M.D.s and D.O.s Moving toward a Single, Unified Accreditation System for GME

[411309]

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For any of you who are going to be entering DO school in the next couple of years this is good news, especially if there's one match. Reason being? OMM requirements (if implemented) will discourage MDs from applying to the (formerly) DO residencies. Add the MD/DO bias that is already in place in some program directors' heads (in both directions) and DO will be favored in the DO programs just like MD is favored in MD programs (obviously this is not all-inclusive, I'm just trying to illustrate a point).

If there's one match you don't have to "risk" skipping the AOA match for MD match. You'll be able to rank all the MD programs you want while being able to throw some DO programs in there as well. To me, that's the biggest difference.

20 years from now I'd say this will be different because most of the "old guard" will be gone and there will be no preference for DO vs MD at DO programs. Then again, a lot of the animosity against DOs at MD programs will be gone as well.

And honestly, one accrediting body is the way to go, regardless of what it's called.

Really good post, I was thinking about along these lines too. Im sure former DO programs will hold some bias for DOs or at least a little sympathy in their hearts ; )

 

[Postictal Raiden]

For any of you who are going to be entering DO school in the next couple of years this is good news, especially if there's one match. Reason being? OMM requirements (if implemented) will discourage MDs from applying to the (formerly) DO residencies. Add the MD/DO bias that is already in place in some program directors' heads (in both directions) and DO will be favored in the DO programs just like MD is favored in MD programs (obviously this is not all-inclusive, I'm just trying to illustrate a point).

If there's one match you don't have to "risk" skipping the AOA match for MD match. You'll be able to rank all the MD programs you want while being able to throw some DO programs in there as well. To me, that's the biggest difference.

20 years from now I'd say this will be different because most of the "old guard" will be gone and there will be no preference for DO vs MD at DO programs. Then again, a lot of the animosity against DOs at MD programs will be gone as well.

And honestly, one accrediting body is the way to go, regardless of what it's called.

I agree with you that this is the biggest win of the entire deal. Now, competitive students who are interested in, let's say, urology won't be worried about losing a potential DO spot to wait for the MD match.

This news have made me literally scream and jump up and down. Now, I'm no longer in doubt to apply to DO programs. There's no more a downside to the DO route.

 

[Ost3oclast]

There's no more a downside to the DO route.

I see it the same way. Up until now I was really banking on getting into an MD school I just interviewed at (although I have already been accepted DO). Now, I could genuinely care less where I go to school. If I get into MD, great, if not, where is the residency disadvantage we faced? Its gonna be phased out as things move up to ACGME standards. It also protects DO's getting into fellowships so we are set, if we put in the work. Getting this news was a great way to start my day.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

I see it the same way. Up until now I was really banking on getting into an MD school I just interviewed at (although I have already been accepted DO). Now, I could genuinely care less where I go to school. If I get into MD, great, if not, where is the residency disadvantage we faced? Its gonna be phased out as things move up to ACGME standards. It also protects DO's getting into fellowships so we are set, if we put in the work. Getting this news was a great way to start my day.

👍

 

[MurphyMed13]

In the case that anyone has missed it, there is a FAQ document on the website the AOA created for this issue.

General page – www.osteopathic.org/acgme.

Direct link to FAQ.

This will provide you with specific answers (direct from the AOA) to a lot of your questions. It may also clear up some confusion relating to the changes and/or specific to osteopathic medical students/residents going into postdoctoral training - whether before or after July 2015.

Per the AOA, a lot of discussions regarding the specifics of the unified accreditation system will be taking place over the next several months.

You can always find the latest information on the AOA website.


__________________________________
CCOM 2013
AOA BOT Student Member 2012-2013

 

[SoulinNeed]

I see it the same way. Up until now I was really banking on getting into an MD school I just interviewed at (although I have already been accepted DO). Now, I could genuinely care less where I go to school. If I get into MD, great, if not, where is the residency disadvantage we faced? Its gonna be phased out as things move up to ACGME standards. It also protects DO's getting into fellowships so we are set, if we put in the work. Getting this news was a great way to start my day.

I really don't get this mindset.

DO's were always able to apply to MD programs. This doesn't change DO school standards, and until that happens, MD programs will still discriminate against DO's.

At the end of the day, this means more competition for what were DO exclusive spots. However, at least now, DO's don't have to worry about applying to two matches.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Perhaps an M.D, D.O like Dr. Still 🙂

totally fine with that 👍

 

[Ost3oclast]

I really don't get this mindset.

DO's were always able to apply to MD programs. This doesn't change DO school standards, and until that happens, MD programs will still discriminate against DO's.

At the end of the day, this means more competition for what were DO exclusive spots. However, at least now, DO's don't have to worry about applying to two matches.

Mindset? How about the fact that we didnt have fellowships taken away like was originally hypothesized by many here. Isnt that a big deal? Especially because I plan doing one. Also, what about raising the standards on "DO" residency programs? These are the changes I am most excited about.

Edit- also, I dont mind competition. If everybody is put on the same level and I get a ROAD specialty, I know I earned that spot. If anything, you will be seen as more of an equal with these new changes, seeing as you beat out the best to get there. I dont want to be a specialist and have people think that the only reason I was able to get the spot was because MD students couldnt apply to the program. THAT is a bias that will begin to be removed with these changes.

 

[HalfListic]

I really don't get this mindset.

DO's were always able to apply to MD programs. This doesn't change DO school standards, and until that happens, MD programs will still discriminate against DO's.

At the end of the day, this means more competition for what were DO exclusive spots. However, at least now, DO's don't have to worry about applying to two matches.

You still dont get that this is no longer a reality...


for the third or fourth time, you have to compare the two possible futures. Not the past with one of the potential futures.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Haha. Maybe so. But whatever the true motive is, it was something that desperately needed to be done. Imagine that people will no longer be able to worry about landing a "crappy" DO residency. It will soon have the same quality as its MD counterparts. Not bad 😉

Hopefully the next step is to petition the government, in unison, to fund for more residency slots to open.

I actually have a different opinion when it comes to increasing residency spots.

I am against flooding the nation with doctors. If the government gives a green light for increasing residencies, more and more schools will open up and more doctors will be produced. Before you know it, supply will surpass the demand and incomes plummet. Maintain physician shortage is good for us, future doctors.

Besides, there is an increase of residency spots that occur every year. I know that I have stated in another thread few days ago that residencies are not increasing, but I was wrong. I did a little research and discovered that, for exception of one year, there has been an annual increase of ~2% in pgy1 positions. I know that this is not enough to keep up with the increasing number of new medical schools, but I think the problem is that new programs are popping up at stupidly high rate, not that there's not enough residencies.

 

[HalfListic]

SoulinNeed...re-read these. Get up to speed.

***things were not going to stay the same, so you cant compare it to now...you have to compare the two futures (restricted DOs vs combined match) I choose combined match, combined accreditation any day! MDs will still have to be OMM and OPP trained if they want AOA residencies which will reduce competition a bit anyway.***

There are literally 3 threads on this right now and I have no idea which one to post in.

This is a HUGE win for D.O's, at this point I don't really care who says otherwise (just ignore them, they're always complaining about something)

We went from potentially not being able to even enter M.D fellowships after AOA and having to repeat our TRI's before entering the ACGME to:

1. Being able to enter any fellowship or TRI, because they will all be accredited by one body.
   
2. Be able to have 1 match list, no more worrying about matching AOA first and being pulled out of the match.
   
3. Increasing the standards of some of our AOA residency programs by forcing them to to adhere to ACGME policies.
   
4. As of right now MD/IMG students still cannot enter the AOA match which retains our AOA options (I fully expect this to change in the future, and MD's should be allowed to enter our programs, but as of right now, it's not happening).
   
5. If you want to practice in one of the states that requires you to do an AOA TRI (Penn, Florida, Oklahoma, etc) you may not have to do that anymore (yes I know you could appeal but it's a pain) that very well might be disappearing.
   
6. It will lead to more DO's matching into MD residencies and it will (in the future) lead to less discrimination. You kidding yourself if you think otherwise. It may take some time, but it will happen.
   
7. The "influx" of MD student shooting for DO residencies (which they can't even do yet) will be moderated by DO program directors who know that we are actively discriminated against at the "top tier" MD residencies. Over time, just like with MD directors, we will start to see equality.
   

This is awful for IMG's.

1. They can't enter the AOA programs.
   
2. Now they need to do an ACGME residency to do a fellowship.
   
3. You're going to have more DO's applying to "MD" residencies which will kick out even more IMG's
   

For any of you who are going to be entering DO school in the next couple of years this is good news, especially if there's one match. Reason being? OMM requirements (if implemented) will discourage MDs from applying to the (formerly) DO residencies. Add the MD/DO bias that is already in place in some program directors' heads (in both directions) and DO will be favored in the DO programs just like MD is favored in MD programs (obviously this is not all-inclusive, I'm just trying to illustrate a point).

If there's one match you don't have to "risk" skipping the AOA match for MD match. You'll be able to rank all the MD programs you want while being able to throw some DO programs in there as well. To me, that's the biggest difference.

20 years from now I'd say this will be different because most of the "old guard" will be gone and there will be no preference for DO vs MD at DO programs. Then again, a lot of the animosity against DOs at MD programs will be gone as well.

And honestly, one accrediting body is the way to go, regardless of what it's called.

 

[ModernAlchemist]

I really don't get this mindset.

DO's were always able to apply to MD programs. This doesn't change DO school standards, and until that happens, MD programs will still discriminate against DO's.

At the end of the day, this means more competition for what were DO exclusive spots. However, at least now, DO's don't have to worry about applying to two matches.

 

[SoulinNeed]

Mindset? How about the fact that we didnt have fellowships taken away like was originally hypothesized by many here. Isnt that a big deal? Especially because I plan doing one. Also, what about raising the standards on "DO" residency programs? These are the changes I am most excited about.

It's great that fellowships weren't taken away, but I see the options facing the AOA as being a lose, lose scenario. On the one hand, they would have lost fellowships, and on the other, they would keep fellowships, but have to let MD students apply for AOA spots. They went for the latter option, and yes, it's good that DO students don't lose fellowships, but now they face greater competition for spots that were previously exclusively theirs. And I don't understand why people think MD's won't go for these positions. Yes, there is the OMM guard, but I'm sure plenty of MD students would learn OMM, if it meant getting into a competitive specialty over primary care. And I doubt DO program directors will discriminate against MD students. If they did, then MD program directors would feel justified in discriminating against DO students, and we're back to square one.

Yes, it's good, that fellowships get preserved for DO students, but let's not act like this is a win for DO students. Yes, you can keep fellowships (which is the way things are now, anyway), but now, DO students face greater competition from MD (and IMG) students for what used to be DO only spots.

 

[HalfListic]

I actually have a different opinion when it comes to increasing residency spots.

I am against flooding the nation with doctors. [BI]f the government gives a green light for increasing residencies, more and more schools will open up and more doctors will be produced. Before you know it, supply will surpass the demand and incomes plummet. Maintain physician shortage is good for us, future doctors.[/B]

Besides, there is an increase of residency spots that occur every year. I know that I have stated in another thread few days ago that residencies are not increasing, but I was wrong. I did a little research and discovered that, for exception of one year, there has been an annual increase of ~2% in pgy1 positions. I know that this is not enough to keep up with the increasing number of new medical schools, but I think the problem is that new programs are popping up at stupidly high rate, not that there's not enough residencies.

Can there not be an increase in GME programs without increasing med schools?

I think there can be...which is why opening new schools is regulated (and it seems like the regulation for COCA will be a bit tighter)

But, in the end, we do need more docs in general...of all kinds. Not now, but in the foreseeable future. A shortage is good for us, but a drastic shortage is obviously a HUGE problem for healthcare and needs to be addressed

 

[HalfListic]

It's great that fellowships weren't taken away, but I see the options facing the AOA as being a lose, lose scenario. .

Then you didnt understand them.

Im not trying to pick on you, but it just seems like you arent getting it

**also, for the millionth time...your statement about competition going up is really irrelevant! And IMGs arent going to be competition, btw. Things were going to change...we got a much much better change than the alternative...this is a win for DO's**

 

[SoulinNeed]

SoulinNeed...re-read these. Get up to speed.

I am up to speed. According to the AACOM FAQ on this subject, MD (and IMG) students will be allowed to apply to AOA spots, but they may need to prove some competency in OMM first. And IMG have always needed to do a ACGME residency in order to get ACGME fellowships. Both of my parents are foreign grads, and they had to redo their residencies more than a decade ago, when they arrived here.

I get the benefits of one match. I get that. Now, DO students don't have to worry about applying to two matches. However, I think the disadvantage of allowing MD students into AOA residencies outweights that.

Folks, if it were up to the AOA, they would have kept things the way they are now. DO students being allowed to apply ACGME (fellowships and all), and have exclusive DO AOA spots. However, their hands were twisted, and they had to relent to pressure from ACGME and AAMC to let MD students into their match.

 

[SoulinNeed]

Then you didnt understand them.

Im not trying to pick on you, but it just seems like you arent getting it

**also, for the millionth time...your statement about competition going up is really irrelevant! And IMGs arent going to be competition, btw. Things were going to change...we got a much much better change than the alternative...this is a win for DO's**

How is it irrelevant? MD's now being allowed to apply to AOA spots is not irrelevant, no matter how much you try to convince yourself it is. Yes, I know the alternative would have meant no fellowships, but MD's now being allowed in AOA spots is NOT irrelevant. And IMGs now being allowed to apply for AOA spots makes them competition. Unless you think your scores will just blow them away, then they are competition.

 

[HalfListic]

I am up to speed. According to the AACOM FAQ on this subject, MD (and IMG) students will be allowed to apply to AOA spots, but they may need to prove some competency in OMM first. And IMG have always needed to do a ACGME residency in order to get ACGME fellowships. Both of my parents are foreign grads, and they had to redo their residencies more than a decade ago, when they arrived here.

I get the benefits of one match. I get that. Now, DO students don't have to worry about applying to two matches. However, I think the disadvantage of allowing MD students into AOA residencies outweights that.

Folks, if it were up to the AOA, they would have kept things the way they are now. DO students being allowed to apply ACGME (fellowships and all), and have exclusive DO AOA spots. However, their hands were twisted, and they had to relent to pressure from ACGME and AAMC to let MD students into their match.

No, they didn't have to.

The other option was to basically be sanctioned by the ACGME and for DOs to have several restrictions on specializing in MD programs. HOW would that be better?

You say "I think the disadvantage of allowing MD students into AOA residencies outweights that"

I dont think you know what "that" is.

"that" is being sanctioned by the ACGME, not by keeping things as they are now...thats NOT and option. Please get it this time?


edit: also, you are ignoring the benefits of combining AOA with ACGME

 

[Ravizzle]

But the md peeps will have to show OMM competency! How many mds do u see doing that? I think u are overestimating the amount of aoa spots that mds will take

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[DrBumblebee]

but the md peeps will have to show omm competency! How many mds do u see doing that? I think u are overestimating the amount of aoa spots that mds will take

sent from my galaxy s2

+1

 

[Ravizzle]

Also is there any mention of whether DO would still do comlex? Would md applying to aoa spot have to do that too.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[ModernAlchemist]

Also is there any mention of whether DO would still do comlex? Would md applying to aoa spot have to do that too.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

I think they're saying both will be accepted. Check out the FAQ.

 

[SoulinNeed]

No, they didn't have to.

The other option was to basically be sanctioned by the ACGME and for DOs to have several restrictions on specializing in MD programs. HOW would that be better?

You say "I think the disadvantage of allowing MD students into AOA residencies outweights that"

I dont think you know what "that" is.

"that" is being sanctioned by the ACGME, not by keeping things as they are now...thats NOT and option. Please get it this time?


edit: also, you are ignoring the benefits of combining AOA with ACGME

Dude, stop with the condescending attitude. I got a 13 on the VR portion of the MCAT, I understand reading comprehension. I get it. I know what the alternative is, but I feel like you're acting like MD's now being allowed to apply to AOA residencies is "irrelevant". It's more competition. Yes, at least now, DO's avoid ACGME sanctions, but nevertheless, it's more competition, and I predict that it will lead to less DO's specializing.

 

[Ost3oclast]

It's great that fellowships weren't taken away, but I see the options facing the AOA as being a lose, lose scenario. On the one hand, they would have lost fellowships, and on the other, they would keep fellowships, but have to let MD students apply for AOA spots. They went for the latter option, and yes, it's good that DO students don't lose fellowships, but now they face greater competition for spots that were previously exclusively theirs. And I don't understand why people think MD's won't go for these positions. Yes, there is the OMM guard, but I'm sure plenty of MD students would learn OMM, if it meant getting into a competitive specialty over primary care. And I doubt DO program directors will discriminate against MD students. If they did, then MD program directors would feel justified in discriminating against DO students, and we're back to square one.

Yes, it's good, that fellowships get preserved for DO students, but let's not act like this is a win for DO students. Yes, you can keep fellowships (which is the way things are now, anyway), but now, DO students face greater competition from MD (and IMG) students for what used to be DO only spots.

I see what you are saying and can see your side of the argument. Technically, nothing changed for DO students, we have always been able to do ACGME residency and fellowships. As you said, these got preserved (permanently it seems) and that is a big deal. However, where we differ is on the new competition we will face. I think its a good thing. Finally a way for us to prove that we can match into ROAD specialties on our own "turf" against MD students in what were, DO residencies. Obviously you dont see it that way, which is fine. If you work hard enough, you can get the spot, regardless of new competition. We want to be treated as equals, time to put up or shut up IMO. But i do see where you are coming from.

 

[SoulinNeed]

But the md peeps will have to show OMM competency! How many mds do u see doing that? I think u are overestimating the amount of aoa spots that mds will take

Sent from my Galaxy S2

You tell an MD student that they either do a primary care residency, or get to specialize but have to prove some OMM competency that they will likely never use again, and I'm sure plenty of MD students will do some OMM, no problem.

 

[DrBumblebee]

This will be a fair end of the pointless fight between MD vs. DO worlds, which has been benefitting IMGs/FMGs.. American physicians unite!..

One more step to take: one name for all to wear. I'll be more than happy to have MD, DO title on my name tag.

 

[ModernAlchemist]

Dude, stop with the condescending attitude. I got a 13 on the VR portion of the MCAT, I understand reading comprehension. I get it. I know what the alternative is, but I feel like you're acting like MD's now being allowed to apply to AOA residencies is "irrelevant". It's more competition. Yes, at least now, DO's avoid ACGME sanctions, but nevertheless, it's more competition, and I predict that it will lead to less DO's specializing.

Fyi, pointing this out diminishes your credibility.

 

[XCourtSmash]

OMM being required makes it so a lot of MD's and IMG's will have to take an extra year off to learn that stuff. I can see the IMG's doing that when they can't match, but I really can't see MD's doing that. I still say overall this makes life as a DO student much easier.

MD's being competent in OMM will take time. For the next decade, I'm going to predict a few MD's will crossover, but nowhere near the number of DO's crossing over to ACGME residencies. In the future some MD schools might offer OMM as an elective to prepare their kids, but that won't happen overnight.

Then again, all of this is moot in light of the fact that it is up to the student. Now there will just be less restrictions. If you want something, go for it.

 

[GypsyHummus]

And this ladies and gentlemen, is what we call a compromise.

This is going to be really really bad for DO students graduating in the next 5-10 years, but good for the osteopathic profession in the long term. All this does is help to close the discrimination gap if everyone is held to the same standards.

It will suck for people who went to DO school shooting for that orthopedic spot knowing they had a better chance matching with AOA. I predict this will help DOs going into primary care fellowships like endo, cardio, super specialties, but hurt those going into a surgical field.

 

[sisko]

yes, if it's gonna be a single match I sure hope we go to a single exam soon too. that would be an undeniable positive for DO students, only having to prep for and take one exam instead of two

 

[SoulinNeed]

I see what you are saying and can see your side of the argument. Technically, nothing changed for DO students, we have always been able to do ACGME residency and fellowships. As you said, these got preserved (permanently it seems) and that is a big deal. However, where we differ is on the new competition we will face. I think its a good thing. Finally a way for us to prove that we can match into ROAD specialties on our own "turf" against MD students in what were, DO residencies. Obviously you dont see it that way, which is fine. If you work hard enough, you can get the spot, regardless of new competition. We want to be treated as equals, time to put up or shut up IMO. But i do see where you are coming from.

Thank you for at least understanding what I'm saying. Personally, though, I never cared about "DO's proving themselves against MD's." Most of that is just SDN BS that meant nothing in the real world.

 

[Ost3oclast]

And this ladies and gentlemen, is what we call a compromise.

This is going to be really really bad for DO students graduating in the next 5-10 years, but good for the osteopathic profession in the long term. All this does is help to close the discrimination gap if everyone is held to the same standards.

It will suck for people who went to DO school shooting for that orthopedic spot knowing they had a better chance matching with AOA. I predict this will help DOs going into primary care fellowships like endo, cardio, super specialties, but hurt those going into a surgical field.

Agreed, at least now, there is no advantage or disadvantage in residency. It just is what it is.

 

[Ravizzle]

I think they're saying both will be accepted. Check out the FAQ.

I read the faq, but no mention of comlex or usmle.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[DrBumblebee]

And this ladies and gentlemen, is what we call a compromise.

This is going to be really really bad for DO students graduating in the next 5-10 years, but good for the osteopathic profession in the long term. All this does is help to close the discrimination gap if everyone is held to the same standards.

It will suck for people who went to DO school shooting for that orthopedic spot knowing they had a better chance matching with AOA. I predict this will help DOs going into primary care fellowships like endo, cardio, super specialties, but hurt those going into a surgical field.

More than half of the DO school graduates, and pre-meds like me, tend to go this route... So, this is golden..😀

 

[Ravizzle]

OMM being required makes it so a lot of MD's and IMG's will have to take an extra year off to learn that stuff. I can see the IMG's doing that when they can't match, but I really can't see MD's doing that. I still say overall this makes life as a DO student much easier.

MD's being competent in OMM will take time. For the next decade, I'm going to predict a few MD's will crossover, but nowhere near the number of DO's crossing over to ACGME residencies. In the future some MD schools might offer OMM as an elective to prepare their kids, but that won't happen overnight.

Then again, all of this is moot in light of the fact that it is up to the student. Now there will just be less restrictions. If you want something, go for it.

+1 idk why ppl don't realize the competition for aoa slots isn't going to increase much bc of this.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[SLC]

Another potential plus of all this is linked to a hypothetical disadvantage DO's may have had in the NRMP. A program may have traditionally hesitated ranking a rock star DO student as highly because they knew that if that student applied DO they likely wouldn't get him/her. That will no longer be an issue.

A program now knows that if there's mutual interest the rankings merely need to reflect that and all will (should) go as planned.

 

[zoner]

Somebody should post a poll on allo forum to see who is willing to study extra time of omm/opp in order to match into aoa specialty residency

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using SDN Mobile

 

[Ost3oclast]

+1 idk why ppl don't realize the competition for aoa slots isn't going to increase much bc of this.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

I think, at first, you are correct. However, i think that after some time, the competitiveness will increase as all the people in charge begin to solidify guidelines that MD students need in order to complete an "AOA" specialty. Also, given how many schools are opening up, people arent going to care where they can get their residency of choice, they are just going to want one in the specialty they desire. This will increase the competition as well. However, I think this is further into the future.

 

[phikapdoctor]

Somebody should post a poll on allo forum to see who is willing to study extra time of omm/opp in order to match into aoa specialty residency

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using SDN Mobile

This would be very interesting


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app please excuse punctuation and spelling

 

[cliquesh]

if the ACGME said that DOs need to learn japanesse in order to apply...to a VERYY VERYY small # of positions

many of us would not even consider that an option...

I think if you read savarrse, which is an omm review book, and did a couple hundred practice questions, you could learn omm well enough in 2 weeks to pass a written exam. It's not very challenging. If you had to do a practical...that would make things harder.

 

[museic]

Don't forget that aside from Ortho, there are not many AOA spots for competitive positions. I guarantee that short term there will be minimal MDs to DO spots. Studying your butt off to increase your chance of matching by 1% is not really worth the effort. Focus on MD spots and help your chance there. Furthermore it is common knowledge that the vast majority of these competitive programs will only consider you if you have rotated through the program. Good luck with blocking out the DO's who want to rotate through these same programs. IMG's will not have a shot, stateside MDs? maybe.

Long term there is going to be much more crossover but I will already of matched and could care less.

 

[medfield12]

Since the accreditation standards will now be uniform and the residencies will all be accredited by the ACGME then the requirements for OMM will fade away into oblivion for most specialties. Does anyone really think that during interview season a program director in an ophthalmology or radiology residency will care whether or not the potential resident can do OMM?

 

[411309]

Dude, stop with the condescending attitude. I got a 13 on the VR portion of the MCAT, I understand reading comprehension. I get it. I know what the alternative is, but I feel like you're acting like MD's now being allowed to apply to AOA residencies is "irrelevant". It's more competition. Yes, at least now, DO's avoid ACGME sanctions, but nevertheless, it's more competition, and I predict that it will lead to less DO's specializing.

well this changes everything

 

[HalfListic]

I read the faq, but no mention of comlex or usmle.

Sent from my Galaxy S2

I think the only thing stated is that this is still being discussed...

A fair thought is that eventually there will be one test to rule them all, since it did discuss board review members for COMLEX will be able to join USMLE review boards

 

[HalfListic]

🙂 lol

I wasn't even trying to be condescending to him either… He just seems to want me to validate his point, which I don't agree with.

He is overstating the potential increase of competition and trying to compare the present conditions (which are irrelevant because they will change no matter what) to the future.

Oh well...no hard feelings, just trying to discount misinformation.

 

[ValentineLissar]

Somebody should post a poll on allo forum to see who is willing to study extra time of omm/opp in order to match into aoa specialty residency

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using SDN Mobile

I'd be interested in seeing the results!

 

[SoulinNeed]

🙂 lol

I wasn't even trying to be condescending to him either… He just seems to want me to validate his point, which I don't agree with.

He is overstating the potential increase of competition and trying to compare the present conditions (which are irrelevant because they will change no matter what) to the future.

Oh well...no hard feelings, just trying to discount misinformation.

How is it misinformation? HOW? I've already acknowledged the other possible outcome. You're the one saying that increased MD competition is "irrelevant". It isn't. It's arguably the biggest thing to come out of this, depending on your perspective.

And you were being condescending. Saying something, "Please get it this time?" is very condescending to me. I got your point repeatedly, and acknowledged it over and over again.

I've shown you respect throughout this. Please do the same for me.

 

[Dmr6186]

How is it misinformation? HOW? I've already acknowledged the other possible outcome. You're the one saying that increased MD competition is "irrelevant". It isn't. It's arguably the biggest thing to come out of this, depending on your perspective.

And you were being condescending. Saying something, "Please get it this time?" is very condescending to me. I got your point repeatedly, and acknowledged it over and over again.

I've shown you respect throughout this. Please do the same for me.

It may increase competition but there's a lot showing it may not be as bad as people think. First there is the OMM requirement, which can severely hinder many MDs from trying to enter any AOA residencies. I know if I were an MD student, I wouldn't waste my time learning OMM when I could be studying and getting good grades on my classes and doing well on the boards. Second is the fact that ACGME residencies are known to be of very good quality. Why risk going into a potentially not as good AOA residency when you can go to a very prestigious ACGME one? I mean even when I apply for residencies, I will still try and shoot for ACGME rather than an AOA that was accredited by ACGME because many ACGMEs can typically be connected to very large trauma hospitals. Many people will do this. People go with programs of greater reputation.

You have to understand that yes, this is a compromise. However, in all compromises, you have to take some bad in order to get good out of this. And fortunately, there is way more good than bad for DOs. We all understand there will be some competition. But c'mon, we all want to play on the same field, take the same boards, have the same degree. You can't have your cake and eat it too. This is a very good step in the right direction.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Anyone who thinks this will NOT lead to one licensing exam and one match is seriously missing something here. Eventually, even MDs will be able to enter DO residencies. If the DO residencies want to keep up their OMM requirement, the ACGME will force them to provide OMM training during residency and NOT force their MD students to take additional classes or exams before matching.

This is a HUGE win for DOs and would seriously make me consider a DO residency with ACGME approval as a first choice.

 

[Dmr6186]

Anyone who thinks this will NOT lead to one licensing exam and one match is seriously missing something here. Eventually, even MDs will be able to enter DO residencies. If the DO residencies want to keep up their OMM requirement, the ACGME will force them to provide OMM training during residency and NOT force their MD students to take additional classes or exams before matching.

This is a HUGE win for DOs and would seriously make me consider a DO residency with ACGME approval as a first choice.

Exactly. I'm really excited to see how exactly the DO programs will change to meet ACGME's approval.

Everyone keeps spreading misinformation saying how everything is the same, but MDs can infiltrate DO residencies, and MDs can still be biased against DO students. THIS IS NOT TRUE! Anyone who thinks this should read HockeyDr09's post above for greater clarification on WHY this is so good for DO students.