LOR question

[ririflame]

Hi all,

I have a rotation that I will be starting Sept 20th and I wanted to get a letter of recommendation from this rotation. Is it too late to do so at that point? I would only have 1 other internal medicine letter + chairman letter by that point. I'm applying internal medicine btw

Thanks

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[gutonc]

Hi all,

I have a rotation that I will be starting Sept 20th and I wanted to get a letter of recommendation from this rotation. Is it too late to do so at that point? I would only have 1 other internal medicine letter + chairman letter by that point. I'm applying internal medicine btw

Thanks

It's not too late for a LOR, but you need another one before then, otherwise your app will get screened out as incomplete. Find someone else to write you a LOR (Gen Surg, OB, FM, whatever) and get that in your file ASAP.

 

[ririflame]

So it is acceptable to apply to IM with 1 IM letter, 1 non IM letter, and chairman letter?

I was under the impression that I should have two IM letters not including chairman?

 

[Crayola227]

So it is acceptable to apply to IM with 1 IM letter, 1 non IM letter, and chairman letter?

I was under the impression that I should have two IM letters not including chairman?

how you said it first is what I did

 

[GoSpursGo]

So it is acceptable to apply to IM with 1 IM letter, 1 non IM letter, and chairman letter?

I was under the impression that I should have two IM letters not including chairman?

That is accurate, and you will have them by the time you actually interview. However you should still get a non-IM letter so you can submit when ERAS opens with a complete app, otherwise you'll be screened out as gutonc says.

 

[xClashx]

similar situation as you too but I am going for anesthesiology.
I just did an IM sub-i. Do I get a clerkship director letter or do I get a Department letter.

 

[Virgo32]

I'm an IMG. Is it okay to have a LOR from IMG physicians who completed their residencies in the USA and from research people whom we worked with ( they are in the university program but they have Ph.D.)???

 

[GoSpursGo]

You almost certainly need at least one MD who is currently at a US institution who can comment on your clinical abilities.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I would recommend no more than 1 letter from a non-physician.

 

[Wahine172]

Hello! I’m new here. Probably this has been ask. Im US IMG with U clinical experiences. Preceptor just sent me a LORs, can I uploaded myself? So I will have any problem with it? Pleas post any information at all with this.

Much Mahalo

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Yes. You create a slot for the LOR in ERAS, then use the portal to upload the letter with the code provided.

 

[danube123]

How is assigning 2 research letters perceived by programs? For example, 1 research letter from MD that I did research for a year, 1 research letter from a Ph.D that I did research for a year, and 2 clinical letters from MDs that I did electives with.

 

[gutonc]

How is assigning 2 research letters perceived by programs? For example, 1 research letter from MD that I did research for a year, 1 research letter from a Ph.D that I did research for a year, and 2 clinical letters from MDs that I did electives with.

It's perceived like you weren't able to get enough clinical LORs. So don't do it.

 

[GoSpursGo]

And to be clear, unless you ASKED for this letter to be given directly to you for your review, you do not need to list this letter as "unwaived."

 

[pyknosis]

Hi, I'm in the process of getting my LORs submitted but forgot to put titles for the attendings, like "attending physician". Will it be fine just to put:

Name: John Doe
Internal Medicine

Without elaborating on anything else, like attending physician, etc? I guess my worry is, will the programs think that I got a letter of rec from a resident?

Thanks for the help!

 

[gutonc]

Your LOR writer will include his/her title in the signature. You're worried about nothing.

 

[gutonc]

We don't need 47 different LOR question threads. So now we have one.

 

[pyknosis]

Your LOR writer will include his/her title in the signature. You're worried about nothing.

Thank you, I figured as much. But just wanted to make sure. Applications and interviews makes us med students antsy....

 

[danube123]

What would you suggest regarding the IM chair letter for IMGs? I have 4 US LORs. Should I replace one of them with non-US Chair letter or should I assume that resident selection committee doesn't care too much about non-US letters and go with 4 US LORs without any IM chair letter?

In another way, how strict are the programs towards IMGs regarding chair letter?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

IMG chair letters are useless. Submit 4 US LOR's

 

[jacobus1919]

I have a question though, would an NP LoR work for ERAS?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

In general, best avoided. Unless there is a specific reason you need a letter from this NP.

 

[jacobus1919]

It would make my US lor to 2, and the Np did helped me alot and taught me alot while I was shadowing the attending

 

[GoSpursGo]

It would make my US lor to 2, and the Np did helped me alot and taught me alot while I was shadowing the attending

You should get the attending to write you a letter. If your other US LOR is that same attending, then I don't think a letter from their NP is going to add anything and you'll look odd for having an NP write you a letter.

 

[Wahine172]

And to be clear, unless you ASKED for this letter to be given directly to you for your review, you do not need to list this letter as "unwaived."

Thank you for your response.

So, in this case I didn’t ask for the letter and he send it so like you suggested i could waived the right to see it. How would it be perceive if I’m still the one uploading it? How can I proved that I didnt request to be given to me?

Much Mahalo

 

[gutonc]

Thank you for your response.

So, in this case I didn’t ask for the letter and he send it so like you suggested i could waived the right to see it. How would it be perceive if I’m still the one uploading it? How can I proved that I didnt request to be given to me?

Much Mahalo

Just click the "waived" button and move on with your life. Seriously.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thank you for your response.

So, in this case I didn’t ask for the letter and he send it so like you suggested i could waived the right to see it. How would it be perceive if I’m still the one uploading it? How can I proved that I didnt request to be given to me?

Much Mahalo

You will not be asked. This situation is not uncommon.

 

[bbb002]

Hello,

IMG here... I will take my Step-2 CK in mid september and get my score in October so will apply late in Match 2019, I wanted to ask if it's okay to request my LOR authors to upload the LOR after my CK exam or should I do that now? Is it possible to upload LORs after 15th Spetember? I was thinking of buying the ERAS token and filling out application after my Step 2-CK? Anyone else applying late? Plz Help! TIA

 

[Virgo32]

Is it okay to submit one of your LORs in mid-October? Or we need all of them by September 15?

 

[mvenus929]

You should get your letters in ASAP--you will be considered incomplete without at least 3 letters. If you have a fourth you want to include later, that's fine, but you should have all your other letters uploaded by Sept 15th.

 

[GoSpursGo]

You should get your letters in ASAP--you will be considered incomplete without at least 3 letters. If you have a fourth you want to include later, that's fine, but you should have all your other letters uploaded by Sept 15th.

Agree with this. You should still apply on 9/15, and just upload the CK score later once you get it.

 

[danube123]

I am not sure if I am being neurotic but can programs filter by the presence or absence of chair letter?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Yes, theoretically. I can ask ERAS to show me only applications that include a chair LOR, or those that don't, in combination with other requirements.

But practically, applicants are indiscriminate with the use of the "Dept Chair" checkbox. Some applications, all 4 letters are marked as "chair letters". In others, the department letter is written by someone other than the chair, and the applicant doesn't select that box. So although I could create a filter like this, the data is inconsistent enough that I wouldn't trust it.

This may vary by specialty. Perhaps in Ortho (picked at random), programs might always want a true chair's letter and might filter out applications which are missing it. It's possible, but unlikely.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You can add the 4th letter any time you want. Once you assign 4 letters to a program, you can't assign any more, and you can't switch one for another. Most programs will be happy to look at your application with 3 letters. "Complete" is purely up to programs to define. If a program decides that 3 letters are enough, then they may look at your app without this 4th letter. If you're interviewed, they will certainly see it then. If they reject you, no one is going to go back when the 4th letter comes in.

You should apply now, and then either save the 4th slot and add the letter when available. If you're worried about it, you could add a different letter now. Honestly, unless this is some sort of "killer" letter (whatever that is, since all LOR's state that the person they are writing about is the BEST medical student they have ever worked with), it probably doesn't matter.

The one place it would definitely matter is for an IMG with a limited number of US letters. In that case, you'd want to make sure they were in your app before submitting. If a program reviews your app with 3 foreign letters and your single US letter isn't there, they may pass over you and never go back.

 

[LeSteptaker]

Let's assume that I have a LOR that is 7/10 in terms of strength. Should I submit this LOR as 4th LOR to the programs that require at least 3 LOR or that requires only 3 LOR.

Another way, is there any chance that 7-8/10 LOR could hurt my application if added as 4th LOR to the application?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Anything could hurt or help. There isn't an answer to your question. Do whatever feels right.

 

[Teegirl]

Hello,

IMG here... I will take my Step-2 CK in mid september and get my score in October so will apply late in Match 2019, I wanted to ask if it's okay to request my LOR authors to upload the LOR after my CK exam or should I do that now? Is it possible to upload LORs after 15th Spetember? I was thinking of buying the ERAS token and filling out application after my Step 2-CK? Anyone else applying late? Plz Help! TIA

Hey! same shoe. We should hold each other's hands through this journey!!! I won't have CS and CK results till October. not sure if I should apply now, or when all results are out.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Hey! same shoe. We should hold each other's hands through this journey!!! I won't have CS and CK results till October. not sure if I should apply now, or when all results are out.

The answer is always apply now and update programs when you get your results.

 

[bloop213]

For programs that just say "application is complete once x number of LORs are uploaded", does that mean x is the maximum or I can submit more? I just want to know which programs I can send 4 LORs to, but more importantly I ran across a program that said 2 LORs would make a complete application.

 

[GoSpursGo]

For programs that just say "application is complete once x number of LORs are uploaded", does that mean x is the maximum or I can submit more? I just want to know which programs I can send 4 LORs to, but more importantly I ran across a program that said 2 LORs would make a complete application.

You can submit more. X is the minimum

 

[bloop213]

You can submit more. X is the minimum

Thanks!

 

[GoSpursGo]

So it's okay to submit more if their website says "We require 3 letters of recommendations"? I thought some advice here was to make sure we don't submit more than they ask for, because other programs clearly say "at least".
I've also seen some websites only asking for 2.

That is what I said... like aPD, unless all of your letters are stellar, it is highly unlikely that a 4th letter or lack thereof is going to make any difference whatsoever, unless you add one that is poor.

 

[cgk]

Yes, theoretically. I can ask ERAS to show me only applications that include a chair LOR, or those that don't, in combination with other requirements.

But practically, applicants are indiscriminate with the use of the "Dept Chair" checkbox. Some applications, all 4 letters are marked as "chair letters". In others, the department letter is written by someone other than the chair, and the applicant doesn't select that box. So although I could create a filter like this, the data is inconsistent enough that I wouldn't trust it.

This may vary by specialty. Perhaps in Ortho (picked at random), programs might always want a true chair's letter and might filter out applications which are missing it. It's possible, but unlikely.

Is it mandatory that Osteopathic Students applying to IM have the "Chairman Letter" as one of their 3 LOR's in order to be considered for an interview invite by IM programs?

 

[rokshana]

So it is acceptable to apply to IM with 1 IM letter, 1 non IM letter, and chairman letter?

I was under the impression that I should have two IM letters not including chairman?

The most important thing is that you have GREAT letters...where they come from isn’t as important

So long as you have a chair letter to check off that box and a great IM letter you are good...in fact having great letters from other specialties can be seen as a good thing.

I had a chair letter, IM attending letter and the other 2 letters from chairs or surgery and on/gyn( they were my attendings) when I was applying and got comments on the interview trail about my really strong LoRs.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Chair letters at allopathic programs are (somewhat) standardized letters of reference. They rarely are written by the chair -- instead someone from the medical school writes them and the chair signs them. They are like "mini-MSPE's" summarizing your performance in IM rotations -- your 3rd year clerkship, 4th year SubI (if done), and any elective or research experiences. There's often some sort of grouping or ranking.

I often see DO's or IMG's try to submit one. It's usually useless. Sometimes the chair writes a letter that says "I don't really know this person but they seem nice". St G's chair letters are all exactly the same -- completely identical except for the name on the letter. As a DO or IMG I would only submit a chair letter if you're certain it's useful.

 

[cgk]

Chair letters at allopathic programs are (somewhat) standardized letters of reference. They rarely are written by the chair -- instead someone from the medical school writes them and the chair signs them. They are like "mini-MSPE's" summarizing your performance in IM rotations -- your 3rd year clerkship, 4th year SubI (if done), and any elective or research experiences. There's often some sort of grouping or ranking.

I often see DO's or IMG's try to submit one. It's usually useless. Sometimes the chair writes a letter that says "I don't really know this person but they seem nice". St G's chair letters are all exactly the same -- completely identical except for the name on the letter. As a DO or IMG I would only submit a chair letter if you're certain it's useful.

I assume if you are a DO student and you are applying to a program that clearly states on their website that a Chairman Letter is a requirement, that you need to submit one. Would you agree?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I guess so. Most places that state this are thinking about MD/Allo applicants. Most DO and IMG "Chair letters" are completely useless.

 

[rokshana]

I guess so. Most places that state this are thinking about MD/Allo applicants. Most DO and IMG "Chair letters" are completely useless.

True enough, but if you don’t have it , then many programs will consider your application incomplete...it’s a catch 22 that you just have to deal with... OP, that’s why it’s important for the other 3 letter be great.

 

[Jarisch-Herxheimer]

N/A

 

[gutonc]

Hi,

I’m a DO student applying for psych this fall.

I currently have 1 letter from a psych MD attending I worked with and 1 chair letter from my school (PsyD). These are 2 strong letters I hope to send to every program I'm applying to.

I have 3 aways at 3 different institutions, one that ends next week (8/23), the second ends 9/20, and a third that ends 10/18.
- 1st one: Outpatient that is affiliated with an academic institution, letter is neutral-good
- 2nd one: Non-academic institution that's regionally known
- 3rd one: Same academic institution that I got my first letter (from above)

I have also asked for a letter from my Surgery attending and an outpatient FM attending, both are strong-good.

--

My question is:
1. Which combination of letters should I send to ERAS? I have 2 letters as base, but I'm wondering what should be my 3rd letter?

2. Would it be a sound strategy to submit 3 letters on 9/15 and pick and choose the 4th letter (according to type of institution from either 1/2/3 rotation above) as I see fit, as long as it’s within a program’s deadline?


Thank you so much!

Send your 2 psych LORs now and the FM (or Surg, whichever you think is better) to make the 3rd. Doesn't sound like the one you'll get from the current rotation is worth sending. If you can kill the 2nd rotation and get a GREAT letter, send that. the 3rd rotation will probably be too late unless the writer gets it out in a week or two after the rotation is done.