like or how they were raised.

Unless you grew up poor, you should just shut up right now. I did (there were several years my father was unable to work due to injuries and we made well below the already low average income for our county) and I pulled myself up by own bootstraps and therefore I have a right to judge those who refuse to do the same.

I'm quite certain that you were not raised in economically disadvantage or underserved areas.
Then you would be quite certainly wrong. From the census data for the county I grew up in:
The per capita income for the county was $16,986. About 9.30% of families and 11.50% of the population were below the poverty line, including 18.30% of those under age 18 and 8.90% of those age 65 or over.

We also have 2 doctors for the entire county so I guess that also makes us "underserved".

It's easy to make comments such as your own coming from the comforts of a well-off upbringing (assuming).
You know what they say about assuming things....it's makes an ass out of you, not me. 🙄

What separates you from them is merely a result of chance.
No, what separates me from them is a merely the result of choice. It's not a matter of chance that I chose to work my ass off to get where I am at. Anyone who thinks that we don't have a choice in what we do with our lives is simply making excuses for their own failings or the shortcomings of those around them.

But some things shouldn't be joked about.
Once again, you miss the point and apparently the first slide in my avatar....I'm not joking about suicide, I'm making fun of the people on here who think their life is over if they don't get into medical school. BTW, I've lost an uncle and a cousin to suicide, so if anyone should be offended then I should be at the front of the list. However, I happen to have thick skin. You should try it some time.
 
Yours? 🙂

Awesome. My kid is seriously the best thing that ever happened to me.

I had you at around and 8 on a 10 point scale, you've moved up to 9.2/10 (people don't get much higher unless the signifcantly donate money to me or look good in a bikini [does that make me shallow? {don't answer that!}])
Yes, she's mine (she turns two this month).......and trust me you don't want to see me in anything but long pants, not only are my legs exceedingly pale (they can light up a room) but they're hairy too..... :laugh:
 
Two is such an awesome age. Mine's 2.5
Lyddie's favorite word at the moment: "Mine!"

She's a little blonde version of the seagulls from Finding Nemo:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHFPdoKJw_c[/YOUTUBE]
 
Unless you grew up poor, you should just shut up right now. I did (there were several years my father was unable to work due to injuries and we made well below the already low average income for our county) and I pulled myself up by own bootstraps and therefore I have a right to judge those who refuse to do the same.

pwned once

You know what they say about assuming things....it's makes an ass out of you, not me. 🙄

pwned twice

No, what separates me for them is a merely the result of choice. It's not a matter of chance that I chose to work my ass off to get where I am at. Anyone who thinks that we don't have a choice in what we do with our lives is simply making excuses for their own failings or the shortcomings of those around them.


Once again, you miss the point and apparently the first slide in my avatar....I'm not joking about suicide, I'm making fun of the people on here who think their life is over if they don't get into medical school. BTW, I've lost an uncle and a cousin to suicide, so if anyone should be offended then I should be at the front of the list. However, I happen to have thick skin. You should try it some time.

and for good measure and third dose of pwnage

http://www.sigurros.justgotowned.com/
 
Members don't see this ad :)
No. Just those professing to be Christian (went to school with more than one atheist though - go figure). LLU is able to maintain this selection bias specifically because Chapel is required as well as one religion class per quarter (again nondenominational - more ethics than theology)

ABSOLUTELY NOT. I know of Muslims and Jews who have been accepted to LLU. I think that any religious affiliation is only looked more positively on rather than no religious affiliation.
 
ABSOLUTELY NOT. I know of Muslims and Jews who have been accepted to LLU. I think that any religious affiliation is only looked more positively on rather than no religious affiliation.

Into the School of Medicine? I'm not saying you're wrong but it would definitely be the exception not the rule
 
Unless you grew up poor, you should just shut up right now. I did (there were several years my father was unable to work due to injuries and we made well below the already low average income for our county) and I pulled myself up by own bootstraps and therefore I have a right to judge those who refuse to do the same.


Then you would be quite certainly wrong. From the census data for the county I grew up in:


We also have 2 doctors for the entire county so I guess that also makes us "underserved".


You know what they say about assuming things....it's makes an ass out of you, not me. 🙄


No, what separates me from them is a merely the result of choice. It's not a matter of chance that I chose to work my ass off to get where I am at. Anyone who thinks that we don't have a choice in what we do with our lives is simply making excuses for their own failings or the shortcomings of those around them.


Once again, you miss the point and apparently the first slide in my avatar....I'm not joking about suicide, I'm making fun of the people on here who think their life is over if they don't get into medical school. BTW, I've lost an uncle and a cousin to suicide, so if anyone should be offended then I should be at the front of the list. However, I happen to have thick skin. You should try it some time.

actually I did grow up poor (and I still am). You obviously made the right decisions in life to get where you are. Bravo to you, really. Others may not be quite as determined. Regardless, if you were as poor as shown by your statistics, it seems likely that you received aid from such assistance programs (unless you chose not too, which my family did). Do you think that all individuals who make use of financial assistance programs (shanayay's as you call them, which is painfully obvious as a indirect way of saying african american people) go off spending it on illicit drugs? Are the programs not worth it for the people who use them as they were meant to be used?
 
Regardless, if you were as poor as shown by your statistics, it seems likely that you received aid from such assistance programs (unless you chose not too, which my family did)

Actually we did not. Granted, I don't mention doing this very often because it's not really anyone's business but I started working at the dairy farm across the road to help support my family. There's this thing called being self-reliant and it was instilled in me from a very young age and it was only reinforced through working for probably the smartest person I've ever encountered- that being a high school dropout dairy farmer who knew more about how to deal with people and solve problems than any other human being I've ever come across.




Are the programs not worth it for the people who use them as they were meant to be used?

They are worth it and they serve a valuable purpose- this I do not deny. My problem is that people are not punished for abusing the system like they should be. Like I said, make it a pain in the ass and unpleasant to be on so there is no incentive to be a lazy sponge.

Personally I'm all for mandatory work programs for anyone receiving aid of any sort unless they are in school. Get them out patching potholes, roofing buildings, mowing, etc. See how long they stay on government assistance. I'd love to enroll my fat **** of a cousin in this so she can learn the value of a hard day's work, since an ass beating isn't a legal way of getting through to her.

Do you think that all individuals who make use of financial assistance programs (shanayay's as you call them, which is painfully obvious as a indirect way of saying african american people) go off spending it on illicit drugs?
I said "Shanaynay"- singular, not plural. I picked a name and went with it for the sake of argument. It was not meant as a jab at blacks (I hate being PC because it forces you to be untruthful....the same reason my friend Tyshon is famous for saying to a black female sergeant in our unit who griped at him for calling himself black rather than 'African American': "Ma'am, I'm from Baltimore. I've never been to Africa and I don't care to go. Compared to this sheet of paper *points to me* I'm black. OK?) and you damn well know it. If I had picked the name Maria,Yakov, Mary Jo Shirley Jean, or any other name you would have accused me of being biased against that group simply because you have no other leg to stand on in this argument. When in doubt, play the race card......worked for OJ, why shouldn't it work on SDN eh?

Regardless of the color of their skin, what they call God, or where they hail from originally, if they are not willing to get their butts in line that is what I have an issue with. They may waste the aid on drugs, booze, junk food or titty magazines, but it is still that- wasted. The point of any sort of aid is to buy people a little time to get themselves into work, not to raise a family on.
 
I was wondering that too.....I attend Episcopal services (Catholicism minus all the guilt)

I call it Catholic Light...(I also attend Episcopal services). I hate to see that I actually have something in common with you Drop Kick Murphy.
 
"The School of Medicine is owned and operated by the Seventh-day Adventist Church; therefore, preference for admission is given to members of the Church. However, it is a firm policy of the admissions committee to admit each year a number of non-church-related applicants who have demonstrated a commitment to Christian principles and are best suited for meeting the educational goals of the School. No candidate is accepted on the basis of religious affiliation alone."

From their admissions page. Does this mean anyone can open up a medical school and admit only members of their own religion?

It seems interesting but from the above paragraph, it seems they might have some sort of Affirmative Action thing going for non-SDAers, that are still committed to "Christian principles", whatever that means. I don't think you even have to be Christian to be committed to "Christian principles."

Reminds me of Gandhi who said: "I love your Christ, but not your Christians. Why can't you be more like Christ" or something like that. LOL.
 
One thing leads to another. Now I can't help wondering if Loma Linda exclusively provides health care to Christian patients. Is this the only school in the USA that doesn't have much interest in diversity in the student body?
 
Reminds me of Gandhi who said: "I love your Christ, but not your Christians. Why can't you be more like Christ" or something like that. LOL.
Or as I have jokingly said, "Dear Lord, please protect me from the delusions of your misguided and overzealous followers. Amen."

My favorite Gandhi quote was when he was asked what he thought of Western civilization and his response was "I think it would be a great idea." :laugh:
 
SDNers need to learn to come out of their shells. Quit beating around the bush and say what you mean...
















...Man, I love this place.
 
"No candidate is accepted on the basis of religious affiliation alone . . . From their admissions page. Does this mean anyone can open up a medical school and admit only members of their own religion? . . .

Right - just being "Christian" is not enough to find a spot at LLU. You cannot show up with a weakass 2.5 GPA, 24 MCAT, no experience, research, or EC's and expect a spot.

If you are a private religious school, then yes, you may admit at your own discretion. And this is one reason Chapel is required. There was a court case involving Baylor Med School (Baptist affiliation) some years ago over the acceptance of a nonreligious applicant - when it came out in court that even though Baylor had a religious affiliation, it did not act like it, and therefore had no riht to discriminate. LLU took notice.
 
Are their any non-christions at LLU med?

Yeah, jdh said there were some atheists in his class.

One of the fellows at my practice is adventist and went to Loma Linda for undergrad, med, and residency and said there were plenty of non-adventists.

Personally, I'm still eager to apply. I keep hearing that it is a top-notch learning environment and I have no problems with the religious component.

I want to go to LLU for a post-bacc program if I don't get in anywhere this year.
 
a little from column A, a little from column B. I don't think I'd ever heard so much christian rock music in one setting than during my 3 hour tour of Hope...

Damn Dutch
 
Being a dad doesn't prevent anyone from getting smart or getting smarter.
😕 Come again pikey? Oh, and try putting a little more though into your comebacks next time.
 
Loma Linda and its contracts and its chapels can lick my hairy balls. Branch Davidians = SDA's. David Koresh SOM FTL.

Hahaha, awesome.

DKM, your posts make you seem like a man lacking an ounce of compassion or understanding for anyone in a situation other than your own. The sick part is I find myself sitting here chuckling and agreeing with 99% of what you are saying, though 👍 :laugh:
 
DKM, your posts make you seem like a man lacking an ounce of compassion or understanding for anyone in a situation other than your own.

There's a difference between not having compassion and not having any tolerance for bull****. I'm willing to help almost anyone who needs it, but they should expect to have ways to prevent the problem again pointed out to them. How 'brutal' I am in doing this depends on how the person is acting or how many times we had to deal with this type of crap from this person before......a lot of times if it was acceptable in more settings the phrase "Stop being a douche" would save a lot of time and be the most direct option.

The sick part is I find myself sitting here chuckling and agreeing with 99% of what you are saying, though
Glad to hear it. I swear if we ever have a SDN convention, I'll sell "I agree with DKM on this matter" t-shirts. :meanie:
 
For the record, I didn't mean to bash Loma Linda. Just thought that JDH would be able to answer the question well. But he seemed smart to ignore my question. Too bad, some bull couldn't seem to stand his own $h!t.......
 
Seeing as how I just went through hours of orientation at LLU, I should be able to clear up some things along with dr. jdh.
I thought it was the most random question out of all my secondaries so far. And does that mean we have to go to chapel during med school? Kinda strange?
Chapel is certainly required, and because they know that people may have a problem with this, they tell you on the secondary, so you aren't surprised when you matriculate here. I've been in Adventist institutions from Kindergarten to the present, and there has always been mandatory chapel. If you are a Christian, its actually a little oasis during the middle of the week; if you aren't then it'll probably be annoying.

Wow. As a Christian who was quite enthusiastic about applying to Loma Linda (thought it was my only chance on the west coast) this news is quite upsetting.

If I can't crack open a cold beer at the end of a long day I don't see any reason to continue living.
I hope you were kidding about the christian thing. Disregard what is "traditionally" done by other christian denominations and read the bible for yourself: Proverbs 20:1, Proverbs 23:19-21, Proverbs 23: 29-35. I"m not judging anyone, because everyone is at a different position in their journey, but LLU's policy can only help you my friend.

I'm sure you can go nuts if you're married. They're not stupid, they want some little adventists running around.
Lol, exactly. As is taught in most churches; sex outside of marriage is wrong, and therefore not allowed. But once again, LLU isn't God, so only God can tell if you are keeping or breaking the rule. There aren't LLU spies hiding in your closets.

Lol, this is fun to read. I am an Adventist and our beliefs can seem outrageous sometimes--I won't argue 🙂.

In response to some of these statements:

I'm fairly certain that attending Chapel/Church is not required--would they seriously put forth the effort to monitor that? It wasn't required back in the 80's when my father attended there, so it certainly wouldn't be now.

Alcohol consumption is against our religious belief, just like extramarital sex (I'll spare you the reasoning). It seems like the opinion here is "OMG if i drink one drop of alcohol, they will kick me out of school!" Unless you show up drunk or severely hung-over, I doubt anyone will notice or care.

Oh, and sex is just fine if you are married.
Chapel is 150% required in terms of attendance. You either make it up now, and when they give you free time to study for Step 1.

Thanks.
Atheist, that's what I intended to ask. Does Loma Linda accept any applicant who has not wholeheartedly committed to any particular religion yet? And how? The applicant in my case is not necessarily an atheist because he always respects everyone's god. Also, there is always some religion that doesn't prohibit participation with activity in another religion including the Chapel.

Now I'm beginning to wonder how SDA recruits new members. I guess they don't go door to door knocking the way some Christian does.
Actually, that's how the SDA church started; door to door ministry and many members still do it, although it is dying down.

Its certainly possible to be admitted being a muslim or a non-christian, but the probably is pretty slim overall for you getting into LLU, especially if its clear that you aren't christian. But folks do get in without being christian.

ABSOLUTELY NOT. I know of Muslims and Jews who have been accepted to LLU. I think that any religious affiliation is only looked more positively on rather than no religious affiliation.
Yeah it happens but if you wanted to have the maximum chance of getting in, I would go the christian route.

"The School of Medicine is owned and operated by the Seventh-day Adventist Church; therefore, preference for admission is given to members of the Church. However, it is a firm policy of the admissions committee to admit each year a number of non-church-related applicants who have demonstrated a commitment to Christian principles and are best suited for meeting the educational goals of the School. No candidate is accepted on the basis of religious affiliation alone."

From their admissions page. Does this mean anyone can open up a medical school and admit only members of their own religion?

It seems interesting but from the above paragraph, it seems they might have some sort of Affirmative Action thing going for non-SDAers, that are still committed to "Christian principles", whatever that means. I don't think you even have to be Christian to be committed to "Christian principles."

Reminds me of Gandhi who said: "I love your Christ, but not your Christians. Why can't you be more like Christ" or something like that. LOL.
Suprisingly, there are more none Adventists in the class than ADventists because most Adventists either go to their state medical schools, or don't come to LLU do to money. or they just may take LLU for granted. Whatever the reason, there is probably more of an affirmative action thing for adventists than non-adventists.

One thing leads to another. Now I can't help wondering if Loma Linda exclusively provides health care to Christian patients. Is this the only school in the USA that doesn't have much interest in diversity in the student body?
The class is actually pretty diverse. And if you knew the make-up of the Loma Linda/San Bernadino area, it would be clear that they don't only treat Christian patients.
------------------------
Honestly folks. LLU don't hide its true colors at all. Its a great school with clear policies and if you can stand them then it is truly a great environment to be in. I'm not sad at all that I chose to come here, and in terms of clinical training, they beat out alot of other schools. Trust me when I say that the pros greatly outweigh any cons that you can find.
 
Honestly folks. LLU don't hide its true colors at all. Its a great school with clear policies and if you can stand them then it is truly a great environment to be in. I'm not sad at all that I chose to come here, and in terms of clinical training, they beat out alot of other schools. Trust me when I say that the pros greatly outweigh any cons that you can find.

Jay, thanks for your insight. I really want to go to LLU, but I'm agnostic. Are agnostics treated like atheists by LLU? In other words, are my chances terribly slim compared to a Christian applicant?

Would it help my odds if I put down a friend as a source of my info on LLU's secondary if she went to undergrad, med, and residency there? Or would my religious views be too incompatible?
 
I wish I was an adcomm so I could knowledgably answer your question, but from the basis of being Adventist, I would say that being agnostic in their minds is close to atheism, but not as bad probably. Either way, its an uphill battle if you aren't Christian, and with 124 other medical schools to apply to which don't care about your christianity, I would say not to waste your money. But like I said before, atheists/agnostics/muslims/jews etc., do get accepted, but just in small percentages; and I would say that its the exception rather than the norm.
 
Do any other private, religious medical schools have such requirements? Namely Georgetown, Loyola, SLU, NYMC, any others I may have missed?
 
Do any other private, religious medical schools have such requirements? Namely Georgetown, Loyola, SLU, NYMC, any others I may have missed?
I know NYMC does not (one of my friends attends there and she's never mentioned it). I think LLU is unique in this aspect.
 
What about "papists" a.k.a. Catholics? Seems a lot of Christians consider 'em lower than atheists :laugh:

[Note: I was born/raised/forced to be Catholic, as well as attended Catholic schools from age 5 --> 18]
 
g-town and slu come from the jesuit tradition but to the best of my knowledge do not have any bias towards any particular religious group nor do they require attending church services
 
g-town and slu come from the jesuit tradition but to the best of my knowledge do not have any bias towards any particular religious group nor do they require attending church services
Good to know. Thanks. As a non-Christian, I don't really know much about the many sects and how their beliefs differ... which is why I asked.
 
I am a Cali resident and was originally planning to apply to Loma Linda. Then i tried volunteering at their ER and they have NO CAFFIENE at the hospital. I think it will be pretty much impossible for me to get through medical school without caffeine readily available at ALL times... and beer will be pretty important on weekends. So i applied to all the CA schools EXCEPT Loma Linda. Good luck to all of you guys writing those essays. I hope you all get in because it takes a LOT of dilegence to apply there! 👍
 
I am a Cali resident and was originally planning to apply to Loma Linda. Then i tried volunteering at their ER and they have NO CAFFIENE at the hospital. I think it will be pretty much impossible for me to get through medical school without caffeine readily available at ALL times... and beer will be pretty important on weekends. So i applied to all the CA schools EXCEPT Loma Linda. Good luck to all of you guys writing those essays. I hope you all get in because it takes a LOT of dilegence to apply there! 👍
Two words: No-Doze.


Well, that or a script for Ritalin...... :laugh:
 
Yup, church service is required. You also sign a contract that you will not have sex or drink alcohol while you're in medical school. If anybody catches you doing either, you can get kicked out of school.
(I'm saying this because I know people that go to their pharm & med school)

For pharm, you have to dress business casual EVERY DAY to class.

You don't have to do that for med.

During the church service, a lot of people just end up doing their homework (My friend snapped a few pictures using a cell phone camera)

I don't know why so many people from Cali apply to Loma Linda😕

Guess I'm going to have to become an undercover sex addict/alcoholic. No more leaving bottles and used condoms strewn about my apartment.
 
For the record, I didn't mean to bash Loma Linda. Just thought that JDH would be able to answer the question well. But he seemed smart to ignore my question. Too bad, some bull couldn't seem to stand his own $h!t.......

What are you talking about?
 
I am a Cali resident and was originally planning to apply to Loma Linda. Then i tried volunteering at their ER and they have NO CAFFIENE at the hospital. I think it will be pretty much impossible for me to get through medical school without caffeine readily available at ALL times... and beer will be pretty important on weekends. So i applied to all the CA schools EXCEPT Loma Linda. Good luck to all of you guys writing those essays. I hope you all get in because it takes a LOT of dilegence to apply there! 👍

There's caffiene in the ED.
 
Top