Mandatory HPV Vaccination

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Glowwyrm

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I don't know how many people outside of Tx know this, but our Govenor has made it mandatory, starting next year, that all middle school aged girls receive the HPV vaccine. Merck threw a bunch of money at Texas and Gov. Perry, being the puppet he is, decided to make the HPV shot mandatory.

I think it's a great idea in theory. However, this is a very new vaccine and to make it mandatory when it just barely hit the market is really jumping the gun. Parents can sign an affidavit saying that it is against their religion in order to avoid their child receiving the mandatory vaccination. Vaccination is a real step in wiping out HPV for good. However, as a parent of a middle school girl, I won't be jumping on the HPV vaccine bandwagon and blindly marching my daughter into the Drs office to receive a brand new vaccine. I'd really like to hear other people's thoughts on this.
 
A major issue with the HPV vaccine is cost. It'll cost close to $400 for the series, and some of the insurances are not completely covering it because the CDC lists it as recommended and not required.
 
A major issue with the HPV vaccine is cost. It'll cost close to $400 for the series, and some of the insurances are not completely covering it because the CDC lists it as recommended and not required.

I think the American Academy of Pediatrics put it on their list of routinely administered vaccines during childhood.

I've found every insurance I've had reason to bill has covered it. But, I've not had a Medicaid pt yet - not surprising since most of them get their routine vaccines thru county clinics or Planned Parenthood. So, I don't know if Medicaid pays yet.

But....the copay is like a tier 3 - anywhere from $25 - 55, unless they have to satisfy a deductible - which this does in a flash.

I'm all for it. I gave it to my daughter (she'll be 24 in a few days). Its funny - I gave the first dose, but the subsequent doses were going to be a problem since she's on the other coast. So...I told her to ask one of her MSII buddies to see if he'll give it (they all learned injection technique last summer). He laughed & said he had most of the girls in the class ask him if he'd give them the injection - he must be good!

Anyway...yes - I'm in favor of it. It may have just "hit the market", but check out the numbers of studies & see for yourself.
 
I can't help but have the same hesitation as Glowwyrm. In theory mandatory HPV vaccination is a good idea. However, certain things must be taken into consideration. As I recall certain drugs, such as Seldane, Vioxx, Duract, Pondamin, and Baycol were recalled not long after they were touted as miracle drugs. Unfortunately, harm was incurred by the population before their removal. The HPV vaccine has only been tested in one sex of the population and it has not been tested in conjuction with other vaccines. Most curious is the fact that Governor Rick Perry recently received 6 million dollars from Merck Pharmaceuticals (the creator of Gardasil) for his reelection campaign of 2006.
 
Most curious is the fact that Governor Rick Perry recently received 6 million dollars from Merck Pharmaceuticals (the creator of Gardasil) for his reelection campaign of 2006.

Don't even get me started on that :laugh:
 
The Ethics and Politics of Compulsory HPV Vaccination
James Colgrove, Ph.D., M.P.H.


On September 12, 2006, 3 months after the Food and Drug Administration licensed a vaccine against human papillomavirus (HPV), Michigan lawmakers became the first in the United States to propose that vaccination be compulsory for girls entering sixth grade. Parents who objected would be able to opt out of the requirement under the same provisions that apply to other vaccinations. The bill passed the state senate by an overwhelming margin a week later and awaits consideration by the house. Other states are likely to follow Michigan's lead.

The development of Gardasil, Merck's HPV vaccine, is of major public health importance. The vaccine protects against four strains of HPV, the most common sexually transmitted disease in the United States, including the two strains that cause most cases of cervical cancer. More than 6 million people in this country become infected with HPV every year, and nearly 10,000 women are diagnosed with cervical cancer. Because the vaccine has the greatest benefit when it is given before a person becomes sexually active, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommended that it be given routinely to girls at 11 or 12 years of age; it is not yet approved for use in boys. The committee took no position on whether vaccination should be required by law; such policy decisions are made by individual states.


Moves to make the vaccine compulsory are sure to ignite a new round of polarizing debates. Controversy over the product began before it was licensed, when some religious conservatives expressed concern that the availability of a vaccine against a sexually transmitted disease would undermine abstinence-based prevention messages. Advocacy groups such as Focus on the Family ultimately came to support availability of the vaccine, but they remain opposed to mandating its use. In their view, such a requirement constitutes an attempt by the secular state to force a child to undergo an intervention that may be irreconcilable with her family's religious values and beliefs.

It is a mistake, however, to view the contrasting stances on HPV-vaccine mandates as solely, or even primarily, evidence of a conflict between science and religion. A more complicated dynamic will shape the ongoing discussion.

On one side, support for legal requirements is strongly influenced by the perception of HPV as a women's health issue. The severe consequences that the disease may have for women lends urgency to the effort to maximize use of the vaccine through all policy means, including mandates. Women in Government, a Washington-based, bipartisan organization of female legislators, is leading a push to make HPV vaccination compulsory in every state. The group has issued recommendations for ensuring that the vaccine is accessible and affordable, including a recommendation that states add it to their Medicaid programs and encourage private health plans to cover it. The group follows in the tradition of breast-cancer activists, who have mobilized through many political channels to combat an illness that disproportionately burdens women.

On the other side, opposition to mandates will come from a far wider range of constituencies than just religious conservatives worried about threats to teenagers' sexual abstinence. Vaccine requirements — even generally well-accepted laws covering "classic" childhood diseases such as polio, measles, and pertussis — have been resisted in recent years on a wide range of philosophical, political, scientific, and ideological grounds.

During the past two decades, in the face of a sharp increase in the number of recommended pediatric vaccines, unproven theories alleging connections between vaccines and illnesses including autism, diabetes, and multiple sclerosis have been spreading. A social movement involving diverse participants has challenged the safety of vaccination and mounted attacks in courtrooms and legislatures on compulsory vaccination laws. Forty-eight states allow parents who object to vaccination on religious grounds to excuse their children from requirements, and 20 of those states also allow exemptions for parents who have secular philosophical concerns.1 Approximately 1 to 3% of U.S. children are excused by their parents from vaccine requirements, though the rate varies from state to state; schools in a few communities have exemption rates as high as 15 to 20%. Activists have sought to liberalize the circumstances under which parents may opt out of vaccine requirements, a trend that reflects the wide variation in people's reasons for rejecting vaccines: devotion to "natural" or alternative healing, libertarian opposition to state power, mistrust of pharmaceutical companies, belief that vaccines are not as safe as experts claim, and conviction that children receive more shots than are good for them.2

Laws making vaccination compulsory raise unique ethical and policy issues. High levels of herd immunity protect all members of the community, including those who cannot receive vaccines because of medical contraindications. This protection provides a justification for compulsion. The availability of religious or philosophical exemptions mitigates concern about governmental intrusion on individual decision making. Opinions vary, however, about the permissible scope of exemptions. Data show that schools with exemption rates as low as 2 to 4% are at increased risk for disease outbreaks and that children who have been exempted from vaccine requirements have a much greater risk of acquiring infectious diseases than their vaccinated peers.1 Minors have a right to be protected against vaccine-preventable illness, and society has an interest in safeguarding the welfare of children who may be harmed by the choices of their parents or guardians.

Bioethicists, who generally hold the values of patient autonomy and informed consent to be preeminent, tend to be skeptical about compulsory vaccination laws. Not surprisingly, some have expressed wariness about or opposition to mandating HPV vaccination.3,4 Because HPV is not casually transmissible, they argue, there is a less compelling rationale for requiring protection against it than against measles or pertussis, for instance; in the absence of potential harm to a third party, such laws may be considered unacceptably paternalistic. Similar concerns have been raised about school-based requirements for vaccination against hepatitis B: because the virus spreads primarily among sexually active people and injection-drug users, some parents argued that the vaccine should be given only to those groups rather than to all children. Such targeting of the vaccine, however, proved to be less effective than universal vaccination in reducing the incidence of the disease.

A large body of evidence demonstrates that school-based laws are an effective and efficient way of boosting vaccine-coverage rates. Requiring HPV vaccination by law will almost certainly achieve more widespread protection against the disease than will policies that rely exclusively on persuasion and education. In the view of advocates, this effectiveness provides a clear justification. "The only way to ensure that as many girls as possible receive the HPV vaccine is to require it before they enter middle school," said Beverly Hammerstrom, the Michigan state senator who introduced the legislation. Whether such a mandate might extend to boys, should the product be approved for such use, remains uncertain.

A critical question is whether achieving a higher level of coverage justifies the infringement on parental autonomy that compulsory vaccination inevitably entails. Different ethical frameworks that accord varying weights to communitarian and individualistic values will lead to contrasting answers to this question.

Ethical and epidemiologic analyses are essential to decisions about mandating the HPV vaccine; so are political calculations. Any new vaccine that a state adds to its list of requirements must be judged in the context of both the increasingly lengthy and complex regimen of vaccines that children now receive and the possibility that additional mandates may inflame grassroots opposition, be it religious, philosophical, or ideological.5 Although issues of religion and adolescent sexuality have dominated the discussion, the move to require HPV vaccination raises broad questions about the acceptability of mandatory public health measures, the scope of parental autonomy, and the role of political advocacy in determining how preventive health measures are implemented.
 
I can't help but have the same hesitation as Glowwyrm. In theory mandatory HPV vaccination is a good idea. However, certain things must be taken into consideration. As I recall certain drugs, such as Seldane, Vioxx, Duract, Pondamin, and Baycol were recalled not long after they were touted as miracle drugs. Unfortunately, harm was incurred by the population before their removal. The HPV vaccine has only been tested in one sex of the population and it has not been tested in conjuction with other vaccines. Most curious is the fact that Governor Rick Perry recently received 6 million dollars from Merck Pharmaceuticals (the creator of Gardasil) for his reelection campaign of 2006.

All political considerations aside - which in & of themselves are highly suspect - the HPV vaccine has not been tested in only one sex.

In fact, Gardisil is currently undergoing testing in boys & men, specifically to investigate the associate with HPV infection & the occurrence of penile & anal cancer. We already know that men are one source of infection of women. This infection is a major cause of cervical cancer - why would we not vaccinate?????

This vaccine is just to prevent the infection of only 4 of the many HPV vaccines which have shown to be causative in cervical cancer. There are at least 8 or 9 which have been identified so far.

The vaccine - Cerivax by GSK has been tested in both men & women & will probably be indicated for both - which is actually the best option, however, Gardisil beat it to the market. We don't expect Cerivax to be approved until late this year.

Your assertion that those drugs you mentioned were "miracle" drugs is wong - they were "me too" drugs & yes, they were recalled due to post marketing survelliance. This vaccine is entirely new - which can certainly cause concern among some folks.

However...these are vaccines - they stimulate the body's immune response. If you had made the case of the "old" pertussis vaccine - which is a valid concern - your argument may have had some pharmacologic merit. But - in the decades since the old pertussis vaccine, we have learned a lot about how the body's immune system is stimulated & the problems associated with the making of a vaccine. We know that the administration of one vaccine does not preclude the adminstration of another - we may need to delay immunization, but it does not prevent administration of others.

We've had many, many new vaccines which no one ever questioned in the last few years - varicella, varicella zoster, Adacel. Varicella is a standard childhood vaccine now and Zostavax is becoming recommended as frequently in the >60 yo population as often as Pneumovax.

This one is just so tied up with the fact that you can only acquire HPV with sexual contact - that is concerning among some of the population.

Most every state & school district has the option of parents who can "opt out" of childhood vaccines. However....over the life of my career, I've only seen active pertussis in the last 10 years & measles in the last 15 - about the time people were becoming worried about the impact vaccines had on their children. The increasing incidence of illnesses which we can vaccinate against is a concern among public health workers.

If you are worried about the issue as a parent - you have to make your very best choice at the time you are making it. Fortunately, the "window" is currently 26 yo - well past the time women are influenced by their parents & studies are undergoing to test it in older women in which it may be indicated.

Everyone needs to make their own choice - IMO - its best made on real, documented information - not that which is presented in newspapers & sound bites of TV or internet. I'd agree with you that a politician should not make a decision if he/she has had any political or monetary influence.

Really - I'd encourage everyone to look at the studies - read them & decide - what if this was your wife????

It does not encourage promiscuity - but, your concern about vaccine related injury is valid & can easily be followed by seeking out post marketing studies, which I'd encourage everyone who is at all interested to follow. There's plenty of time in which to make an informed decision.
 
It does not encourage promiscuity - but, your concern about vaccine related injury is valid & can easily be followed by seeking out post marketing studies, which I'd encourage everyone who is at all interested to follow. There's plenty of time in which to make an informed decision.

but what if it causes autisim in my child?!? 🙄 😴
 
I can't help but have the same hesitation as Glowwyrm. In theory mandatory HPV vaccination is a good idea. However, certain things must be taken into consideration. As I recall certain drugs, such as Seldane, Vioxx, Duract, Pondamin, and Baycol were recalled not long after they were touted as miracle drugs. Unfortunately, harm was incurred by the population before their removal. The HPV vaccine has only been tested in one sex of the population and it has not been tested in conjuction with other vaccines. Most curious is the fact that Governor Rick Perry recently received 6 million dollars from Merck Pharmaceuticals (the creator of Gardasil) for his reelection campaign of 2006.

$6,000, not $6,000,000

source
 
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I'm all for it. Not because of my political affiliation nor the fact Governor Perry is a good Aggie. In fact, it doesn't even matter this has been spearheaded by Merck. HBV is a very prevalent STD and any vaccine that can protect my children and the children of our state is a good thing.

Granted, Gardasil may only be 70% effective but heck why not.

Good Job Rick Perry.

👍
 
I stand corrected, the amount of political contribution from Merck to Gov. Rick Perry's campaign was 6 thousand not 6 million I apologize for the misinformation. However, it's naive to believe that 6 thousand dollars is all Rick Perry received from Merck. The heart of this issue isn't Gardasil or Cerivax. It's the fact that the taxpayers of Texas are being forced to do business with a pharmaceutical company that at present has questionable ethics with respect to how they present their data (ie., Vioxx). The governor would have better served the constituency of Texas by mandating that the state medicaid system pay for HPV vaccine and leave the decision of vaccination to the parents. In failing to do such a thing, the governor leaves a cloud of doubt about whether his decison was based on scientific data or mere politics.
There is no question that this vaccine may be incredibly beneficial, but the means by which it is being mandated are suspicious.
 
I stand corrected, the amount of political contribution from Merck to Gov. Rick Perry's campaign was 6 thousand not 6 million I apologize for the misinformation. However, it's naive to believe that 6 thousand dollars is all Rick Perry received from Merck. The heart of this issue isn't Gardasil or Cerivax. It's the fact that the taxpayers of Texas are being forced to do business with a pharmaceutical company that at present has questionable ethics with respect to how they present their data (ie., Vioxx). The governor would have better served the constituency of Texas by mandating that the state medicaid system pay for HPV vaccine and leave the decision of vaccination to the parents. In failing to do such a thing, the governor leaves a cloud of doubt about whether his decison was based on scientific data or mere politics.
There is no question that this vaccine may be incredibly beneficial, but the means by which it is being mandated are suspicious.

You have a very valid point!
 
I stand corrected, the amount of political contribution from Merck to Gov. Rick Perry's campaign was 6 thousand not 6 million I apologize for the misinformation. However, it's naive to believe that 6 thousand dollars is all Rick Perry received from Merck. The heart of this issue isn't Gardasil or Cerivax. It's the fact that the taxpayers of Texas are being forced to do business with a pharmaceutical company that at present has questionable ethics with respect to how they present their data (ie., Vioxx). The governor would have better served the constituency of Texas by mandating that the state medicaid system pay for HPV vaccine and leave the decision of vaccination to the parents. In failing to do such a thing, the governor leaves a cloud of doubt about whether his decison was based on scientific data or mere politics.
There is no question that this vaccine may be incredibly beneficial, but the means by which it is being mandated are suspicious.

Couldn't have said it better myself. That's exactly how I feel about this situation.
 
I stand corrected, the amount of political contribution from Merck to Gov. Rick Perry's campaign was 6 thousand not 6 million I apologize for the misinformation. However, it's naive to believe that 6 thousand dollars is all Rick Perry received from Merck. The heart of this issue isn't Gardasil or Cerivax. It's the fact that the taxpayers of Texas are being forced to do business with a pharmaceutical company that at present has questionable ethics with respect to how they present their data (ie., Vioxx). The governor would have better served the constituency of Texas by mandating that the state medicaid system pay for HPV vaccine and leave the decision of vaccination to the parents. In failing to do such a thing, the governor leaves a cloud of doubt about whether his decison was based on scientific data or mere politics.
There is no question that this vaccine may be incredibly beneficial, but the means by which it is being mandated are suspicious.

Agreed, but parents' can opt out, which by the way will cover the state's ass if Gardisil turns out to be another Vioxx.
 
I'm rotating at an HIV clinic right now, and there's been a lot of discussion concerning the HPV vaccination in HIV+ men who are at high risk for anal cancer. I think the numbers were comparable to women pre-pap smear days of getting cervical cancer (40 in 100,000) vs current HIV+ men of getting anal cancer (35 in 100,000). Some physicians have already been using it off label in these patients, although our physicians are waiting for some published results to see how it's being done. I've gotten to help out freezing the warts with liquid nitrogen.

It'll be interesting to see how things develop.
 
Agreed, but parents' can opt out, which by the way will cover the state's ass if Gardisil turns out to be another Vioxx.

This is my only real concern. I know that there have been large, randomized trials of Gardisil already, but I'm sure the same could be said of the rotavirus vaccine that was pulled off the market about 6 years ago due to the side effect of intestinal intussuption (sp?). Sometimes it's just extremely difficult to pick up unusual side effects until the drug or vaccine is used in the general population. Fortunately, my two girls are not old enough yet to get the vaccine, and I will feel more comfortable once we have several years of general population use without problems. I would personally not have it administered to my children right now.
 
It's so funny that I came across this thread today because I was just talking to my beautician about this new vaccine. I personally do not have any children yet, but I disagree with the mandate. I just cannot reconcile my moral beliefs with vaccinating 11 year old children against an STD. IMO this is just another reflection of how our values have changed (for the worst) in society. I realize that cervical cancer is very serious, and this vaccine's ability to eradicate the disease is a wonderful thing. However, if and when I have daughters I would rather emphasize a sense of self respect and morality. When they reach the age of 18, then they will be able to make a decision for themselves as to whether they choose to be vaccinated. Until then, I will definitely be opting out.
 
Your daughter is going to start having sex whenever she decides to start having sex (which could be long before she turns 18), and I find it hard to believe that a vaccination against a virus that causes a deadly cancer is going to send the wrong message. I wonder how I would feel as a parent if my teenager contracted HPV, and I could have prevented it.
 
I'm not sure it should be mandatory, but the education campaign should be thoughtful and relentless. I think HPV is different from something really virulent like measles or pertussis - and I agree with those vaccinations being mandatory.

If I had a daughter, she would be vaccinated. And along with the vaccination, I would take the opportunity to explain what she was being vaccinated against and why, which would lead into talk about STDs in general and ways she can keep from contracting them - including abstinence. She'd hate getting a presentation like that from her Dad, but hopefully she'd thank me later.
 
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To opt out one must file an affadavit indicating the religious or philisophical objections one has to the vaccine. I think this is a little ridiculous. Who determines what is an "acceptable" objection? Shouldn't one be able to opt out for whatever personal reason they had?
 
However....over the life of my career, I've only seen active pertussis in the last 10 years & measles in the last 15 - about the time people were becoming worried about the impact vaccines had on their children.

Just curious - how long have you been practicing?
 
Your daughter is going to start having sex whenever she decides to start having sex (which could be long before she turns 18), and I find it hard to believe that a vaccination against a virus that causes a deadly cancer is going to send the wrong message. I wonder how I would feel as a parent if my teenager contracted HPV, and I could have prevented it.

If people are worried that this vaccine will encourage promuscuity in their daughters, why not just tell them its a vaccine for something else? Most 11 year olds wont know the difference so everyone should be satisfied - the parents worried about promiscuity and the people worried about children not getting vaccinations.
 
Your daughter is going to start having sex whenever she decides to start having sex (which could be long before she turns 18), and I find it hard to believe that a vaccination against a virus that causes a deadly cancer is going to send the wrong message. I wonder how I would feel as a parent if my teenager contracted HPV, and I could have prevented it.

It's so funny to me that people often rush to make comments like this about children. I really believe that this is a cop out. You as a parent do and should have control over the decisions your children make. The key is: don't start parenting when they become teenagers. Parenting should begin at birth. When i was a child (and I'm still in my 20s) my parents were "hands on" parents. They didn't wait for the schools or the media to raise us because they were already doing it. The result: all three of us (2 girls, 1 boy)graduated from college drugfree, std free, and baby free. I'm not saying that the vaccine is not a good option. I'm simply saying we should spend more time educating our children and instilling moral values rather than vaccinating them against STDs because "they're going to do it anyway." Our kids deserve a chance to develop into the responsible, moral adults God created them to be. We all need to stand up and be real parents again because in the end - our children are the ones who end up suffering. I KNOW how i would feel if my eleven yr old came home with some other STD or pregnant because I decided to leave the decision regarding premarital sex up to them.
 
To opt out one must file an affadavit indicating the religious or philisophical objections one has to the vaccine. I think this is a little ridiculous. Who determines what is an "acceptable" objection? Shouldn't one be able to opt out for whatever personal reason they had?

I agree that this is ridiculous. How's this for a reason : "My child is just that...A child, and therefore does not need to be vaccinated against a disease she can only contract through intercourse." Why isn't the flu vaccine mandatory? It seems that the flu should be more of a threat to children than HPV.
 
Okay, so I went and did a little more research on this issue and have revised my stance on Gardasil. While I feel it is acceptible to have on the market, I feel it is unacceptable to have this drug required by any state agency or school due to a myriad of reasons. It should be up to parents to decide if they want to vaccinate their children with this particular drug. Please note I am not calling for the abolishment of required vaccines. Any law forcing this particular vaccination on school aged children is ridiculous. We are going to force parents (because states certainly don't have the money to give it away for free thru their health departments) to spend $360 bucks (which is not a drop in the bucket for most people) to vaccinate against a disease that effects about 2% of the population? Is it me or is it more than coincidence Merck is pushing this drug so hard after its fall from grace with the Vioxx fiasco or more recently the failure to bring Vioxx's replacement Arcoxia to the market? We currently have about 30,000,000 school aged girls in the country and at $360 bucks a pop, thats $10,800,000,000 right into Merck's pocket. (thats 10.8 billion with a B!!) As far as the "opt out" clause is concerned, it is total crap thanks to the media and a country full of people that believe what they hear from their neighbor and read in the paper rather than the facts. When everyone else call's the signed law "mandatory," perception becomes reality and in effect it does become mandatory.

On top of that, I wouldn't give this vaccine to my daughter. Reguardless of the "it will make are cute daughters ******" rhetoric (rhetoric garbage from the right wing extreme machine I may add) , my reasoning is more from a safety/benefit stand point. I don't feel comfortable yet with this drug's findings because the risk assessment is still inconclusive for long term effects. What if we find out 10 years from now that it causes sterility? (Then Merck will go sell it in China, right?) In the drug trials, women were only followed for an average of 3-4 years. Big whoop! So not only do we NOT know about long term complications, we have NO idea how long immunity lasts. None. Zilch. Zippo!

Another bone of contention with Merck's advertising is the whole 50% transmission rate of HPV. What a load of horse crap. Jama not too long ago said that HPV's xmission rate is more like 33% and top that off, serotype HPV 16 & 18 (the ones that cause 2/3 of cervical cancer that Gardasil works on) transmission is about 1%. So who's kidding who here? I'm looking forward to reading the studies about this drug 10 years from now and seeing how successful it really is.
 
but what if it causes autisim in my child?!? 🙄 😴

No valid study has been able to link vaccinations to autism. I know there are many groups out there that oppose vacination based on their beleive that there is a link between those two.

I guess it really come down to what each parent wants for their little girl. I won't take the vaccin because I beleive that I don't meet the criteria anymore. But if I have a girl one day, I'll go for the vaccin. Although, I hope we won't have a girl, because my hubby is acting like he will kill anyone that come near her; she should not have sex until after he dies 🙂 ( hopefully, he is just running his mouth 😀 )
 
No valid study has been able to link vaccinations to autism. I know there are many groups out there that oppose vacination based on their beleive that there is a link between those two.

I guess it really come down to what each parent wants for their little girl. I won't take the vaccin because I beleive that I don't meet the criteria anymore. But if I have a girl one day, I'll go for the vaccin. Although, I hope we won't have a girl, because my hubby is acting like he will kill anyone that come near her; she should not have sex until after he dies 🙂 ( hopefully, he is just running his mouth 😀 )
turn on the sarcasm sensor, will ya?
 
Since I'm 26, I'm paying a total of $30 for the series of 3 shots. That won't buy coffee for a small Merck meeting.

And seriously, there's a difference between vaccines and drugs like antihistamines and COX-2 inhibitors. I'll gladly take my chances with Gardasil.
 
turn on the sarcasm sensor, will ya?

I'll try harder. I let a debate we had in class carry me away. However the debate about the link between autism and vaccination is an interesting one. Especially when I hear some scientists / pharmacist go for it even in the light of lack of solid data on it.
 
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Since I'm 26, I'm paying a total of $30 for the series of 3 shots. That won't buy coffee for a small Merck meeting.

What does your age have to do with you paying a copay of $30? Just because the total cost to you is $30 doesn't mean the price of the drug is $30. It's still close to $400. Your insurance is picking up the rest of it...


And seriously, there's a difference between vaccines and drugs like antihistamines and COX-2 inhibitors. I'll gladly take my chances with Gardasil.

What are you trying to imply with your statement? That because it's a vaccine for whatever disease and it's benefits automatically outweight the negatives but new novel approach medication has more negatives than benefits? I'm not quite sure if I follow your argument here...
 
Okay, so I went and did a little more research on this issue and have revised my stance on Gardasil. While I feel it is acceptible to have on the market, I feel it is unacceptable to have this drug required by any state agency or school due to a myriad of reasons. It should be up to parents to decide if they want to vaccinate their children with this particular drug. Please note I am not calling for the abolishment of required vaccines. Any law forcing this particular vaccination on school aged children is ridiculous. We are going to force parents (because states certainly don't have the money to give it away for free thru their health departments) to spend $360 bucks (which is not a drop in the bucket for most people) to vaccinate against a disease that effects about 2% of the population? Is it me or is it more than coincidence Merck is pushing this drug so hard after its fall from grace with the Vioxx fiasco or more recently the failure to bring Vioxx's replacement Arcoxia to the market? We currently have about 30,000,000 school aged girls in the country and at $360 bucks a pop, thats $10,800,000,000 right into Merck's pocket. (thats 10.8 billion with a B!!) As far as the "opt out" clause is concerned, it is total crap thanks to the media and a country full of people that believe what they hear from their neighbor and read in the paper rather than the facts. When everyone else call’s the signed law “mandatory,” perception becomes reality and in effect it does become mandatory.

On top of that, I wouldn't give this vaccine to my daughter. Reguardless of the "it will make are cute daughters ******" rhetoric (rhetoric garbage from the right wing extreme machine I may add) , my reasoning is more from a safety/benefit stand point. I don't feel comfortable yet with this drug's findings because the risk assessment is still inconclusive for long term effects. What if we find out 10 years from now that it causes sterility? (Then Merck will go sell it in China, right?) In the drug trials, women were only followed for an average of 3-4 years. Big whoop! So not only do we NOT know about long term complications, we have NO idea how long immunity lasts. None. Zilch. Zippo!

Another bone of contention with Merck's advertising is the whole 50% transmission rate of HPV. What a load of horse crap. Jama not too long ago said that HPV's xmission rate is more like 33% and top that off, serotype HPV 16 & 18 (the ones that cause 2/3 of cervical cancer that Gardasil works on) transmission is about 1%. So who's kidding who here? I'm looking forward to reading the studies about this drug 10 years from now and seeing how successful it really is.

Although I respect your opinion, I do think in spite of your further research, some of your information is still incorrect.

The law in Texas is in the process of being rescinded. On March 14, 2007, the Texas House passed a bill rescinding it which then sent it to the Texas Senate which was expected to pass it also. The governor is expected to sign it or allow it to become law without signature sometime this month.

When you do become a parent, you'll find school require lots of vaccinations for admittance. It is actually easy to opt out of these vaccinations & many do - this is a problem in a state such as CA & TX who have a large immigrant population. We have a communicable disease problem here because so many come without immunizations.

If you look at the actualy "language" of the opt out provision - you don't need to "prove" anything - you can opt out for a matter of conscious or religious conviction. There is no "test" of how good the reason is, which is true for any vaccine. But, unless you are a parent, you probably don't know this.

You are right - we don't know the long term effects & safety, but we do know the short to intermediate term. Hpv has been studied for 70 years. Vaccines against hpv have been studied for 10 years, unlike you claim they have not. Kaiser Portland has a long term study underway which is looking at 3 cohorts - incidene, occurrence & progression. We do know now that what we thought was lifetime immunity for many vaccines - measles, mumps, etc..has turned out to not be lifetime. But, this is knowledge developed from more extensive study of the immune system, which has only become a focus in the last 20 years or so.

However, I will point out that as a man who someday might love a woman - either your partner or daughter.....or as a woman, the thought of something which might prevent a sexually transmitted disease which could result in cancer, will give you pause. The idea that sharing sexual feelings and activities with someone you love - or knowing that one day your daughter, hopefully when she is adult enough to make adult choices, will do the same - might result in a life threatening disease is frightening. If we are at the point when we can prevent that disease - only that one disease with a vaccine, I'm willing to give it a try (not for myself - I'm too old, but I do have a daughter who has been vaccinated). We know that Gardasil does not cover all the hpv strains which are implicated in cancer - it might be wise for some to wait for the next one due out in a year or so. We might find that there are other causes for cancer as well - then we make the best choice at the time.

So...these are all choices you get to make, without guilt or repercussions. As a parent, I am well aware of how strongly parents feel on both sides & justifiably. Thats why I'm all for parental choice. The love & desire to have your child have the best health possible is an overwhelming one. Likewise, as a woman, the concept of a cancer which can be spread in a sexual manner being contained is wonderful as well. It gives me hope that other diseases we think might be implicated with an infectious agent - MS, other cancers, etc....might be contained as well.

Again - I respect your choice & decision.....and, shortly, you might have to make a decision as well. The next vaccine will be indicated for both boys & girls. But, do your research well, judge the studies objectively, look back at "old" research from 10-20 years ago & look at vaccine research in general. Then make the very best decision you can, which you have right now. When you do have a daughter, perhaps things might be different...🙂
 
Vaccines against hpv have been studied for 10 years, unlike you claim they have not. Kaiser Portland has a long term study underway which is looking at 3 cohorts - incidene, occurrence & progression.

When I said studied for a few years, I was referring to the phase III clinical trial, not the actual research for a vaccine against HPV which was started in 1993 by Jensen Pharmaceuticals and Medimune (makers of Cervarix) who have since been bought out by Merck and GSK respectively. The research they did was quite facinating because of the novel approach. Good read to anyone that is interested.

Yes im aware of the Portland Keiser Permenente study currently being conducted as well as the NCI funded ALTS trial for safety.

sdn1977 said:
If we are at the point when we can prevent that disease - only that one disease with a vaccine, I'm willing to give it a try (not for myself - I'm too old, but I do have a daughter who has been vaccinated).

You maybe willing to give the drug to prevent the disease, but from a social-economic stand point, is it really worth it? Currently the disease strikes in less than 2% of the population. Perhaps it's worth it from a personal stand point for some people like you and your daughter. But what about the stand point of a health care professional? Is it worth it? (perhaps zpack can grace us with his opinion here...) From the same stand point, should we try to vaccinate every American if a vaccine becomes available for a disease that effects so comparatively little? What if we find a vaccination for Legionnaire's disease? Should we innoculate every elgible American for it?

Another little thing that pisses me off... It behooves Merck to advertise the dickens out of this drug, like they did with Vioxx. So lets say you ask me why I think that especially since Merck is now facing many lawsuits about Vioxx and it's marketing strategy. Well, IF a major side effect/reaction is found with Gardasil similar to Vioxx, it won't ever effect Merck. The worst thing that can happen is it gets taken off the market. "Well what about the people that sue and win big settlements?" That will be paid for by all Americans since Gardacil is a VICP drug. 😍 Nice winfall, eh?

sdn1977 said:
Again - I respect your choice & decision.....and, shortly, you might have to make a decision as well.
*GASP* Did I get somebody pregnant or something? I sure hope not!!!

Anyway, thats enough mental masturbation exercise for me for today.
tugger.gif
More later...
 
Good points all - very well thought out. I can't dispute your points & they're good ones to think about since we are often asked about exactly these same issues.

As for the pregnancy thing - only you know for sure😉 . Stick to the whole mental .... whatever & you won't need Gardasil, day care, prom dresses & bridal bouquets (oh - & what were those things - dung beetles??:meanie: )😀 !

Good luck 😉 !
 
You maybe willing to give the drug to prevent the disease, but from a social-economic stand point, is it really worth it? Currently the disease strikes in less than 2% of the population. Perhaps it's worth it from a personal stand point for some people like you and your daughter. But what about the stand point of a health care professional? Is it worth it? (perhaps zpack can grace us with his opinion here...) From the same stand point, should we try to vaccinate every American if a vaccine becomes available for a disease that effects so comparatively little? What if we find a vaccination for Legionnaire's disease? Should we innoculate every elgible American for it?

Kind of like the rabies vaccine. It's available but most people don't need to get it. I was walking my dog one night when I heard shuffling around in a dumpster nearby, and I thought for a split second, "Why the bleep do I not have a rabies vaccine?!" Anyone, you or I can be bitten by a rabid cat or bat any time... should we mass vaccinate against rabies? We just don't. We vaccinate all of our pets though.

(Although, after thinking about it, it's not a good comparison because unlike Gardasil, the rabies vaccine/globulin can be effective post-exposure.)
 
I was in the Gardasil study. Made a bunch of money off it actually. No extra eyes or vaginas here (yet).

I don't see how this reflects changing morality in our country. How many of your children (or yourselves) asked what each vaccination they received as a child was for? Thinking back I guess middle school because we had to get a MMR would be the first time I knew what I was getting specifically.

I did a presentation on the HPV vaccines for lab this semester - I found data that the titer levels were higher in those vaccinated than those who actually had HPV. My professor said he thought this may be valuable in those who are already infected with HPV to suppress flareups.
 
WOW!

I just got my first shot in the series today, and man... the pain, aka "kick", from the injection was so intense that I melted physically and mentally and accidentally withdrew the needle from my arm as I was losing my balance and slowly falling away.

The nurse, who was awesome!, had to restick me, because she wasn't expecting me to pull away... but that wasn't the bad part... the intense pain was... OUCH!


Oh, and she called me a "little girl", too. 😛 I guess she thought I was younger than I am. 😉
 
Social issues aside, I think it is a good idea. My girlfriend contracted HPV at a very young age and as a result cervical cancer which went undetected for a year or more. Fortunately, they were still able to save most of her cervix. Her doctor says she still has a good chance of being able to have children, so long as she is bedridden post-first term. Also, she will have to have a c-section due to the location of the damage.

Getting to my point, if I had a daughter, now knowing the problems that arose with my girlfriend, I would like for my daughter to be able to have children one day without having to worry about complications. Yes, I know there are other issues (both social and physical) but those will be weighed when I am a parent for my daughter.

(thanks to whoever posted the information above, good material)
 
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Trust drug companies not even a little. Read this article at WAPO. I would not recommend anyone get this unless they have multiple sexual partners....
 
Trust drug companies not even a little. Read this article at WAPO. I would not recommend anyone get this unless they have multiple sexual partners....
Are you more concerned about the wrongdoings of the drug company or the effectiveness of the vaccine? I'm more concerned with the effectiveness of the vaccine.

How can you say that multiple sexual partners are any more dangerous than having one partner who is not a virgin? Is that just a way to compare odds, like gambling? 🙄


You're not making very much sense to me right now...
 
the realation between HPV and genital wart enable to assess yourself or your loved one. More than a million Americans are diagnosed with HPV infection every year for more details http://herpespicture.net/results/hpv
 
It's so funny that I came across this thread today because I was just talking to my beautician about this new vaccine. I personally do not have any children yet, but I disagree with the mandate. I just cannot reconcile my moral beliefs with vaccinating 11 year old children against an STD. IMO this is just another reflection of how our values have changed (for the worst) in society. I realize that cervical cancer is very serious, and this vaccine's ability to eradicate the disease is a wonderful thing. However, if and when I have daughters I would rather emphasize a sense of self respect and morality. When they reach the age of 18, then they will be able to make a decision for themselves as to whether they choose to be vaccinated. Until then, I will definitely be opting out.

I realize this is an old thread, but even if your daughter is a lifelong virgin, what if she's raped?
 
I realize this is an old thread, but even if your daughter is a lifelong virgin, what if she's raped?

Good necrobump. LOL. Just to warn you, though: the person you responded to has not logged in since early last year so she probably won't answer you. The post you quoted was from 2007!
 
As of September 28, 2010, the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) has more than 18,000 Gardasil-related adverse events listed in it, including at least 65 deaths.
 
As of September 28, 2010, the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) has more than 18,000 Gardasil-related adverse events listed in it, including at least 65 deaths.

Could you post the link? I am in dire need of a distraction from studying for our biochem final. 😎
 
Could you post the link? I am in dire need of a distraction from studying for our biochem final. 😎

This report http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/hpv/gardasil.html lists the figures as slightly less than the 18000/65 posted. And that's out of 32 million doses (0.05% or so?). 92% were considered non-serious (fainting, pain at injection site, etc). Read the whole report and don't forget to read the part about the "Limitations of VAERS." One chief limitation (and it's a big one for those who want to use VAERS reports against any given vaccine) is that it does NOT demonstrate causality.
 
This report http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/hpv/gardasil.html lists the figures as slightly less than the 18000/65 posted. And that's out of 32 million doses (0.05% or so?). 92% were considered non-serious (fainting, pain at injection site, etc). Read the whole report and don't forget to read the part about the "Limitations of VAERS." One chief limitation (and it's a big one for those who want to use VAERS reports against any given vaccine) is that it does NOT demonstrate causality.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!! You're the best 👍
 
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