Low GPA, but want to be a doc so bad

[jalapeno565]

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Alright guys so I need some help. I want to get into med school more than anything in the world, but I just don't have the numbers. I have a ton of research and a ton of clinical along with a bunch of other extracurriculars. I did a double major in Bio and Philosophy, so I'm pretty well rounded. I took the MCATs once and got a 20R. I recently took the MCATs again in August and am expecting about a 25, which is what I was scoring on practice tests, which means I'll probably have to take it again. My overall GPA is a 2.6, with my science gpa being at barely a 2.0. I'm interested in doing a post-bac because I want to prove that I can do well in the science courses, and somehow, someway get into med school. I had some personal tragedy and heavy course/work loads during college so that was part of the reason my grades are so low. Anyway, I'm from California and was looking into SFSU's post-bac program. Anyone have any input on it? I'm willing to go anywhere in the US if it'll help me get into med school, and I know that with such low grades, I may never get into a US school. I don't even mind going to the Carribbean, but my question is, do I have a shot at any post-bac programs and more importantly, will I have a shot at any med school? Any input is appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[adpitan]

I'm new to all of this as well but if you want it badly you should definitely go for it. The worst that will happen is they will say no, right? I know that's bad BUT that just means you get to try again and yes I did say "get to". Get to is a positive way of looking at things. You will have to work super hard but if you want it badly that will show through and if you do the post bac program that will definitely help. Go to SFSU, I will be going in Fall of 05, Graciegreen may be going as well and Eskramer and Scota are already there. DOn't give up or be discouraged because your numbers are low. Things happen in our life for a reason, so go apply. Be positive, if you truly want this it will happen for you, you will just have to work hard but we all do so don't think you are the only one who has to work hard for it. So, remember, be positive you get to to a post-bac program and you never know it maybe the best thing for you. You are sure to make some great contacts that had you never done the post bac program you would probably not have come in to contact with, right?

Be like Nike, just do it! 😀 Good luck and remember to have fun while you're doing it.

 

[DeepCowboy]

Since formal post-baccs are selective, you may have to do an informal one where you pretty much do it yourself. See the post-bacc FAQ. You may have to go to a state university, enroll as a non-degree seeking student, and just retake all the pre-reqs where you didn't have an A. It is best not to take the courses more than twice because that looks bad.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Greetings. I am in the same boat as yourself and I will be taking some classes to boost my GPA (not like that will help a WHOLE lot) but take the initiative to get to know the schools you want to get into and apply. Some of the admissions counselors can help steer you in the right direction on what they are looking for! Best of luck and keep looking on these forums. I have gotten some great tips!

🙂

 

[ockhamsRzr]

Greetings. I am in the same boat as yourself and I will be taking some classes to boost my GPA (not like that will help a WHOLE lot) but take the initiative to get to know the schools you want to get into and apply. Some of the admissions counselors can help steer you in the right direction on what they are looking for! Best of luck and keep looking on these forums. I have gotten some great tips!

🙂

Hey MSH,

How did your interview with the admissions folks go? What did you learn that you can share? Were they receptive?

Thanks and good luck,

-Ock

 

[mshheaddoc]

Hey MSH,

How did your interview with the admissions folks go? What did you learn that you can share? Were they receptive?

Thanks and good luck,

-Ock

🙂 Next week I go! I will keep you guys updated on what they say. I'm going to set something up with an MD school as well as the DO school. If anyone has any good questions, let me know and I'll ask them!

 

[sidewalkman]

You're probably SOL for a formal post-bacc like Penn SSP. Are you willing to go DO? If you are, start retaking some classes, because DO schools replace your grades if you retake a class and do better.

 

[dankev]

Jalapeno- I agree with the other posters that you will probably need to do an informal post bacc, but that is fine. That's what I did.

Before you go back though, you need to be very honest with yourself about why you have such poor grades. Where you working hard, or did you goof off too much? If you were really working hard before, what makes you think you can do better now? If you were just goofing off, can you really study hard now? I don't say that to be harsh. You should really think about it.

Adcoms will only eat up so much of the personal tragedy. Probably only one quarter's worth; not 4 years. As far as heavy courseloads, that's what med school is, so don't use that as an excuse.

If you can improve your MCAT, retake classes, and take more science classes (mostly all As), you probably have a decent shot at a DO school. If your heart is set on MD, don't bother doing any retakes, but know the odds are stacked way against you. The Carribbean might be your best bet.

Best of luck in the process.

 

[911Med]

I was in the same sinking ship - difference being I did research for 5 years then decided to go back, so that helps me out a little bit. I am in a formal post-bac now that will give me a MS degree. Just be prepared to study your butt off and know that if you are willing to work at it, you can ALWAYS fix that horrible transcript and eventually phenagle your way into a US MD school eventually. Time, effort, money, focus are all key factors.
Get into a post-bac anywhere, start getting ready for the MCAT - a 25-26 won't work - you are going to need 30+ minimum (33 more likely) - this will come if you are diligent in your post-bac.
I have to return to studying biochem.
Keep you head up and most importantly...
rock on.

 

[hypersting]

If you want it bad enough, make it happen.

 

[hotlikebutter]

about going to med school outside the country:

i would really weigh your options before going to a caribbean school. not only are they really expensive, their pass rates for the USMLE are scary. Now some schools may be better and some worse, but you have to think about that fact. Also, a recent book I read by Princeton Review about medical schools and the medical field indicates that the US will experience an excess of physicians by the year 2008. This means, that the field will most likely cut back or completely stop taking foreign medical graduates. This means many of the caribbean schools that cater to US students trying to get back into the states for residency will definitely go out of business and their graduates in limbo.

i would stay with MD and DO schools in the US. You can enhance your chances by doing a post bac that has alliances with med schools. Also, think about doing a Masters degree. Most schools have minimum GPA and MCAT scores, but if you read the fine print, it doesnt apply to students with a Masters or PhD 😱 ! Yes, I was amazed to read this one too.

I just want to say good luck. Dont give up. And once you get in and graduate from med school, dont forget how hard it was, and remember to throw the rope back over 👍 Also, remember that your patients are waiting for you!

 

[HeySha]

Jalapeno-

You stated you're from CA...out of curiosity, where did you attend undergrad? Was it at a UC? This could play a role in getting into a post-bacc there, as I know from experience that the UC system likes to keep its graduates funneling their money through the system. If you did, speak to a counselor about your options for graduate work at the same school. Also, you said you have research experience. If this is with well respected, tenured faculty, see what they can do for you as far as recommending you and such.

Best of luck to you.

 

[jalapeno565]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm looking into Caribbean schools, the "big three" to be exact (Ross, St. George's, AUC), not even sure if I have chance there, but we'll see. It would definitely be the best to get into a US MD/DO school though. I'm also going to apply to the informal post-bac at SF State because it seems that most of the formal post-bacs are quite competitive and my stats, obviously, don't match. If you guys have any extra info, etc, keep it coming and thanks for the encouragement, it's greatly appreciated.

 

[LEELLISAA]

about going to med school outside the country:

i would really weigh your options before going to a caribbean school. not only are they really expensive, their pass rates for the USMLE are scary. Now some schools may be better and some worse, but you have to think about that fact. Also, a recent book I read by Princeton Review about medical schools and the medical field indicates that the US will experience an excess of physicians by the year 2008. This means, that the field will most likely cut back or completely stop taking foreign medical graduates. This means many of the caribbean schools that cater to US students trying to get back into the states for residency will definitely go out of business and their graduates in limbo.

i would stay with MD and DO schools in the US. You can enhance your chances by doing a post bac that has alliances with med schools. Also, think about doing a Masters degree. Most schools have minimum GPA and MCAT scores, but if you read the fine print, it doesnt apply to students with a Masters or PhD 😱 ! Yes, I was amazed to read this one too.

I just want to say good luck. Dont give up. And once you get in and graduate from med school, dont forget how hard it was, and remember to throw the rope back over 👍 Also, remember that your patients are waiting for you!

Hey! HotLikeButter,

Can you highlight some information on the schools that do not require minimum MCAT and GPA for M.Sc or Ph.D holders? I would love to get some help on this.

Thanks a lot

 

[happy20003]

Hey! HotLikeButter,

Can you highlight some information on the schools that do not require minimum MCAT and GPA for M.Sc or Ph.D holders? I would love to get some help on this.

Thanks a lot

i am also interested in this 🙂

 

[mshheaddoc]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm looking into Caribbean schools, the "big three" to be exact (Ross, St. George's, AUC), not even sure if I have chance there, but we'll see. It would definitely be the best to get into a US MD/DO school though. I'm also going to apply to the informal post-bac at SF State because it seems that most of the formal post-bacs are quite competitive and my stats, obviously, don't match. If you guys have any extra info, etc, keep it coming and thanks for the encouragement, it's greatly appreciated.

Don't rule out DO, its the same as MD.

 

[Peace&Health]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm looking into Caribbean schools, the "big three" to be exact (Ross, St. George's, AUC), not even sure if I have chance there, but we'll see. It would definitely be the best to get into a US MD/DO school though. I'm also going to apply to the informal post-bac at SF State because it seems that most of the formal post-bacs are quite competitive and my stats, obviously, don't match. If you guys have any extra info, etc, keep it coming and thanks for the encouragement, it's greatly appreciated.

hi jalepeno,

there is not much of an application for the informal program at SFSU and the advisor, Dr. Rothman, is pretty cool. the great thing is you're among peers in your same situation trying to set a new record. i'm currently applying but i did a year at SFSU and loved it.

you will be much on your own, but Dr. Rothman (the advisor) is there for you. So if you're proactive, you'll be fine. And there are workshops to help make sure you excel, which is nice. Also, there is also a Post-bac student org (you can find it on the sfsu website-"pbso") you can get involved in to meet other post-bacs. YOu will need to apply as a 2nd baccalaureate student or something. I know that they were not accepting for fall semester but will start accepting for spring semester. You will probably need to apply soon if you plan to attend sfsu.

Good-luck. Set a new stellar record! Make sure to take it easy at first because you want to do well in every class.

 

[shawred]

I am just curious. Is there ever a point in which people on this board are willing to be blunt? Low 2 point avg, national avg on MCAT? Has already taken MCAT twice? I understand the process, for I once had to make up for a poor performance in the past. But c'mon people. I will never say it is impossible, because it isn't, but lets face it. People who get into med school with low grades usually have a good-great MCAT. Your typical low end med student has a GPA of 3.0 or higher coupled with an MCAT above 30. Notice I said typical. This person would have to take 10 years of 40 hour semesters with straight A's to get that avg to a 3.0. Moreover, there are not many instances in which someone with a 20 MCAT on the first try raises that score above a 30. I know, it CAN happen, but odds are it won't.

Lets generalize some more. Most students who will have the ability to succeed in med school could goof off in undergrad and easily manage to still pull off a 2.75. I went to the U of Chicago, didn't do crap, and slept my way to a 3.0. A good friend of mine, who is lazier than all hell, failed PE and a few other classes, and still managed to pull a 2.6. Sure there can be circumstances to explain an especially low GPA, but that will only go so far. With a GPA this low, you would have to probably explain 4 years of extraordinary circumstances. I think you can understand my point through all of this sarcasm. Sure you can say, Go get a masters, kick butt, get those MCAT scores up, etc, but there is a time in which you can probably see that the abilities are not there.

My final point is this. How many low end SUCCESSFUL applicants do you know that wouldn't even have their initial file opened by a carribean school? I say it is time to wish the best of luck to the OP and say that you probably don't stand a chance in hell unless you are a prodigy just finding yourself. I have many friends who have wasted alot of money taking courses trying to do something that just isn't their cup of tea; I didn't major in math because I am HORRIBLE in math. I want to be good in math, I would love to learn advanced math, but I can't even remember high school geometry at this point. It is just not my thing. And as you can see, english and writing is not my thing. But you know what? I REALLY want to be a writer. I would like to be like Stephen King. Oh what is that I hear? I should go take some post-bacc courses in English? Give me a break.

 

[mshheaddoc]

I am just curious. Is there ever a point in which people on this board are willing to be blunt? Low 2 point avg, national avg on MCAT? Has already taken MCAT twice? I understand the process, for I once had to make up for a poor performance in the past. But c'mon people. I will never say it is impossible, because it isn't, but lets face it. People who get into med school with low grades usually have a good-great MCAT. Your typical low end med student has a GPA of 3.0 or higher coupled with an MCAT above 30. Notice I said typical. This person would have to take 10 years of 40 hour semesters with straight A's to get that avg to a 3.0. Moreover, there are not many instances in which someone with a 20 MCAT on the first try raises that score above a 30. I know, it CAN happen, but odds are it won't.

Good for you and your realistic outlook 👍 The OP may not have the best chances, but there still is a chance for the right school. For those of us that have dug a hole we appreciate your insight. Blunt or not, and speaking for myself only ... everyone's situation is different. For me I'm non-trad ... applying 5 years out of college. College isn't a life changing experience and not all of us know what we want out of life. I actually know quite a few people that have low GPA's and low MCATs and they are currently in med school. Do I take offense to your outlook? Of course I do! Is it a realistic approach? Of course! But do I let that affect what others thing? Nope. I know what I am capable of and I plan on proving that to the adcoms no matter what. I wake up every day wishing I would have done things differently in college. But then I wouldn't be the person I am today and I do NOT want to change that. Not everyone is a rocket scientist (or a neurosurgeon for that matter) but with hard work and perserverance anything and anyone can prevail.

I wish you the best and also the others like me. Because although we may be in the minority, there are roads to get to our goal and I, for one, plan on exhausting every resource to fulfill my dream. Its not a matter of "IF", its a matter of "WHEN". Yes things don't work out for everyone but there is always room for improvement.

👍

~Mushmeister



PS - My GPA was a 2.3 👍

 

[Ypo.]

I really liked both of those last two posts. Between the two of you-I think the OP has gotten a perfect answer to his question. Jalapeno needs to consider both of your posts before preceding further.

My advice is to retake some of the science classes -if you can- and get a higher grade in them. Attach yourself to an admissions advisor at a DO school...that would be your best option-in my opinion. And not impossible at all-with some hard but not extreme work.

 

[mshheaddoc]

My advice is to retake some of the science classes -if you can- and get a higher grade in them. Attach yourself to an admissions advisor at a DO school...that would be your best option-in my opinion. And not impossible at all-with some hard but not extreme work.

Great advice b/c I am going back for my pre-reqs as soon as I finish my MBA ( 😱 heaven forbid I actually got into an MBA program with that GPA!! 😉 ) and I have appt with admissions advisor from a DO school and I have contacts to the dean at a MD school as well. Do EVERYTHING and anything to get yourself in. Don't just go to one or two schools. Talk to a range of admission counselors b/c every school is different. Get experience ... prove to them you want in. Another key thing, which some overlook, GOOD LOR! They speak VOLUMES!

 

[youngman]

it doesn't matter where you go, it only matters if you have the intelligence. for some of you, you have to realize that you should not make any more excuses for bad grades.

we have plenty of those people in carib. schools. they think that they are big shots, that is why they want to be doctors. but after a semester, i see plenty of them packing, and going home for good.

I'm willing to go anywhere in the US if it'll help me get into med school, and I know that with such low grades, I may never get into a US school. I don't even mind going to the Carribbean, but my question is, do I have a shot at any post-bac programs and more importantly, will I have a shot at any med school? Any input is appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[benelswick]

Youngman! Shut your pie-hole!--Ben

 

[HussainGQ]

While I agree that your GPA cannot go up very much after you have accumulated a certain number of hours. however, keep in mind that med school adcoms also look at trends in your semesters as well. Basically they want to see that you have the ability to work at a high level. So, if the OP can put together a string of 2 or 3 semesters where he/she can hit atleast 3.7-3.8, then that might impress an adcom........