Apr 3, 2019
2
1
Status
  1. Pharmacy Student
Hello,

as a pharmD student, Our school never had any issues in the past with accreditation (which is amazing) . but because of losing a lot of faculty (professors) as of today

that how its showing now for the school
Review PeriodReview TypeBoard ActionAccreditation Status
2024-2025Comprehensive
2022-2023Interim
2020-2021Interim
2019-2020InterimAffirmedAccredited
2018-2019InterimAffirmedAccredited
my questions are:
- will student who entered in 2019 be effected if it losses accreditation?
- how about students on their last year ?
- will school that has been on for years stops their pharmD ? (its private school)
is it easy to lose accreditation?
when can accreditation be taken off ?
has anyone transferred before? how was transferring to different pharmd program? did u have to retake all ?


thank you so much for your time!
 

Marzapan

10+ Year Member
Dec 27, 2009
439
598
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  1. Pre-Pharmacy
  2. Pharmacist
I would just find a new career. Since you're a diploma-mill caliber student, you'd be bottom of the class if other schools let you transfer to their institution. Add that on to the existing problems pharmacy is dealing with and there is just not going to be any positive outcome for you.
 
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coolsands155

2+ Year Member
May 10, 2016
225
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Go into nursing. You can make 70-100k working 36 hours a week depending on where you live. (100k being California). Work nights/weekends and add 20% salary, work an extra shift and you can make 120-130k easily for 4 12s (48 hours). My pharmacy manager friend regret his decision and wishes he went into medicine (he definitely had the grades for it). Nursing (and possible NP/CRNA in the future) is a good option as well and much quicker.
 
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Apr 3, 2019
2
1
Status
  1. Pharmacy Student
I did not ask for changing career opinion was asking if someone knows the process of terminating the accreditation from a pharmD school. I appreciate your replies though but i am very passionate about my career.
 
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PharmtoCS

7+ Year Member
Aug 2, 2011
2,631
2,889
I would just switch careers and cut your losses. There aren't going to be any jobs when you graduate.
 
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coolsands155

2+ Year Member
May 10, 2016
225
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I have friends who graduated from established top schools who are only able to find $70k jobs after 1.5+ years of searching. Cut your losses now while you're still young, in less debt than a grad, and motivated to pursue another career. 1-2 years to pivot is better than regretting a 30+ year career
 

VA77

10+ Year Member
Apr 6, 2010
555
559
VIRGINIA
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Do not go to any school in bottom 25%. ACPE has a target on their head and no school is going to tell you they might lose accreditation in their next review. These schools are nothing more than used car salesman
 
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coolsands155

2+ Year Member
May 10, 2016
225
321
Status
  1. Medical Student
I did not ask for changing career opinion was asking if someone knows the process of terminating the accreditation from a pharmD school. I appreciate your replies though but i am very passionate about my career.
You do you. You won't have a "career" instead you'll be sitting in the corner twiddling your thumb. Here's a quick google search

0% expected job growth in the next 10 years, with the current data we have. Amazon has already bought out the company that mails prescriptions. Give it 1-2 years to really get moving after COVID and I'll expect things to get worse.

Nursing is 12%, medicine 7%, etc
 

Marzapan

10+ Year Member
Dec 27, 2009
439
598
Status
  1. Pre-Pharmacy
  2. Pharmacist
Here are a few pharmacy related news articles and studies worth reading:

• ⁠BLS projects 0% growth in pharmacist jobs over the next decade (actually negative) while similar occupations will all grow at a faster than average pace Pharmacists : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

• ⁠Becker's Hospital Review "'We're training our kids for jobs that won't exist" 'We're training our kids for jobs that won't exist': Community Health Systems director of pharmacy on the industry's changing landscape. Terry Baughman, regional director of pharmacy for Franklin, Tenn.-based Community Health Systems, has 45 years of experience in the pharmacy industry. Starting his career at a pharmacy management company, he went on to spend 10 years teaching pharmacists how to become directors of pharmacy.

• ⁠Drug Topic: There are too many colleges of pharmacy Opinion: There are Too Many Colleges of Pharmacy

• ⁠AJPE data analysis on oversupply of pharmacists and slow and minimal change in practice: https://www.ajpe.org/doi/full/10.5688/ajpe7051

• ⁠"Although I feel bad for those students facing job placement difficulties, ACPE is unable to change its review process" ACPE's response Opinion: PharmD Quality vs Quantity

• ⁠APhA admits there is a surplus of pharmacists and expanded roles are growing more slowly than expected https://www.pharmacist.com/press-re...atorium-accreditation-new-pharmd-institutions

• ⁠A Looming Joblessness Crisis for New Pharmacy Graduates A Looming Joblessness Crisis for New Pharmacy Graduates and the Implications It Holds for the Academy

• ⁠Trends in the Pharmacist Workforce and Pharmacy education https://www.ajpe.org/doi/full/10.5688/ajpe7051

• ⁠HRSA Allied Health Workforce Projections, 2016-2030: Pharmacists. Oversupply projected https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/bhw/nchwa/projections/pharmacists-2016-2030.pdf

• ⁠Getting into Pharmacy School is Now Dangerously Easy Why Getting into Pharmacy School is Now Dangerously Easy | Student Loan Planner

• ⁠UAMS 2018 survey: only 55% of class accepted a position and 24% believed opportunities were good https://pharmcollege.uams.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2018/07/UAMS-Salary-Survey-2018.pdf compared to 89% accepting a position and 63% believing opportunities were good 2 years ago https://pharmcollege.uams.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2018/07/UAMS-Salary-Survey-2018.pdf

News stories

• ⁠Rural pharmacies closing https://health.usnews.com/health-ca...es-are-closing-where-does-that-leave-patients

• ⁠185 Fred's pharmacies close Walgreens to Purchase Pharmacy Files of 185 Fred's Pharmacies

• ⁠600 Rite Aids close Walgreens to close 600 Rite Aid stores

• ⁠Shopko bankruptcy – 145 pharmacies close: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucej...ay-for-cvs-walgreens-and-kroger/#77c0172772ba

• ⁠Walmart layoff 40% of its pharmacists: Walmart Layoffs: Retailer To Eliminate Up To 40 Percent Of Its Pharmacists

• ⁠Walgreens closes 200 stores Walgreens to close 200 stores in US

• ⁠CVS to close 22 more stores after closing 46 earlier this year https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...e-closings-22-stores-shutter-2020/4175916002/

• ⁠CVS closes 46 locations: https://www.al.com/news/2019/05/cvs...ing-including-3-in-alabama-complete-list.html

• ⁠42 Shopko pharmacies close https://www.jsonline.com/story/mone...r-buying-shopko-pharmacy-business/2265296002/

• ⁠Healthmart closes 30 pharmacies, putting 300 employees out of a job HealthPartners to close 30 retail pharmacies

• ⁠The Pharmacist Is Out: Supermarkets Close Pharmacy Counters The Pharmacist Is Out: Supermarkets Close Pharmacy Counters

• ⁠"some pharmacists who went into residency […] are not able to find jobs and they've been looking since July" HealthPartners decision illustrates a trend for pharmacies: Fewer of them

• ⁠How Chaos at Chain Pharmacies Is Putting Patients at Risk How Chaos at Chain Pharmacies Is Putting Patients at Risk
 
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Sine Cura

#BlackNusMatter
10+ Year Member
Feb 5, 2010
3,224
2,454
Status
  1. Pharmacist
As a dangling modifier, my palm has hit face
 
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May 11, 2019
126
129
Status
  1. Pharmacy Student
Hello,

as a pharmD student, Our school never had any issues in the past with accreditation (which is amazing) . but because of losing a lot of faculty (professors) as of today

It seems SOME of the faculty there may have a conscious and are trying to tell you something by quitting, where there is smoke, there is fire. Some faculty know they are sending naive students into a future full of debt and they are choosing to leave rather than profit off your debt. Little do they know they can't save pharm students (bottom of the barrel in terms of medical students). I bet your quitting faulty could right out tell you that there is no future and you would still say they are lying. Ignorance is bliss for those without critical thinking skills.

Passion doesn't pay the loans and put food on the table, nor does it put gas in the tank. Welcome to debt.

FYI: Faculty members are also quitting because the pharmacy bubble has already burst. They need to get the available jobs they can before all the other professors jump ship and follow suit.
 
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coolsands155

2+ Year Member
May 10, 2016
225
321
Status
  1. Medical Student
It seems SOME of the faculty there may have a conscious and are trying to tell you something by quitting, where there is smoke, there is fire. Some faculty know they are sending naive students into a future full of debt and they are choosing to leave rather than profit off your debt. Little do they know they can't save pharm students (bottom of the barrel in terms of medical students). I bet your quitting faulty could right out tell you that there is no future and you would still say they are lying. Ignorance is bliss for those without critical thinking skills.

Passion doesn't pay the loans and put food on the table, nor does it put gas in the tank. Welcome to debt.

FYI: Faculty members are also quitting because the pharmacy bubble has already burst. They need to get the available jobs they can before all the other professors jump ship and follow suit.

For what it's worth. Probably 90% of pharmacy students couldn't get into an MD school, and maybe 70% couldn't make it into DO (without some extra coursework etc). With that said, two pharm grads applied and matriculated into my state's MD school (where I did my SMP) this year with 200k in loans each. They saw the bleak future of pharmacy and decided to jump ship (and they had the grades/ stats for it - many current pharmacy students don't) to pursue medical school. The extra debt is NOTHING compared to being unemployed or working for $25/hr like many pharmacists are doing now in Canada (Canada lets anyone with a foreign pharm degree take a test and work).

If the faculty is quitting, they know the reality, and their humanistic side doesn't allow them to profiteer from naive student unlike the administration.
 
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VA77

10+ Year Member
Apr 6, 2010
555
559
VIRGINIA
Status
  1. Pharmacist
Yeah if the faculty are leaving then the rats are leaving the ship and its up to you if you want to go down with the captain.
 
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APN-59 rph

2+ Year Member
Dec 19, 2016
359
185
Status
  1. Pharmacist
Here are a few pharmacy related news articles and studies worth reading:

• ⁠BLS projects 0% growth in pharmacist jobs over the next decade (actually negative) while similar occupations will all grow at a faster than average pace Pharmacists : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

• ⁠Becker's Hospital Review "'We're training our kids for jobs that won't exist" 'We're training our kids for jobs that won't exist': Community Health Systems director of pharmacy on the industry's changing landscape. Terry Baughman, regional director of pharmacy for Franklin, Tenn.-based Community Health Systems, has 45 years of experience in the pharmacy industry. Starting his career at a pharmacy management company, he went on to spend 10 years teaching pharmacists how to become directors of pharmacy.

• ⁠Drug Topic: There are too many colleges of pharmacy Opinion: There are Too Many Colleges of Pharmacy

• ⁠AJPE data analysis on oversupply of pharmacists and slow and minimal change in practice: https://www.ajpe.org/doi/full/10.5688/ajpe7051

• ⁠"Although I feel bad for those students facing job placement difficulties, ACPE is unable to change its review process" ACPE's response Opinion: PharmD Quality vs Quantity

• ⁠APhA admits there is a surplus of pharmacists and expanded roles are growing more slowly than expected https://www.pharmacist.com/press-re...atorium-accreditation-new-pharmd-institutions

• ⁠A Looming Joblessness Crisis for New Pharmacy Graduates A Looming Joblessness Crisis for New Pharmacy Graduates and the Implications It Holds for the Academy

• ⁠Trends in the Pharmacist Workforce and Pharmacy education https://www.ajpe.org/doi/full/10.5688/ajpe7051

• ⁠HRSA Allied Health Workforce Projections, 2016-2030: Pharmacists. Oversupply projected https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/bhw/nchwa/projections/pharmacists-2016-2030.pdf

• ⁠Getting into Pharmacy School is Now Dangerously Easy Why Getting into Pharmacy School is Now Dangerously Easy | Student Loan Planner

• ⁠UAMS 2018 survey: only 55% of class accepted a position and 24% believed opportunities were good https://pharmcollege.uams.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2018/07/UAMS-Salary-Survey-2018.pdf compared to 89% accepting a position and 63% believing opportunities were good 2 years ago https://pharmcollege.uams.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2018/07/UAMS-Salary-Survey-2018.pdf

News stories

• ⁠Rural pharmacies closing https://health.usnews.com/health-ca...es-are-closing-where-does-that-leave-patients

• ⁠185 Fred's pharmacies close Walgreens to Purchase Pharmacy Files of 185 Fred's Pharmacies

• ⁠600 Rite Aids close Walgreens to close 600 Rite Aid stores

• ⁠Shopko bankruptcy – 145 pharmacies close: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucej...ay-for-cvs-walgreens-and-kroger/#77c0172772ba

• ⁠Walmart layoff 40% of its pharmacists: Walmart Layoffs: Retailer To Eliminate Up To 40 Percent Of Its Pharmacists

• ⁠Walgreens closes 200 stores Walgreens to close 200 stores in US

• ⁠CVS to close 22 more stores after closing 46 earlier this year https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...e-closings-22-stores-shutter-2020/4175916002/

• ⁠CVS closes 46 locations: https://www.al.com/news/2019/05/cvs...ing-including-3-in-alabama-complete-list.html

• ⁠42 Shopko pharmacies close https://www.jsonline.com/story/mone...r-buying-shopko-pharmacy-business/2265296002/

• ⁠Healthmart closes 30 pharmacies, putting 300 employees out of a job HealthPartners to close 30 retail pharmacies

• ⁠The Pharmacist Is Out: Supermarkets Close Pharmacy Counters The Pharmacist Is Out: Supermarkets Close Pharmacy Counters

• ⁠"some pharmacists who went into residency […] are not able to find jobs and they've been looking since July" HealthPartners decision illustrates a trend for pharmacies: Fewer of them

• ⁠How Chaos at Chain Pharmacies Is Putting Patients at Risk How Chaos at Chain Pharmacies Is Putting Patients at Risk
I would say that this about sums it up and closes the discussion...If you can review this and still want to press on...Don't say you were not warned...Ya know what PT Barnum said....
 

Xenophylia

Charles Darwin fan club president
2+ Year Member
Apr 18, 2018
798
958
Status
  1. Pharmacist
CVS and Larry Merlo love and respect your passion. At best they will own your soul when you graduate. At worst, they won't. You have been warned.
 
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coolsands155

2+ Year Member
May 10, 2016
225
321
Status
  1. Medical Student
CVS and Larry Merlo love and respect your passion. At best they will own your soul when you graduate. At worst, they won't. You have been warned.
Tbh. Even beyond "passion", In some cultures (SE Asian, ME, etc) it is a status symbol and parents run around telling everybody their son/daughter is a "DOKTOR" regardless of whether or not they're employed or make any money. In Pakistan some 70% of med students are females and over 77% do not work after graduating. So the ability to have nearly 100% guaranteed acceptance into pharmacy school is an enticing opportunity. I know of one family who sent both daughters to pharmacy school for this very reason.
 
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Xenophylia

Charles Darwin fan club president
2+ Year Member
Apr 18, 2018
798
958
Status
  1. Pharmacist
And don't forget, those females might even meet another "doctor" to marry! What a bonus.... LOL
 

manan121

5+ Year Member
Nov 3, 2015
170
22
Status
  1. Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
I would assume that the ACPE would atleast have you graduate with the accreditation if you’re almost done. That’s what other schools like Howard did
 

ValeRx

Not Retail
10+ Year Member
Dec 15, 2008
1,850
629
Midwest
Status
  1. Pharmacist
There's a reason why you are warned about pre-candidate and pre-accreditation status while applying. You are rolling the dice that they will be accredited by the time you graduate or you cannot sit for the NAPLEX.
 

NorthTexasPharmacist

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jul 30, 2020
133
88
Status
  1. Pharmacist
Hello,

as a pharmD student, Our school never had any issues in the past with accreditation (which is amazing) . but because of losing a lot of faculty (professors) as of today

that how its showing now for the school
Review PeriodReview TypeBoard ActionAccreditation Status
2024-2025Comprehensive
2022-2023Interim
2020-2021Interim
2019-2020InterimAffirmedAccredited
2018-2019InterimAffirmedAccredited
my questions are:
- will student who entered in 2019 be effected if it losses accreditation?
- how about students on their last year ?
- will school that has been on for years stops their pharmD ? (its private school)
is it easy to lose accreditation?
when can accreditation be taken off ?
has anyone transferred before? how was transferring to different pharmd program? did u have to retake all ?


thank you so much for your time!
Not sure if you would be affected directly if your school loses accreditation. I would be worried that your school isn't up to bare minimal standards in its practice and question what they're teaching you is substantiated. I would also worry about not being prepared to pass the NAPLEX and the MPJE.

Schools can get their accreditation back once they improve but the way our profession is right now, there is a good chance your school will close down in the future. I would def consider transferring out or see if some of your credits can be transferred to a PA or a nursing program. Heck, if you're up for it, go to med school.
 
Apr 28, 2019
50
10
Status
  1. Pre-Pharmacy
You do you. You won't have a "career" instead you'll be sitting in the corner twiddling your thumb. Here's a quick google search

0% expected job growth in the next 10 years, with the current data we have. Amazon has already bought out the company that mails prescriptions. Give it 1-2 years to really get moving after COVID and I'll expect things to get worse.

Nursing is 12%, medicine 7%, etc
I think retail will die out. Most pharmacists will be without a job with the industry changing and the fact that they cannot simply translate to a hospital setting. I expect many schools to close down or reduce their class sizes due to a huge decrease in applications, and an eventual residency requirement for any pharmacist in a clinical role. As we all know, residencies are limited, and at this point students from the top institutions will have the best chance at success.
 
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coolsands155

2+ Year Member
May 10, 2016
225
321
Status
  1. Medical Student
I think retail will die out. Most pharmacists will be without a job with the industry changing and the fact that they cannot simply translate to a hospital setting. I expect many schools to close down or reduce their class sizes due to a huge decrease in applications, and an eventual residency requirement for any pharmacist in a clinical role. As we all know, residencies are limited, and at this point students from the top institutions will have the best chance at success.
And when the saturation gets so bad that they're all unemployed and pharmacy school's start shutting down (some are already), people think it will "balance itself out" as if its some hunter-predator relationship but that's far from the truth. What will happen is the US will take the same approach as Canada and allow foreign pharmacists to come work here after passing some exam and they'll gladly work for $20-$25/hr like they do in Canada. The US is already the FRIENDLIEST country in terms of accepting IMGs/FMGs (foreign and international doctors), 1/3 of residents each year are IMG/FMG, no other country comes close (I think second most is 5%).
When the gates open for foreign pharmacy grads, it'll be a blood bath. Those people are used to working for $500/month in their home countries and have $0 debt so they'll gladly work for $20/hr here if it gets them a visa.
 
Apr 28, 2019
50
10
Status
  1. Pre-Pharmacy
And when the saturation gets so bad that they're all unemployed and pharmacy school's start shutting down (some are already), people think it will "balance itself out" as if its some hunter-predator relationship but that's far from the truth. What will happen is the US will take the same approach as Canada and allow foreign pharmacists to come work here after passing some exam and they'll gladly work for $20-$25/hr like they do in Canada. The US is already the FRIENDLIEST country in terms of accepting IMGs/FMGs (foreign and international doctors), 1/3 of residents each year are IMG/FMG, no other country comes close (I think second most is 5%).
When the gates open for foreign pharmacy grads, it'll be a blood bath. Those people are used to working for $500/month in their home countries and have $0 debt so they'll gladly work for $20/hr here if it gets them a visa.

The thing is I don't think it can realistically get that low. Right now we are close to the bottom in terms of salaries. People don't understand that the starting salary in a lot of places is the same now as it was 10-15 years ago, that is absolutely terrible. $35 might be the absolute bottom. If it dips further than that, you will have some techs that are making the same wage.

Instead, I think we are going to see a redefinition of what it is to be a pharmacist. Those in clinical positions and academia will be compensated decently well but will also have residencies required of them and positions overall will be limited (I just hope we don't create an excess of residencies like we did with opening schools). This also means most retail pharmacists in the market right now will be out of luck. Additionally, incoming pharmacists will have to think long and hard knowing that residences are hard to get, and without a residency their only option will be becoming a drug rep or a few other areas that will survive but won't require clinical experience (assuming retail goes to **** and clinical positions make up the bulk of jobs).

I think most people should avoid going into pharmacy nowadays, but if you're going to do it, you must realize the profession will change profusely and you better be prepared for it. In the future there will be a whole lot less positions and those that exist will be clinical with residencies most likely required.
 
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