M.D.'s out there, do you look down on D.O.'s?

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Aloe paleo

Aloe paleo

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Like the title says^
i want to engage how people feel. i hear different things so let me know what YOU think 🙂 I've heard people say that they see no difference, while I have had others put them down and it makes me feel really frustrated!
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Alco_Palco said:
Can I hear why you think that?
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Because they function almost entirely in the same way as an MD, except during residency the AOA has required OMM stuff. Once you’re an attending you can do as little or as much OMM as you want, but do exactly what an MD does otherwise.
 
ciestar said:
Because they function almost entirely in the same way as an MD, except during residency the AOA has required OMM stuff. Once you’re an attending you can do as little or as much OMM as you want, but do exactly what an MD does otherwise.
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I understand, I just still don't know why some people I talk to still think differently and it makes me upset!
 
Alco_Palco said:
I understand, I just still don't know why some people I talk to still think differently and it makes me upset!
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I think this is much more common in older physicians vs the younger ones. At the same time, prestige seekers could very well be snobs. Not worth getting upset over.
 
ciestar said:
I think this is much more common in older physicians vs the younger ones. At the same time, prestige seekers could very well be snobs. Not worth getting upset over.
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Thanks for your input ! 🙂
 
Don’t worry, medicine is a prestige driven field. It will never stop. The more specialized looking down on the less specialized. Specialties crapping on primary care. IM/peds primary care looking down on FM. The world turns and you make a good living.
 
DO2015CA said:
Don’t worry, medicine is a prestige driven field. It will never stop. The more specialized looking down on the less specialized. Specialties crapping on primary care. IM/peds primary care looking down on FM. The world turns and you make a good living.
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Hahaha yah i guess!!
 
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Not an MD but I do have some insight working with 2. First MD is aware that DOs have the same scope, thinks of them as equal (at least in clinical practice), and one of his mentors in residency was a DO. If circumstances hadn't interfered, he would've followed in that DO's footsteps (regarding subspecialty), so that gives you an idea of the level of respect that he had. The other MD I work with had a DO as a partner in the past but he is woefully ignorant about the degree. They were in the same field (competitive specialty), doing literally the same surgeries, and is still pretty unaware of those who hold the DO degree for some reason. When I was talking to MD #2 about my upcoming plans he still thought the MD degree was superior and even suggested Caribbean if this cycle doesn't work out. So he is more about the prestige of the MD degree. It's up to the individual to pursue either degree but my goal is to become a good doctor.
 
Alco_Palco said:
Like the title says^
i want to engage how people feel. i hear different things so let me know what YOU think 🙂 I've heard people say that they see no difference, while I have had others put them down and it makes me feel really frustrated!
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These days, the only people who look down on DOs are older MDs, snobbish M4s and ignorant pre-meds.
 
I was on staff at a university hospital and one of 2 DOs on staff. Most MDs were curious and polite. It was interesting to see them develop a more relaxed posture when I described where I did my residency and fellowship. Pedigree bigots do exist and are just a general nuisance. It bothered me alot less when I saw them do the same thing to other MDs.
 
Angus Avagadro said:
I was on staff at a university hospital and one of 2 DOs on staff. Most MDs were curious and polite. It was interesting to see them develop a more relaxed posture when I described where I did my residency and fellowship. Pedigree bigots do exist and are just a general nuisance. It bothered me alot less when I saw them do the same thing to other MDs.
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Thanks for sharing your experiences! 🙂
 
Angus Avagadro said:
I was on staff at a university hospital and one of 2 DOs on staff. Most MDs were curious and polite. It was interesting to see them develop a more relaxed posture when I described where I did my residency and fellowship. Pedigree bigots do exist and are just a general nuisance. It bothered me alot less when I saw them do the same thing to other MDs.
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In addition, pedigree snobs will down on you if you went to, say, U Miami or U IA. My MD colleagues have met such people.
 
Alco_Palco said:
geez you can never win
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What are you trying to "win" exactly? I honestly think that the key to being happy in life is to focus on yourself. Go to a medical school that accepts you and makes you happy. Go into a specialty that you like. And practice in a city that you love. Medicine has so many opportunities.

Anyone who gives you a side eye for the medical school that you went to probably has a million other problems due to their narcissism.
 
I personally have no preference between MD/DO. In fact, as a medical scribe, some of the DO's are my favorites to work with and extremely well respected in the hospital. However, this is an interesting question. It is objectively easier to get into DO school than MD school. So wouldn't it be human nature for there to be some, perhaps even unconscious, bias between the two?
 
TRexLife4 said:
What are you trying to "win" exactly? I honestly think that the key to being happy in life is to focus on yourself. Go to a medical school that accepts you and makes you happy. Go into a specialty that you like. And practice in a city that you love. Medicine has so many opportunities.

Anyone who gives you a side eye for the medical school that you went to probably has a million other problems due to their narcissism.
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You can't win everyone's approval and acceptance no matter what you do is what I mean. If you're in one specialty or another, or MD instead of DO (or vice versa), there's always going to be someone looking down their noses at you. It sucks. But you're right--do what makes you happy. Just hard in a world where everyone thinks their opinion is wanted.
 
TRexLife4 said:
People look down on others because it makes them feel better. Don't let that bother you. People give me side-eye all the time for a scar I have due to a motorcycle accident 3 years ago. Luckily it's on my chest so I can hide it in interviews. I've just learned to not give a f-ck.
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Good for you! I seriously need to learn to care less about what others think! Thanks for the support 🙂
 
Alco_Palco said:
Like the title says^
i want to engage how people feel. i hear different things so let me know what YOU think 🙂 I've heard people say that they see no difference, while I have had others put them down and it makes me feel really frustrated!
Click to expand...

I honestly don't understand why this still occurs. I work with both MD and DO in four different emergency rooms. Each ED has a medical director and ALL of them are DO's. The stigma is ******ed. I do find that with older physicians that they can still have some underlying bias to their persona but their boss is a DO so there is not much they can really say.
 
CaptainPoopyPants said:
I personally have no preference between MD/DO. In fact, as a medical scribe, some of the DO's are my favorites to work with and extremely well respected in the hospital. However, this is an interesting question. It is objectively easier to get into DO school than MD school. So wouldn't it be human nature for there to be some, perhaps even unconscious, bias between the two?
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I believe you are absolutely correct. Someone please tell me why I should give a @#$t? I have never received a good answer to that one. I have always been recognized for my merits and abilities. Pedigree bigotry is only an issue if you give that person the power to make you feel bad. When a physician you respect personally requests you to be the physician taking care of their family member, you have reached the pinnacle. Pedigree at that point has no meaning.
 
the degree names don't matter. a mbbs will transfer a degree to a MD after doing residency in the states. Once you're a residency trained doc, nobody will care, and specially not your patients.
 
I'm playing Devil's advocate here, I don't actually think one physician is inherently better than the other based on what letters are behind the name. But, to everyone saying that the degrees are equal, then why is it that whenever someone presents an application not qualified for MD, the advice is to apply OD? The best applicants do go to MD, that is an objective fact. So by definition, the degrees (I'm not saying the skill of the physician. Again, playing Devil's advocate here) can not be equal. Is this logic of thought not correct?
 
They can have equal standards for graduation (passing licensure exams) and progression to the next stage of training (being matched to a residency), without having equal standards for entry :shrug:. Maybe it means more people flunked out along the way, but if you got to the finish line you’re equal to the rest of the people who got to the finish line.
 
CaptainPoopyPants said:
I'm playing Devil's advocate here, I don't actually think one physician is inherently better than the other based on what letters are behind the name. But, to everyone saying that the degrees are equal, then why is it that whenever someone presents an application not qualified for MD, the advice is to apply OD? The best applicants do go to MD, that is an objective fact. So by definition, the degrees (I'm not saying the skill of the physician. Again, playing Devil's advocate here) can not be equal. Is this logic of thought not correct?
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The degrees are functionally equivalent, the opportunities and bias against are not. That is why the best applicants go MD
 
I guess it’s comparable to IMGs. Statistically they have a harder time making it into US residency, by far, and if you could choose to be a USMD that would be easier. But the ones who do make it? Are absolutely on par with or superior to USMD grads. Therefore I don’t look down on them at all as colleagues, they overcame way more hurdles than I did.
 
CaptainPoopyPants said:
I'm playing Devil's advocate here, I don't actually think one physician is inherently better than the other based on what letters are behind the name. But, to everyone saying that the degrees are equal, then why is it that whenever someone presents an application not qualified for MD, the advice is to apply OD? The best applicants do go to MD, that is an objective fact. So by definition, the degrees (I'm not saying the skill of the physician. Again, playing Devil's advocate here) can not be equal. Is this logic of thought not correct?
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This is only if you define "best applicants" as those who have the highest stats.

But this excludes those people who screwed up their GPAs or MCAT scores because they were too busy goofing off in college, didn't know what they wanted to do, or had some life event clobber them.

SDNer are also advised to not use high stats as validation for their lives or think that somehow they are better people.
 
CaptainPoopyPants said:
I'm playing Devil's advocate here, I don't actually think one physician is inherently better than the other based on what letters are behind the name. But, to everyone saying that the degrees are equal, then why is it that whenever someone presents an application not qualified for MD, the advice is to apply OD? The best applicants do go to MD, that is an objective fact. So by definition, the degrees (I'm not saying the skill of the physician. Again, playing Devil's advocate here) can not be equal. Is this logic of thought not correct?
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This is about as good of an argument as one would expect from someone named Captain Poopy Pants.

There is so much that goes into medical school admissions, let alone the process of medical school itself. In few words, if a DO student can pass boards designed for MD students, then the degrees must, by definition, be equivalent. It's not rocket science.
 
CaptainPoopyPants said:
I'm playing Devil's advocate here, I don't actually think one physician is inherently better than the other based on what letters are behind the name. But, to everyone saying that the degrees are equal, then why is it that whenever someone presents an application not qualified for MD, the advice is to apply OD? The best applicants do go to MD, that is an objective fact. So by definition, the degrees (I'm not saying the skill of the physician. Again, playing Devil's advocate here) can not be equal. Is this logic of thought not correct?
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kuzy said:
The degrees are functionally equivalent, the opportunities and bias against are not. That is why the best applicants go MD
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Goro said:
This is only if you define "best applicants" as those who have the highest stats.

But this excludes those people who screwed up their GPAs or MCAT scores because they were too busy goofing off in college, didn't know what they wanted to do, or had some life event clobber them.

SDNer are also advised to not use high stats as validation for their lives or think that somehow they are better people.
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Isoval said:
This is about as good of an argument as one would expect from someone named Captain Poopy Pants.

There is so much that goes into medical school admissions, let alone the process of medical school itself. In few words, if a DO student can pass boards designed for MD students, then the degrees must, by definition, be equivalent. It's not rocket science.
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CaptainPoopyPants said:
Cool ad hominem, bro. Bet you get all the chicks with that kinda talk. 😉
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@CaptainPoopyPants If I am not mistaken, I think you're trying to say that MDs are "higher" than DOs because it's a lot harder to get into an MD medical school. But what you are missing is that the strength of a pre-med application doesn't always translate to success in medical school or ability to be a good physician. Getting into medical school is an extremely nuanced and complicated process and there are tons of reasons why an excellent person may have trouble getting into medical school:

1) The person doesn't know any doctors and has trouble getting shadowing
2) The person went to a small unknown college and therefore doesn't have resources for research projects
3) The person had to work full time throughout college to support themselves
4) The person had an accident or illness
5) The person comes from an unlucky state such as California
6) The person may have issues being nervous in interviews


Also, with regards to the degrees, you are making two different arguments. Just because it is easier to get into a DO program doesn't mean it's easier to get a DO degree. Besides, several DO schools have MD faculty.
 
******ation

Only posted this comment to see if SDN was going to asterisk me if I decided to talk about a Rf value. Which obviously they will if I spell it out.
 
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