Low GPA and high MCAT

[Newlearner2017]

I am resident of OH and I am planning to apply to all OH AMCAS/DO schools for 2023 application cycle. I have the following stats:

1. GPA 3.04 undergraduate in Neuroscience from JHU
2. MCAT 515
3. SMP 3.29
4. strong EC

I applied to MD and DO schools last year and received 2 interviews from OH MD schools but no offer. I am currently working with a school of medicine doing Head Impact Trauma research. I am taking some master level courses.



I appreciate any suggestions to improve my application and chances.

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[MyOdyssey]

Apply more broadly including outside OH.

Do you have time to improve your GPA via a DIY postbacc? The master level courses can’t be used to improve your undergrad GPA.

How many clinical and nonclinical hours do you have?

 

[Newlearner2017]

Apply more broadly including outside OH.

Do you have time to improve your GPA via a DIY postbacc? The master level courses can’t be used to improve your undergrad GPA.

How many clinical and nonclinical hours do you have?

Thanks for your prompt response! Yes, I do have time to improve GPA. How do I go about DIY Postbacc? I believe my SMP GPA (32 credits) require improvement as well. I took my MCAT in Jan 2019, so it may expire after next application cycle (next year).

I have over 200 Clinical hours and about 400 hours of other service

 

[Mr.Smile12]

You already applied and got two interviews... did you already submit a WAMC template before this cycle started (if so, where's your school list and feedback from your tempalte)? How long ago did these interviews take place, and what is your current post-interview status?

 

[Faha]

The GPA-MCAT grid shows you have a 1/3 chance for a MD acceptance. Your best chances for a MD acceptance are your Ohio schools. Apply broadly to DO schools and I suggest these:
OU-HCOM
LECOM (all schools)
WVSOM
UP-KYCOM
MU-COM
DMU-COM
KCU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
TUNCOM
AZCOM
UIWSOM
WCU-COM
ACOM
PCOM (all schools)
Touro-NY
NYITCOM

 

[MyOdyssey]

Thanks for your prompt response! Yes, I do have time to improve GPA. How do I go about DIY Postbacc? I believe my SMP GPA (32 credits) require improvement as well. I took my MCAT in Jan 2019, so it may expire after next application cycle (next year).

I have over 200 Clinical hours and about 400 hours of other service

There are many universities that offer postbacc programs that you can enroll in full time. These usually have a set curriculum. You can read about those here:

Postbaccalaureate Programs

Discuss Postbaccalaureate Premedical Programs.

forums.studentdoctor.net

DIY (“Do It Yourself”) programs just means you enroll in an university as a non degree seeking student and take classes - probably mainly or entirely natural science classes. You’ll receive credits and grades that will be used along with your prior undergrad classes to compute a new undergraduate GPA.

It’d be unusual to enroll in a second SMP program. I’ve not heard of doing that. You could improve your graduate GPA by taking more graduate classes. Not sure how impactful that would be.

 

[candbgirl]

You should focus on DO schools. Your chance for redemption (and the back door into MD school) was the SMP. And you didn’t do well enough.(I told you this in 2020.) So you applied last cycle and have reapplied this cycle? What did you do to enhance your application from last cycle to this cycle? Where did you apply this cycle? Most of the replies in 2020 suggested you focus on DO schools. Did you apply mostly DO? I really thought you’d do okay with DO schools. How are your ECs?

 

[Newlearner2017]

You already applied and got two interviews... did you already submit a WAMC template before this cycle started (if so, where's your school list and feedback from your tempalte)? How long ago did these interviews take place, and what is your current post-interview status?

I applied last year (not applying this application cycle).

 

[Newlearner2017]

There are many universities that offer postbacc programs that you can enroll in full time. These usually have a set curriculum. You can read about those here:

Postbaccalaureate Programs

Discuss Postbaccalaureate Premedical Programs.

forums.studentdoctor.net

DIY (“Do It Yourself”) programs just means you enroll in an university as a non degree seeking student and take classes - probably mainly or entirely natural science classes. You’ll receive credits and grades that will be used along with your prior undergrad classes to compute a new undergraduate GPA.

It’d be unusual to enroll in a second SMP program. I’ve not heard of doing that. You could improve your graduate GPA by taking more graduate classes. Not sure how impactful that would be.

Since I already did a formal SMP, I thought it may be better for me to take graduate science courses on part time basis (working full-time). If I do DIY SMP (undergraduate) courses, would it raise a concern why I am doing undergraduate courses after doing masters (SMP)? I understand GPA is calculated together for undergraduate and graduate courses. Is this correct? Is there a cut off based on undergraduate GPA or overall GPA?

 

[Newlearner2017]

You should focus on DO schools. Your chance for redemption (and the back door into MD school) was the SMP. And you didn’t do well enough.(I told you this in 2020.) So you applied last cycle and have reapplied this cycle? What did you do to enhance your application from last cycle to this cycle? Where did you apply this cycle? Most of the replies in 2020 suggested you focus on DO schools. Did you apply mostly DO? I really thought you’d do okay with DO schools. How are your ECs?

In 2020 (Application for 2021), I applied to 30 MD and 10 Do schools. I am not applying this year but planning to apply next year. Unfortunately, I didn't hear from any DO schools.

I am trying to improve my GPA and planning to publish through the work I am doing. I don't know if this is enough to improve my application. What do you think? I have strong Clinical, Research and other experience serving underserved community through Mindfulness organization I founded.

 

[MyOdyssey]

In 2020 (Application for 2021), I applied to 30 MD and 10 Do schools. I am not applying this year but planning to apply next year. Unfortunately, I didn't hear from any DO schools.

I am trying to improve my GPA and planning to publish through the work I am doing. I don't know if this is enough to improve my application. What do you think? I have strong Clinical, Research and other experience serving underserved community through Mindfulness organization I founded.

Can you post your previous school and state of residence?

 

[candbgirl]

In 2020 (Application for 2021), I applied to 30 MD and 10 Do schools. I am not applying this year but planning to apply next year. Unfortunately, I didn't hear from any DO schools.

I am trying to improve my GPA and planning to publish through the work I am doing. I don't know if this is enough to improve my application. What do you think? I have strong Clinical, Research and other experience serving underserved community through Mindfulness organization I founded.

It’s hard to say. A few posts up @Mr.Smile12 asked if you have done a WAMC template . Perhaps if you did do that it would help us, help you. Sometimes people really think they have strong ECs and that all areas are covered when in fact they aren’t. We are always the worst judges of our own accomplishments. Perhaps, if you have time, fill in the template.

*~*~*~*IMPORTANT: How to Format Your WAMC Thread for Optimal Results and More!!*~*~*~*

Hello, and welcome to the What Are My Chances (WAMC) forum. The purpose of this forum is to Post threads about your chances of acceptance to MD and/or DO schools Have your school list critiqued and modified by other members of SDN Determine how to strengthen your current application General...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[Newlearner2017]

You already applied and got two interviews... did you already submit a WAMC template before this cycle started (if so, where's your school list and feedback from your tempalte)? How long ago did these interviews take place, and what is your current post-interview status?

I did not use WAMC template. I used a medical school consulting company to short list the MD and DO schools. The 2 interviews took place about a year ago (Fall 2020), both schools were OH state MD schools, (OH resident).

 

[Newlearner2017]

The GPA-MCAT grid shows you have a 1/3 chance for a MD acceptance. Your best chances for a MD acceptance are your Ohio schools. Apply broadly to DO schools and I suggest these:
OU-HCOM
LECOM (all schools)
WVSOM
UP-KYCOM
MU-COM
DMU-COM
KCU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
TUNCOM
AZCOM
UIWSOM
WCU-COM
ACOM
PCOM (all schools)
Touro-NY
NYITCOM

Thank you very much! This is very helpful.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I did not use WAMC template. I used a medical school consulting company to short list the MD and DO schools. The 2 interviews took place about a year ago (Fall 2020), both schools were OH state MD schools, (OH resident).

If you share your previous list, you can get additional feedback if you want.

 

[Newlearner2017]

It’s hard to say. A few posts up @Mr.Smile12 asked if you have done a WAMC template . Perhaps if you did do that it would help us, help you. Sometimes people really think they have strong ECs and that all areas are covered when in fact they aren’t. We are always the worst judges of our own accomplishments. Perhaps, if you have time, fill in the template.

*~*~*~*IMPORTANT: How to Format Your WAMC Thread for Optimal Results and More!!*~*~*~*

Hello, and welcome to the What Are My Chances (WAMC) forum. The purpose of this forum is to Post threads about your chances of acceptance to MD and/or DO schools Have your school list critiqued and modified by other members of SDN Determine how to strengthen your current application General...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Is there a link for WAMC template?

 

[MyOdyssey]

Is there a link for WAMC template?

From Mr.Smile12’s post:

*~*~*~*IMPORTANT: How to Format Your WAMC Thread for Optimal Results and More!!*~*~*~*

Hello, and welcome to the What Are My Chances (WAMC) forum. The purpose of this forum is to Post threads about your chances of acceptance to MD and/or DO schools Have your school list critiqued and modified by other members of SDN Determine how to strengthen your current application General...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[Newlearner2017]

I was reviewing my 2021 AMCAS, while my overall GPA is 3.02, My BCMP GPA is 2.918 (I calculated below). I believe my BCMP GPA explains why I didn't hear from most of the schools including DO. I believe I need more time to significantly improve my application (perhaps 2024 Application Cycle), especially BCMP GPA. This would mean, I will have to retake MCAT as well.

I will appreciate any/all suggestions.

BCMP:

Undergraduate 2.78 (79 Hours)
SMP 3.29 (31 hours)

BCMP GPA: 2.918 (321/110)

Total Hours: 110 (79+31)
Accumulated (2.78 *79) + (3.29 *31) = 321

 

[candbgirl]

Is there a link for WAMC template?

From my post

*~*~*~*IMPORTANT: How to Format Your WAMC Thread for Optimal Results and More!!*~*~*~*

Hello, and welcome to the What Are My Chances (WAMC) forum. The purpose of this forum is to Post threads about your chances of acceptance to MD and/or DO schools Have your school list critiqued and modified by other members of SDN Determine how to strengthen your current application General...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[MyOdyssey]

I was reviewing my 2021 AMCAS, while my overall GPA is 3.02, My BCMP GPA is 2.918 (I calculated below). I believe my BCMP GPA explains why I didn't hear from most of the schools including DO. I believe I need more time to significantly improve my application (perhaps 2024 Application Cycle), especially BCMP GPA. This would mean, I will have to retake MCAT as well.

I will appreciate any/all suggestions.

BCMP:

Undergraduate 2.78 (79 Hours)
SMP 3.29 (31 hours)

BCMP GPA: 2.918 (321/110)

Total Hours: 110 (79+31)
Accumulated (2.78 *79) + (3.29 *31) = 321

Consider a DIY or formal postbacc but make sure you excel. Your overall GPA needs to be at least a 3.0.

 

[candbgirl]

I was reviewing my 2021 AMCAS, while my overall GPA is 3.02, My BCMP GPA is 2.918 (I calculated below). I believe my BCMP GPA explains why I didn't hear from most of the schools including DO. I believe I need more time to significantly improve my application (perhaps 2024 Application Cycle), especially BCMP GPA. This would mean, I will have to retake MCAT as well.

I will appreciate any/all suggestions.

BCMP:

Undergraduate 2.78 (79 Hours)
SMP 3.29 (31 hours)

BCMP GPA: 2.918 (321/110)

Total Hours: 110 (79+31)
Accumulated (2.78 *79) + (3.29 *31) = 321

Your uGPA is 2.78. How did you get it to 2.918? I think you combined your SGPA with your SMP. But is that what AMCAS does? The DO version of AMCAS might because they use Master Degree grades in figuring your total GPA. No matter what you do, with that many hours accumulated , your GPAs aren’t going to change much, if at all. You have to figure out how to prove to ADCOMS that you are up to the rigors of med school. Your SMP was that opportunity.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I was reviewing my 2021 AMCAS, while my overall GPA is 3.02, My BCMP GPA is 2.918 (I calculated below). I believe my BCMP GPA explains why I didn't hear from most of the schools including DO. I believe I need more time to significantly improve my application (perhaps 2024 Application Cycle), especially BCMP GPA. This would mean, I will have to retake MCAT as well.

I will appreciate any/all suggestions.

BCMP:

Undergraduate 2.78 (79 Hours)
SMP 3.29 (31 hours)

BCMP GPA: 2.918 (321/110)

Total Hours: 110 (79+31)
Accumulated (2.78 *79) + (3.29 *31) = 321

79 hours of undergrad credits isn’t that many. I completed over 100 credit hours in 4 years of undergrad.

You can still raise your undergrad GPA. A 2 year formal postbacc would be around 64 hours. Could you average close to a 4.0 and afford to spend 2 more years pursuing it?

Did you receive any C- or lower in your BCPM courses? At a minimum consider retaking those.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Your uGPA is 2.78. How did you get it to 2.918? I think you combined your SGPA with your SMP. But is that what AMCAS does? The DO version of AMCAS might because they use Master Degree grades in figuring your total GPA. No matter what you do, with that many hours accumulated , your GPAs aren’t going to change much, if at all. You have to figure out how to prove to ADCOMS that you are up to the rigors of med school. Your SMP was that opportunity.

I agree with @candbgirl since the OP listed an SMP GPA of 3.2 . Where did you take your SMP, and did this occur before you applied and got your interviews previously? What help did the program directors at your SMP give you when it came to your application this time?

 

[Newlearner2017]

79 hours of undergrad credits isn’t that many. I completed over 100 credit hours in 4 years of undergrad.

You can still raise your undergrad GPA. A 2 year formal postbacc would be around 64 hours. Could you average close to a 4.0 and afford to spend 2 more years pursuing it?

Did you receive any C- or lower in your BCPM courses? At a minimum consider retaking those.

​

I agree with @candbgirl since the OP listed an SMP GPA of 3.2 . Where did you take your SMP, and did this occur before you applied and got your interviews previously? What help did the program directors at your SMP give you when it came to your application this time?

Sorry for late response. I calculated combined BCMP GPA (79 uGPA and 31 Graduate). I took SMP at University of Cincinnati in 2020, I applied in July 2020 after completing my SMP in May 2020.

As I am working full time, I am planning to complete 2 year Graduate program on a part time basis (32 Graduate Science credits). The goal is to improve my application, especially GPA while having a backup plan.

Curriculum | Graduate Medical Sciences

www.bumc.bu.edu

 

[Newlearner2017]

Can you post your previous school and state of residence?

I graduated from JHU in May 2019 and from University of Cincinnati SMP in May 2020 (was OH resident when I applied in 2020). I am currently in Boston. Both of schools have great programs.

 

[Newlearner2017]

Thank you all, your guidance been very helpful!

I need one more clarification, I appreciate if someone can respond to the following questions:

I understand GPA is calculated together for undergraduate and graduate courses. Is this correct? Is there a cut off based on undergraduate GPA or overall GPA?

 

[MyOdyssey]

Thank you all, your guidance been very helpful!

I need one more clarification, I appreciate if someone can respond to the following questions:

I understand GPA is calculated together for undergraduate and graduate courses. Is this correct? Is there a cut off based on undergraduate GPA or overall GPA?

Undergrad and grad GPAs are computed separately.

 

[Newlearner2017]

Undergrad and grad GPAs are computed separately.

I came across the following after I posted the above:

https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2...22-medical-student-selection-guide-070921.pdf

 

[Newlearner2017]

I came across the following after I posted the above:

https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2...22-medical-student-selection-guide-070921.pdf

My GPA as of 2021 Application (calculated) is as follows. What are my chances if I complete 32 graduate credits and do well? Any suggestions?

GPA: cumulative biology, chemistry, physics, and math: 2.918

GPA: cumulative total: 3.022

GPA: cumulative total from postbaccalaureate premedical program: 3.29

 

[MyOdyssey]

My GPA as of 2021 Application (calculated) is as follows. What are my chances if I complete 32 graduate credits and do well? Any suggestions?

GPA: cumulative biology, chemistry, physics, and math: 2.918

GPA: cumulative total: 3.022

GPA: cumulative total from postbaccalaureate premedical program: 3.29

Your SMP GPA is part of your graduate GPA not your undergrad GPA.

Medical schools care more about your undergrad GPA which you can raise only with postbacc undergrad courses.

 

[Goro]

I am resident of OH and I am planning to apply to all OH AMCAS/DO schools for 2023 application cycle. I have the following stats:

1. GPA 3.04 undergraduate in Neuroscience from JHU
2. MCAT 515
3. SMP 3.29
4. strong EC

I applied to MD and DO schools last year and received 2 interviews from OH MD schools but no offer. I am currently working with a school of medicine doing Head Impact Trauma research. I am taking some master level courses.



I appreciate any suggestions to improve my application and chances.

Your weak performance in the SMP will be a deal breaker for MD schools.

Apply broadly to DO schools. Skip the for-profits, ARCOM, NOVA, and LUCOM

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I graduated from JHU in May 2019 and from University of Cincinnati SMP in May 2020 (was OH resident when I applied in 2020). I am currently in Boston. Both of schools have great programs.

I still don't have an answer for "What help did the program directors at your SMP give you when it came to your application this time?" Can you tell us what your director or faculty said they would do to support your application?

 

[candbgirl]

Why are you so intent on taking more graduate courses? The GRAD GPA isn’t going to help you at all for MD schools. You GRAD GPA is not factored into your undergrad GPA for MD so no matter what you do you probably won’t meet the minimum GPAs to even get through the auto screen at MD school unless you stop focusing on grad courses and do a DIY post bacc. ( I understand if you are planning to take a full on MS program as a backup for what happens after you aren’t successful in another application cycle because not everyone who applies gets into medical school. Last cycle only 36% were accepted.)

I just reread this whole thread. I have some questions.

1) You applied last time after you completed the SMP. Is that correct?

2)How did your SMP program help you during that cycle? Have you contacted the program director or anyone at the program to see what they think went wrong and how you can fix those issues before you reapply?

3) What is a DIY SMP? I’ve never heard of that being a thing. (Where did you go for your SMP?) You already have a SMP, right? Why would you do a DIY SMP?

4) Several people have asked you for the list of schools you applied to during your first cycle. I know you are busy but so is everyone on here . You want our help but you won’t help us help you.

5) you’ve asked a few times about AMCAS combining your uGPA and gGPA . Each time you are told they don’t do that. And they don’t. So I’m not sure why you posted this:

I came across the following after I posted the above:

https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2...22-medical-student-selection-guide-070921.pdf

6) I know you are frustrated. The whole process is frustrating but we can’t change the outcome. We can only help you understand the process and give the best advice we can.

Please think about answering the questions people have asked and we might be able to give clearer answers.
But whatever you do Good Luck as you move forward.