M.D. vs. D.N.P.

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Alex Popa said:
Frankly, I think the majority of you are self-glorified arseholes. My plan is to finish with DNP, which for the record will be a practicing diagnostic doctorate, and not a theoretical Ph.D. The success or capability of a DNP or MD is not a matter of program, hours, or clinical path alone. A lot of it has to do with an individual's intelligence and innate analytical ability. There are plenty of stupid MDs in America. Being a book worm, or able to study like no-one's bussiness does not somehow make you a God. I did 2 years of Bio, 2 years of Chem, 1 of Physics, finished Pre-Calculus, and had a near perfect SAT score in HIGH SCHOOL. Need I go into details of where I started college with my multiple AP courses? I also did my boyfriend's Med. School applications, which according to several interviews was his saving grace. He is now finishing his 3rd year, thanks, in part, to me. So why DNP and not MD? Because being an MD is not only considered one of the most stressful career choices, but because I will walk pretty in my Louboutin heels as an R.N. without the $250k in debt. And when my hospital pays for the post-graduate degrees, it sure makes it easy to save up and open my own clinic. Am I going to be a surgeon? No, but I don't need to cut anyone open. Am I going to make just as much money with a wellness and dermatology center? Oh you bet your dimes I will. A smart "doctor" doesn't need to waste half of their life paying for a white coat. Lets be honest, 90% of patients do not care what your title is as long as you are capable of performing the job.
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Chip on the shoulder, much? This thread was from a year and a half ago for the most part. I think it's time to move on.
 
Alex Popa said:
Frankly, I think the majority of you are self-glorified arseholes. My plan is to finish with DNP, which for the record will be a practicing diagnostic doctorate, and not a theoretical Ph.D. The success or capability of a DNP or MD is not a matter of program, hours, or clinical path alone. A lot of it has to do with an individual's intelligence and innate analytical ability. There are plenty of stupid MDs in America. Being a book worm, or able to study like no-one's bussiness does not somehow make you a God. I did 2 years of Bio, 2 years of Chem, 1 of Physics, finished Pre-Calculus, and had a near perfect SAT score in HIGH SCHOOL. Need I go into details of where I started college with my multiple AP courses? I also did my boyfriend's Med. School applications, which according to several interviews was his saving grace. He is now finishing his 3rd year, thanks, in part, to me. So why DNP and not MD? Because being an MD is not only considered one of the most stressful career choices, but because I will walk pretty in my Louboutin heels as an R.N. without the $250k in debt. And when my hospital pays for the post-graduate degrees, it sure makes it easy to save up and open my own clinic. Am I going to be a surgeon? No, but I don't need to cut anyone open. Am I going to make just as much money with a wellness and dermatology center? Oh you bet your dimes I will. A smart "doctor" doesn't need to waste half of their life paying for a white coat. Lets be honest, 90% of patients do not care what your title is as long as you are capable of performing the job.
Click to expand...

Aggressive, antagonistic, and ill-informed? Sounds like someone has a future in nursing leadership.
 
Alex Popa said:
Frankly, I think the majority of you are self-glorified arseholes. My plan is to finish with DNP, which for the record will be a practicing diagnostic doctorate, and not a theoretical Ph.D. The success or capability of a DNP or MD is not a matter of program, hours, or clinical path alone. A lot of it has to do with an individual's intelligence and innate analytical ability. There are plenty of stupid MDs in America. Being a book worm, or able to study like no-one's bussiness does not somehow make you a God. I did 2 years of Bio, 2 years of Chem, 1 of Physics, finished Pre-Calculus, and had a near perfect SAT score in HIGH SCHOOL. Need I go into details of where I started college with my multiple AP courses? I also did my boyfriend's Med. School applications, which according to several interviews was his saving grace. He is now finishing his 3rd year, thanks, in part, to me. So why DNP and not MD? Because being an MD is not only considered one of the most stressful career choices, but because I will walk pretty in my Louboutin heels as an R.N. without the $250k in debt. And when my hospital pays for the post-graduate degrees, it sure makes it easy to save up and open my own clinic. Am I going to be a surgeon? No, but I don't need to cut anyone open. Am I going to make just as much money with a wellness and dermatology center? Oh you bet your dimes I will. A smart "doctor" doesn't need to waste half of their life paying for a white coat. Lets be honest, 90% of patients do not care what your title is as long as you are capable of performing the job.
Click to expand...

Someone is a little butthurt...

You might need a prescription for some Vicodin for the pain... Oh wait you need an M.D. for that
 
Alex Popa said:
Frankly, I think the majority of you are self-glorified arseholes. My plan is to finish with DNP, which for the record will be a practicing diagnostic doctorate, and not a theoretical Ph.D. The success or capability of a DNP or MD is not a matter of program, hours, or clinical path alone. A lot of it has to do with an individual's intelligence and innate analytical ability. There are plenty of stupid MDs in America. Being a book worm, or able to study like no-one's bussiness does not somehow make you a God. I did 2 years of Bio, 2 years of Chem, 1 of Physics, finished Pre-Calculus, and had a near perfect SAT score in HIGH SCHOOL. Need I go into details of where I started college with my multiple AP courses? I also did my boyfriend's Med. School applications, which according to several interviews was his saving grace. He is now finishing his 3rd year, thanks, in part, to me. So why DNP and not MD? Because being an MD is not only considered one of the most stressful career choices, but because I will walk pretty in my Louboutin heels as an R.N. without the $250k in debt. And when my hospital pays for the post-graduate degrees, it sure makes it easy to save up and open my own clinic. Am I going to be a surgeon? No, but I don't need to cut anyone open. Am I going to make just as much money with a wellness and dermatology center? Oh you bet your dimes I will. A smart "doctor" doesn't need to waste half of their life paying for a white coat. Lets be honest, 90% of patients do not care what your title is as long as you are capable of performing the job.
Click to expand...
Because owning your own practice doesn't seem stressful at all?
 
mcloaf said:
Tell us more about the burdens of success, oh wise not-yet-DNP.
Click to expand...
mcloaf said:
Tell us more about the burdens of success, oh wise not-yet-DNP.
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I don't need to be finished to recognize that the medical institution as you know it is being revolutionized by people like me. Instead of following old dogs why not fight for a better system? I smell fear.
 
SunsFun said:
I've heard a lot of anesthesiologists would rather work with PAs over NA precisely because of this militant attitude.
Click to expand...

Call me Sergeant Popa, since the idea of a qualified and strong nurse scares you.
 
DrMediterranean said:
They should be called doctor because they got a DOCTORAL degree! They earned it!!!!!!!!!!! GRRRRR
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Don't most hospitals keep lawyers on staff? When they are in the hospital, should they be referred to as "doctor" by the other staff because they have a J.D. (juris doctor)?
 
Alex Popa said:
I don't need to be finished to recognize that the medical institution as you know it is being revolutionized by people like me. Instead of following old dogs why not fight for a better system? I smell fear.
Click to expand...

The parts of medicine that interest me are not areas in which you'll be qualified, I have no fear of DNPs. And I agree with you that the future of medicine holds many changes.

Rather I was pointing out that as someone who hasn't even completed their degree there's really no need for the abrasive and condescending talk about success.
 
mcloaf said:
The parts of medicine that interest me are not areas in which you'll be qualified, I have no fear of DNPs. And I agree with you that the future of medicine holds many changes.

Rather I was pointing out that as someone who hasn't even completed their degree there's really no need for the abrasive and condescending talk about success.
Click to expand...

My attitude is, don't fight for the finish line, fight for what comes next. If all I stand for is becoming an DNP, instead of what I can achieve with it, then I might as well quit now. Success is a mindset first.
 
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My intention wasn't to anger anyone, but a lot of arguments were made blind, and mostly revolved around attacking the intellectual capacity of nurses. You forget who works in the trenches, and how many times their direct involvement affects a physician's achievement. We all know one good nurse can make or break a day in the hospital. Who watches for those small signs of something gone wrong? Nurses learn the human body through experience too. And a smart one listens to every word of rounds. NPs diagnose a patient before they ever see a surgeon. They are the equivalent of a general practitioner. If your issue is that nurses are not qualified to diagnose, that is where things are changing across the country with more and more universities increasing the demands of a practicing doctorate.
 
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Alex Popa said:
My intention wasn't to anger anyone, but a lot of arguments were made blind, and mostly revolved around attacking the intellectual capacity of nurses. You forget who works in the trenches, and how many times their direct involvement affects a physician's achievement. We all know one good nurse can make or break a day in the hospital. Who watches for those small signs of something gone wrong? Nurses learn the human body through experience too. And a smart one listens to every word of rounds. If your issue is that nurses are not qualified to diagnose, that is where things are changing across the country with more and more universities increasing the demands of a practicing doctorate.
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So you decided to necrobump a thread to issue a rambling rant?
 
Alex Popa said:
Message.
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😕 I'll make it clear. Whatever arguments/inner feelings etc. you have, was it really that necessary to search for a thread and bump it just to reignite the controversy that was ended a while ago?
 
\
Agent B said:
😕 I'll make it clear. Whatever arguments/inner feelings etc. you have, was it really that necessary to search for a thread and bump it just to reignite the controversy that was ended a while ago?
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Before you get your little panties in a bunch Mr. Know-it-All, I didn't "search" for this thread just to bump it. I think potential students are entitled to the question, and answers that don't revolve around tearing down DNPs just because someone disagrees with how much power they have. When it comes to making money, which is really what most college students care about, it is an equivalent profession with equal rights by Federal and State law.
 
Alex Popa said:
Call me Sergeant Popa, since the idea of a qualified and strong nurse scares you.
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So far your qualifications seem to include only the fact that you peaked in high school...

You honestly don't see how your comments to 2-year-old thread come across as insecure and just making excuses as to why nursing is a smarter move?
 
Alex Popa said:
My intention wasn't to anger anyone, but a lot of arguments were made blind, and mostly revolved around attacking the intellectual capacity of nurses. You forget who works in the trenches, and how many times their direct involvement affects a physician's achievement. We all know one good nurse can make or break a day in the hospital. Who watches for those small signs of something gone wrong? Nurses learn the human body through experience too. And a smart one listens to every word of rounds. NPs diagnose a patient before they ever see a surgeon. They are the equivalent of a general practitioner. If your issue is that nurses are not qualified to diagnose, that is where things are changing across the country with more and more universities increasing the demands of a practicing doctorate.
Click to expand...

When nurses go through 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school and 3 years of residency, then you can claim that they are equivalent.
A general practitioner completes about 20,000 hours of training whereas a DNP has a mere 3,000-5,000 hours.
25% of the training and you think they are equal? LOL please...


http://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/news/NP-Kit-FP-NP-UPDATED.pdf
 
I don't think anyone here doubted the intelligence or mission critical nature of nurses. People are only stating that they have a different roles on the medical team and that they do not have the same level of training that a physician receives once they are able to practice alone. A well seasoned nurse can know far more than a resident, but still cannot replace residents, just as residents cannot replace nurses.
 
Alex Popa said:
Frankly, I think the majority of you are self-glorified arseholes. My plan is to finish with DNP, which for the record will be a practicing diagnostic doctorate, and not a theoretical Ph.D. The success or capability of a DNP or MD is not a matter of program, hours, or clinical path alone. A lot of it has to do with an individual's intelligence and innate analytical ability. There are plenty of stupid MDs in America. Being a book worm, or able to study like no-one's bussiness does not somehow make you a God. I did 2 years of Bio, 2 years of Chem, 1 of Physics, finished Pre-Calculus, and had a near perfect SAT score in HIGH SCHOOL. Need I go into details of where I started college with my multiple AP courses? I also did my boyfriend's Med. School applications, which according to several interviews was his saving grace. He is now finishing his 3rd year, thanks, in part, to me. So why DNP and not MD? Because being an MD is not only considered one of the most stressful career choices, but because I will walk pretty in my Louboutin heels as an R.N. without the $250k in debt. And when my hospital pays for the post-graduate degrees, it sure makes it easy to save up and open my own clinic. Am I going to be a surgeon? No, but I don't need to cut anyone open. Am I going to make just as much money with a wellness and dermatology center? Oh you bet your dimes I will. A smart "doctor" doesn't need to waste half of their life paying for a white coat. Lets be honest, 90% of patients do not care what your title is as long as you are capable of performing the job.
Click to expand...

Ok I couldn't resist.

1. Please understand that physicians are the least likely of all proffesionals to default on their student loans.
2. Physicians land in the 95th percentile of salary earnings.
3. You really shouldn't get into health-care unless you want to help others...there are other jobs that pay alot more.
4. Why the animosity?
 
Alex Popa said:
Someone forgot that NPs can prescribe in all 50 states, and in over half, both class II and III without supervision.
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I didn't bring up prescribing rights.
GandalfTheWhite said:
When nurses go through 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school and 3 years of residency, then you can claim that they are equivalent.
A general practitioner completes about 20,000 hours of training whereas a DNP has a mere 3,000-5,000 hours.
25% of the training and you think they are equal? LOL please...


http://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/news/NP-Kit-FP-NP-UPDATED.pdf
Click to expand...
This is on point. The AAFP does it's best to not only defend our profession, but also promote the welfare of both the physician and his patients. This is a concrete comparison. The numbers don't lie.
 
Bacchus said:
I didn't bring up prescribing rights.

This is on point. The AAFP does it's best to not only defend our profession, but also promote the welfare of both the physician and his patients. This is a concrete comparison. The numbers don't lie.
Click to expand...

Before the troll claims that the PHYSICIAN source might be biased, I would like to point out that the data on the nurse practitioner and DNP numbers came from NP/DNP sources listed below:

Vanderbilt University Family Nurse Practitioner Program information, http://www.nursing.vanderbilt.edu/msn/fnp_plan.html, and the
Vanderbilt University School of Nursing Handbook 2009-2010, http://www.nursing.vanderbilt.edu/current/handbook.pdf (Accessed
January 2010).
 
Dear prospective MD, and DNP, and current MD and DNP...

I am a nurse. 15 years or so... 2 of the most recent years I've been practicing as a NP. Received my degree, DNP, from a brick and mortar university. 1500 clinical hours. ( Acute Care Emphasis) Took me 10 years of college. Why? Well, I had ambitions of going to medical school, so in addition to the credits for a BSN, I took the required 2 years of chemistry, 1 year of physics, 2 years of math. I graduated with my bachelors with 164 credits. I stuck with nursing for quite awhile and didn't go on to med school. Why? Well, because with some overtime, or what any med student or physician would equate to a regular work week, 70 to 80 hours, I was making 100k+ a year... At the age of 25. Life was good.

Fast forward 13 years of nursing experience, mostly in critical care. 26000 plus hours? I decided to goto NP school. Did any of that 13 years have to do with practicing medicine, or being a provider? Very little.

While working as a nurse, in a teaching, I often encountered medical resident's, who I thought I could run circles around. When an attending was scrutinizing and quizzing, even a 3rd year resident, I often piped up with an answer. I was all that and a bag of chip's, haha.

So, if you are still with me, where am I going with this?

Well, for starter, I'm a Doctor. Laughably, I suppose. But that's what my degree says, with all rights priveledges, from a prestigious university.

Do I allow my patients to address me as such. Well, if they do, I make sure they know I am a nurse practitioner, and not a physician, explain the differences, etc etc. After that, if they continue to call me doc... Whatever, it's their choice, I have better things to spend my lecture time on.

So onto the more sensitive topics. Am I equal to a physician? Certainly not. In medicine, and nature, we need a specific hierarchy, to relate to and to judge. So again, I am not equal to a physician. I did not spend the rigorous time in medical school, nor was I required to do the laborious residency. I don't have the experience with the extensive list of zebra diagnosis, or even differential diagnosis list to come up with for every patient encounter.

Can I practice like a physician? Well, I would like to think so, but on principle alone. I practice to what I know, and try to expand on that everyday. I keep well within my limits, and as often as I can, I consult and I refer. I would hope that my physician counterparts would do the same.

Two years into my practice, I stress everyday, that any treatment I may render may cause harm to my patients. Without the ability to consult or refer to an experienced physician, I am certain that I would have already had a serious adverse outcome in my practice.

So does my "holistic approach" make up for the physician knowledge in my practice? Nope. Not even close.

Where I went to school, there was no holistic nursing theory, patient interaction... Or what I refer to as garbage taught. These life skills can not be quantified, or taught, they come with experience. Sometimes professional, sometimes personal. My physician counterparts continue to amaze me in their holistic approach to life, patients, and healing. As far as I can tell, the art of caring that nursing needs to quantify their existence with, goes far beyond nursing into all allied health professions, and especially medicine.

Am I mid level provider, or physician extender? Well, I suppose as a nurse the term mid level, gets to me. If I'm a mid level provider, does that make a RN a low level provider? Or an LPN an ultra low level provider? Or a CNA or MA, pond scum? Everybody needs to be put in their place in the hierarchy, so we can relate to them and identify and label them as such. Our prejudice society must continue.

Advanced practice clinician sounds better to me. It identifies me as someone who knows what they are doing, doesn't have the title of "nurse" which automatically denotes me as knowing nothing, and doesn't place me in the known hierarchy of the general public.

So what to I hope to accomplish with this post? Hopefully, some insight into my profession for those that are considering the DNP. Maybe some insight for MD's that wonder what DNP's are thinking and doing. I know a lot, I contribute a lot, all within my little realm. Will a DNP ever be equal to a MD, or DO? Well, like the doctors of osteopath can attest to, if DNP become aligned more to medicine, with a background in hard sciences, and the equivalent residency, DNP's stand a greater chance. Ultimately, The question encompasses so much more than just the professions. It has an much more to do with gender equality, and the perception of nursing that exists in our culture and with the public.

I don't think any of that will change in my lifetime, and I haven't reached 40. Until it does, I am happy to be part of a collaborative and physician lead healthcare team, where I may contribute what I can to my patients, and the community.

Fire away everyone... This will certainly infuriate the masses, on both sides.
 
epiphani38 said:
Dear prospective MD, and DNP, and current MD and DNP...

I am a nurse. 15 years or so... 2 of the most recent years I've been practicing as a NP. Received my degree, DNP, from a brick and mortar university. 1500 clinical hours. ( Acute Care Emphasis) Took me 10 years of college. Why? Well, I had ambitions of going to medical school, so in addition to the credits for a BSN, I took the required 2 years of chemistry, 1 year of physics, 2 years of math. I graduated with my bachelors with 164 credits. I stuck with nursing for quite awhile and didn't go on to med school. Why? Well, because with some overtime, or what any med student or physician would equate to a regular work week, 70 to 80 hours, I was making 100k+ a year... At the age of 25. Life was good.

Fast forward 13 years of nursing experience, mostly in critical care. 26000 plus hours? I decided to goto NP school. Did any of that 13 years have to do with practicing medicine, or being a provider? Very little.

While working as a nurse, in a teaching, I often encountered medical resident's, who I thought I could run circles around. When an attending was scrutinizing and quizzing, even a 3rd year resident, I often piped up with an answer. I was all that and a bag of chip's, haha.

So, if you are still with me, where am I going with this?

Well, for starter, I'm a Doctor. Laughably, I suppose. But that's what my degree says, with all rights priveledges, from a prestigious university.

Do I allow my patients to address me as such. Well, if they do, I make sure they know I am a nurse practitioner, and not a physician, explain the differences, etc etc. After that, if they continue to call me doc... Whatever, it's their choice, I have better things to spend my lecture time on.

So onto the more sensitive topics. Am I equal to a physician? Certainly not. In medicine, and nature, we need a specific hierarchy, to relate to and to judge. So again, I am not equal to a physician. I did not spend the rigorous time in medical school, nor was I required to do the laborious residency. I don't have the experience with the extensive list of zebra diagnosis, or even differential diagnosis list to come up with for every patient encounter.

Can I practice like a physician? Well, I would like to think so, but on principle alone. I practice to what I know, and try to expand on that everyday. I keep well within my limits, and as often as I can, I consult and I refer. I would hope that my physician counterparts would do the same.

Two years into my practice, I stress everyday, that any treatment I may render may cause harm to my patients. Without the ability to consult or refer to an experienced physician, I am certain that I would have already had a serious adverse outcome in my practice.

So does my "holistic approach" make up for the physician knowledge in my practice? Nope. Not even close.

Where I went to school, there was no holistic nursing theory, patient interaction... Or what I refer to as garbage taught. These life skills can not be quantified, or taught, they come with experience. Sometimes professional, sometimes personal. My physician counterparts continue to amaze me in their holistic approach to life, patients, and healing. As far as I can tell, the art of caring that nursing needs to quantify their existence with, goes far beyond nursing into all allied health professions, and especially medicine.

Am I mid level provider, or physician extender? Well, I suppose as a nurse the term mid level, gets to me. If I'm a mid level provider, does that make a RN a low level provider? Or an LPN an ultra low level provider? Or a CNA or MA, pond scum? Everybody needs to be put in their place in the hierarchy, so we can relate to them and identify and label them as such. Our prejudice society must continue.

Advanced practice clinician sounds better to me. It identifies me as someone who knows what they are doing, doesn't have the title of "nurse" which automatically denotes me as knowing nothing, and doesn't place me in the known hierarchy of the general public.

So what to I hope to accomplish with this post? Hopefully, some insight into my profession for those that are considering the DNP. Maybe some insight for MD's that wonder what DNP's are thinking and doing. I know a lot, I contribute a lot, all within my little realm. Will a DNP ever be equal to a MD, or DO? Well, like the doctors of osteopath can attest to, if DNP become aligned more to medicine, with a background in hard sciences, and the equivalent residency, DNP's stand a greater chance. Ultimately, The question encompasses so much more than just the professions. It has an much more to do with gender equality, and the perception of nursing that exists in our culture and with the public.

I don't think any of that will change in my lifetime, and I haven't reached 40. Until it does, I am happy to be part of a collaborative and physician lead healthcare team, where I may contribute what I can to my patients, and the community.

Fire away everyone... This will certainly infuriate the masses, on both sides.
Click to expand...

Oh great. Strong 1st post to reignite the flame.
 
epiphani38 said:
Dear prospective MD, and DNP, and current MD and DNP...

I am a nurse. 15 years or so... 2 of the most recent years I've been practicing as a NP. Received my degree, DNP, from a brick and mortar university. 1500 clinical hours. ( Acute Care Emphasis) Took me 10 years of college. Why? Well, I had ambitions of going to medical school, so in addition to the credits for a BSN, I took the required 2 years of chemistry, 1 year of physics, 2 years of math. I graduated with my bachelors with 164 credits. I stuck with nursing for quite awhile and didn't go on to med school. Why? Well, because with some overtime, or what any med student or physician would equate to a regular work week, 70 to 80 hours, I was making 100k+ a year... At the age of 25. Life was good.

Fast forward 13 years of nursing experience, mostly in critical care. 26000 plus hours? I decided to goto NP school. Did any of that 13 years have to do with practicing medicine, or being a provider? Very little.

While working as a nurse, in a teaching, I often encountered medical resident's, who I thought I could run circles around. When an attending was scrutinizing and quizzing, even a 3rd year resident, I often piped up with an answer. I was all that and a bag of chip's, haha.

So, if you are still with me, where am I going with this?

Well, for starter, I'm a Doctor. Laughably, I suppose. But that's what my degree says, with all rights priveledges, from a prestigious university.

Do I allow my patients to address me as such. Well, if they do, I make sure they know I am a nurse practitioner, and not a physician, explain the differences, etc etc. After that, if they continue to call me doc... Whatever, it's their choice, I have better things to spend my lecture time on.

So onto the more sensitive topics. Am I equal to a physician? Certainly not. In medicine, and nature, we need a specific hierarchy, to relate to and to judge. So again, I am not equal to a physician. I did not spend the rigorous time in medical school, nor was I required to do the laborious residency. I don't have the experience with the extensive list of zebra diagnosis, or even differential diagnosis list to come up with for every patient encounter.

Can I practice like a physician? Well, I would like to think so, but on principle alone. I practice to what I know, and try to expand on that everyday. I keep well within my limits, and as often as I can, I consult and I refer. I would hope that my physician counterparts would do the same.

Two years into my practice, I stress everyday, that any treatment I may render may cause harm to my patients. Without the ability to consult or refer to an experienced physician, I am certain that I would have already had a serious adverse outcome in my practice.

So does my "holistic approach" make up for the physician knowledge in my practice? Nope. Not even close.

Where I went to school, there was no holistic nursing theory, patient interaction... Or what I refer to as garbage taught. These life skills can not be quantified, or taught, they come with experience. Sometimes professional, sometimes personal. My physician counterparts continue to amaze me in their holistic approach to life, patients, and healing. As far as I can tell, the art of caring that nursing needs to quantify their existence with, goes far beyond nursing into all allied health professions, and especially medicine.

Am I mid level provider, or physician extender? Well, I suppose as a nurse the term mid level, gets to me. If I'm a mid level provider, does that make a RN a low level provider? Or an LPN an ultra low level provider? Or a CNA or MA, pond scum? Everybody needs to be put in their place in the hierarchy, so we can relate to them and identify and label them as such. Our prejudice society must continue.

Advanced practice clinician sounds better to me. It identifies me as someone who knows what they are doing, doesn't have the title of "nurse" which automatically denotes me as knowing nothing, and doesn't place me in the known hierarchy of the general public.

So what to I hope to accomplish with this post? Hopefully, some insight into my profession for those that are considering the DNP. Maybe some insight for MD's that wonder what DNP's are thinking and doing. I know a lot, I contribute a lot, all within my little realm. Will a DNP ever be equal to a MD, or DO? Well, like the doctors of osteopath can attest to, if DNP become aligned more to medicine, with a background in hard sciences, and the equivalent residency, DNP's stand a greater chance. Ultimately, The question encompasses so much more than just the professions. It has an much more to do with gender equality, and the perception of nursing that exists in our culture and with the public.

I don't think any of that will change in my lifetime, and I haven't reached 40. Until it does, I am happy to be part of a collaborative and physician lead healthcare team, where I may contribute what I can to my patients, and the community.

Fire away everyone... This will certainly infuriate the masses, on both sides.
Click to expand...
What's the purpose of this post?
 
Bacchus said:
NPs can have autonomy when they complete the same requirements as me and my peers. Until then, no.

~700 clinical hours vs. 10000. Hmmm.
Click to expand...

Cinclus said:
April 1st is almost over, thank goodness. It's mad craziness all over the forums today.
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It really angers me to see moderators speaking like this. You guys have a responsibility on sdn - you should be providing guidance, not putting people and professions down. I know NPs that go toe-2toe with physicians and provide the same quality of care - you are sorely mistaken if you think NPs aren't quality practitioners. Who gives you the right to talk down to people like this... smh
 
epiphani38 said:
Dear prospective MD, and DNP, and current MD and DNP...

I am a nurse. 15 years or so... 2 of the most recent years I've been practicing as a NP. Received my degree, DNP, from a brick and mortar university. 1500 clinical hours. ( Acute Care Emphasis) Took me 10 years of college. Why? Well, I had ambitions of going to medical school, so in addition to the credits for a BSN, I took the required 2 years of chemistry, 1 year of physics, 2 years of math. I graduated with my bachelors with 164 credits. I stuck with nursing for quite awhile and didn't go on to med school. Why? Well, because with some overtime, or what any med student or physician would equate to a regular work week, 70 to 80 hours, I was making 100k+ a year... At the age of 25. Life was good.

Fast forward 13 years of nursing experience, mostly in critical care. 26000 plus hours? I decided to goto NP school. Did any of that 13 years have to do with practicing medicine, or being a provider? Very little.

While working as a nurse, in a teaching, I often encountered medical resident's, who I thought I could run circles around. When an attending was scrutinizing and quizzing, even a 3rd year resident, I often piped up with an answer. I was all that and a bag of chip's, haha.

So, if you are still with me, where am I going with this?

Well, for starter, I'm a Doctor. Laughably, I suppose. But that's what my degree says, with all rights priveledges, from a prestigious university.

Do I allow my patients to address me as such. Well, if they do, I make sure they know I am a nurse practitioner, and not a physician, explain the differences, etc etc. After that, if they continue to call me doc... Whatever, it's their choice, I have better things to spend my lecture time on.

So onto the more sensitive topics. Am I equal to a physician? Certainly not. In medicine, and nature, we need a specific hierarchy, to relate to and to judge. So again, I am not equal to a physician. I did not spend the rigorous time in medical school, nor was I required to do the laborious residency. I don't have the experience with the extensive list of zebra diagnosis, or even differential diagnosis list to come up with for every patient encounter.

Can I practice like a physician? Well, I would like to think so, but on principle alone. I practice to what I know, and try to expand on that everyday. I keep well within my limits, and as often as I can, I consult and I refer. I would hope that my physician counterparts would do the same.

Two years into my practice, I stress everyday, that any treatment I may render may cause harm to my patients. Without the ability to consult or refer to an experienced physician, I am certain that I would have already had a serious adverse outcome in my practice.

So does my "holistic approach" make up for the physician knowledge in my practice? Nope. Not even close.

Where I went to school, there was no holistic nursing theory, patient interaction... Or what I refer to as garbage taught. These life skills can not be quantified, or taught, they come with experience. Sometimes professional, sometimes personal. My physician counterparts continue to amaze me in their holistic approach to life, patients, and healing. As far as I can tell, the art of caring that nursing needs to quantify their existence with, goes far beyond nursing into all allied health professions, and especially medicine.

Am I mid level provider, or physician extender? Well, I suppose as a nurse the term mid level, gets to me. If I'm a mid level provider, does that make a RN a low level provider? Or an LPN an ultra low level provider? Or a CNA or MA, pond scum? Everybody needs to be put in their place in the hierarchy, so we can relate to them and identify and label them as such. Our prejudice society must continue.

Advanced practice clinician sounds better to me. It identifies me as someone who knows what they are doing, doesn't have the title of "nurse" which automatically denotes me as knowing nothing, and doesn't place me in the known hierarchy of the general public.

So what to I hope to accomplish with this post? Hopefully, some insight into my profession for those that are considering the DNP. Maybe some insight for MD's that wonder what DNP's are thinking and doing. I know a lot, I contribute a lot, all within my little realm. Will a DNP ever be equal to a MD, or DO? Well, like the doctors of osteopath can attest to, if DNP become aligned more to medicine, with a background in hard sciences, and the equivalent residency, DNP's stand a greater chance. Ultimately, The question encompasses so much more than just the professions. It has an much more to do with gender equality, and the perception of nursing that exists in our culture and with the public.

I don't think any of that will change in my lifetime, and I haven't reached 40. Until it does, I am happy to be part of a collaborative and physician lead healthcare team, where I may contribute what I can to my patients, and the community.

Fire away everyone... This will certainly infuriate the masses, on both sides.
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george-bush-gif.gif
 
Agent B said:
😕 I'll make it clear. Whatever arguments/inner feelings etc. you have, was it really that necessary to search for a thread and bump it just to reignite the controversy that was ended a while ago?
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Ah, nothing to argue about within my post, so argue the basis and the premise to invalidate it altogether. Nicely done. To the prior posts... My intentions were stated within the post, and that's why I invoked sarcasm, to say that my only intent is to fan the flames of a dead argument and beaten horse.

Again, my purpose was to give insight into my profession, my background, my thoughts and experiences within the realm as a nurse practitioner. Take from it what you want. Argue the merits, not the fact that a logically in biased post from one side may actually have logical and personal points.
 
This is a forum for people who want to be actual doctors. Sorry if we're not too keen on other people coming in and pretending to be us.
 
Psai said:
This is a forum for people who want to be actual doctors. Sorry if we're not too keen on other people coming in and pretending to be us.[/quote

No pretending to be a physician. Clearly outlined in my post.
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epiphani38 said:
Ah, nothing to argue about within my post, so argue the basis and the premise to invalidate it altogether. Nicely done. To the prior posts... My intentions were stated within the post, and that's why I invoked sarcasm, to say that my only intent is to fan the flames of a dead argument and beaten horse.

Again, my purpose was to give insight into my profession, my background, my thoughts and experiences within the realm as a nurse practitioner. Take from it what you want. Argue the merits, not the fact that a logically in biased post from one side may actually have logical and personal points.
Click to expand...

The thread was dead for a month, and you registered to revive and state your personal views. From that point, there isn't any reason for any of us to read your dissertation because all your arguments are countered in the early posts in this thread.
 
Could be, I am just opening dialogue to thoughts and perspective between the professions. Rather than anyone thinking that I am creating a riot.
 
J Senpai said:
Oh, in that case. I'm looking forward to your becoming a valuable and supportive member of our community.Welcome!

Sarcasm, b*tch.
Click to expand...

And prior posts suggest, that a NP couldn't stand toe to toe with a physician, hahahaha.

Granted I don't have the educational equivalence of pre med, med students have... I have the "street smarts", (snicker) or life experiences to render a great deal of sarcasm, and dry humor.... Of that, at least some "student doctor network" personas have not experienced. Of course, consider this just a taste of the bitter "hagatha nurses" you will have to deal with during your residencies.
 
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