Match List 2016

[TheaterOfTheme]

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So I wasn't sure where I should post this, but I wanted it out there in case I ever forget.

The 2016 DO match rate (as in true match rate) for all current graduates seeking GME is somewhere between 87.2% and 89.7%. Honestly, I'm surprised its so close the range I estimated a few years ago (85-90%) with significantly less data. For reference, the US MD 2016 match rate was 93.9%.

The range is due to the lack of breakdown of the 132 DOs that SOAPed into current graduates vs. past graduates. If all of the DOs who SOAPed were current graduates, the match rate would be 87.2%. If all of the DOs that SOAPed were previous graduates, the match rate would be 89.7%. The true match rate is likely somewhere between these two.

Similarly, the corrected current DO graduate NRMP match rate is somewhere between 86.4% and 91.3%, again varied depending on the breakdown of the SOAP. 2699 current graduates and 283 previous graduates participated in the NRMP match. 2465 current graduates attained positions in the NRMP match and SOAP.

The placement rate of current graduates is 99.61% meaning that 24 current graduates (0.39%) that wanted GME failed to attain it. An additional 43 did not wish to attain GME this year. 535 current DO graduates scrambled into AOA spots (~10%).

The information I used to arrive at this is from these two documents:

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2016.pdf
http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2016-match-report.pdf?sfvrsn=20

That's such a great placement rate, overall. I hope it doesn't go down to much due to the merge.

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

CCOM
(did not list duplicate sites within same specialty more than once)

IM-40
St James Hospital and Health Center Olympia Fields IL
St Louis Univ SOM-MO
Ohio State University Med Ctr
Nassau University Medical Center
UIC Christ
Univ of Chicago/NorthShore
Methodist Hospital-Houston-TX
U Cincinnati Med Ctr
U Massachusetts Med School
Swedish Covenant Hospital
U IL-St Francis Med Ctr
Indiana Univ Sch Of Med
Bay Area-Corpus Christi Medical Center
Doctors Hospital
Advocate Lutheran Gen Hosp-IL
Cleveland Clinic Fdn
Regional Medical Center Bayonet Point
Cook County-Stroger Hospital-IL Medicine-Primary
Med Coll Wisconsin Affil Hosps
Ohio State University Med Ctr
Brooke Army Medical Center
UC San Francisco-Fresno-CA
Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
Scripps Mercy Hosp-San Diego-CA
Riverside Medical Center
Botsford Hospital-MI
McLaren Greater Lansing-MI
McLaren Macomb-MI
Des Peres Hospital-MO
U Connecticut School of Medicine Medicine-Primary

ANESTHESIA-7
U Wisconsin Hospital and Clinics
U Minnesota Med School
U Kentucky Med Ctr
Cleveland Clinic Fdn
NYMC-Westchester Med Ctr
SAUSHEC- Brooke Army Medical Center

FM-50
St James Hospital and Health Center
Illinois Masonic Medical Center
Advocate Christ Hospital & Medical Center
Resurrection Medical Center
U Illinois COM-Chicago
Novant Health Huntersville Medical Center
Swedish Covenant Hospital
Med Coll Wisconsin Affil Hosps
UPMC Altoona
MacNeal Hospital
Advocate Lutheran Gen Hosp
Community Health of South Florida
Adventist Hinsdale Hospital
University at Buffalo SOM-NY Fam Med
University of Illinois/Methodist Medical Center
U Utah Affil Hospitals
Northwestern McGawNMH/VA
Long Beach Mem Med Ctr-CA
Plainview Hospital
MacNeal Hospital-IL
Loyola Univ Med Ctr
Carle Foundation Hospital-IL
Memorial Hospital-IN
Adventis LaGrange Memorial Hospital-IL
Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center-OR
West Suburban Hospital Medical Center -IL
University of Wisconsin
Aurora St Lukes Medical Ctr-WI
Mark Darnall Army Community Hospital
St Anthony North Hosp-CO
University of Illinois/Methodist Medical Center
St Joseph Hospital SCL Health-CO
UPMC McKeesport
Des Peres Hospital -MO
St Francis Hosp Ctr-IN

EM-33
St James Hospital and Health Center
Western Michigan Univ Stryker SOM
U Illinois COM-Chicago
Henry Ford Macomb Hospitals
Henry Ford Wyandotte Hospital
U IL-St Francis Med Ctr
U Iowa Hosps and Clinics
McLaren Oakland
Albert Einstein Medical Center-PA
UH Regional Hospitals
U Louisville SOM
St Barnabas Hospital
Good Samaritan Hospital & Medical Center-NY
Arnot Ogden Medical Center-NY
Lakeland Regional Medical Center-MI
Drexel Univ COM/Hahnemann Univ Hosp
Kennedy University Hospital/Our Lady of Lourdes EM-NJ
Western Michigan Univ Stryker SOM
Lehigh Valley Health Network-PA

PEDIATRICS-20
Advocate Christ Med Ctr
Advocate Lutheran Gen Hosp
U Tennessee COM-Memphis
Cincinnati Childrens Hosp MC
Rush University Med Ctr
U Louisville SOM-KY
U Wisconsin Hospital and Clinics
Wright Patterson Air Force Base
U South Florida Morsani COM
Childrens Hosp of Michigan
UCLA Med Ctr
Loyola Univ Med Ctr
U Illinois COM-Chicago
Med Coll Wisconsin Affil Hosps
Childrens Regional-Cooper University Hospital-PA
St Vincent Hosp Ctr-IN

GENERAL SURGERY-5
U Kansas SOM
Detroit Med Ctr/WSU
St James Hospital and Health Center
Virginia Mason Med Ctr-WA

RADIOLOGY-6
Loyola Univ Med Ctr
U Illinois COM-Chicago
Med Coll Wisconsin Affil Hosps

OTOLARYNGOLOGY-1
McLaren Oakland

PSYCHIATRY-4
U Colorado SOM
U Nevada Affil Hosps
Baystate Med Ctr
Tripler Army Medical Center

RADIATION ONCOLOGY-1
Cleveland Clinic Fdn

NEUROLOGY-3
Loma Linda University-CA
Grandview Hospital & Medical Center
U South Florida Morsani COM

NEUROSURGERY-1
PCOM

OB/GYN-4
Mercy Health-Muskegon
St Joseph Mercy-Oakland
Loma Linda University-CA
Ohio State University Med Ctr

ORTHOPEDIC SURGERY (5)
Grandview Hospital & Medical Center
St James Hospital and Health Center
Larkin Community Hospital

PMR-5
Marianjoy Rehab Hosp-IL
UPMC Medical Education-PA
Rutgers-New Jersey Medical School
Baylor Univ Med Ctr-Dallas-TX
U Colorado SOM

UROLOGICAL SURGERY-2
St John Providence Health System-MI
St James Hospital and Health Center

CCOM has gone down the tubes these past few years. This is a horrible list. CCOM had the highest LizzyM average (do pre-meds still use LizzyM?), is located a few subway stops away from some of the largest medical research centers in the country, has 100% ward based rotations, highest tuition in the country, class size of 200 students.... [ I can go on and on]. Best matches are UIL Chicago EM which is in Cook County, Neurosurg at PCOM, UMass IM, RadOnc at CCF, and Peds at UCLA. The St. James Uro and St. James Ortho has a contract with CCOM where they interview CCOM students which is a given. The Ortho program at Larkin won't pass ACGME accreditation and everyone in the field knows it. The Detroit/WSU surgery match is a prelim position. Overall for such a large class with access to soo many Chicago resources, this list is very mediocre.

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

Other observations I have as an OMSIII going into surgery are:
-The coveted CookCounty Uro match went to a PCOM-GA student. This will be an all-MD program next year folks. At a recent conference, UChicago and Northwestern students were already discussing applying to this program.
-Mayo clinic ortho match by the KCUMB student was impressive only because the program has a heavy research requirement and the applicant must have had some generous research experience to match there.
-PCOM's surgery programs recruit heavily from PCOM and LECOM (historically) but this year it looks like they will have students from all over the country.
-USC has always taken DOs in many of their programs before. Ya'll need to chill. UCLA and Ceders are the most competitive programs in LA.
-The Harvard anesthesiology matches aren't that competitive, especially if it's in MassGeneral. The BID program is more competitive, but even that is mid tear for anesthesiology.
- Cleveland Clinic interviews most of their programs based on board scores and class rank. So the ortho, gen surg, integrated vascular matches have less to do with being a DO than with scores/rank.
-Plaza Medical Center in Texas is a very competitive DO gensurg program that only takes 2 students. Surprised that PCOM-GA took a seat.
- PCOM's RadOnc match at Temple's Cancer Center is top tier. They are a huge referral center for cancer in Philadelphia. I'm curious if the student took a research year like the Integrates Plastics student. This year one of the faculty won a nobel prize. It's a top program.
-The Integrated Plastics match at UPenn is mind blowing. You won't see another surgery match of this caliber for a decade or more.
- RVU's Baylor in Dallas match is also really competitive. They have a ton of in-house surgery fellowships and it's a really sought after program because of location.
Congrats to everyone who matched!!

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[redhope]

Will General Surgery still be feasible in the coming years? I already notice that only a handful of students from each school (~10 or less) match into these spots, and with the ACGME merger, I expect there will be less matching.

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

Will General Surgery still be feasible in the coming years? I already notice that only a handful of students from each school (~10 or less) match into these spots, and with the ACGME merger, I expect there will be less matching.

That's a complicated question.
Pretty much everything outside of surgery and surgical sub-specialties are open for DOs in every region. This will not change in the future.
It's going to be harder and harder for DOs to match, especially after the merger takes full effect (mid 2020s) for surgery and subspecialty programs. The fact is that MSUCOM and OUHCOM did a lot of the heavy lifting in the past few decades, opening up a ton of surgery seats in their states and the rest of the COMs grads were taking advantage of them while opening little to no seats in their OPTIs. MSUCOM and OUHCOM have both expanded (more satellite sites, class expansion, etc.) and the state of Michigan has opened up a few new MD public schools. For example, I guess Beaumont Health, which had 2 DO surgery residencies affiliated with MSUCOM, will be a feeder program for OUWB, a new public MD school in Michigan.
DO schools are expanding and not opening up diverse GME opportunities in their OPTIs. And, the schools that did do their jobs, like MSUCOM, OUHCOM, NYCOM (now NYITCOM), WesternCOMP, etc, are being out-competed with new DO and MD schools opening. Another example, Broward Health near Miami, a hospital with many DO programs, was bought out by FIU because FIU promised to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars for GME expansion.
The fact is that matching surgery, weather MD or DO, is very tough. Getting into programs with in-house fellowships, like Baylor-Dallas or Cleveland Clinic, is even tougher.
I've started applying to electives and, believe me, most PDs, especially the younger ones, view DOs and MDs as equals. The only problem is that, in 80% of the cases, the MDs do indeed have a stronger application and we have to accept that. The other 20% of DOs that have as good apps as MDs, just apply in the DO match and save themselves the headache/gamble. This is for surgery. I can't comment on what will happen for IM/EM, etc.

 

[Psai]

Other observations I have as an OMSIII going into surgery are:
-The coveted CookCounty Uro match went to a PCOM-GA student. This will be an all-MD program next year folks. At a recent conference, UChicago and Northwestern students were already discussing applying to this program.
-Mayo clinic ortho match by the KCUMB student was impressive only because the program has a heavy research requirement and the applicant must have had some generous research experience to match there.
-PCOM's surgery programs recruit heavily from PCOM and LECOM (historically) but this year it looks like they will have students from all over the country.
-USC has always taken DOs in many of their programs before. Ya'll need to chill. UCLA and Ceders are the most competitive programs in LA.
-The Harvard anesthesiology matches aren't that competitive, especially if it's in MassGeneral. The BID program is more competitive, but even that is mid tear for anesthesiology.
- Cleveland Clinic interviews most of their programs based on board scores and class rank. So the ortho, gen surg, integrated vascular matches have less to do with being a DO than with scores/rank.
-Plaza Medical Center in Texas is a very competitive DO gensurg program that only takes 2 students. Surprised that PCOM-GA took a seat.
- PCOM's RadOnc match at Temple's Cancer Center is top tier. They are a huge referral center for cancer in Philadelphia. I'm curious if the student took a research year like the Integrates Plastics student. This year one of the faculty won a nobel prize. It's a top program.
-The Integrated Plastics match at UPenn is mind blowing. You won't see another surgery match of this caliber for a decade or more.
- RVU's Baylor in Dallas match is also really competitive. They have a ton of in-house surgery fellowships and it's a really sought after program because of location.
Congrats to everyone who matched!!

You are wrong about anesthesiology. Brigham and Mass General are considered to be two of the top programs in the country and are extremely competitive to even interview at. The people I know that interviewed at those places had step 1s above 250 and otherwise excellent applications with a ton of research. These are people who could have done anything. When I interviewed there, I remember being one of the few from a mid-tier school, the vast majority of people had name tags saying Columbia, Stanford, Harvard, Case Western, etc. Beth Israel is not considered to be as good as the other Harvard programs and is less competitive but it is still an excellent program.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

That's a complicated question.
Pretty much everything outside of surgery and surgical sub-specialties are open for DOs in every region. This will not change in the future.
It's going to be harder and harder for DOs to match, especially after the merger takes full effect (mid 2020s) for surgery and subspecialty programs. The fact is that MSUCOM and OUHCOM did a lot of the heavy lifting in the past few decades, opening up a ton of surgery seats in their states and the rest of the COMs grads were taking advantage of them while opening little to no seats in their OPTIs. MSUCOM and OUHCOM have both expanded (more satellite sites, class expansion, etc.) and the state of Michigan has opened up a few new MD public schools. For example, I guess Beaumont Health, which had 2 DO surgery residencies affiliated with MSUCOM, will be a feeder program for OUWB, a new public MD school in Michigan.
DO schools are expanding and not opening up diverse GME opportunities in their OPTIs. And, the schools that did do their jobs, like MSUCOM, OUHCOM, NYCOM (now NYITCOM), WesternCOMP, etc, are being out-competed with new DO and MD schools opening. Another example, Broward Health near Miami, a hospital with many DO programs, was bought out by FIU because FIU promised to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars for GME expansion.
The fact is that matching surgery, weather MD or DO, is very tough. Getting into programs with in-house fellowships, like Baylor-Dallas or Cleveland Clinic, is even tougher.
I've started applying to electives and, believe me, most PDs, especially the younger ones, view DOs and MDs as equals. The only problem is that, in 80% of the cases, the MDs do indeed have a stronger application and we have to accept that. The other 20% of DOs that have as good apps as MDs, just apply in the DO match and save themselves the headache/gamble. This is for surgery. I can't comment on what will happen for IM/EM, etc.

Can you verify that the place of OPTIs post-merger will still serve as a source of close to guaranteed residencies for COM grads? This is a question I haven't found many answers to. I imagine schools will still be creating GME as before with the only difference being MD applicants will be able to apply.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[IslandStyle808]

Other observations I have as an OMSIII going into surgery are:
-The coveted CookCounty Uro match went to a PCOM-GA student. This will be an all-MD program next year folks. At a recent conference, UChicago and Northwestern students were already discussing applying to this program.
-Mayo clinic ortho match by the KCUMB student was impressive only because the program has a heavy research requirement and the applicant must have had some generous research experience to match there.
-PCOM's surgery programs recruit heavily from PCOM and LECOM (historically) but this year it looks like they will have students from all over the country.
-USC has always taken DOs in many of their programs before. Ya'll need to chill. UCLA and Ceders are the most competitive programs in LA.
-The Harvard anesthesiology matches aren't that competitive, especially if it's in MassGeneral. The BID program is more competitive, but even that is mid tear for anesthesiology.
- Cleveland Clinic interviews most of their programs based on board scores and class rank. So the ortho, gen surg, integrated vascular matches have less to do with being a DO than with scores/rank.
-Plaza Medical Center in Texas is a very competitive DO gensurg program that only takes 2 students. Surprised that PCOM-GA took a seat.
- PCOM's RadOnc match at Temple's Cancer Center is top tier. They are a huge referral center for cancer in Philadelphia. I'm curious if the student took a research year like the Integrates Plastics student. This year one of the faculty won a nobel prize. It's a top program.
-The Integrated Plastics match at UPenn is mind blowing. You won't see another surgery match of this caliber for a decade or more.
- RVU's Baylor in Dallas match is also really competitive. They have a ton of in-house surgery fellowships and it's a really sought after program because of location.
Congrats to everyone who matched!!

I think this year might have bolstered the most Rad Onc matches compared to former years (2014 had around 4 and most years were less). I didn't see Temple as being top tier in the Rad Onc forums, probably a Rac Onc resident could comment.

I wouldn't make competitiveness something that determines the tiers of programs (cannot comment on which program is more competitive). As Psai above has stated, anesthesia program at MGH has been considered by the anesthesia forums to be a top tier match for years. BID has been stated to be upper-mid tier. However, this doesn't go into the aspect of selectivity of these program. BID has been take DOs every so often for a few years now. Only recently has MGH taken DOs into its roster, so its probably been using a non-LCME filter for DOs for quite some time. I believe competitiveness doesn't tells the whole story of quality of a program and its selectivity for DOs.

The Baylor Dallas Surgery match was a very good one. The surgery program in Dallas is in a communo-univserity type program, and I believe is considered one of the top community programs in surgery based on the surgery forums (so it is a quality program!). However, we have to remember that it is also different from the surgery program in Houston, which is an academic program (a top one in fact). Best not to lump the Dallas programs with other academic program either (I know you are not saying this but just to let other posters know).

 

[FourniersGreenGang]

I think this year might have bolstered the most Rad Onc matches compared to former years (2014 had around 4 and most years were less). I didn't see Temple as being top tier in the Rad Onc forums, probably a Rac Onc resident could comment.

I wouldn't make competitiveness something that determines the tiers of programs (cannot comment on which program is more competitive). As Psai above has stated, anesthesia program at MGH has been considered by the anesthesia forums to be a top tier match for years. BID has been stated to be upper-mid tier. However, this doesn't go into the aspect of selectivity of these program. BID has been take DOs every so often for a few years now. Only recently has MGH taken DOs into its roster, so its probably been using a non-LCME filter for DOs for quite some time. I believe competitiveness doesn't tells the whole story of quality of a program and its selectivity for DOs.

The Baylor Dallas Surgery match was a very good one. The surgery program in Dallas is in a communo-univserity type program, and I believe is considered one of the top community programs in surgery based on the surgery forums (so it is a quality program!). However, we have to remember that it is also different from the surgery program in Houston, which is an academic program (a top one in fact). Best not to lump the Dallas programs with other academic program either (I know you are not saying this but just to let other posters know).

By the way, speaking of LCME filters, do you think programs will continue to do that after the merger is in full effect? I haven't heard whether or not that will continue to be a thing post-merger.

 

[DrBowtie]

The results are excellent. It was not long ago that Diagnostic Radiology was nearly beyond the reach of a DO. This list contains several DR matches. Wonderful progress.

Rads resident here. Not to be a wet blanket but the increased matching of DOs in Radiology has more to do with overall decreased competitiveness of the field rather than DO progress. Unlike Anesthesia, the top 10-15 programs still have no DOs.

 

[hallowmann]

By the way, speaking of LCME filters, do you think programs will continue to do that after the merger is in full effect? I haven't heard whether or not that will continue to be a thing post-merger.

Yeah, they will continue to use any number of filters as PDs have done since they were offered by ERAS.

Remember, PDs can create any filters they want. There's an LCME filter, but there's also an osteopathic filter, Step score filter, a rank filter, a research experience filter, they can filter by only top 20 MD schools or any assortment of schools they want, etc. They don't even have to use multiple filters. They can sort by one filter, then review the apps again by only applying another filter. They can use a Step cutoff, and then reduce it to review more apps or increase it to review less apps. It's all about ways to easily sort and analyze thousands of ERAS applications.

Bottomline is that there will always be something that programs use to filter you out. DO is a big one, and it will be, but with more applicants, with increased general acceptance of the degree, and with more DOs with better stats, I imagine things overall will improve (as they have for years).

 

[IslandStyle808]

By the way, speaking of LCME filters, do you think programs will continue to do that after the merger is in full effect? I haven't heard whether or not that will continue to be a thing post-merger.

Realistically speaking, it will be dependent on the program directors themselves as to whether they will continue to using the non-LCME filter. There is no incentive for them to focus on DO applications so it is best to assume the status quo for now. Unfortunately, it will be even more difficult to gauge which programs are anti-DO now. NYU cannot put their DOs cannot apply statement on their site, but can still filter their application out. So the merger has mad things both easier and difficult at the same time.

As hallowmann has stated above, they can create a filter for anything. I realized they are customizable, but didn't realize how specific they can be (makes sense why they are able to filter out DOs and carribbean students, but are able to pick out stellar IMGs from exemplary schools). Things I also think will get better. Anesthesia is slowly opening it doors more at the top (one can argue this is due to decreased competition, but that would need another thread), and hopefully other fields will follow suit.

 

[AwayFromReality]

Another example, Broward Health near Miami, a hospital with many DO programs, was bought out by FIU because FIU promised to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars for GME expansion.

I hadn't heard about this, do you have a source on it? As far as I know Broward Health is directly affliated with NSU, and all their residency programs are part of the NSU OPTI. That is also one of the biggest rotation site for NSU students. Their residency programs, especially ortho, consistently take NSU students. There have been no takeover by FIU from what I could find out.

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

I hadn't heard about this, do you have a source on it? As far as I know Broward Health is directly affliated with NSU, and all their residency programs are part of the NSU OPTI. That is also one of the biggest rotation site for NSU students. Their residency programs, especially ortho, consistently take NSU students. There have been no takeover by FIU from what I could find out.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/consumer/fl-broward-health-fiu-partnership-20141114-story.html

"Broward Health wants to offer MD residency training"
Talk to an FIU current third year and they will tell you that they are beginning to set up rotations and residency programs there.

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

The surgery program in Dallas is in a communo-univserity type program, and I believe is considered one of the top community programs in surgery based on the surgery forums (so it is a quality program!). However, we have to remember that it is also different from the surgery program in Houston, which is an academic program (a top one in fact). Best not to lump the Dallas programs with other academic program either

Like I mentioned, the Dallas program has a lot of in-house surgery fellowships and is located in Dallas. Dallas>Houston for many applicants. These two things alone make the program more competitive than other university programs in the country.

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

You are wrong about anesthesiology. Brigham and Mass General are considered to be two of the top programs in the country and are extremely competitive to even interview at.

Fine, I'll accept that. I'm not an anesthesiology expert. I shouldn't have commented on it. My apologies. But I have friends who just graduated who were interviewed at MGH and/or BID and ranked it lower than other programs. I thought it was based on rank but it was probably because of location.

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

Can you verify that the place of OPTIs post-merger will still serve as a source of close to guaranteed residencies for COM grads? This is a question I haven't found many answers to. I imagine schools will still be creating GME as before with the only difference being MD applicants will be able to apply.

Unfortunately, the OPTI has NO role in matching or ranking or anything like that. Their job is open residencies and help them in business matters once they open. That's it.
PDs and faculty and (in a minimal role) chief residents are in charge of ranking students for the match.
It's all up to the PD.
Some programs will definitely interview and accept MDs over DOs simply because of location or competitiveness. Like I mentioned earlier, the Cook County Uro and Neuro programs will be full MD programs next year. NorthShore used to have a DO Neurosurg program which flipped to the ACGME a few years ago. They haven't taken a DO since.
My personal guess (KEYWORD: GUESS) is that DO PDs will hesitate to interview MD applicants, especially those who have not rotated through the program and MDs will hesitate to apply to DO programs, especially in "undesirable" or "uncompetitive" locations. This will go on until the mid 2020s after which we will have more "mixing." Like I said earlier, I was at conference in CHicago and Northwestern/UCHicago students know about the merger and are preparing to pounce.

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

Rip current students' aspirations.

Honestly, the merger is best for everyone, especially for patients.
You have more options today than grads 5 years ago. And, like I mentioned earlier, if you have the board scores comparable to you MD counterparts, everything is open to you everywhere, even in SoCal, Chicago, NYC, Atlanta, etc. Surgery is the only exception and, honestly, is "low-interest" anyway, for both MDs and DOs. Lots of people in my class were set on surgery when they started school only to realize that they don't want to continue training for 10 more years (realistic time frame for residency + research year(s) + fellowship(s)) and go into something else and are always happier. It's the same in the MD world.
My best friend was set on ortho, did a ton of research, but, after his son was born, flipped to PM&R because he didn't want to spend the next 7 years in training and never see his son. Priorities change, interests change, competitiveness changes.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

Unfortunately, the OPTI has NO role in matching or ranking or anything like that. Their job is open residencies and help them in business matters once they open. That's it.
PDs and faculty and (in a minimal role) chief residents are in charge of ranking students for the match.
It's all up to the PD.
Some programs will definitely interview and accept MDs over DOs simply because of location or competitiveness. Like I mentioned earlier, the Cook County Uro and Neuro programs will be full MD programs next year. NorthShore used to have a DO Neurosurg program which flipped to the ACGME a few years ago. They haven't taken a DO since.
My personal guess (KEYWORD: GUESS) is that DO PDs will hesitate to interview MD applicants, especially those who have not rotated through the program and MDs will hesitate to apply to DO programs, especially in "undesirable" or "uncompetitive" locations. This will go on until the mid 2020s after which we will have more "mixing." Like I said earlier, I was at conference in CHicago and Northwestern/UCHicago students know about the merger and are preparing to pounce.

If they are associated with DO schools, won't there be some sort of priority. Just like in MD school associated hospitals?

 

[SurgeDO]

I'm hoping to match a surgical sub specialty this upcoming match.

It's scary right now. A lot of uncertainty. This will be the last AOA match for a lot of programs. All of the programs in the field I am applying are intending to switch over to the MD match next year (except for 1 program that is still on the fence).

It's amazing how swiftly these programs are switching over to ACGME.

 

[jw3600]

I'm hoping to match a surgical sub specialty this upcoming match.

It's scary right now. A lot of uncertainty. This will be the last AOA match for a lot of programs. All of the programs in the field I am applying are intending to switch over to the MD match next year (except for 1 program that is still on the fence).

It's amazing how swiftly these programs are switching over to ACGME.

I'm worried you are a tiny bit too late and I am completely too late (current third year). Damn merger....

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

I'm worried you are a tiny bit too late and I am completely too late (current third year). Damn merger....

Like I explained earlier, the merger won't take full effect until the mid-2020s. If you're board scores are comparable, you have an open shot at a lot of programs. If you're interested in surgery, do at least 4 away rotations at diverse programs that have taken students near your board scores. If your level 1 isn't above 660, apply to new programs. If you have a good step and level score (both COMLEX and USMLE) you're one step ahead of half the DO applicant pool. Gluck.

 

[hallowmann]

If they are associated with DO schools, won't there be some sort of priority. Just like in MD school associated hospitals?

It can never be a formal policy, but as is the case elsewhere, rotating at a program and doing well make you more competitive for that program and more likely to be ranked highly. By COMs rotating their students through these OPTI programs, they will be giving their students an edge over MDs that don't rotate there.

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

I'm hoping to match a surgical sub specialty this upcoming match.

It's scary right now. A lot of uncertainty. This will be the last AOA match for a lot of programs. All of the programs in the field I am applying are intending to switch over to the MD match next year (except for 1 program that is still on the fence).

It's amazing how swiftly these programs are switching over to ACGME.

Same boat as you. Many programs have already switched to the NRMP match and will not use the AOA match. This is great for us because it will allow us to potentially be apply for both the AOA and ACGME boards and open up more fellowship/career opportunities. The merger is, overall, a very positive move, even if it makes matching into a few select (small minority) fields a little bit more competitive.

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

It can never be a formal policy, but as is the case elsewhere, rotating at a program and doing well make you more competitive for that program and more likely to be ranked highly. By COMs rotating their students through these OPTI programs, they will be giving their students an edge over MDs that don't rotate there.

This has both positives and negatives. If XCOM rotates through XYZ MedCenter, PD compares students and students compete for the program. In the end, PD picks the best student (1) from XCOM and picks the rest of students from other COMs to have "diverse" interns. Also, we ALL mess up, especially during our first rotation. I'd rather mess up in front of a community MD/DO who isn't a faculty member at a residency program than a faculty of the residency program I want to match at.
But, yes, it is overall a positive if you are a good student.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm hoping to match a surgical sub specialty this upcoming match.

It's scary right now. A lot of uncertainty. This will be the last AOA match for a lot of programs. All of the programs in the field I am applying are intending to switch over to the MD match next year (except for 1 program that is still on the fence).

It's amazing how swiftly these programs are switching over to ACGME.

I know this was most asked above but I want to hear your opinion as I have always enjoyed reading your perspective. Where do you see the prospects of general surgery in the coming years?

 

[SurgeDO]

I'm worried you are a tiny bit too late and I am completely too late (current third year). Damn merger....

I do not envy you. I think your class is gonna have one of the rougher matches, but at least you'll have a better idea of which programs are gonna survive.

With that said, I think the added competitiveness and uncertainty that comes with the merger are gonna scare away a lot of applicants who are on the fence about certain surgical sub specialties. I cannot tell you how frustrating it was to set up auditions this year.

Me: hi my name is surgedo and I'm trying to set up an audition rotation with you this year. Do you plan on taking residents this year?
Program coordinator: not sure yet. Call back in a month.
Me: are you planning on applying for ACGME accreditation? How's that going?
Program coordinator: call back in a month.
Me: are you planning on participating in the AOA or ACGME match this year?
Program coordinator: not sure yet.
Me: will MD students be eligible for your program?
Program coordinator: call back in a month

Repeat.


A lot of headaches. A lot of uncertainty. Very annoying.

While the number of residency slots may fall, I also speculate the number of applicants for these spots will fall.

Just keep your head down and keep on grinding.

 

[SurgeDO]

I know this was most asked above but I want to hear your opinion as I have always enjoyed reading your perspective. Where do you see the prospects of general surgery in the coming years?

I don't know much about general surgery, honestly. All the DO programs around me sound like they are going to survive. I think you have a good shot at matching at an ACGME program as a DO anyway, so I don't think the merger will have too much of an effect. Crush your boards and get some research in and I think you'll be fine.

 

[SurgeDO]

Same boat as you. Many programs have already switched to the NRMP match and will not use the AOA match. This is great for us because it will allow us to potentially be apply for both the AOA and ACGME boards and open up more fellowship/career opportunities. The merger is, overall, a very positive move, even if it makes matching into a few select (small minority) fields a little bit more competitive.

Agreed. Very happy to be participating in this year's match.

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

I don't know much about general surgery, honestly. All the DO programs around me sound like they are going to survive. I think you have a good shot at matching at an ACGME program as a DO anyway, so I don't think the merger will have too much of an effect. Crush your boards and get some research in and I think you'll be fine.

I can vouch for this 100%. As long as you aren't picky with location, gen surg is doable for DOs with comparable scores (Step1 with 235+). But you need the USMLE. If you apply to MD GenSurg programs with just a COMLEX score, it doesn't matter if you have a 400 or a 750, it's going in the trash. Ortho, Neurosurg, Uro, ENT, and integrated programs are the ones that are the tricky ones. Optho is very open to DOs.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

I can vouch for this 100%. As long as you aren't picky with location, gen surg is doable for DOs with comparable scores (Step1 with 235+). But you need the USMLE. If you apply to MD GenSurg programs with just a COMLEX score, it doesn't matter if you have a 400 or a 750, it's going in the trash. Ortho, Neurosurg, Uro, ENT, and integrated programs are the ones that are the tricky ones. Optho is very open to DOs.

Optho is very open to DOs? I thought it was hard to match?



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[68PGunner]

I can vouch for this 100%. As long as you aren't picky with location, gen surg is doable for DOs with comparable scores (Step1 with 235+). But you need the USMLE. If you apply to MD GenSurg programs with just a COMLEX score, it doesn't matter if you have a 400 or a 750, it's going in the trash. Ortho, Neurosurg, Uro, ENT, and integrated programs are the ones that are the tricky ones. Optho is very open to DOs.

Where do you get that optho is very open to DOs? This is also a field that I'm interested in.

 

[Psai]

Where do you get that optho is very open to DOs? This is also a field that I'm interested in.

It's not true. Don't listen to that guy.

 

[AlteredScale]

It's not true. Don't listen to that guy.

Did you see any DOs at any of the places you were interviewing at?


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[hallowmann]

Where do you get that optho is very open to DOs? This is also a field that I'm interested in.

Its open comparatively. On the spectrum of surgical subspecialties, Ophtho is the most willing to take DOs. That said, you need to have competitive scores, research, a good LOR, and make connections (the same things you need to be competitive for it in the first place). Not many DOs fall into that category, but if you do, your degree is not going to hold you back as much as it would in other surgical subspecialties.

 

[jw3600]

Like I explained earlier, the merger won't take full effect until the mid-2020s. If you're board scores are comparable, you have an open shot at a lot of programs. If you're interested in surgery, do at least 4 away rotations at diverse programs that have taken students near your board scores. If your level 1 isn't above 660, apply to new programs. If you have a good step and level score (both COMLEX and USMLE) you're one step ahead of half the DO applicant pool. Gluck.

Dude I don't necessarily disagree with you but you have to stop acting like the authority on everything that is the match and the merger. It's especially ridiculous considering NOT A SINGLE PERSON knows the full details of the timeline and subsequent effects of the merger on the match.


And I get scores this week and next so I'll just go from there.

 

[JoeUSA]

Rads resident here. Not to be a wet blanket but the increased matching of DOs in Radiology has more to do with overall decreased competitiveness of the field rather than DO progress. Unlike Anesthesia, the top 10-15 programs still have no DOs.

That is because DR programs are highly competitive. A DO getting into any MD DR residency is an accomplishment to be proud of. The DO profession has made significant advancements.

 

[Bucks901]

Other observations I have as an OMSIII going into surgery are:
-The coveted CookCounty Uro match went to a PCOM-GA student. This will be an all-MD program next year folks. At a recent conference, UChicago and Northwestern students were already discussing applying to this program.
-Mayo clinic ortho match by the KCUMB student was impressive only because the program has a heavy research requirement and the applicant must have had some generous research experience to match there.
-PCOM's surgery programs recruit heavily from PCOM and LECOM (historically) but this year it looks like they will have students from all over the country.
-USC has always taken DOs in many of their programs before. Ya'll need to chill. UCLA and Ceders are the most competitive programs in LA.
-The Harvard anesthesiology matches aren't that competitive, especially if it's in MassGeneral. The BID program is more competitive, but even that is mid tear for anesthesiology.
- Cleveland Clinic interviews most of their programs based on board scores and class rank. So the ortho, gen surg, integrated vascular matches have less to do with being a DO than with scores/rank.
-Plaza Medical Center in Texas is a very competitive DO gensurg program that only takes 2 students. Surprised that PCOM-GA took a seat.
- PCOM's RadOnc match at Temple's Cancer Center is top tier. They are a huge referral center for cancer in Philadelphia. I'm curious if the student took a research year like the Integrates Plastics student. This year one of the faculty won a nobel prize. It's a top program.
-The Integrated Plastics match at UPenn is mind blowing. You won't see another surgery match of this caliber for a decade or more.
- RVU's Baylor in Dallas match is also really competitive. They have a ton of in-house surgery fellowships and it's a really sought after program because of location.
Congrats to everyone who matched!!

This also isn't accurate. There are very few DOs at USC.

 

[FourniersGreenGang]

This also isn't accurate. There are very few DOs at USC.

That depends on the department. There is definitely a DO resident in EM, arguably one of the top programs in the country, and the psychiatry department has several as well. Haven't seen any in ortho though!

 

[Psai]

Did you see any DOs at any of the places you were interviewing at?


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I saw a guy from pcom at upenn. I was pretty impressed because I hear it's pretty hard to get an interview there.

 

[AlteredScale]

I saw a guy from pcom at upenn. I was pretty impressed because I hear it's pretty hard to get an interview there.

Nice! I wonder if being in the vicinity of the other strong MD schools like UPenn helps the PCOM students. Like in terms of research or just having a better chance of doing certain electives.

 

[hallowmann]

Nice! I wonder if being in the vicinity of the other strong MD schools like UPenn helps the PCOM students. Like in terms of research or just having a better chance of doing certain electives.

Probably that (close proximity to UPenn and lots of research), and its probably a good idea to remember that individual connections in the area probably also helps.

 

[SLC]

Nice! I wonder if being in the vicinity of the other strong MD schools like UPenn helps the PCOM students. Like in terms of research or just having a better chance of doing certain electives.

ATSU-SOMA Tucson campus definitely gets plenty of elective and even a few core rotations at UofA. The Portland campus also gets OHSU elective opportunities.

 

[Imgonnatrymybest.]

It's not true. Don't listen to that guy.

Compared to GS or surgical subs, optho is open for DOs as long as you have the stats. In the past few years, there have been a few matches from my school.

This also isn't accurate. There are very few DOs at USC.

USC takes DOs in their EM, IM, Peds, Psych, MedPeds programs regularly from WesternCOMP and other schools too. Compare this with UCLA which hasn't taken a DO in the past 3 years since I started school.
Also, it taken a very particular student to match at USC. Not many students find the county hospital system a supportive learning environment.

 

[Bucks901]

Compared to GS or surgical subs, optho is open for DOs as long as you have the stats. In the past few years, there have been a few matches from my school.


USC takes DOs in their EM, IM, Peds, Psych, MedPeds programs regularly from WesternCOMP and other schools too. Compare this with UCLA which hasn't taken a DO in the past 3 years since I started school.
Also, it taken a very particular student to match at USC. Not many students find the county hospital system a supportive learning environment.

The IM program at USC has not taken a DO in their program for several years and is currently very DO unfriendly. No one I knew this year who went into IM even got an interview. Also to say there have been no DOs at UCLA is also not true. There are several DOs in the IM program at UCLA Harbor and Olive view and one or two in the EM programs there. Just a quick reminder for those applying this year, do not infer the relative competitiveness of a program by how many or how few DOs the program has taken.

 

[NurWollen]

That depends on the department. There is definitely a DO resident in EM, arguably one of the top programs in the country, and the psychiatry department has several as well. Haven't seen any in ortho though!

Their peds program is 25% DOs.

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[TheBoneDoctah]

Damn, you guys never end lol


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[DrBowtie]

That is because DR programs are highly competitive. A DO getting into any MD DR residency is an accomplishment to be proud of. The DO profession has made significant advancements.

Just because you think that doesn't make it true. There are decreased US MD seniors applying. There were 100+ open spots after the match a few years ago. Programs have compensated, changed their interview thresholds in order to fill which means more DOs.