LOR Protocol

[NPR]

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What's the protocol for obtaining a LOR?

I witnessed a fellow classmate asking for one today. Quite comical. Poor fella nearly wet himself.

He walked up to an attending he knew for barely a week, mumbled something about a letter of rec, thrust out his CV and cover letter, and was nearly bowled over in shock when the attending said, "Of course."

Is it that simple? I was under the impression we needed to know an attending for a longer period of time (seriously...a week?! We've been on this rotation together for a week!), needed to explain the ERAS cover letter and the whole process of waiving our viewing rights, and at least go over key points on the CV that we'd like mentioned in the LOR.

Is there no need to do all this since attendings are well-versed in what students need for their LOR?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

What's the protocol for obtaining a LOR?

I witnessed a fellow classmate asking for one today. Quite comical. Poor fella nearly wet himself.

He walked up to an attending he knew for barely a week, mumbled something about a letter of rec, thrust out his CV and cover letter, and was nearly bowled over in shock when the attending said, "Of course."

Is it that simple? I was under the impression we needed to know an attending for a longer period of time (seriously...a week?! We've been on this rotation together for a week!), needed to explain the ERAS cover letter and the whole process of waiving our viewing rights, and at least go over key points on the CV that we'd like mentioned in the LOR.

Is there no need to do all this since attendings are well-versed in what students need for their LOR?

I'd recommend asking in a more private place, perhaps by making an appointment to meet them in their office. This isn't necessary, but it's like asking to marry someone in front of a crowd -- if she turns you down, it really sucks.

There is little explaining to be done. We've all done it before. And if not, then we're a new hire, and we had it done for us when we applied.

I don't want your CV. Why bother rehashing what you have on your CV in your letter? A good letter writer will talk about your clinical experiences together and that's it -- no USMLE's, etc.

How much time is needed? Hard to say. Depends on the rotation and the person.

Personally, I tend to like to be asked for a letter early in the rotation, so I can collect ideas / work on it while I'm working with the student. Consider telling your faculty after a few days / first week.

 

[sestamibi]

Personally, I tend to like to be asked for a letter early in the rotation, so I can collect ideas / work on it while I'm working with the student. Consider telling your faculty after a few days / first week.

Interesting. My school recommends asking at the end of a rotation and always supplying the letter writer with our CV.

But your method seems to make more sense. Instead of re-hashing our CV, asking early gives the letter writer a chance to make it more personal and include clinical experiences.

I just might have to try it for my upcoming away rotation.

 

[Ludicolo]

aPD

How often do you turn down a request for a LOR? I've had a couple instances where I honestly had to tell someone that, based on their performance with me, I couldn't write them a strong letter. Have you ever written a lukewarm letter?

Just once, I would like to write a crappy letter.

 

[Winged Scapula]

aPD

How often do you turn down a request for a LOR? I've had a couple instances where I honestly had to tell someone that, based on their performance with me, I couldn't write them a strong letter. Have you ever written a lukewarm letter?

Just once, I would like to write a crappy letter.

That, I would like to see.

The worst I've ever seen was something along the lines of,

John was on our service from July 1 through July 30th.

He was punctual most days and completed most of the things asked of him. The nurses appreciated the brownies he brought on his last day of rotation. I'm told he is applying to X specialty.

Please feel free to call if you have any questions.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

aPD

How often do you turn down a request for a LOR? I've had a couple instances where I honestly had to tell someone that, based on their performance with me, I couldn't write them a strong letter. Have you ever written a lukewarm letter?

Just once, I would like to write a crappy letter.

It's rare. But it happens. I never refuse to write a letter, but I do tell people it will be honest and I tell them what will be in it. Usually, if they've struggled with me they struggle with the rotation in general, so sometime a letter from me helps -- clearly delineates what the problem is. And since I know many other PD's, it can sometimes make a program look more closely at a "complex" application.

 

[redruby]

I know that you're always supposed to ask for a "strong letter". What if the person replies that they'd be happy to write a "good letter"? Are these to be interpreted to be interchangeable? Did the letter writer just not want to repeat my original wording? Am I losing my mind and just reading too much into it? 😱

This letter would be 1/4 letters, including the department letter. I do really need it though, because it was on a rotation where I did struggle a bit and I need the writer to do some of the explaining...

 

[Dr McSteamy]

heheh.

here's a rehash of a CV, transcript, and usmle scores.
probably something aProgDirector wouldn't write.

 

[Dr McSteamy]

yes. asking for a letter is very painless.

I think partly because they are not overwhelmed with writing one; they have templates in which they can switch the name, a few words, etc.

sometimes they ask you to write your own. several of my classmates and I had to do that. fine, ok..... I'll help you help me.

so it appears to be an easy task for them.

 

[Ludicolo]

If you and your colleagues are writing your own LORs, do you add that you "waive your rights to see this letter under the Family Rights and Privacy Act"?

 

[Samoa]

I actually don't see anything incompatible with writing the first draft, and saying you've waived your right to see the finished product. The signer can rewrite the whole thing if s/he likes, and if you've waived your right to see it, doesn't have to show you the letter that was actually sent.

 

[Dr McSteamy]

If you and your colleagues are writing your own LORs, do you add that you "waive your rights to see this letter under the Family Rights and Privacy Act"?

the waiver cover sheet instructs you to include in the body of the letter that the applicant has waived his right .
of course, it's redundant, because that's what the cover sheet is for.

i think it breaks the flow of the letter. and i've seen sample letters that don't include that stupid ferpa statement.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

the waiver cover sheet instructs you to include in the body of the letter that the applicant has waived his right .
of course, it's redundant, because that's what the cover sheet is for.

i think it breaks the flow of the letter. and i've seen sample letters that don't include that stupid ferpa statement.

The cover sheet is not included when the letter is sent to programs. Most letter writers include this as the last sentence, or after their sig.

 

[Rogue_Leader]

.

 

[Dr McSteamy]

The cover sheet is not included when the letter is sent to programs. Most letter writers include this as the last sentence, or after their sig.

so if the statement is not included........ you assume it's not waived?

how does it affect the believability of the letter?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

so if the statement is not included........ you assume it's not waived?

how does it affect the believability of the letter?

Not much difference either way.

Most letters include the statement.

For those that don't, esp for IMG's, there is usually a stamp on it saying "Access to this letter is Waived/not Waived -- from your friends at ERAS", presumably depending on the cover sheet (which is included when the letter comes back to your Dean's office, but is not scanned).

In any case, I would not lose much sleep over this.

 

[Brunette1981]

I don't know if this is unusual or not (I suspect not) but don't most Deans' offices tell applying students "I suggest you use Letters X and Y, maybe not Letter Z" so even if you haven't read it, you generally know which letters are good, which not so much for whatever reason?

 

[orientedtoself]

no, i did not get any such advice

I don't know if this is unusual or not (I suspect not) but don't most Deans' offices tell applying students "I suggest you use Letters X and Y, maybe not Letter Z" so even if you haven't read it, you generally know which letters are good, which not so much for whatever reason?

 

[orientedtoself]

heheh.

here's a rehash of a CV, transcript, and usmle scores.
probably something aProgDirector wouldn't write.

this letter is positive, but it doesn't say anything.

 

[165808]

I don't know if this is unusual or not (I suspect not) but don't most Deans' offices tell applying students "I suggest you use Letters X and Y, maybe not Letter Z" so even if you haven't read it, you generally know which letters are good, which not so much for whatever reason?

Nope, my Dean's Office emphasized many times they would NOT do that.

 

[atsai3]

I don't know if this is unusual or not (I suspect not) but don't most Deans' offices tell applying students "I suggest you use Letters X and Y, maybe not Letter Z" so even if you haven't read it, you generally know which letters are good, which not so much for whatever reason?

This of course would vary by school, but I would be surprised if any school did this. Certainly one of the student deans at my medical school specifically stated that she would not do this, with the main reason being that there is no objective measure of LOR quality; you may have a different opinion of what a strong LOR is, and for her to state that one of your LORs was better than another would be to impart a false sense of precision to her own guesstimate. If you were on very good terms with the registrar, sometimes s/he would tell you only in the most general terms "maybe you shouldn't use that letter", but that's about it.

Really it is up to the requester to assess for these things up front. Just ask your attending (or whomever is writing the letter), "can you write me a strong letter of recommendation?"

Best
-AT.

 

[Samoa]

There are schools that do give you hints about which letters they think are better to use. But as with any advice, you have to consider the source, and how well they understand the politics of your field.

For example, in some surgical specialties, a decent letter from someone in the field is going to help you a lot more than a stellar letter from someone in an unrelated specialty. So they might tell you that the great letter from your advisor is a better choice than the lackluster one from your away rotation, which in some fields would be VERY bad advice.