Lowest GPA to Get In

[502623]

I'm sure that this question has been asked numerous times before and so I apologize, but I'm more curious about it from the standpoint of what the average GPA is of applicants who get accepted to medical school. What I've gleaned is that the average GPA for getting in is about at a 3.7, and this is consistent when I talked to an admissions representative for IUSM last Friday. If we say the average is a 3.7, would this mean that there are still a fair number of applicants who get in with, oh, say 3.5s? Perhaps my thinking is a bit off on this one, I'm not sure.

Also, a side question. If an applicant has a GPA at 3.9 or above with a solid MCAT score as well as the standard extras (clubs, shadowing, volunteering, etc.) is there really any need to worry about getting into at least a couple of medical schools? I don't feel like there would be any need to worry in a situation like that, but perhaps I'd be surprised!

Thank you all for any input in this discussion!

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[Eiot]

3.0 is the universally accepted cut-off as far as I know. An applicant with a 3.9 GPA/solid MCAT/standard ECs should remain stress free if their only goal is to be accepted to a few medical schools.

 

[502623]

A 3.0? Wow, this helps me to stress a little less!

 

[yehhhboiii]

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/2012factstable24.pdf

 

[sinombre]

A 3.0? Wow, this helps me to stress a little less!

A 3.0 is an arbitrary cutoff. Very few people get in with GPAs that low. Check out the graph that yehhhboiii posted.

 

[darklabel]

A 3.0 is an arbitrary cutoff. Very few people get in with GPAs that low. Check out the graph that yehhhboiii posted.

Agreed, theres people that get in below a 3.0 and a subpar mcat (Something like 4 - 5 people?)

So maybe you can hope to be one of those 4 - 5 out of 50,000 applicants (plus I'm sure there's much more to these applicants then just numbers).

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

Is that table M.D. only? I like how there are 43 people with below 2.0 GPA and Less than 14 total MCAT score who still applied.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

The MSAR gives numbers for the bottom 10% and top 90% GPAs at each school. For typical schools with no strong instate preference the bottom 10% figure is around 3.3-3.5. Anything lower and you can be certain that the students who still got in had exceptionally great things on their application that outweighed their low GPA.

 

[darklabel]

Is that table M.D. only? I like how there are 43 people with below 2.0 GPA and Less than 14 total MCAT score who still applied.

Yes, its only MD

 

[502623]

Agreed, theres people that get in below a 3.0 and a subpar mcat (Something like 4 - 5 people?)

So maybe you can hope to be one of those 4 - 5 out of 50,000 applicants (plus I'm sure there's much more to these applicants then just numbers).

Oh no of course not! It would be highly foolish (IMO) to think I'd be getting in with a 3.0. I was just expressing my surprise that there are individuals who get in with that. Of course I'll be shooting for as high as possible of a GPA and start to worry if it drops below a 3.7.

 

[mimelim]

I was a 3.4 and interviewed wherever I applied. I know of two people with sub 3.0 GPAs that matriculated. I would say that anyone with a pulse and either a good MCAT or a GPA CAN get into medical school, but you are looking at a very steep hill if you are lacking in either.

 

[Lollygag]

Is that table M.D. only? I like how there are 43 people with below 2.0 GPA and Less than 14 total MCAT score who still applied.

It is more likely that those people had parents/really close family friends that is Dean of admissions. N = 1 but I have a close guy friend who is one of them lol

 

[502623]

I was a 3.4 and interviewed wherever I applied. I know of two people with sub 3.0 GPAs that matriculated. I would say that anyone with a pulse and either a good MCAT or a GPA CAN get into medical school, but you are looking at a very steep hill if you are lacking in either.

This is reassuring, thanks!

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

I was a 3.4 and interviewed wherever I applied. I know of two people with sub 3.0 GPAs that matriculated. I would say that anyone with a pulse and either a good MCAT or a GPA CAN get into medical school, but you are looking at a very steep hill if you are lacking in either.

3.4 in what from where? That likely makes a big difference. MIT engineering is a different beast than biology degree from a state university.

 

[mimelim]

This is reassuring, thanks!

You also have to realize that the kind of people that get in with wacky stats tend to be seen as attempts to find the diamond in the rough. Those two students had 40+ MCATs and ECs that would make most SDNers' eyes bleed. There is logic behind medical student admissions. If you have something that schools want, you will get accepted somewhere if you apply broad enough. If you don't bring much to the table, you better have good scores across the board to carry you.

3.4 in what from where? That likely makes a big difference. MIT engineering is a different beast than biology degree from a state university.

Physics at Wash U. It didn't hurt to be able to say, ya I got a B in orgo, but I was taking 4 other classes at the time of which 3 were upper division physics classes and averaged 19+ credits a semester. But, you often don't get a chance to explain unless it is really really obvious on your transcript.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

You also have to realize that the kind of people that get in with wacky stats tend to be seen as attempts to find the diamond in the rough. Those two students had 40+ MCATs and ECs that would make most SDNers' eyes bleed. There is logic behind medical student admissions. If you have something that schools want, you will get accepted somewhere if you apply broad enough. If you don't bring much to the table, you better have good scores across the board to carry you.

what was the MCAT that went with the 3.4?

 

[mimelim]

what was the MCAT that went with the 3.4?

High enough that HMS, Hopkins, Yale, Wash U etc. were willing to send an interview invite

 

[502623]

You also have to realize that the kind of people that get in with wacky stats tend to be seen as attempts to find the diamond in the rough. Those two students had 40+ MCATs and ECs that would make most SDNers' eyes bleed. There is logic behind medical student admissions. If you have something that schools want, you will get accepted somewhere if you apply broad enough. If you don't bring much to the table, you better have good scores across the board to carry you.

Lol, yes, I didn't consider that. Kind of off topic, but would you happen to know if doing undergraduate research is considered something mildly noteworthy, i.e. bringing something to the table, or is this something pretty common among med school applicants nowadays so as it isn't that special (just above shadowing, volunteering, etc.)?

 

[mimelim]

Lol, yes, I didn't consider that. Kind of off topic, but would you happen to know if doing undergraduate research is considered something mildly noteworthy, i.e. bringing something to the table, or is this something pretty common among med school applicants nowadays so as it isn't that special (just above shadowing, volunteering, etc.)?

Many if not most pre-med applicants try to do some form of research. Simply joining a lab and 'doing' research isn't particularly noteworthy. Now, if you start doing productive work in a lab, publishing, presenting at conferences and impress enough people to write strong (not good, but STRONG) letters of rec that is a different story. Remember, you are competing against thousands of applicants. If you have sub-par scores, you have to be doing something or have something that very few others have or be exceptionally good at something. It generally is something that was a multi-year, dozens of hours a week endeavor, not something taken lightly.

For example, the two students that I mentioned, one spoke 8 different languages and worked as consultant to a foreign diplomat 40+ hours a week while taking a full course load, studying for the MCAT etc. The other was like me, we were both research monkeys, except while I had several publications, first author, Nature paper etc, he had multiple big time first author papers.

 

[502623]

Many if not most pre-med applicants try to do some form of research. Simply joining a lab and 'doing' research isn't particularly noteworthy. Now, if you start doing productive work in a lab, publishing, presenting at conferences and impress enough people to write strong (not good, but STRONG) letters of rec that is a different story. Remember, you are competing against thousands of applicants. If you have sub-par scores, you have to be doing something or have something that very few others have or be exceptionally good at something. It generally is something that was a multi-year, dozens of hours a week endeavor, not something taken lightly.

For example, the two students that I mentioned, one spoke 8 different languages and worked as consultant to a foreign diplomat 40+ hours a week while taking a full course load, studying for the MCAT etc. The other was like me, we were both research monkeys, except while I had several publications, first author, Nature paper etc, he had multiple big time first author papers.

If an applicant were to just join a lab and do research with no publications but still have strong scores (3.8 GPA, 32 MCAT) on top of other standard ECs, would they have a completely fair shot of getting in would you think?

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/2012factstable24.pdf

The data on this chart is very helpful. But I am wondering if it is possible to further break these percentages down according to the number of schools to which applicants applied. For example, what is the acceptance rate percentage for people with a 3.7 GPA and a 32 MCAT who applied to 10-15 schools versus those who only applied to 10 schools or less?

Is it possible to get this level of detail of data?

 

[Tadaaa]

A 3.0 is an arbitrary cutoff. Very few people get in with GPAs that low. Check out the graph that yehhhboiii posted.

Meeeeee (just made the cut for cGPA did not for sGPA)!

 

[Tadaaa]

Many if not most pre-med applicants try to do some form of research. Simply joining a lab and 'doing' research isn't particularly noteworthy. Now, if you start doing productive work in a lab, publishing, presenting at conferences and impress enough people to write strong (not good, but STRONG) letters of rec that is a different story. Remember, you are competing against thousands of applicants. If you have sub-par scores, you have to be doing something or have something that very few others have or be exceptionally good at something. It generally is something that was a multi-year, dozens of hours a week endeavor, not something taken lightly.

For example, the two students that I mentioned, one spoke 8 different languages and worked as consultant to a foreign diplomat 40+ hours a week while taking a full course load, studying for the MCAT etc. The other was like me, we were both research monkeys, except while I had several publications, first author, Nature paper etc, he had multiple big time first author papers.

I agree... I had about 4 yrs of research and had a pretty unique/cool job (2 yrs), lots of publications, conference presentations, and even a grant. I worked 40+/week throughout undergrad and while studying for the MCAT. I'm sure that helped a lot since I had a low GPA and avg MCAT.

Forgot to add that I also applied very very broadly.

 

[wish2bMD]

URM status also helps a lot if you have a low gpa+mcat.

 

[Tadaaa]

URM status also helps a lot if you have a low gpa+mcat.

I agree.... It definitely helps, but don't bank on URM status, you never know who you're competing against.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

I agree.... It definitely helps, but don't bank on URM status, you never know who you're competing against.

Is it assumed that your status as a URM is related to your low GPA ?

 

[Tadaaa]

Is it assumed that your status as a URM is related to your low GPA ?

No it is assumed that my low GPA is due to other factors, the same that could affect non-URMs with a low GPA... I just have an added advantage that they lower the bar a bit for URMs. What I meant from my statement was that URMs shouldn't completely bank on being URM because the bar isn't set as low as SDN makes it seem. There are other parts of your app that have to be stellar when you have a GPA several SD below the normal, even for URM.

Some stats for those that like to see numbers:

Non-URM (white) with a 3.40-3.59 cGPA and a 30-32 MCAT have a 54% of being accepted to medical school.

Hispanic (URM) with a 3.2-3.39 cGPA and a 27-29 MCAT have a 51% chance of being accepted to medical school.

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

No it is assumed that my low GPA is due to other factors, the same that could affect non-URMs with a low GPA... I just have an added advantage that they lower the bar a bit for URMs. What I meant from my statement was that URMs shouldn't completely bank on being URM because the bar isn't set as low as SDN makes it seem. There are other parts of your app that have to be stellar when you have a GPA several SD below the normal, even for URM.

Some stats for those that like to see numbers:

Non-URM (white) with a 3.40-3.59 cGPA and a 30-32 MCAT have a 54% of being accepted to medical school.

Hispanic (URM) with a 3.2-3.39 cGPA and a 27-29 MCAT have a 51% chance of being accepted to medical school.

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

Gotchya. It just confuses me why the bar is lowered based on race rather than other factors. There's wealthy URMs who went to prep school and poor non-URMs who have to work all through college. I totally get why URMs are aggressively recruited, but it seems that if you're going to give some "leeway" for lower numbers, it would be for the latter group (or non-wealthy URMs).

 

[darklabel]

Gotchya. It just confuses me why the bar is lowered based on race rather than other factors. There's wealthy URMs who went to prep school and poor non-URMs who have to work all through college. I totally get why URMs are aggressively recruited, but it seems that if you're going to give some "leeway" for lower numbers, it would be for the latter group (or non-wealthy URMs).

Problem is, they aren't really judged that way because only way you can know is if they are Disadvantaged/on FAP. On average, URMs as a whole score lower and theres less wealthy URMs than non-wealthy URMs.

But I agree with you.

 

[Tadaaa]

Gotchya. It just confuses me why the bar is lowered based on race rather than other factors. There's wealthy URMs who went to prep school and poor non-URMs who have to work all through college. I totally get why URMs are aggressively recruited, but it seems that if you're going to give some "leeway" for lower numbers, it would be for the latter group (or non-wealthy URMs).

Beats me... honestly I know it's not fair and that I just got lucky. However, some schools look at disadvantaged status, first generation to go to college etc. This may help, whether the student is white or URM. I don't have any facts, this is just what 2 of the schools I interviewed at said. Additionally, the competition between URM vs URM applicants is diminished compared to White vs White applicants, by the fact that there are approximately 10,000 Hispanics applying for admission vs 80,000 white (2010-2012). That's just my idea. Obviously other factors come into play.


I know I'm only using the Hispanic URM numbers.

 

[CriticalCond]

I desperately wish I could pick the brains (or MDApplicant pages) of the 4 people who were accepted with GPAs below 2.2!

 

[SixStringPsych]

Gotchya. It just confuses me why the bar is lowered based on race rather than other factors. There's wealthy URMs who went to prep school and poor non-URMs who have to work all through college. I totally get why URMs are aggressively recruited, but it seems that if you're going to give some "leeway" for lower numbers, it would be for the latter group (or non-wealthy URMs).

This has been discussed ad nauseum obviously, but it's not all about being poor vs. being wealthy and giving the less fortunate an advantage. Its about patient populations and the idea that minorities feel more comfortable with minority doctors and less comfortable with white doctors for lots of reasons, and less willing to participate in research, etc, etc (see the Tuskegee experiments).

 

[lobo.solo]

It depends on the rest of your app. Certainly 3.0 is the cut off.

 

[Eiot]

If an applicant were to just join a lab and do research with no publications but still have strong scores (3.8 GPA, 32 MCAT) on top of other standard ECs, would they have a completely fair shot of getting in would you think?

Is your avatar about to say, "BITCH"?

 

[502623]

Is your avatar about to say, "BITCH"?

Lol, absolutely. I love the Unforgivable videos. It's specifically in #4. He says that the female says "Well, I have a boyfriend," and he promptly replies "Bitch, no one asked that!"

 

[sinombre]

Lol, absolutely. I love the Unforgivable videos. It's specifically in #4. He says that the female says "Well, I have a boyfriend," and he promptly replies "Bitch, no one asked that!"

lol... that's where it's from. I knew it looked familiar.

 

[Lys Ile Glu Leu]

lol... that's where it's from. I knew it looked familiar.

Diggin' the signature! Lold.

 

[sinombre]

Diggin' the signature! Lold.

Anyway, keep up the good work OP. If I were you I would spend some time looking over official AAMC data and referencing the MSAR to get an idea of the GPA/MCAT ranges for schools you're interested in.

 

[ralphlauren55]

I have a 3.0 at the moment and this is only because I struggled with SEVERE chronic back pain for the last 5 years. Just had surgery which pretty much cured my back pain and I plan on getting a 4.0 from here on which will make me end up with a 3.4 or so. I have talked to admissions officers and they say that I have a great chance of getting in. It's all about your STORY. Not everyone has an easy/perfect life that goes to med school. I have also been to Mayo Clinic 2x and they have wrote me great recommendations from when I attended their Pain Rehabilitation Center, which looks really good and explains my low GPA.

If you have a low GPA, be sure to ACE the MCAT and have a great story to tell about your GPA. Don't be afraid of your GPA from your freshman and sophmore years, from everything I've heard they look way more at your junior/senior years. Hope that helps.

 

[Eiot]

Lol, absolutely. I love the Unforgivable videos. It's specifically in #4. He says that the female says "Well, I have a boyfriend," and he promptly replies "Bitch, no one asked that!"

Haha so classic.

 

[chillaxbro]

No it is assumed that my low GPA is due to other factors, the same that could affect non-URMs with a low GPA... I just have an added advantage that they lower the bar a bit for URMs. What I meant from my statement was that URMs shouldn't completely bank on being URM because the bar isn't set as low as SDN makes it seem. There are other parts of your app that have to be stellar when you have a GPA several SD below the normal, even for URM.

Some stats for those that like to see numbers:

Non-URM (white) with a 3.40-3.59 cGPA and a 30-32 MCAT have a 54% of being accepted to medical school.

Hispanic (URM) with a 3.2-3.39 cGPA and a 27-29 MCAT have a 51% chance of being accepted to medical school.

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

Asian 3.4-3.59 GPA 30-32 MCAT = 48.0%
White 3.4-3.59 GPA 30-32 MCAT = 54.2%
African American 3.4-3.59 GPA 30-32 MCAT = 93.2%

I can cherrypick data too.
Why are you comparing a low stat URM with a high stat ORM makes no sense bro

 

[mimelim]

I have a 3.0 at the moment and this is only because I struggled with SEVERE chronic back pain for the last 5 years. Just had surgery which pretty much cured my back pain and I plan on getting a 4.0 from here on which will make me end up with a 3.4 or so. I have talked to admissions officers and they say that I have a great chance of getting in. It's all about your STORY. Not everyone has an easy/perfect life that goes to med school. I have also been to Mayo Clinic 2x and they have wrote me great recommendations from when I attended their Pain Rehabilitation Center, which looks really good and explains my low GPA.

If you have a low GPA, be sure to ACE the MCAT and have a great story to tell about your GPA. Don't be afraid of your GPA from your freshman and sophmore years, from everything I've heard they look way more at your junior/senior years. Hope that helps.

You got letters for being a patient?

 

[wiloghby]

You got letters for being a patient?

ROFL. Is that how it works?

"You've spent a lot of time in our hospital being sick, and we must say... you seem like you hack it as a doctor too. Wanna switch?"

 

[ralphlauren55]

You got letters for being a patient?

Yes. They were with me for a month from 8 am until 7pm for 4 weeks and know my entire medical history

 

[mimelim]

Yes. They were with me for a month from 8 am until 7pm for 4 weeks and know my entire medical history

I'm not sure how you think those will be strong letters. All signs point toward them being pretty weak.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

Doctors make terrible patients. Hopefully the converse is not assumed to be true by ADCOMS or you might be in trouble.

 

[mimelim]

Yes. They were with me for a month from 8 am until 7pm for 4 weeks and know my entire medical history

I guess I should clarify before everyone gets up in arms.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=985472

1) Who is the writer
2) What is your relationship with your writer
3) What can the writer vouch for

I have a hard time coming up with a situation where a doctor patient relationship is a good thing to base a letter of recommendation. Just a cautionary, most people think that their letters of rec are great and rarely are they right, they often confuse nice things being said about them with a strong letter. Just as most people think in a, "well, if I get a 4.0 from here on out, despite never coming close to that in the past, then XYZ will happen."

 

[goofball]

The "lowest" GPA to get in really depends on your race. I'm not trolling, just speaking the facts.

But up until a point, a good MCAT and ECs can compensate for a subpar GPA to some extent.

 

[Lys Ile Glu Leu]

"XYZ" (in my case) = acceptance.

 

[mehc012]

Asian 3.4-3.59 GPA 30-32 MCAT = 48.0%
White 3.4-3.59 GPA 30-32 MCAT = 54.2%
African American 3.4-3.59 GPA 30-32 MCAT = 93.2%

I can cherrypick data too.
Why are you comparing a low stat URM with a high stat ORM makes no sense bro

They were comparing two populations with a very similar MD acceptance rate, so as to highlight the difference in stats required for URMs and non-URMs. The point being that white students with good stats have ~50% acceptance rate, but hispanic students are accepted at a similar rate with lower stats.

Their cherrypicked data made sense, or at least demonstrated a point. Yours is just random.