Married to a ....... CRNA

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by narcusprince, May 16, 2014.

  1. SDN is made possible through member donations, sponsorships, and our volunteers. Learn about SDN's nonprofit mission.
  1. narcusprince

    narcusprince Rough Rider 10+ Year Member

    1,109
    259
    Dec 3, 2003
    The gamma quadrant
    Well fellas. Thought I would come clean. Got hitched this month to a CRNA. Life is great! Looks like the force is with me. See yall at the ASA. Cannot miss me with the big smile!
     
  2. SDN Members don't see this ad. About the ads.
  3. Arch Guillotti

    Arch Guillotti Senior Member Lifetime Donor SDN Administrator 10+ Year Member

    6,976
    584
    Aug 8, 2001
    Physician
    I know several that are. Not a big deal. Congrats!
     
    DermViser likes this.
  4. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

    10,351
    4,066
    Dec 14, 2005
    Home Again
    Congratulations. :)
     
  5. sevoflurane

    sevoflurane Ride 10+ Year Member

    4,447
    982
    Jul 16, 2003
    Traitor..... Shoulda married an anesthesiologist...! :rolleyes:

    J/K... congrats dude. Sitting here doing a TFN on a Friday afternoon. Looking throught the chart, I see an old anesthesia record signed by my wife.

    Just don't tell her how to tape the tube... That's a bad move. :punch:
     
    Physio Doc 2 Be likes this.
  6. bigdan

    bigdan SDN Donor 10+ Year Member

    2,323
    110
    Dec 30, 2002
    Ann Arbor
    M -

    Congrats! Someone tamed tbe beast?!?

    I start fellowship at CCF in July...big shoes to fill...
     
  7. Hawaiian Bruin

    Hawaiian Bruin Breaking Good 10+ Year Member

    1,991
    705
    Mar 13, 2003
    Since crnas are going to be all of our bosses anyway, I salute you for being an early adopter.

    Congrats! (Seriously)
     
    OPPforlife, Mad Jack and DermViser like this.
  8. BuzzPhreed

    BuzzPhreed

    1,224
    624
    Jan 9, 2014
    What do you mean "going to be"? At Cleveland Clinic they already are.
     
  9. Physio Doc 2 Be

    Physio Doc 2 Be Supratentorial problems 7+ Year Member

    2,577
    775
    Sep 4, 2007
    TDC
    Physician
    Congrats, dude!
     
  10. Jay K

    Jay K nullum gratuitum prandium 5+ Year Member

    congrats
     
  11. IanMcGalt

    IanMcGalt

    118
    47
    Mar 14, 2014
    I wish my wife was a crna instead of a stay-at-home mom.
     
  12. gasdoc77

    gasdoc77 2+ Year Member

    267
    163
    Dec 7, 2012
    I too am a member of that club for 7 years. Best decision I ever made. Congrats!
     
  13. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

    6,870
    1,432
    Jun 20, 2005
    I'm proud of you also for admitting it. There are some here that keep that on the DL.
     
  14. dr doze

    dr doze To be able to forget means to sanity Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

    3,202
    914
    Dec 6, 2006
    Remember to keep posting stuff from their private website using your spouse's AANA credentials.

    For the lurkers.;)
     
  15. MaximusD

    MaximusD Anatomically Incorrect 10+ Year Member

    I'm married to a nurse. I think it works, because she doesn't get mad when I bitch about other nurses...
     
    DermViser likes this.
  16. MalloryWeiss

    MalloryWeiss ASA Member 2+ Year Member

    23
    8
    Apr 25, 2013
    This is great, congrats! I'm engaged to a nurse who is on track towards becoming a CRNA. I'm totally encouraging her. I'm currently an anesthesia resident, so the way I see it -- anesthesia is a win-win field for me. Even if us MDs lose more ground to CRNAs ... it's still $$ in my pocket.

    If you can't beat em... join em!
     
    NancyPansy likes this.
  17. MaximusD

    MaximusD Anatomically Incorrect 10+ Year Member

    Isn't this how the conquistadors really defeated the Aztecs...!?
     
    Skynnyrd likes this.
  18. aneftp

    aneftp 7+ Year Member

    1,622
    501
    Mar 23, 2010
    Money is money guys. Secondary income from a working spouse is great.

    Remember one of best things about being married to CRNA is flexible work schedule along with pretty good pay.

    Honestly it's near impossible to find a job as anesthesiologist working 3 days a week (12 hour days) for 150-180k that I know many crnas make that includes many 3-4 days weekends plus vacation.
     
  19. health123

    health123

    16
    8
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hello everyone, I am trying to find the right thread to post this in, and I think this might be it as some of you are already physicians and have significant others who are nurses. A little bit of a background: top of my class in high school, went straight to UCLA-beginning of second year of undergrad, sister passes away from car accident, dad dies the next year of mi. Grades drop like crazy, especially the premed science grades. Anyway, I gather myself the last two years of UCLA, take LVN night classes during that time thinking my md days are over, become an LVN, get my BS in neuroscience, then go on to a year of RN. Become an RN, work, open my own business (home health), go back to school become an Adult NP, work some more, go back to school finish Critical Care NP certification. Here I am, contemplating medical school. I love what I do, I have helped save many lives, but I hunger for the sciences which I feel I didn't get as much in nursing or np school. I find myself going back to the books after an interesting case, reading the microbiology of what happened. But, I want that to be in the back of my mind always, like all MD students have when practicing (I'm assuming). I am considering CRNA (fascinated by anesthesiology since the first rotations in rn school). But, I might still feel inadequate and all my schooling might feel like a waste and leave me depressed wanting for more. I am 33 now, married to a loving, caring Dentist, and we have a 1 year old boy. Am i crazy for wanting medicine at this stage in my life? Will being a crna be mentally challenging and is it as respected as anesthesiology? I know if i go that route, I'll go all the way to dnap. But is that worth it? or should i go back and improve my science grade and give med school a shot. I am at a cross roads in my life, I really need sound guidance from the the tried and true. Thank you.
     
  20. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member 7+ Year Member

    2,354
    401
    Oct 26, 2008
    Utah
    not really, we have people older than you during ms1. some with a lot more young kids than you do. med school should be easier for you too since you've been exposed to healthcare stuff. you sound like you really like medicine. i say go for it. you have excellent backup anyway in case med school doesn't work out and you drop out.
     
    NancyPansy and secants like this.
  21. Baller MD

    Baller MD 7+ Year Member

    1,008
    501
    Jul 21, 2008
    Go CRNA route. Much more bang for the buck considering your age. Becoming a doctor these days is way overrated.
     
    Consigliere likes this.
  22. health123

    health123

    16
    8
    Feb 21, 2015
    Wanted to add, money is luckily not an issue for me. Husband and I have made great money with lots of investments, so we are extremely fortunate to have secured our future. But, I do burn out (I think that's the definition of being a nurse/np these days); that's my only concern and going back to do all those science courses...is it worth it? Or is CRNA challenging enough?

    Another concern I have is all this talk of CRNA market being saturated. Will that be an issue, say in the next 5-10 years? thanks all.
     
  23. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

    10,351
    4,066
    Dec 14, 2005
    Home Again
    Two questions there. The challenge of a CRNA's job varies greatly with the environment, case load, patient acuity, level of physician direction/supervision/backup, and the individual's skill and experience.

    I think you know the answer to the second question. Though if you're looking for glory and praise, look for a third option. CRNAs are more often envied and/or hated by other nurses, than admired by them. Anesthesiologists are supporting actors. Most other doctors understand our value and want us around when things go sideways, but they won't often actually voice that aloud. We're like offensive linemen, frequently invisible as we move the team, until we screw up and the QB gets sacked.


    The DNAP is a false summit. It's a scam. Utterly worthless if the aim is self-improvement. Marginally useful as a political or employment tool. No one's fooled by it, even the CRNAs doing it to check that box.

    I am alternately amused that the AANA is choosing to screw its own membership by pushing the DNAP thing, and irritated at their gall to assert that some pointy-clicky online education brings them closer to physician status.


    The CRNA market is saturated and likely to become more so. There's no sign that they'll slow their overproduction. The CRNA puppy mills are making money hand over fist on SRNAs. Predicting the future is hard, but here again the AANA isn't doing them any favors.

    But ... if you're financially secure already ... if you end up working for less than today's CRNA wages, if it's a job you want to do, so what?

    You're 33 year old nurse. You could be a CRNA in what, 3-4 years depending on when you start? You said you tanked your science classes as an undergrad, so after a couple years of a post-bac to get yourself into a medical school, you could then start the 8 year process of med school and residency, finishing up when your kid is 10 or 11. If you think you'd be happy as a CRNA, do that.

    Don't let pride stop you from doing what's right for you.

    [​IMG]
     
    Mad Jack, FFP and ZzzPlz like this.
  24. dr doze

    dr doze To be able to forget means to sanity Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

    3,202
    914
    Dec 6, 2006
    Not sure how this will play out. I agree that CRNA training programs/Universities love the tuition paying students and will never cut back their slots. But an RN who is working and contemplating foregoing a paycheck for 2+ years and writing a check for $50,000 or so will simply pass unless there is a reward for that investment. The more that CRNA salaries drop, the fewer geographic options, etc. the more likely that RNs will pass on CRNA training programs the same way that med students stayed away from Anesthesiology during the job crunch of the 90s. Lots of unfilled residency slots then. Unfortunately that is not likely to happen to todays medical students due to the ratio of medical students to residency slots in all specialties.
     
  25. Baller MD

    Baller MD 7+ Year Member

    1,008
    501
    Jul 21, 2008
    What exactly happened in the 90s that resulted in a job crunch for anesthesiology? And why did demand increase?
     
  26. Arch Guillotti

    Arch Guillotti Senior Member Lifetime Donor SDN Administrator 10+ Year Member

    6,976
    584
    Aug 8, 2001
    Physician
    The rumor is that there was a lot of doom and gloom because of some relative of Bill Clinton that was a CRNA - supposedly the sky was falling and the specialty was doomed. The applicant pool tanked and was rife with FMG's. The prediction was never borne to fruition though.
     
    Baller MD likes this.
  27. dr doze

    dr doze To be able to forget means to sanity Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

    3,202
    914
    Dec 6, 2006
    supply hit demand....new grads couldn't find jobs...word got back to the med students.... who stayed away from anesthesia residencies.

    Demand increased because the work done by residents wasn't getting done because the residents weren't there...the training programs hired the recent grads. No excess of supply and no pipeline of residents in training...bull market for anesthesiologists...now ending.
     
    Baller MD likes this.
  28. health123

    health123

    16
    8
    Feb 21, 2015
    I was under the impression DNAP was a practice doctorate with more clinical rotations in more difficult cases ( a few programs I looked at had more clinical hours). Anyway, if I take the MD route, I was going to go back to "UCLA EXTENSION" and take the sciences classes I got b's and some c's for a's. That would definitely take about a year, which would mean applying in 2016 and starting 2017. Seems like a tedious road, but can't imagine doing anything else. CRNA is also tempting, but I want to work collaboratively with physicians and have opportunities to do hard cases; i don't know how feasible that is.
     
  29. Baller MD

    Baller MD 7+ Year Member

    1,008
    501
    Jul 21, 2008
    If that's the case then I'm not sure if the anesthesiology market will EVER get better. There will always be med students to fill those seats ie IMGs.
     
    FFP likes this.
  30. FFP

    FFP Grunt/cog/body Gold Donor 7+ Year Member

    4,819
    3,631
    Oct 17, 2007
    Bingo!

    Let's not forget also that the programs increased the number of residents by 40%, compared to the 90's. So even if they underfill, they will do way better than in the 90's.
     
  31. Biochemist21

    Biochemist21 7+ Year Member

    158
    35
    Jan 24, 2010
    USA
    Physician
    It seems like you've already made up your mind. For reference, I had an individual in my medical school class, started at age 46 after giving up a tenured position as a university mathematics professor. So yes, it can be done. I would recommend talking with CRNAs at your current institution and see if that helps guide (or reaffirm) your decision.
     
  32. FFP

    FFP Grunt/cog/body Gold Donor 7+ Year Member

    4,819
    3,631
    Oct 17, 2007
    You do realize what the IQ of that person must have been, right?
     
  33. Orin

    Orin 7+ Year Member

    254
    56
    Jul 27, 2009
    They are probably pretty far above average to be a tenured professor in math.

    I guess they could've just bought a sports car and called it a day, but I suppose medical school's not a worse choice.
     
    health123 likes this.
  34. FFP

    FFP Grunt/cog/body Gold Donor 7+ Year Member

    4,819
    3,631
    Oct 17, 2007
    So, if I understand correctly, at this point you are already a critical care APRN.

    Medical school at 33, with the current outlook? What for? Unless you want to become a surgeon... I would not submit myself to this amount of torture and waste of money, especially with a small kid. Better become the best critical care APRN than just be an average doctor (because there is no way in hell you'll have time for more than that). Find a good ICU doc who could mentor you through some advanced reading, to get a deeper understanding why you do things, and keep reading 3+ hours/day. In a year you'll be much further than you'd have ever imagined. Or learn some more business and go back to investing in home health care, or hospice. Nothing more satisfying than being your own boss, so rare nowadays as a physician.

    Let's also look at the financial aspect:
    - med school cost ~$250K
    - loss of income over 4 years of med school (assuming a very conservative $100K/year as an APRN now): ~$400K
    - loss of income over at least 6 years of residency and fellowship: ~$200K

    You will be 44 year-old when you will start recuperating that ~$800K, divided over 20 years. Add to it the cost of interest plus the amount you lose by not investing the same money (even at 7% average stock market return, you would double your money in 10 years, so you would lose another ~$500K). So now you have to make an extra ~$1.3+M over 20 years just to break even. That sounds OK as long as you would make at least $100-200K extra/year as a physician. That's true for now, might be less true in 10 years for most specialties. And what kind of residency can you get at 39? Or fellowship later? Seriously! I am an IMG so I was a late bloomer in this country, but I can tell you that my much younger co-residents had an easier life and got much better fellowships with much less knowledge and academic performance. Attendings are not big fans of supervising trainees who are the same age or older than them, especially if not young and good-looking. ;)

    You also do realize that physicians make more than APRNs because they don't work just 40 hours/week, right? So there is also a lifestyle cost in extra 20-40 hours/week you would work as a physician, that would start even as a medical student.

    A medical degree wouldn't bring more happiness. At your level, extra money wouldn't bring that much extra happiness either. The grass is always greener somewhere else, but I would count my blessings and enjoy my kid, my spouse and my life at max.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
  35. health123

    health123

    16
    8
    Feb 21, 2015
    Thank you FFP for breaking down some numbers. It makes a lot of sense looking at it from your angle. I guess when I do some soul searching, I realize what's really bothering is the fact that I know so much about diagnosing, treating, etc....I do my own research into things, I read a whole bunch of medical journals (not nursing). I just know I can do this and yet also know probably lost my opportunity. My husband was a biochem major at ucla back in the 90s with a 3.9 since and major gpa. He tried a few medical schools, got interviews but because he had to move away from ailing parents, he opted for local dental school. He says I'm feeling the "30's blues" regarding my profession which he went through and got over. I hope I can get over this too.
     
    courtnes, PianoMedic and Baller MD like this.
  36. dhb

    dhb Member Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

    3,130
    347
    Jul 12, 2006
    A lot of nurses think this
     
  37. criticalelement

    criticalelement Banned Banned Account on Hold 2+ Year Member

    766
    873
    Aug 24, 2014
    [​IMG]
    I would rather be married to the above than a crna. nuff said
     
    anes and Consigliere like this.
  38. rakotomazoto

    rakotomazoto ASA Member 7+ Year Member

    127
    79
    Aug 25, 2009
    Los Angeles, CA
    There were classmates of mine who were older and had multiple young children and made it through medical school. It sounds like you are the kind of person who could make it happen. At the same time, FFP did a nice job of pointing out the stark reality of the path you would be embarking on. If you are willing to pay the price and make those sacrifices, I suspect that you will get a lot out of the experience of becoming a physician. But don't do it for prestige, money, or respect because anesthesiology is not that specialty. Most people don't know what you do or why it matters, other people want to do your job claiming they can do it better for less money, and the prestige and respect always goes to the surgeons. If you can derive internal satisfaction and enjoy doing your job well for the sake of patients who will not remember your name, then becoming an anesthesiologist might be worth considering.

    Personally, if I was in your situation I doubt I would embark on that journey with a 1 year old son. My son is 6 months and trust me, you miss out on a lot. Residency and clinical years of medical school are time consuming and your schedule is not under your control.
     
    NancyPansy and dhb like this.
  39. SouthSideSteve

    SouthSideSteve 7+ Year Member

    265
    85
    Apr 26, 2006
    That's what they want you and every other lay person to think. You obviously haven't looked at it much or you easily see its non clinical fluff.
     
    FFP likes this.
  40. narcusprince

    narcusprince Rough Rider 10+ Year Member

    1,109
    259
    Dec 3, 2003
    The gamma quadrant
    Have not posted in a while due to me being in a remote location. Definetly have learned a ton over the year. Been a solo practioner for the last 6-7 months. I have had to learn a ton about the construction of the operating room from building and purchasing anesthesia equipment to maintinence logs to sterile processing to include training of junior techs on our equipment. As well as providing solo care for an island( I do have a CRNA). My wife is back in the states and works locums. She has practiced in many different supervisory roles IE medical direction and medical supervision. I think we are both set in that medical direction is the way to go. Medical supervision is truly dreadful covering 8-9 rooms no real control as an anesthesiologist basically a firefighter who comes in when stuff hits the fan with little preventive maintinence. Watch out for this medical supervision mode isl truly scary. I will say my wife keeps me on my toes she does some pretty cool cases awake carotids, crani's, and open AAA. I also have realized the knowledge difference between us and them which is stark. Also, the social structure of CRNA's is quite different then physicians. It has not been easy but worth it in the end. Anyone from the Jacksonville area PM trying to get some insite into the groups in that area.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  41. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

    29,555
    49,344
    Jul 27, 2013
    4th Dimension
    Just so you're aware, medical school is going to be a ridiculous time commitment that is far more draining than most CRNA programs. You're going to spend 8 years of your life with a stratospheric level of stress. Most people don't really understand how bad it is until they're in, as they figure it's all just bitching and hype, but let me assure you, the stress will eat you alive. During residency you'll be pushing 70-80 hours most weeks, often doing overnights and the like for 4 years. Does that sound like a life you want to live? Does that sound like a place you want your 30s to go all for the sake of a bit of extra knowledge? If the answer is yes, go to medical school. If it is no, well... Sure as hell don't.
     
    health123 likes this.
  42. FFP

    FFP Grunt/cog/body Gold Donor 7+ Year Member

    4,819
    3,631
    Oct 17, 2007
    Off-topic, just to clear up the terms, because you have them mixed up. More than 4 rooms or not meeting all the TEFRA requirements is supervision, not direction. Also, medical supervision is not necessarily by an anesthesiologist.

    This is a pretty good explanation:
    Source: https://www.forwardhealth.wi.gov/WIPortal/Online Handbooks/Print/tabid/154/Default.aspx?ia=1&p=1&sa=82&s=2&c=61&nt=Supervision Requirements
     
    BLADEMDA likes this.
  43. narcusprince

    narcusprince Rough Rider 10+ Year Member

    1,109
    259
    Dec 3, 2003
    The gamma quadrant
    Medical direction versus supervision is the way to go. I don't see how any anesthesiologist could safely cover 8-9 rooms. You could not pay me enough money to do it. Crnas are good at management of inter operative cases but not so great at preventive maintainince, preop eval, postop management. Huge difference in training.
     
  44. gasman1962

    gasman1962

    7
    0
    Feb 27, 2015
    The CRNA schools require no lower than a "B" in any science courses - so you will have to repeat the courses anyhow. In my pre-med and med school courses, the CRNA students took the same science classes.
     
  45. Psai

    Psai Account on Hold Account on Hold 2+ Year Member

    9,187
    17,864
    Jan 2, 2014
    ヽ(´ー`)ノ
    Physician
    There's no way this is true
     
  46. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

    10,351
    4,066
    Dec 14, 2005
    Home Again
    ell oh ell

    CRNA strip mall puppy mills will take anyone who can write a check for tuition. Good programs have standards. Not all programs are good ones, though.



    A nursing student taking the same class as a med student is like a nurse working in the same ICU as a doctor.
     
  47. safeanesthesia1

    safeanesthesia1 Account on Hold Account on Hold

    1
    0
    Feb 27, 2015

    Actually it is true, maybe you should look at the evidence? I advise going to med school, she'd never get accepted to CRNA school, it's far more difficult to get in, and you can't just drop out and then go back whenever you feel like it like med school. And having an NP doesn't meet the pre-req's for CRNA school.
     
  48. sb247

    sb247 wait...you mean I got in? 5+ Year Member

    13,460
    16,971
    Jul 5, 2012
    Galt's Gulch
    http://www.barry.edu/anesthesiology/ms/admissions/

    2 science classes required?
     
  49. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

    10,351
    4,066
    Dec 14, 2005
    Home Again
    Enough. Begone, troll.
     
  50. sb247

    sb247 wait...you mean I got in? 5+ Year Member

    13,460
    16,971
    Jul 5, 2012
    Galt's Gulch
    are you replying to me?
     

Share This Page