low 2.7 gpa, any pharmacy school or dental school (with postbacc) I might have a chance at?

[RetroZhurk]

(Hey guys, so this is my first time posting on this forum, so please if I've asked an already answered question, forgive me, I'm still trying to figure my way around on this lol)

So currently looking at the pre-req classes that I have left and given that my gpa is pretty low would considering pharmacy be a better alternative? I'm in quite a dilemma, whether or not I should just take a few more pre-reqs (microbio, physics I, calculus & A&P) and just go for pharmacy school preferably in the state of florida such as NOVA/LECOM (from what I've read on these forums, LECOM pharm. isn't a good choice) or should I just finish the pre-req of biochem and study for the DAT & then apply for LECOM's post bacc and try to get into their dental school from there? (I’m currently trying to do dental but my current situation is making it very tough :/



-I have a few good letter of recommendations from doctors I've shadowed and currently have been shadowing a dentist for a year or so.

-Also hopefully I'll be starting a 200hr volunteering program at florida hospital during this winter break.



How bad are my chances guys I've looked in the "under 3.0 club" and it really has given me a bit of encouragement, I just hope it's not too late to turn my life around.



Any advice is greatly appreciated!

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[promethion]

I'm in the under 3.0 club! I graduated undergrad with a 2.9 overall GPA and 2.6 science GPA. Did a 1-year master's (not an SMP) and -killed- it with a 3.9 GPA. Did decent on DAT (21 AA, 20 TS) and then I got 2 pre-December interviews and 2 post-December interviews. I got accepted to a dental school on Friday! My advice would be to finish up undergrad as strong as possible, definitely do a post-bacc/master's, and kill the DAT. Most schools require several letter from science professors, so you'll need to secure good letters from professors as well. I only sent one letter from a dentist. Hope this helps!!!

 

[wjc]

It's never ever too late to turn your life around, it might take a lot of work, but you can do it. I graduated years ago with a 2.7, finished a 2nd degree and prereqs in 2014 with a 4.0, did well on the DAT, and just got into school on Friday after 4 years of applying. (3 years only applying at the one school I got into).

Consider why your GPA is lower than you would like, you will want to do better to make a post bac worth the time and effort. If you don't get in right away, where will you be while you reapply, what kind of work can you do? How seriously are you considering pharmacy, if that is easier and fulfilling for you, maybe it's a good choice, but if your heart is set on dentistry, then you owe yourself a serious shot at trying to get into dental school. I had an MD who does admissions at a Med school tell me that I should make sure that if I don't get it, it's not because of something I did. In other words, put in the very best performance that you can, then if you don't get in you may be disappointed, but you will never be disappointed in yourself.

Good luck.

 

[.-.]

(Hey guys, so this is my first time posting on this forum, so please if I've asked an already answered question, forgive me, I'm still trying to figure my way around on this lol)

So currently looking at the pre-req classes that I have left and given that my gpa is pretty low would considering pharmacy be a better alternative? I'm in quite a dilemma, whether or not I should just take a few more pre-reqs (microbio, physics I, calculus & A&P) and just go for pharmacy school preferably in the state of florida such as NOVA/LECOM (from what I've read on these forums, LECOM pharm. isn't a good choice) or should I just finish the pre-req of biochem and study for the DAT & then apply for LECOM's post bacc and try to get into their dental school from there? (I’m currently trying to do dental but my current situation is making it very tough :/



-I have a few good letter of recommendations from doctors I've shadowed and currently have been shadowing a dentist for a year or so.

-Also hopefully I'll be starting a 200hr volunteering program at florida hospital during this winter break.



How bad are my chances guys I've looked in the "under 3.0 club" and it really has given me a bit of encouragement, I just hope it's not too late to turn my life around.



Any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[doc toothache]

Before departing on a trip, it would be wise to decide on the destination.

 

[9predent9]

You should work towards what you want to do. Yeah pharmacy would be easier but will you be happy being a pharmacist or a dentist?

 

[Roogbyman]

Fight for the fairytale. If there's something you want then go out there and get it. I graduated with a GPA lower than your's, wound up taking several years of remedial coursework/a formal post-bacc program, retook the DAT and scored quite well (24 AA) and was accepted into three schools this past Friday. My biggest piece of advice is to address the why behind your academic performance thus far. Personally, I needed to reevaluate my priorities as well as the way I study. Don't be afraid to start from scratch here, once you figure out the best way you learn it makes academia a much more rewarding and fruitful process. Feel free to PM with any specific questions, always happy to help. Good luck!!

 

[ncide]

Fight for the fairytale. If there's something you want then go out there and get it. I graduated with a GPA lower than your's, wound up taking several years of remedial coursework/a formal post-bacc program, retook the DAT and scored quite well (24 AA) and was accepted into three schools this past Friday. My biggest piece of advice is to address the why behind your academic performance thus far. Personally, I needed to reevaluate my priorities as well as the way I study. Don't be afraid to start from scratch here, once you figure out the best way you learn it makes academia a much more rewarding and fruitful process. Feel free to PM with any specific questions, always happy to help. Good luck!!

All your work makes me think your avatar is an accurate depiction of you.

 

[Roogbyman]

All your work makes me think your avatar is an accurate depiction of you.

Haha just about, especially the triple chin

 

[RetroZhurk]

I'm in the under 3.0 club! I graduated undergrad with a 2.9 overall GPA and 2.6 science GPA. Did a 1-year master's (not an SMP) and -killed- it with a 3.9 GPA. Did decent on DAT (21 AA, 20 TS) and then I got 2 pre-December interviews and 2 post-December interviews. I got accepted to a dental school on Friday! My advice would be to finish up undergrad as strong as possible, definitely do a post-bacc/master's, and kill the DAT. Most schools require several letter from science professors, so you'll need to secure good letters from professors as well. I only sent one letter from a dentist. Hope this helps!!!

Should I do a master's or post bacc? Everywhere I seem to look, everyone has suggested post-bac and does it help to be in a post bac program of the school you wish to later apply to for grad school? (ex. doing the post bacc program for LECOM and trying to go to their dental school after)

 

[RetroZhurk]

It's never ever too late to turn your life around, it might take a lot of work, but you can do it. I graduated years ago with a 2.7, finished a 2nd degree and prereqs in 2014 with a 4.0, did well on the DAT, and just got into school on Friday after 4 years of applying. (3 years only applying at the one school I got into).

Consider why your GPA is lower than you would like, you will want to do better to make a post bac worth the time and effort. If you don't get in right away, where will you be while you reapply, what kind of work can you do? How seriously are you considering pharmacy, if that is easier and fulfilling for you, maybe it's a good choice, but if your heart is set on dentistry, then you owe yourself a serious shot at trying to get into dental school. I had an MD who does admissions at a Med school tell me that I should make sure that if I don't get it, it's not because of something I did. In other words, put in the very best performance that you can, then if you don't get in you may be disappointed, but you will never be disappointed in yourself.

Good luck.

The thing is, that's the predicament I'm in right now. Whether or not I should still pursue dentistry and start practicing for the DAT or should I just focus myself on getting the few more pre req classes I would need for pharmacy and take the PCAT. From what I've seen from few of the practice tests, the PCAT seems slightly less difficult. I just feel that I don't have what it takes to do very well on the DAT and it's really worrying me also given my current GPA. Are there any pharmacy schools that might consider me with a 2.7-2.8 GPA and average scrore on the PCAT?

Btw congratulations on getting into dental school! Wish you the very best in the future!

 

[promethion]

Should I do a master's or post bacc? Everywhere I seem to look, everyone has suggested post-bac and does it help to be in a post bac program of the school you wish to later apply to for grad school? (ex. doing the post bacc program for LECOM and trying to go to their dental school after)

So the term post-bacc can refer to anything you do after getting a Bachelor's. Some post-bacc programs award degrees (master's programs) and others just give you a certificate, etc. I think it's more worthwhile to complete a program that gives you a degree in the end. Even though most of the degrees are "useless" (like my Biomedical Sciences, M.S.), it does still give you a degree and I personally like having more structure which is why I opted for a Master's program over an informal post-bacc (just taking classes). Also, my Master's program implemented advising and gave us interview tips, personal statements, and a thesis-like project which I was able to mention during my interviews. I think many people would agree with me when I say that the best use of your time is to complete a Master's program that is linked to a dental program - most of these basically give you a guaranteed interview to the dental school upon successful completion of the program. You definitely need to do VERY well in these courses, regardless of which route you take.

I'm not sure if LECOM's program is an SMP since I've never personally researched the school, but you should def look into it! Just my two cents!

 

[wjc]

The thing is, that's the predicament I'm in right now. Whether or not I should still pursue dentistry and start practicing for the DAT or should I just focus myself on getting the few more pre req classes I would need for pharmacy and take the PCAT. From what I've seen from few of the practice tests, the PCAT seems slightly less difficult. I just feel that I don't have what it takes to do very well on the DAT and it's really worrying me also given my current GPA. Are there any pharmacy schools that might consider me with a 2.7-2.8 GPA and average scrore on the PCAT?

Btw congratulations on getting into dental school! Wish you the very best in the future!

Thank you!

Unfortunately, I don't know a whole lot about the application process and requirements for pharmacy to compare and contrast. Maybe while you are still figuring it out you can take a middle way, from your initial statement it appears that many of the classes that you would take for pharmacy would also function to potentially raise your GPA for a shot at dental school.

 

[RetroZhurk]

So the term post-bacc can refer to anything you do after getting a Bachelor's. Some post-bacc programs award degrees (master's programs) and others just give you a certificate, etc. I think it's more worthwhile to complete a program that gives you a degree in the end. Even though most of the degrees are "useless" (like my Biomedical Sciences, M.S.), it does still give you a degree and I personally like having more structure which is why I opted for a Master's program over an informal post-bacc (just taking classes). Also, my Master's program implemented advising and gave us interview tips, personal statements, and a thesis-like project which I was able to mention during my interviews. I think many people would agree with me when I say that the best use of your time is to complete a Master's program that is linked to a dental program - most of these basically give you a guaranteed interview to the dental school upon successful completion of the program. You definitely need to do VERY well in these courses, regardless of which route you take.

I'm not sure if LECOM's program is an SMP since I've never personally researched the school, but you should def look into it! Just my two cents!

How difficult would you say was your master's program? post-bacc is the same I'm guessing?

 

[Cheshireshrike]

Definitely not too late but you're going to have to bust your butt in a one year masters program, I would find a program instate and close to home so that you could save some money living with family and such. Good luck.

 

[Cheshireshrike]

How difficult would you say was your master's program? post-bacc is the same I'm guessing?

Post-bacc is usually the same thing as a one year masters program

 

[Tommyjj]

I'm in the under 3.0 club! I graduated undergrad with a 2.9 overall GPA and 2.6 science GPA. Did a 1-year master's (not an SMP) and -killed- it with a 3.9 GPA. Did decent on DAT (21 AA, 20 TS) and then I got 2 pre-December interviews and 2 post-December interviews. I got accepted to a dental school on Friday! My advice would be to finish up undergrad as strong as possible, definitely do a post-bacc/master's, and kill the DAT. Most schools require several letter from science professors, so you'll need to secure good letters from professors as well. I only sent one letter from a dentist. Hope this helps!!!

What school did you interview at? And accepted to?

 

[promethion]

What school did you interview at? And accepted to?

I've so far interviewed at ASDOH and UNLV, got accepted to UNLV. I also have interviews at Colorado and Midwestern-AZ coming up.

 

[promethion]

How difficult would you say was your master's program? post-bacc is the same I'm guessing?

It was hard, but not as hard as the faculty made it seem like it would be. I held a part-time job throughout the entire program (though I was one of maybe 2 people to do so) and still did well. Material wasn't difficult, but there was a lot of it. We'd have quizzes/exams every week so it was constant studying, but it was completely do-able. *Edit* I think a certificate post-bacc would be the same level of difficulty.

 

[cloclo101]

Listen, get into a master's program WITH a school that has a dental school associated with it. I suggest looking at BU oral health sciences program, BU nutrition and metabolism program, or Tufts medical sciences masters. See if you get in. If you do, KILL it and get at least a 3.8 GPA and score in the 20s for your DAT (I got a 23). Do a ton of shadowing (preferably if you can find a dental assisting job), community service, and research during your master's program. Also, retake any pre-reqs that you got lower than a C in. My undergrad science GPA was in the 2s. Thought that I didn't have a chance. I was just accepted to BU and Tufts. It is possible. Things that worked for me from feedback from interviews: do a lot of community service and show that you want this more this more than anything by doing anything dental related that you can for your extracurricular activities. I think doing a post-bac is a waste. Just do a master's and you can take classes for undergrad credit on the side during the summer or whatever on your own. Doing a master's will show that you can excel in the graduate level.

 

[Tommyjj]

I've so far interviewed at ASDOH and UNLV, got accepted to UNLV. I also have interviews at Colorado and Midwestern-AZ coming up.

How is UNLV anything stand out in particular?

 

[promethion]

How is UNLV anything stand out in particular?

I really liked my interview at UNLV. There were 2 interviews - one with a faculty member and one with a student. They actually try and pair you up with interviewers they think you may have things in common with and it worked out pretty perfectly. I love the fact that on Saturdays, they have different community clinics you can volunteer at. Also, cost of living is very affordable. The students I talked to said it was hard work, but they seemed happy. Also, being able to get in-state tuition after a year is a nice perk too.

 

[oceanicvibe]

Do dental schools really care if you do a formal/non-formal post-back or a master's program? I thought they just wanted to see that you took the classes they asked for and did well in them (only talking about pre-req part of the process and nothing else).

 

[cometx3]

You can get into a lower ranked pharm school with a 2.7 gpa but your pcat has to be 90th percentile to answer your question.I think for dental to get in you would probably have to do a masters no matter how well you score on the DAT. I think you can get away with doing a traditional masters associated with your state dental school over an SMP if you do very well on the DAT (a masters is MUCH easier and cheaper than an smp).

 

[crest4life]

Hi,

I’m new to sdn, so I’m just going to post here. I’m 2.8 ogpa. I’m taking my dats in February and applying to masters programs. I think it’ll be a waste to apply for dental school this cycle. So basically planning on doing my masters then applying to dental school for class of 2021 so basically next cycle. I have great letters and shadowing hours, and dentistry is what I want to do regardless how long it’ll take me. My gpa is low not because I’m not motivated or didn’t care, but I had tough circumstances and I don’t want to be pointing that out in my personal statement because they say don’t point out your negatives focus on your positives but hopefully I can explain this in my interview. But I need advice and would love to hear any miracle stories to anyone that was able to make something like my situation work.
Thanks!

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

@crest4life
Read through this thread to get an idea what similar people did to improve their apps. I think you will probably need to do the masters and apply June of 2020. Good luck on your DAT and with the rest of your classes .

 

[crest4life]

@crest4life
Read through this thread to get an idea what similar people did to improve their apps. I think you will probably need to do the masters and apply June of 2020. Good luck on your DAT and with the rest of your classes .

Thanks!

 

[Ollivander]

@crest4life
I think you will probably need to do the masters and apply June of 2020.

We're talking about an applicant with a 2.7 GPA. An applicant with a 2.7 undergrad GPA is going to be a longshot to get into a state school period. Meaning their best chance will be at private schools or OOS options, which will run them well over $400,000. You're suggesting they now add another $50,000+ onto that total debt to have a chance at improving their standing of possibly getting accepted into one of those expensive options. I'm not saying that OP doesn't need to do something to improve themselves as an applicant, but there are other routes out there. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Also there comes a point where the return on investment isn't worth it.

 

[2TH MVR]

We're talking about an applicant with a 2.7 GPA. An applicant with a 2.7 undergrad GPA is going to be a longshot to get into a state school period. Meaning their best chance will be at private schools or OOS options, which will run them well over $400,000. You're suggesting they now add another $50,000+ onto that total debt to have a chance at improving their standing of possibly getting accepted into one of those expensive options. I'm not saying that OP doesn't need to do something to improve themselves as an applicant, but there are other routes out there. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Also there comes a point where the return on investment isn't worth it.

Finally a realistic post.

 

[Ollivander]

Finally a realistic post.

Thanks! I appreciate that. Just so I don't get hammered I have been in the OP's situation. I was told by my only in-state option that I should pursue a masters, so I did. I went 800 miles away from home to start a one-year SMP and I quickly realized that I would probably pass, but I was not coming out of that program with a 3.8+ GPA which is what it takes. I realized I could pass dental school or any program too, but passing and being a top student are two completely different things. A masters program is not only a huge financial risk you're taking on, but it's an academic risk as well. If you don't do well in a masters program then not only is dental school now out of reach, so are other professions.

My advice and what I did is to take post-bacc classes at your state university or a local community college. That's what I did. You're going to need to do something either way, and post-bacc classes are less of an academic risk versus a masters program. They're also much, much cheaper. I wasn't in a situation of a 2.7 GPA though. Mine was a 3.2 sGPA, and I was able to pull it up to a 3.43 science GPA. I also decided to switch career paths though as well, so now I'm pursuing another healthcare profession. I had already been accepted into an OOS dental school the previous cycle that was going to cost over $500K when it was all said and done, but that's not a smart financial decision. I wasn't going to be happy paying off that kind of sizable loan for 20 years and be a slave to my debt. So I changed career trajectories to something my prereqs still counted towards, I took a year of post-bacc classes, then I took a gap year to get work-related experience, I applied this cycle, and I got into my #1 choice which was my in-state option and now I'm going to pay $60K for my grad program and come out making six figures instead of taking on that $500K loan for dental school.

What I'm getting at is sometimes we need to take a step back and ask ourselves if we're still on the best route for success and happiness. Pre-dental, pre-med, etc students break their backs for four or more years building up their academic and extra-curricular resumes and they get so focused on checking off a list to get into school that they never take the time to step back and ask themselves if that's still the best path for their individual situation. Is taking out another $50K+ for grad school to give yourself a shot as maybe being accepted into dental school that's going to run you another $400,000+ still worth it?

 

[SmileItsLife]

Thanks! I appreciate that. Just so I don't get hammered I have been in the OP's situation. I was told by my only in-state option that I should pursue a masters, so I did. I went 800 miles away from home to start a one-year SMP and I quickly realized that I would probably pass, but I was not coming out of that program with a 3.8+ GPA which is what it takes. I realized I could pass dental school or any program too, but passing and being a top student are two completely different things. A masters program is not only a huge financial risk you're taking on, but it's an academic risk as well. If you don't do well in a masters program then not only is dental school now out of reach, so are other professions.

My advice and what I did is to take post-bacc classes at your state university or a local community college. That's what I did. You're going to need to do something either way, and post-bacc classes are less of an academic risk versus a masters program. They're also much, much cheaper. I wasn't in a situation of a 2.7 GPA though. Mine was a 3.2 sGPA, and I was able to pull it up to a 3.43 science GPA. I also decided to switch career paths though as well, so now I'm pursuing another healthcare profession. I had already been accepted into an OOS dental school the previous cycle that was going to cost over $500K when it was all said and done, but that's not a smart financial decision. I wasn't going to be happy paying off that kind of sizable loan for 20 years and be a slave to my debt. So I changed career trajectories to something my prereqs still counted towards, I took a year of post-bacc classes, then I took a gap year to get work-related experience, I applied this cycle, and I got into my #1 choice which was my in-state option and now I'm going to pay $60K for my grad program and come out making six figures instead of taking on that $500K loan for dental school.

What I'm getting at is sometimes we need to take a step back and ask ourselves if we're still on the best route for success and happiness. Pre-dental, pre-med, etc students break their backs for four or more years building up their academic and extra-curricular resumes and they get so focused on checking off a list to get into school that they never take the time to step back and ask themselves if that's still the best path for their individual situation. Is taking out another $50K+ for grad school to give yourself a shot as maybe being accepted into dental school that's going to run you another $400,000+ still worth it?

So what kind of masters are you going to get?

 

[Ollivander]

So what kind of masters are you going to get?

I got accepted into PA school last week.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[SmileItsLife]

I got accepted into PA school last week.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Congrats!

 

[crest4life]

Thanks! I appreciate that. Just so I don't get hammered I have been in the OP's situation. I was told by my only in-state option that I should pursue a masters, so I did. I went 800 miles away from home to start a one-year SMP and I quickly realized that I would probably pass, but I was not coming out of that program with a 3.8+ GPA which is what it takes. I realized I could pass dental school or any program too, but passing and being a top student are two completely different things. A masters program is not only a huge financial risk you're taking on, but it's an academic risk as well. If you don't do well in a masters program then not only is dental school now out of reach, so are other professions.

My advice and what I did is to take post-bacc classes at your state university or a local community college. That's what I did. You're going to need to do something either way, and post-bacc classes are less of an academic risk versus a masters program. They're also much, much cheaper. I wasn't in a situation of a 2.7 GPA though. Mine was a 3.2 sGPA, and I was able to pull it up to a 3.43 science GPA. I also decided to switch career paths though as well, so now I'm pursuing another healthcare profession. I had already been accepted into an OOS dental school the previous cycle that was going to cost over $500K when it was all said and done, but that's not a smart financial decision. I wasn't going to be happy paying off that kind of sizable loan for 20 years and be a slave to my debt. So I changed career trajectories to something my prereqs still counted towards, I took a year of post-bacc classes, then I took a gap year to get work-related experience, I applied this cycle, and I got into my #1 choice which was my in-state option and now I'm going to pay $60K for my grad program and come out making six figures instead of taking on that $500K loan for dental school.

What I'm getting at is sometimes we need to take a step back and ask ourselves if we're still on the best route for success and happiness. Pre-dental, pre-med, etc students break their backs for four or more years building up their academic and extra-curricular resumes and they get so focused on checking off a list to get into school that they never take the time to step back and ask themselves if that's still the best path for their individual situation. Is taking out another $50K+ for grad school to give yourself a shot as maybe being accepted into dental school that's going to run you another $400,000+ still worth it?

So if you’ve been in ops situation, why are you suggesting they don’t work hard and fix their application? Didn’t you do the same to get into PA school?

 

[SmileItsLife]

So if you’ve been in ops situation, why are you suggesting they don’t work hard and fix their application? Didn’t you do the same to get into PA school?

I think that they are suggesting that they should work hard in an informal program with self selected classes at someplace local because it is cheaper.

 

[GypsyHummus]

OP, if you have an intrest in dental procedures and dont mind gross stuff, you could look into Podiatry. I know students that have been accepted with a 2.7 GPA to larger schools. Pod programs are also cheaper than dental schools by a long shot, and they make roughly the same as a dentist. They are basically a foot dentist lol.

But I agree with what others are saying. If this were me, I would do a post bacc at a local university taking upper level science classes to see if I could hack the rigorous coursework needed to not only get into a med/dental school, but to pass. In that time of taking post bacc classes, you may find your passion lies somewhere else, and instead of spending 50K in an SMP, you spent 10K doing 5 upper level science classes while working or volunteering. Who knows, you might take a liking to computer science!

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

Pods make considerably less than dentists.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Not much less. General Pods make around 150K and surgical make 200-250K. Outliers make 80K on the low end and 350K+ on the high end.

 

[Ollivander]

Congrats!

Thank you! I appreciate that.

So if you’ve been in ops situation, why are you suggesting they don’t work hard and fix their application? Didn’t you do the same to get into PA school?

I'm not suggesting not working hard in order to fix their application. I'm suggesting not entering into a SMP that's going to require OP taking 15-18 credits per semester that will be on par with medical school or dental school level courses. Unlike med or dental students, you are required to maintain a 3.8+ GPA if you want to be accepted into dental school. This is all while paying somewhere in the range of $50-100K per year for the SMP. That's quite the financial and academic risk versus taking cherry picked courses at a local state university or community college.

There are also other career paths other than dentistry that can provide some of the same aspects as that of dentistry for those that feel it's too large of an academic and financial hurdle to overcome. Especially those without an in-state dental school. The idea of becoming a dentist may be your dream, but it's not many people's dream to figure out how they're going to pay back half a million dollars in debt. I wish more people considered that before applying to places like NYU and MWU.

I think that they are suggesting that they should work hard in an informal program with self selected classes at someplace local because it is cheaper.

Exactly. Thank you.

 

[Ollivander]

Not much less. General Pods make around 150K and surgical make 200-250K. Outliers make 80K on the low end and 350K+ on the high end.

Private practice owners can make that as a podiatrist. Employees do not. Also it takes 4 years of podiatry school, 3 years of residency, and a year of fellowship for podiatry. That time commitment is on par with primary care medicine. You're better off trying multiple times at MD or DO first before resorting to podiatry in my personal opinion. There are some hidden gem non-competitive specialties in medicine right now to be honest. The owner of the pain management practice I work for is probably netting between $3-4 million per year, and PM&R is not a competitive specialty. Obviously this is an outlier, but for business owners there's a lot more opportunity in medicine still even in the non-competitive specialties.

 

[Ollivander]

Pods make considerably less than dentists.

I think it's easy to snub your nose at $100-150K as an undergrad, but that's a lot of money. A podiatrist with no debt making $100-150K is not even comparable to making $200K as a dentist but paying off a half million dollar loan. You'll be paying that off for 10-20 years despite the outliers on this forum that knock it out in 4-5. No two individual situations are equal.

 

[GypsyHummus]

A DPM doesnt need a fellowship.

Agreed about trying multiple times to get into MD/DO school, but for some people, Podiatry is the only door open. Ive met people who decided on DPM vs DO for the surgery aspect, for what it is worth. I never heard of someone giving up a MD acceptance for a DPM one.

Also, OP might want to look into OD schools. Optometry is only 4 years and while they make a lot less than dentists or podiatrists, their lifestyle is much better for 100-120K/year.

Private practice owners can make that as a podiatrist. Employees do not. Also it takes 4 years of podiatry school, 3 years of residency, and a year of fellowship for podiatry. That time commitment is on par with primary care medicine. You're better off trying multiple times at MD or DO first before resorting to podiatry in my personal opinion. There are some hidden gem non-competitive specialties in medicine right now to be honest. The owner of the pain management practice I work for is probably netting between $3-4 million per year, and PM&R is not a competitive specialty. Obviously this is an outlier, but for business owners there's a lot more opportunity in medicine still even in the non-competitive specialties.

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

I think it's easy to snub your nose at $100-150K as an undergrad, but that's a lot of money. A podiatrist with no debt making $100-150K is not even comparable to making $200K as a dentist but paying off a half million dollar loan. You'll be paying that off for 10-20 years despite the outliers on this forum that knock it out in 4-5. No two individual situations are equal.

I’m not stubbing my nose at their income and I had no malice when I wrote that. According to BLS data (which is not correct) dentists make at least 30k more per year. To make good money as a pod you need to go through a fellowship or have godlike production. They do have considerably less debt than dentists do which can accelerate practice ownership.

 

[GypsyHummus]

The bls statistics also include Pod resident salaries of around 50k/year brining down the average. Around 15% of all pods practicing are residents. Dentists usually don’t have a residency, which is why their numbers are higher.

And yeah, tuition is much lower. One of the better schools, DMU, has tuition at around 35k/year. If you are frugal, you can get out of school with a tick under 200k for everything.

I’m not stubbing my nose at their income and I had no malice when I wrote that. According to BLS data (which is not correct) dentists make at least 30k more per year. To make good money as a pod you need to go through a fellowship or have godlike production. They do have considerably less debt than dentists do which can accelerate practice ownership.

 

[Blueshirts]

The bls statistics also include Pod resident salaries of around 50k/year brining down the average. Around 15% of all pods practicing are residents. Dentists usually don’t have a residency, which is why their numbers are higher.

And yeah, tuition is much lower. One of the better schools, DMU, has tuition at around 35k/year. If you are frugal, you can get out of school with a tick under 200k for everything.

I'm enjoying reading all of your guys' analysis, this is the most informative thing I have seen here in probably a year lol.