Match Results Shows The Heat Is Up

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On Thursday, March 19, nearly 30,000 applicants to the National Resident Matching Program (NRMP) learned where they will obtain their residency training. The 2009 Match was the largest in history, with 29,890 applicants competing for 22,427 first-year positions.

Just over half the applicants (15,638) were U.S. medical school seniors -- 400 more than in 2008. The growth of US MDs as well as DOs and US IMGs over the last few years has increased the competition for positions. As a result, only 1,087 PGY1 unfilled positions were available in the Scramble for 1,072 unmatched US MD seniors and more than 7,000 other applicants.


Active but unmatched applicants in the scramble

Seniors of U.S. Allopathic Medical Schools
1,072

Previous Grads of U.S. Allopathic Medical Schools
677

Students/Graduates of Osteopathic Medical Schools
607

U.S. Citizen Students/Grads of International Med Schools
1,771

Non-U.S. Citizen Students/Grads of Intl. Med Schools
4,372

All Applicants
8,550

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/edu...cribe-to-gme-e-letter/most-recent-issue.shtml
 
The NRMP data. Pages 8, 9, and 12 are pretty informative. As predicted by Law2Doc, FMGs will feel the squeeze first.

I don't see how it's useful to pit FMG's vs. USIMG's, etc.

There's the visa issue, but for the best FMG's that not a big deal. There are plenty of excellent programs in many fields that will take a good FMG.

It comes down to applicant vs. applicant with USAMG's having a distinct advantage.
 
While I have to admit it helped my bruised ego to know that I went unmatched during an unusually competitive match :d it's really quite sad that it's getting harder for people to wind up with their preferred residency when *all* of us have worked hard and made sacrifices to get to the point of graduating as doctors.
Thankfully for me, I found a position that I like after the match, but I know some people still can't find a position at all, and I truly do feel for those people. I think it helps some people feel better to think that surely everyone who goes unmatched must be a weak candidate, but I truly believe that part of whether you match or not comes down to pure luck (like getting an interviewer you happened to hit it off with vs. one who was having a bad day). We tend to think that if you work hard and do well in med school surely it will pay off, but when there are lots of good candidates fighting for the same spots, you may very well be the unlucky person who just barely missed the "ranked to match" cut off - and then you're no better off than the person who never had a chance of matching at all.

At the very least, I wish it were possible to require that all open residency positions were posted at one central database (not just the ones that are open immediately post-match), so that unmatched people were not at risk of being further victimized by random bad luck if they miss out on an available position they would have been happy at simply because they didn't happen to have a "connection" or weren't in the right place at the right time to find out about the spot.

I keep saying on this board that my advice to premeds is don't go to med school at this point unless you will be satisfied in primary care. Now, that's not to knock primary care - it can be a good job, especially when many people in non-medical jobs work long hours for much lower pay, and no job security.
However, unless you experience it yourself, you don't really appreciate how heartbreaking it can be to fall in love with a specific specialty, devote several years of your life to trying to obtain a spot in it, maybe even get encouraging feedback from residency programs that makes you think you're sure to get ranked well there, but then wind up empty-handed (meanwhile you also see other people cheerfully celebrating that they got their #1 choice). It's a horrible thing to experience even if (like me) you're lucky enough to find a spot you like later on. I can't even imagine how much worse it would be for someone who winds up being forced to take a position in a specialty they never liked or saw themselves doing.
 
While I have to admit it helped my bruised ego to know that I went unmatched during an unusually competitive match :d it's really quite sad that it's getting harder for people to wind up with their preferred residency when *all* of us have worked hard and made sacrifices to get to the point of graduating as doctors.
Thankfully for me, I found a position that I like after the match, but I know some people still can't find a position at all, and I truly do feel for those people. I think it helps some people feel better to think that surely everyone who goes unmatched must be a weak candidate, but I truly believe that part of whether you match or not comes down to pure luck (like getting an interviewer you happened to hit it off with vs. one who was having a bad day). We tend to think that if you work hard and do well in med school surely it will pay off, but when there are lots of good candidates fighting for the same spots, you may very well be the unlucky person who just barely missed the "ranked to match" cut off - and then you're no better off than the person who never had a chance of matching at all.

At the very least, I wish it were possible to require that all open residency positions were posted at one central database (not just the ones that are open immediately post-match), so that unmatched people were not at risk of being further victimized by random bad luck if they miss out on an available position they would have been happy at simply because they didn't happen to have a "connection" or weren't in the right place at the right time to find out about the spot.

I keep saying on this board that my advice to premeds is don't go to med school at this point unless you will be satisfied in primary care. Now, that's not to knock primary care - it can be a good job, especially when many people in non-medical jobs work long hours for much lower pay, and no job security.
However, unless you experience it yourself, you don't really appreciate how heartbreaking it can be to fall in love with a specific specialty, devote several years of your life to trying to obtain a spot in it, maybe even get encouraging feedback from residency programs that makes you think you're sure to get ranked well there, but then wind up empty-handed (meanwhile you also see other people cheerfully celebrating that they got their #1 choice). It's a horrible thing to experience even if (like me) you're lucky enough to find a spot you like later on. I can't even imagine how much worse it would be for someone who winds up being forced to take a position in a specialty they never liked or saw themselves doing.

Hey Peppy,

Did you find a position in psych? Can I ask how you found it?
 
For this year I wound up in an osteopathic internship spot, no psych at this point (I'll try again next year). The people I talked to at my school were sympathetic but didn't have any "leads" on open spots, so I just called every program that I could remotely picture myself being happy at and asked them if they had any openings until I found one that sounded good.
Have you tried signing up with ResidencySwap and/or FindaResident yet?
 
For this year I wound up in an osteopathic internship spot, no psych at this point (I'll try again next year). The people I talked to at my school were sympathetic but didn't have any "leads" on open spots, so I just called every program that I could remotely picture myself being happy at and asked them if they had any openings until I found one that sounded good.
Have you tried signing up with ResidencySwap and/or FindaResident yet?

Oh ok. Well that's good. I did sign up with residentswap, but nothing. I've called countless places but nothing either. Congrats on finding a spot though!
 
I wish I could offer more help to you. All I can say is that if I were still looking for a spot, I think I'd plan on trying to call the programs again shortly before July 1st to remind them of my name and interest just in case they have a situation come up where someone doesn't show up as expected due to getting sick, pregnant, or whatever. If by some chance I do find out about an allopathic opening I'll let you know. 🙂
 
I don't see how it's useful to pit FMG's vs. USIMG's, etc.

There's the visa issue, but for the best FMG's that not a big deal. There are plenty of excellent programs in many fields that will take a good FMG.

It comes down to applicant vs. applicant with USAMG's having a distinct advantage.


The visa issue is a big deal . US citizens ought to have preference over foreign docs . Residency is funded by tax payer's money and it is only right that *certified US citizens get preference over non citizens .

* certified means that they have passed step 1, 2ck , cs and completed an MD program which included ACGME rotations .
 
Code:
Year    Total    Filled    Unfilled    USMG
          Spots                        Unmatched
2009    22427    21340    1087    1072
2008    22240    20940    1300    883
2007    21845    20514    1331    1005
2006    21659    20072    1587    949
2005    21454    19760    1694    921

Assuming the similar trend, there will be more unmatched USMG's than all available scramble spots next year.

Edit: damn table. That's as close as I can get it to being reasonable without smashing my computer
 
This year's scramble left me wondering how many of the positions technically listed as "unfilled" are truly even available to scrambling applicants. In my specialty, the NRMP listed about 11 "unfilled" spots for the scramble. However, once I and other scrambling applicants started actually calling the programs, we discovered that only about 3 of those listed spots were "real" spots that were actually looking for people in the scramble. The other programs told us that they had chosen not to fill the spot and were not considering scramblers at all - but yet the NRMP showed these spots as open.
Even with the 'real' spots, one program told me that they were only considering applicants that were geographically close enough to have a face to face interview that day, which I wouldn't consider a genuine scramble spot either.
So even though the statistics already look bad for scramblers, the reality of trying to get a spot in the scramble may be even worse than it looks!
 
As a program, if you do not plan on scrambling your positions if unfilled, there is no way to prevent them from being listed on the scramble list. We can update them immediately upon the start of the scramble, but the "dynamic" scramble list is actually only updated once per hour.
 
Code:
Year    Total    Filled    Unfilled    USMG
          Spots                        Unmatched
2009    22427    21340    1087    1072
2008    22240    20940    1300    883
2007    21845    20514    1331    1005
2006    21659    20072    1587    949
2005    21454    19760    1694    921

Assuming the similar trend, there will be more unmatched USMG's than all available scramble spots next year.

Edit: damn table. That's as close as I can get it to being reasonable without smashing my computer

That is a very interesting table which I have not seen before. IMO if we do get to the point next year when there are more unmatched USMGs than available scramble spots, we may see a chorus of calls to change the system so that we have an initial match for USMGs only and then a secondary match for FMGs for any leftover spots. I think the unemployed US grads will not be happy to see that FMGs have been given spots while they are left out in the cold. Next year will sure be interesting.
 
That is a very interesting table which I have not seen before. IMO if we do get to the point next year when there are more unmatched USMGs than available scramble spots, we may see a chorus of calls to change the system so that we have an initial match for USMGs only and then a secondary match for FMGs for any leftover spots. I think the unemployed US grads will not be happy to see that FMGs have been given spots while they are left out in the cold. Next year will sure be interesting.

If one looks at the graph showing residency slots and applicants , there was a time about 2- 3 decades ago , where there was a SHORTAGE of applicants for residency slots . Visa requiring fmgs took advantage of that opportunity . However , the situation is now changed , with way more applicants than spots and us citizens should not be shafted .Unless residency spots increase , their should be a separate match system for FMGs and US citizens . It bears repeating - US medical grads ( AMG , US IMGS ) should not be shafted in the process !
 
As a program, if you do not plan on scrambling your positions if unfilled, there is no way to prevent them from being listed on the scramble list. We can update them immediately upon the start of the scramble, but the "dynamic" scramble list is actually only updated once per hour.
It's unfortunate that the way the system is set up leads to scramblers wasting precious time chasing nonexistent spots (plus I would imagine it's disruptive for the programs to have scramblers contacting them about it). Too bad that there is no way for programs to opt out ahead of time if they know they won't be participating in the scramble. Even though I knew the scramble would be no fun, I never expected that so many of the spots would turn out to be false leads. If the ratio of real spots to false spots is anywhere near that level in other specialties, the pickings had to be pretty slim!
 
If one looks at the graph showing residency slots and applicants , there was a time about 2- 3 decades ago , where there was a SHORTAGE of applicants for residency slots . Visa requiring fmgs took advantage of that opportunity . However , the situation is now changed , with way more applicants than spots and us citizens should not be shafted .Unless residency spots increase , their should be a separate match system for FMGs and US citizens . It bears repeating - US medical grads ( AMG , US IMGS ) should not be shafted in the process !

You may want this to be true but there are currently no rules stating this. For example there are multiple FMGs with MBBS degrees in the UAMS Radiology Residency Program and an FMG from the Phillipines in the Duke Derm Residency program and from Brazil in the Henry Ford Derm Residency Program ( http://www.uams.edu/radiology/education/residency/diagnostic/current_faces.asp http://www.henryfordhealth.org/body_program.cfm?id=49994 http://dukederm.duke.edu/modules/curpastresidents/index.php?id=1 ). Do you really think there were no qualified AMGs that applied for those spots and did not match into rads or derm? However the situation does not compare to the IT field where there are firms which teach companies how to not hire Amercans (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx--jNQYNgA&feature=related )
 
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You may want this to be true but there are currently no rules stating this. For example there are multiple FMGs with MBBS degrees in the UAMS Radiology Residency Program and an FMG from the Phillipines in the Duke Derm Residency program and from Brazil in the Henry Ford Derm Residency Program ( http://www.uams.edu/radiology/education/residency/diagnostic/current_faces.asp http://www.henryfordhealth.org/body_program.cfm?id=49994 http://dukederm.duke.edu/modules/curpastresidents/index.php?id=1 ). Do you really think there were no qualified AMGs that applied for those spots and did not match into rads or derm?

Wow, that rads program is full of FMGs!
 
You may want this to be true but there are currently no rules stating this. For example there are multiple FMGs with MBBS degrees in the UAMS Radiology Residency Program and an FMG from the Phillipines in the Duke Derm Residency program and from Brazil in the Henry Ford Derm Residency Program ( http://www.uams.edu/radiology/education/residency/diagnostic/current_faces.asp http://www.henryfordhealth.org/body_program.cfm?id=49994 http://dukederm.duke.edu/modules/curpastresidents/index.php?id=1 ). Do you really think there were no qualified AMGs that applied for those spots and did not match into rads or derm?

So? Maybe they're just that dam good at what they do. Maybe they're personality exhibits someone who has profound knowledge and exceptional communication skills. They obviously had something that the AMGs didn't. This is a dog-eat-dog world; deal with it.
 
So? Maybe they're just that dam good at what they do. Maybe they're personality exhibits someone who has profound knowledge and exceptional communication skills. They obviously had something that the AMGs didn't. This is a dog-eat-dog world; deal with it.

Or maybe a key member of the selection committee is an FMG and likes to pull in fellow FMGs (I don't know if it is the case at these programs but I have seen this at other places).
P.S. I am an attending and long past the match so I don't have to "deal with it". If you are a med student you may be one who will deal with it.
 
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The visa issue is a big deal . US citizens ought to have preference over foreign docs . Residency is funded by tax payer's money and it is only right that *certified US citizens get preference over non citizens .

* certified means that they have passed step 1, 2ck , cs and completed an MD program which included ACGME rotations .

It's not about your tax dollars. It's about patient care. Residencies will take the best available candidate to take care of their patients - and they should.
 
So? Maybe they're just that dam good at what they do. Maybe they're personality exhibits someone who has profound knowledge and exceptional communication skills. They obviously had something that the AMGs didn't. This is a dog-eat-dog world; deal with it.

It would be a terrible thing if the residency application process became something like the medical school application process. It would be a terrible thing if medical school grads started resembling law school grads (many of whom are unemployed or working at ~40k government/public interest jobs). The stakes are huge. The debt most AMGs carry is enormous and cannot be paid down efficiently without a physician's salary. Medical schools maintain a highly rigorous screening of applicants precisely so they get people who will have a maximal chance of success throughout medical school and success in obtaining a (hopefully good) residency spot. To favor FMGs over comparable AMGs (and trust me, there are more than enough highly qualified AMG applicants for the job that derm and rads require) is a fundamental breaking of the implicit contract between the medical profession and the medical student when s/he decides to go to medical school.
 
It's not about your tax dollars. It's about patient care. Residencies will take the best available candidate to take care of their patients - and they should.

By that argument we should just scrap AMGs and bring in the best and brightest of China and India for all our residencies. Considering how huge their populations are, you could almost certainly fill all our residencies with people who perform better on exams and at the job than lazy, stupid, Americans, no?
 
If one looks at the graph showing residency slots and applicants , there was a time about 2- 3 decades ago , where there was a SHORTAGE of applicants for residency slots . Visa requiring fmgs took advantage of that opportunity . However , the situation is now changed , with way more applicants than spots and us citizens should not be shafted .Unless residency spots increase , their should be a separate match system for FMGs and US citizens . It bears repeating - US medical grads ( AMG , US IMGS ) should not be shafted in the process !

This is precisely what I have been saying all along.
 
It's not about your tax dollars. It's about patient care. Residencies will take the best available candidate to take care of their patients - and they should.

IMO anyone who thinks that resident selection is completely merit based and that factors such as connections, racial/ethnic biases, having fashion model looks, etc. do not come into play at all is completely naive. I remember visiting a friend of mine who was an ortho resident at an academic medical center a few years ago and he told me the derm residents at his place were nicknamed "the Barbie dolls" (as in we better get one of the Barbies to consult on this rash). In fact I am reminded of how I once talked to a derm resident who told me that she got a nose job and a boob job during her vacation month in the 3rd year of med school because she wanted to improve her appearance going into her derm rotations and interviews.
 
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Code:
Year    Total    Filled    Unfilled    USMG
          Spots                        Unmatched
2009    22427    21340    1087    1072
2008    22240    20940    1300    883
2007    21845    20514    1331    1005
2006    21659    20072    1587    949
2005    21454    19760    1694    921
Assuming the similar trend, there will be more unmatched USMG's than all available scramble spots next year.

Edit: damn table. That's as close as I can get it to being reasonable without smashing my computer

This year there were more U.S. medical school grads, including both seniors and past graduates of U.S. medical schools unmatched than there were scramble spots, or about 1,700 . . . the same number of USIMGs that went unmatched, approximately.

There are a lot of residency programs that don't participate in the match at all that take dozens of FMGs, and some programs that do participate in the match take a huge percentage of FMGs, mostly because I guess that USIMGs and AMGs don't want to go there.

There may or may not be more senior U.S. med students than scramble spots, but what could change this is that residency programs who traditionally take a large number of FMGs, may get more applications from U.S. med school grads or U.S. med school officials may make efforts to have their students apply to a residency program that traditionally each year has a dozen FMGs from India and other countries in their class. Maybe it would mean the class would be half FMGs and half AMGs, maybe this is a good thing as having a diversified group of residents to work with IS really fun.

The number of unmatched U.S. seniors going up could be, and most likely is a composite of a number of trends. What specialties did these U.S. seniors fail to match in? Possibly more U.S. seniors were applying for more difficult specialties such as derm, radiology, etc . . . we know that these residency programs may not increase their numbers constantly from year to year, but if US med school class sizes keep increasing, and with more interest for these specialties, then yes, there will be more unmatched U.S. seniors who didn't have a back-up plan, but probably figured on doing a research year and applying again for these specialties.

There is also a rumor that this year more USIMGs and FMGs signed contracts outside of the match and/or PDs feel more comfortable with a USIMG or FMG who has great board scores and evals than with scrambling . . .

I don't think that if there are more U.S. seniors than scramble spots that it means anything will change for U.S. medical students much, or for U.S. schools as PDs know there is great overlap in the product from a U.S. school and the USIMG or FMG. There are many USIMGs who get residencies like radiology, surgery, etc . . . and there are many U.S. seniors who perhaps failed multiple examinations and aren't suited for medicine but were able to please enough of their U.S. faculty with personality factors and graduate from a U.S. school. I know more than one U.S. med student who obviously didn't have the drive to pass their examinations on the first go, and more importantly weren't motivated to be a great doctor who got an IM residency at a mid-level place just because they were a U.S. senior.

There is such a strong history of evaluating USIMGs and FMGs on par with U.S. grads at many residency programs that I think that as allopathic and D.O. schools increase their numbers it won't mean displacing these graduates as PDs are very comfortable with taking a good USIMG or FMG over a U.S. grad who is sub-par. I am not talking about competitive places, but more community programs some with excellent academic affiliations that where an FMG or USIMG will be welcomed with almost open arms.

There isn't really anything special about a U.S. medical school education, and there is a sort of complacency as a lot of students from U.S. schools do derm, radiology, ENT, that the school administrators really let some of these schools fly on autopilot, as long as a medical student studies hard and work very hard on clinical rotations to learn clinincal medicine, then yes many USIMGs and FMGs can go toe to toe with USIMGs and do better than them in many instances.

I think that if U.S. medical school admit to many students, and they have trouble finding enough residency spots, then not even the connections of U.S. medical school faculty will be enough to place all of these students. Presumably there was/is a planned increase in the number of residency spots as more doctors will be needed in the future.
 
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IMO anyone who thinks that resident selection is completely merit based and that factors such as connections, racial/ethnic biases, having fashion model looks, etc. do not come into play at all is completely naive. I remember visiting a friend of mine who was an ortho resident at an academic medical center a few years ago and he told me the derm residents at his place were nicknamed "the Barbie dolls" (as in we better get one of the Barbies to consult on this rash). In fact I am reminded of how I once talked to a derm resident who told me that she got a nose job and a boob job during her vacation month in the 3rd year of med school because she wanted to improve her appearance going into her derm rotations and interviews.

I've heard similar stories too.
 
It would be a terrible thing if the residency application process became something like the medical school application process. It would be a terrible thing if medical school grads started resembling law school grads (many of whom are unemployed or working at ~40k government/public interest jobs). The stakes are huge. The debt most AMGs carry is enormous and cannot be paid down efficiently without a physician's salary. Medical schools maintain a highly rigorous screening of applicants precisely so they get people who will have a maximal chance of success throughout medical school and success in obtaining a (hopefully good) residency spot. To favor FMGs over comparable AMGs (and trust me, there are more than enough highly qualified AMG applicants for the job that derm and rads require) is a fundamental breaking of the implicit contract between the medical profession and the medical student when s/he decides to go to medical school.

U.S. medical schools may or may not have a highly rigorous screening process, but a lot of USIMGs who get their education abroad become excellent clinicians, and I know several US medical students who used their smoozy personality to get through medical school and were negligent as students. Certainly, many applicants to US med schools who are very high academic achievers don't get admitted to medical school in the U.S.. PDs know there is variability between US seniors, some of whom are at the bottom of their class and will be the one who get multiple lawsuits for being incompetent.

There are some FMGs/IMGs who have high board scores and great clinical evals and will be and are selected over an AMG who failed step 1 and other examinations. Just because a small committee at medical school in the U.S. selected someone to be a student doesn't make them magically more qualified than every FMG/IMG, . . .

The USIMGs who go to schools just as expensive abroad feel they also have a deal with their school to be a practicing physician, as probably do all medical students.

There already are U.S. med students who couldn't get into residency this year, about 1,700 (both U.S. seniors and U.S. grads total), and not all U.S. seniors scrambled successfully and must scramble again. The bottom of the barrel at US schools is not on par (or even better) than the best of the best IMG/FMG students who get residencies in ortho, even derm, radiology and surgery by the bucket load each year.

The war is already lost for U.S. med school administrators who figured their students would simply displace FMGs/IMGs from residency spots, because there are many, many FMG/IMG attendings and PDs in the country, FMGs/IMGs get fair consideration, everybody has debts these days. The situation gets worse for everybody, both USIMGs and AMGs, as there are less residency spots more competition, doesn't mean that FMGs and IMGs will stop competing though, far from it as there are tons of established schools around the globe that educate medical students to very high standards.

Even if say some medical school would have to say that "only" 95 percent of their graduates go on to practice medicine this won't stop them from taking students money for exorbitantly high tuition, and if they don't get a residency then at least they had the honor of getting a U.S. MD degree and can go into industry with it. As long as the vast majority of US med school graduates get a residency and are happy nothing will be changed. Getting into a U.S. medical school is not a guarantee of a residency these days for sure.

Sure I feel for U.S. med students and D.O. students who can' get residencies, but their schools should have seen how competitive their students would be against all of the world's medical schools' students, many of whom want to practice in the U.S. A goal of U.S. residency training is diversity and having USIMGs/FMGs does add diversity, if you have stellar board scores, a good work ethics and want to work in an underserved area of the US as a USIMG then perhaps you should get the residency over an AMG who failed exams and thought that their status as a U.S. med student would assure them a spot. Similarly, many FMGs have connections back home in their country of origin an educating an FMG may be able to bring knowlege back to India or elsewhere, . . . U.S. and D.O. schools made the mistake of thinking that their students were ALL more qualified than the USIMG/FMG pool, maybe only 75 percent of them are? Or maybe less? PDs want the best for their program . . .

The bottom 10 percent of US medical student who can't get residencies should have something to do, and U.S. schools should create something more than a physician assistant, but less than a resident, where they could practice medicine under supervision of a physician, earn a good salary enough to pay off debts and could apply again later for residency OR create a research track for those who can't get residencies from U.S. schools. Because this is happening and it is a problem.
 
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Presumably there was/is a planned increase in the number of residency spots as more doctors will be needed in the future.

No, there is no such plan to increase residency spots.

There are some very limited attempts to line up corporate sponsorships since the Feds are basically broke and not willing to fund more spots.

Here is one article detailing one plan that has been implemented.:
Faced with a work-force shortage and no new federal funding for resident training, the American Academy of Dermatology is expanding residency slots by using pharmaceutical company donations.
The academy's goal is to increase dermatology resident positions by up to 10% -- about 30 new slots -- per year. A pilot program will fund an initial 10 slots at $60,000 per slot per year for three years starting in July 2006.

Corporate sponsors contributing to the $1.8 million needed to fund the pilot are 3M Pharmaceuticals, Amgen and Wyeth Pharmaceuticals, Delasco Dermatologic Lab and Supply Inc., Galderma Laboratories and OrthoNeutrogena. The AAD also committed to contributing $1 million annually to the fund if pharmaceutical gifts fall short but declined to say how much of its own funds, if any, were being invested in the pilot.

According to the AAD, one-third of the 9,000 practicing dermatologists would like to hire additional dermatologists, but only 290 graduate each year.

The pilot is not without its critics. Jerome Kassirer, MD, former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine and author of a book documenting conflicts of interest in the medical profession, is one of them

Pharmaceutical funding is like a balloon, Dr. Kassirer said. When it's pushed in one place, it pops out in another. "Instead of CME, they're funding GME," Dr. Kassirer said. "Maybe soon we'll have the Merck medical student. Is this simply a ploy by the pharmaceutical industry to increase the supply of physicians who are prescribing expensive drugs?"

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/site/free/prl20718.htm
 
No, there is no such plan to increase residency spots.

There are some very limited attempts to line up corporate sponsorships since the Feds are basically broke and not willing to fund more spots.

There was basically a big lie that U.S. allopathic and osteopathic schools were increasing student populations to meet demands for more physicians in the U.S. in the coming years. It was/has been in newspapers everywhere. WE in medicine all know that residencies are where you learn medicine and where you make the new physicians which will be caring for people.

Residency spots are increasing slight each year, but US schools are increasing their spots at perhaps a much higher rate. The conclusions many people make is that this is an effort to squeeze out inferior IMGs/FMGs, however, I think that many U.S. medical students will have to compete in a global market place for medical students and will and are not getting a residency.

I would disagree that the Feds can't fund more spots though . . . say a resident costs $50,000 a year for salary and benefits, to add 1,000 more residents would be 5 million dollars, and to add 10,000 more residents would be 50 million dollars a year. Hmmm, a big number, but a drop in the barrel in terms of the federal budget. There are plenty of pork government projects in the hundreds of millions which could be trimmed. If the Iraq war costs 8 billion a month, then stopping the war a week early would save enough to fund residency training for decades . . .

The federal government is looking to spend money, i.e. prime the pump, and could easily up funding for more residents.
 
There are a lot of residency programs that don't participate in the match at all that take dozens of FMGs, and some programs that do participate in the match take a huge percentage of FMGs, mostly because I guess that USIMGs and AMGs don't want to go there.

Where can I find those programs?
 
There was basically a big lie that U.S. allopathic and osteopathic schools were increasing student populations to meet demands for more physicians in the U.S. in the coming years. It was/has been in newspapers everywhere. WE in medicine all know that residencies are where you learn medicine and where you make the new physicians which will be caring for people.

Residency spots are increasing slight each year, but US schools are increasing their spots at perhaps a much higher rate. The conclusions many people make is that this is an effort to squeeze out inferior IMGs/FMGs, however, I think that many U.S. medical students will have to compete in a global market place for medical students and will and are not getting a residency.

I would disagree that the Feds can't fund more spots though . . . say a resident costs $50,000 a year for salary and benefits, to add 1,000 more residents would be 5 million dollars, and to add 10,000 more residents would be 50 million dollars a year. Hmmm, a big number, but a drop in the barrel in terms of the federal budget. There are plenty of pork government projects in the hundreds of millions which could be trimmed. If the Iraq war costs 8 billion a month, then stopping the war a week early would save enough to fund residency training for decades . . .

The federal government is looking to spend money, i.e. prime the pump, and could easily up funding for more residents.

It actually it costs a bit more than 50K per year to fund a resident. However even if we use your 50K figure your math is off. 50K/year x 10000 residents is $500 million per year.
I do agree with you on the big lie. I have posted this graph below a number of times on this site but I think it is worth looking at again:
aamc.jpg

I remember reading that the average residency length is now more than 4 years (ranges from 3 years for Peds/Fp/etc to 5+ years for general surg/neurosurgery/radiology/ophtho/etc.) so that funding 10000 more residents would likely give you slightly less than 2500 new PGY1 spots, 2500 new PGY2 spots, 2500 new PGY3 spots, and 2500 new PGY4+ spots. As you can see from the graph this would not be enough to even keep up with the enrollment increases.
 
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It actually it costs a bit more than 50K per year to fund a resident. However even if we use your 50K figure your math is off. 50K/year x 10000 residents is $500 million per year.
I do agree with you on the big lie. I have posted this graph below a number of times on this site but I think it is worth looking at again:
aamc.jpg

I remember reading that the average residency length is now more than 4 years (ranges from 3 years for Peds/Fp/etc to 5+ years for general surg/neurosurgery/radiology/ophtho/etc.) so that funding 10000 more residents would likely give you slightly less than 2500 new PGY1 spots, 2500 new PGY2 spots, 2500 new PGY3 spots, and 2500 new PGY4+ spots. As you can see from the graph this would not be enough to even keep up with the enrollment increases.

Sorry about the miscalculation, from researching this a big more I find that in 2005 about 8 Billion was spent for graduate medical education subsidies by the Federal Government. While 8 Billion is alot, the military budget is many times this, and the Iraq war is about 10 billion or so a month (or was), . . .

I wonder if there is more to the addition of more allopathic and DO seats than just trying to catch up with FMG and IMG growth. If 200 residency seats are added each year over the next ten years this would roughly keep up with allopathic growth, maybe 3,000 allopathic seats would be added . . . but DO schools are really ramping up seats, so much that a lot of new DO schools would have to open AND existing schools would have to add a lot of seats. I guess I am wondering why?

I have heard that D.O. residencies often go unfilled, maybe this is a buffer that can soak up some of these extra DO students coming out of the pipeline. . . Maybe DO schools are planning on creating some new residency programs . . .
 
2009 Example numbers (for illustration purposes)
PGY1 - 22000
PGY2 - 22000
PGY3 - 22000
PGY4- 19000
PGY5 - 15000
Total is 100,000 - baseline

Now fund 200 more spots each year so
2010 Numbers
PGY1 - 22200
PGY2 - 22000
PGY3 - 22000
PGY4- 19000
PGY5 - 15000
Total is 100,200 (+200 over baseline)

2011 Numbers
PGY1 - 22200
PGY2 - 22200
PGY3 - 22000
PGY4- 19000
PGY5 - 15000
Total is 100,400 (+400 over baseline)

2012 Numbers
PGY1 - 22200
PGY2 - 22200
PGY3 - 22200
PGY4- 19000
PGY5 - 15000
Total is 100,600 (+600 over baseline)

So you can see that by adding funding for 200 residents per year for 3 consecutive years you do have much impact on the number of PGY1 spots and you do not keep up with enrollment increases.
Again this is a moot point because as the AAD article I posted above stated the feds are not planning to put any new money in to create more allopathic or osteopathic spots anyway. That is why the AAD has tried to get corporate sponsors.
 
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A new AAMC study released at the association's fourth annual Physician Workforce Research Conference estimates that the number of medical school entrants will increase by 21 percent by 2012, and that the nation is likely to meet the AAMC recommendation for a 30 percent increase in the nation's physician supply by as early as 2016.

According to the report, the number of medical school entrants will increase by 3,400 or 21 percent by 2012 when compared to 2002 levels. Nine new medical school projects are in some stage of development or discussion, and more than 86 percent of existing schools are expanding or planning to expand their enrollment. This progress signals a big step toward addressing the physician shortage, but another key component of medical education—residency training—also needs to grow, Salsberg said. Although graduate medical education (GME) has slightly increased its capacity over the past decade, these programs may not be able to keep pace with medical school expansion without additional support—namely, increased funding or an adjustment to the federal cap limiting the number of residency positions at teaching hospitals.

"Will teaching hospitals...continue to grow residency positions with no government funding?" Salsberg asked. "In the absence of more GME growth, the physician supply will not increase."
http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/may08/workforce.htm

My comment: The Feds are already up to their ears in red ink and the chances for more funding for additional residency slots are zero. Salsberg needs to change his statement that residency spots may not keep pace with medical school expansion to residency spots will not be keeping pace with medical school expansion.
 
To favor FMGs over comparable AMGs (and trust me, there are more than enough highly qualified AMG applicants for the job that derm and rads require) is a fundamental breaking of the implicit contract between the medical profession and the medical student when s/he decides to go to medical school.

Please tell us how many FMGs matched this year into derm programs.
 
2009 Example numbers (for illustration purposes)

So you can see that by adding funding for 200 residents per year for 3 consecutive years you do have much impact on the number of PGY1 spots and you do not keep up with enrollment increases.
Again this is a moot point because as the AAD article I posted above stated the feds are not planning to put any new money in to create more allopathic or osteopathic spots anyway. That is why the AAD has tried to get corporate sponsors.

I didn't mean to say that the small yearly increases in residencies will keep up with increased medical school enrollees, just that over 10 years, if 200 residency spots are added yearsly this is 2,000 more spots, which helps relieve the stress some on applicants. For some years US medical schools didn't add applicants and the percentage of FMGs/IMGs increased, not so long ago, and now they may be making up for lost time.

What is interesting is that if more residency programs are created then the students are there to accept them, this may be a case of putting the horse before the carriage, i.e. making sure there are enough students to fill the residencies (or at least making sure a good percentage of them are U.S. students.). . .

While 8 billion funds GME now, there is a lot of debate about who should pay for GME, and yes, 8 billion is a drop in the bucket compared to massive stimulus packages, I think 8 billion was dedicated by President Obama just to "get the ball rolling" in terms of getting high speed rail. If the political will is there then spending 4 billion to increase spots even 20 percent is very much possible.

Yes, the U.S. government is in " the red", but macroeconomics in terms of an entity as big as the U.S. government is very complex, although in "the red" the U.S. government will spend trilions of dollars in the coming year, due in part to the fact that foreign countries buy our treasury bonds. If somebody does a study that shows that training new physicians to provide primary care to senior citizens in the community to avoid hospitalization will decrease the cost of medicare in the coming years and decrease the burden on ERs then the government would release billions of dollars to do this. When you operate in such huge sums like the government it is not like a business where if you are in "the red" then you cut back everywhere and force yourself to be frugal. Quite the opposite, may programs expand even in the lean times we find ourselves in, each year the government spends trillions, and if there is a consensus that more physicians are needed it will get done.

The federal government, i.e. basically congress, does not use money on the scale that individuals use it, and in the amounts that government uses it is not really money per se, it is ideas. The Iraq War "costed" one trillion dollars because the president and congress at the time had the "idea" that either planting democracy in the Middle East, riding the world of a dictator, or getting oil, who's ever version you want to believe, was a good idea. This is why political will power comes into play. The real costs of the Iraq War can also be measured in lives lost, and even the possiblity of cheaper oil, the anger at the U.S., when the U.S. government "buys" something as big as a war it can help pull a country out of depression, like world war 2, and change how the game is played. If the government wanted to increase residency spots the issue of whether it is a good idea or not is more important that if the government can afford it, it can believe me, plenty of stuff could be cut if there was an attempt to generate a surplus, but realize a surplus is useless in a way on the scale the government operates, less gets done i.e. perhaps less government contracted work and this alone could create a recession. Which means less people paying taxes which means less surplus, so yes, the government has to keep investing in the country to keep generating taxes NOT profits, in the government's view of "money" it is something that circulates like blood in the body, you often get back money that you put into many different programs in the form of taxes, note that this is VERY different from how individuals use money, you buy a new washing machine and the money is gone, forever.

Only if the proper lobbyists and people with enough power agree that the right idea is to increase residency spots, then will it get done. If the price tage is 2 billion or 8 billion is practically irrelevent. There are tens of thousands of components of the federal budget if not hundreds of thousands, and many go up, many go down, and some stay the same. If the country has a little more debt, and pays attention to that debt, then maybe a slight majority of components get less funding, and many still get more. Its about tweaking the system and creating more residencies to make more doctors to treat the baby boomers is certainly a tweak that could happen in any budget environment. In actuality, if Congress does "give" 8 billion for more residency programs it has actually "bought" something, the right to decide, which it does now in a way, what patients are seen, and can provide incentives for rural practice and also for seeing medicare/medicaid patients, even the money that hospitals get for residency training, it it were taken away could force some hospitals into bankruptcy. So by increasing residency subsidies, the government would also be making it possible for more hospitals to survive, and perhaps allow for more hospitals to be built. Which, would effect the economy in a variety of ways. A study to see if this should be done would besides looking at if there really is or will be a physician shortage, would also look at impact on the whole system, which is really what the government cares about. In the end the government doesn't spend money (a lot of it comes back and the US government can print more money anyway and make money cheaper), but really support certain ideas and greases the system how it likes. Like toxic assets, which nobody knows what they are worth, nobody really knows how much 8 billion for GME is "worth" compared to what 8 billion for Iraq is worth. There is even a debate if government should fund GME at all . . . the government doesn't do it for profit, but to grease hospitals i.e. keep them running and to help make more physicians, in effect it is the government saying you should be doing it this way as there is a lot government input into residency programs. If there was a consensus to "privatize" the residency system then, yes, there is enough money for private coporations to start residency programs, i.e. hospitals in exchange for work and maybe even a committment to work for a corporation i.e. hospital group, and other reasons, . . . the government may actually get more bang for the buck by "financing" GME as the 8 billion buys more influence and control than 8 billion for our state parks . . .

You can give 8 billion to have credit markets unfrozen, but this is worth more than 8 billion for a new fighter aircraft that is rendered obsolete as it has been a long time since the US has been engaging in dog fights. This is why spending in government is so complicated, you aren't spending money, so much as renting or leasing an undefined entity which may grease the system, i.e. the world, or may cause problems, . . . nobody really knows how much 8 billion in GME funding IS, sure it is 8 billion, but is that as good as 8 billion to getting the ground going on high speed rail? Maybe. This is not exactly the same as a person on a budget prioritizing as these are all complicated investments and the budget is flexible. Even so, a lot residency programs exceeded their IME caps, I think for total around 4,000 residents so there is a motivating factor in terms of a perception of a physician shortage. Residency spots grew 4 percent between 1998 and 2004, largely funded by teaching hospitals funding them privately.
 
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For this year I wound up in an osteopathic internship spot, no psych at this point (I'll try again next year). The people I talked to at my school were sympathetic but didn't have any "leads" on open spots, so I just called every program that I could remotely picture myself being happy at and asked them if they had any openings until I found one that sounded good.
Have you tried signing up with ResidencySwap and/or FindaResident yet?
you didnt match in psych? Not to seem like a mean guy but how bad are you?
 
Couple comments.

1. Many students who did not match did not apply to places which went unfilled. Either they applied to different fields (derm, ortho, neurosurg, etc) or differnet geographic areas or both. Many were well qualified and were simply unlucky and slipped through the cracks of the match sytstem. My guess is very, very few unmatched students were "rejected" from a program (rather scramble than take him/her). Increasing the number of FM spots in BFE doesnt help the student who applied to IM in a whole bunch of cities. The folks I know who scrambled in rads were unlikely to apply to Arkansas simply because it isnt the most geographically desirable place and wasnt on their radar. (Never been there and know very very little abour rads programs - could be a hidden gem of a city or a program!) Clearly, if students had known they would not have matched, I am sure they would have applied differently. But hindsight is 20/20.

It is also very, very hard to apply to 2+ fields. Interview time is very limited. I definitely turned down a few interviews because dates conflicted. (Again, hindsight!!!) It is also hard to apply to a backup and look serious about it! It is hard to convince a GS PD that you really want to do gen surg if you did a home ortho elective and 2 away rotations. (Uhm, looks like a safety to me!!!) Same with derm applying to IM. Or rads applying to Peds or FM.

2. How many of the unfilled spots were prelim vs categorical? While getting a job for a year is great, ultimately you need a categorical spot if you want to practice medicine here. So matching at a prelim surg spot is a great short-term solution but ultimately doesnt solve the problem. Anyone know how the numbers reflect Cat vs Prelim vs Advanced spots (and how many of the unmatched were unmatched for a prelim yr with an advanced match or visa versa)?
 
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Despite all your wishes to the contrary, the Congress and President are not going to throw more money at GME to create more residency spots. The resident cap was put in place in 1996 by President Clinton and there has never been any serious effort to lift the cap since despite constant lobbying by the AAMC. Medical cost cutting is rampant and the government has now even cut back on student loan deferments. We will be lucky to see funding for the current spots preserved. In any case the FY 2010 budget has already been passed by both House and Senate and there was no increased funding for more residency spots so that the 2010 match will be here in 11 months with more and more students competing for a basically static number of spots.
The data to show a future physician shortage is a smokescreen anyway. As I recall aprogdirector pointing out in a previous post, a major reason for medical school expansion is a grab for more tuition money at a time when med schools are under financial pressure.
However it is more politically correct to say we are expanding to meet a shortage than to say we are expanding to get more tuition paying students.
If professional schools really cared about keeping the supply balanced, then why do you not see law schools all over the country cutting their enrollments since there is now an oversupply of lawyers.
 
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you didnt match in psych? Not to seem like a mean guy but how bad are you?
Oh thank goodness that you said you weren't trying to seem "mean". That totally cancelled out the pointless rudeness of your post. 🙄
How bad are you that you apparently did not comprehend the whole point of this thread that the match is becoming more competitive?
Unfortunately that means that even people who are not "bad" may end up being left out even if in past years they would have matched.

Your post doesn't bother me much because the truth is that I am not a bad student at all. I had no course failures or bad evaluations. My USMLE score was solidly above average. I got to see my LORs after I didn't match and they were complimentary. I received good feedback from interviewers. Unfortunately I canceled several interviews because I became complacent when the program director at my #1 choice told me that the choice of whether I matched there or not was all mine. Had I realized at the time how competitive this year was I wouldn't have made that critical mistake.

But even if I were a bad student, your post would still be totally inappropriate. Even if someone is a bad student, that person is still a human being, and it is still a devastating experience to not match.

It really shows what kind of person you are that you could read my post about how horrible it feels to not match and then try to make me feel even worse about it. Considering that the interview process is meant to screen out people who have attitudes like yours, you have no business feeling superior to anyone who didn't match.
 
Dwindling state general-fund dollars have prompted School of Medicine officials to explore increasing the school's enrollment to bring in more tuition revenues. The proposal calls for increasing the number of medical students from 528 to 640 over the next five years, finishing by FY 2009-10.

If enrollment and tuition are increased, the school could expect its tuition revenues to nearly double in five years, increasing from about $9.9 million to about $18.8 million.


https://www.cu.edu/sg/messages/3779.html
 
exPCM
There definitely is a physician shortage, particularly in some specialties and especially in certain areas (i.e. anywhere outside urban areas). I mean, my parents live in a pretty nice little town in the midwest with 35,000 people, with a nice university, that isn't too redneck, etc. There are two pretty decent hospitals there. There are quite a few surgeons, cardiologists, even some neurosurgeons. However, I think there is maybe 1 endocrinologist and maybe one dermatologist (who might even be one of those family practice or IM docs pretending to be a derm...). It takes months to get in with the dermatologist. There are patients who can pay, also...it's not some impoverished place where the doc would never get paid. So there is a physician shortage.

What the increase in med school enrollment means for the average premed is that
a) It's now a bit easier to get into med school vs. say, 10 or 15 years ago (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
b) Placement into your desired residency is likely to get somewhat more difficult in upcoming years, if you don't want primary care

Beyond that, we can't say a lot. I agree with Darth that if the gov't decides that it wants to (and it might) residency positions can be increased significantly. There are also places (like the med center where I went to med school) that have slush funds of money, and can create more residency spots and/or research positions if they want to. Also, as mentioned above, there might be privately funded residency spots (drug companies, etc.), though I wouldn't think the latter would make up a large number of spots.

I don't think we are going to see large increase in US-graduated med students who never get a residency. Either residency spots will increase, and/or at some point there will be a tiered system in which all the US grads (and/or US citizen and permanent residents) get to match first, and the foreign citizen FMG's are kept out of the initial match. It really wouldn't be that jingoistic, because I'm 100% sure that's what a lot of other countries do. If you aren't from the EU, I doubt you can just go over to Europe and do a residency. Ditto for Canada and most other countries, right?
 
Oh thank goodness that you said you weren't trying to seem "mean". That totally cancelled out the pointless rudeness of your post. 🙄
How bad are you that you apparently did not comprehend the whole point of this thread that the match is becoming more competitive?
Unfortunately that means that even people who are not "bad" may end up being left out even if in past years they would have matched.

Your post doesn't bother me much because the truth is that I am not a bad student at all. I had no course failures or bad evaluations. My USMLE score was solidly above average. I got to see my LORs after I didn't match and they were complimentary. I received good feedback from interviewers. Unfortunately I canceled several interviews because I became complacent when the program director at my #1 choice told me that the choice of whether I matched there or not was all mine. Had I realized at the time how competitive this year was I wouldn't have made that critical mistake.

But even if I were a bad student, your post would still be totally inappropriate. Even if someone is a bad student, that person is still a human being, and it is still a devastating experience to not match.

It really shows what kind of person you are that you could read my post about how horrible it feels to not match and then try to make me feel even worse about it. Considering that the interview process is meant to screen out people who have attitudes like yours, you have no business feeling superior to anyone who didn't match.


Listen man, im sorry for that mean post and you have every right to call me every name in the book. seriously. I had negative evals all over my deans letter just for dislcosure. I matched into anesthesia 7 years ago. It has gotten a lot more competitive lately. I honestly dont think i would be doing anesthesia now if i was in the match today. Not that anesthesia is such a great specialty, its not. anyway, dont dwell on the things you cant change. Do your osteopathic internship, do well. Moreover, next year dont try to match into the top of the top programs. go to the programs you like but arent necessarily tied to a big name program. this year try to see if you can secure a position outside of the match I wish you all the luck, i want to see you do well Im not a bad guy and once again i apologize for the remark.
 
peppy,
It sounds like you were just, "A victim of the match". You are OK since you got an internship, and probably you will learn a lot anyway...I actually think that everyone should have the opportunity to do something like a TY or rotating internship anyway...it would make us all better doctors, and so many students don't know what they want to do by the end of 3rd year anyway.
You should be able to get a psych spot, no problem. Just remember next year to not believe anything anyone tells you...PD's sometimes lie, or just make mistakes about how far down their match list they will end up going. Just make sure you apply to enough programs next year, and you should be good...also if you want to avoid the match, there might be good psych spots that come up that are posted outside the Match.
 
exPCM
There definitely is a physician shortage, particularly in some specialties and especially in certain areas (i.e. anywhere outside urban areas). I mean, my parents live in a pretty nice little town in the midwest with 35,000 people, with a nice university, that isn't too redneck, etc. There are two pretty decent hospitals there. There are quite a few surgeons, cardiologists, even some neurosurgeons. However, I think there is maybe 1 endocrinologist and maybe one dermatologist (who might even be one of those family practice or IM docs pretending to be a derm...). It takes months to get in with the dermatologist. There are patients who can pay, also...it's not some impoverished place where the doc would never get paid. So there is a physician shortage.

What the increase in med school enrollment means for the average premed is that
a) It's now a bit easier to get into med school vs. say, 10 or 15 years ago (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
b) Placement into your desired residency is likely to get somewhat more difficult in upcoming years, if you don't want primary care

Beyond that, we can't say a lot. I agree with Darth that if the gov't decides that it wants to (and it might) residency positions can be increased significantly. There are also places (like the med center where I went to med school) that have slush funds of money, and can create more residency spots and/or research positions if they want to. Also, as mentioned above, there might be privately funded residency spots (drug companies, etc.), though I wouldn't think the latter would make up a large number of spots.

I don't think we are going to see large increase in US-graduated med students who never get a residency. Either residency spots will increase, and/or at some point there will be a tiered system in which all the US grads (and/or US citizen and permanent residents) get to match first, and the foreign citizen FMG's are kept out of the initial match. It really wouldn't be that jingoistic, because I'm 100% sure that's what a lot of other countries do. If you aren't from the EU, I doubt you can just go over to Europe and do a residency. Ditto for Canada and most other countries, right?

I don't buy any of this talk of a massive health care provider shortage. PAs and NPs are being cranked out in record numbers. Projecting need into the future is not an exact science - here is a 2001 brief
: http://www.nihp.org/Issue Briefs/Workforce Newsletter.htm
In 1970, there were 308,487 active physicians in the United States. That amounted to a ratio of 151.4 physicians per 100,000 people. By 1992 the number of active physicians had risen to 627,723, making the ratio 245 physicians for every 100,000 people. This means that in the last two decades the supply of doctors grew at a far greater rate than the general population.
The IOM has not concluded that we have an oversupply of physicians today although some of its members think we do, but their report concludes we will have an oversupply in the future if the growth rate does not change. This in itself might not be a problem, but there is no firm evidence that an abundance of doctors has a beneficial effect on access, quality, or costs of health care. A surplus of doctors does not solve the problem of maldistribution either by geographic area or specialty. Federal resources for funding graduate medical education should specifically target the maldistribution problems in order to improve the health care system.
Nonetheless, most experts agree that even with an ample supply of physicians there are serious distribution problems.
So the fact that a town of 35000 does not have enough physicians does not prove a shortage. I have seen other places with too many physicians in desirable areas who are having trouble keeping their practices afloat due to local oversupply. A maldistribution of physicians is not equivalent to a shortage of physicians. There are just quite a few physicians who do not want to practice in a rural area or a slum. You generally do not see shortages of physicians in desirable areas. Increasing overall supply is a blunt instrument for increasing supply in underserved communities.
 
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I agree that predicting the necessary supply of physicians is difficult. I am saying there is an undersupply now IN CERTAIN AREAS. I never said IN ALL AREAS. I don't think it's just the super undesirable areas that need more doctors...that is what I was saying about the 35k people town that my family lives in. It's not a lousy place to live, it's not super-rural, it's not very cold in the winter, they have a shopping mall, a university, decent schools, etc. I think there are a LOT of places (outside of major metro areas in the Northeast and West) that still need more docs, particularly in certain specialties. As far as NP's or PA's, you just don't see that many of them yet, at least in certain states. I don't think they are the solution to fixing primary care, either, though I do think it's very possible the gov't might choose to try and provide primary care by just increasing the number of PA's and NP's...we just don't know.

With our aging population, I don't think it would be unreasonable to ramp up residency positions somewhat, along with expanding the med schools. I don't see any evidence in my area (500,000 people city) that we have too many internists...I get recruiter calls, letters, etc. and see help wanted ads frequently, and I don't know anyone who has had trouble finding a job.
I think that we should increase the number of residents in certain specialties, such as derm, at least a little bit. I also think we should try to make more residencies outside of huge metro areas (and/or have residents spend a few months rotating outside of the big city). I think it would be possible to do, particularly in certain areas. For example, why are almost all the residency programs in Illinois exclusively in Chicago? Why not put some more residents in Champaign/Urbana or Carbondale? Why not Evansville, Indiana instead of just Indianapolis?

We also have a pipeline problem, in terms of not recruiting enough students who aren't doctor's kids, or kids from large cities like Chicago, NYC, etc. and not enough African American students, etc. I know states have tried to address this, but usually with very blunt instruments (i.e. accepting students from "rural" zip codes in Indiana or Missouri into the state med school even if the parents are a wealthy doc and a lawyer, and not accepting other student(s) with the same or better stats, who grew up 5 or 10 miles away from them and are from middle class or working class families).

We also have a problem in medical school, in that many faculty try to convince students that academics is the only worthwhile career path, and that if you don't go to some famous big city residency like UCSF/Harvard/UCLA/Columbia, then you are going to get a crappy residency education.

I'm just saying, ex-PCM, that what you see (too many docs in the near future) is not anything like what I see (still not even close to too many docs in the Midwest and South). That is just what I see.
 
I don't think we are going to see large increase in US-graduated med students who never get a residency. Either residency spots will increase, and/or at some point there will be a tiered system in which all the US grads (and/or US citizen and permanent residents) get to match first, and the foreign citizen FMG's are kept out of the initial match. It really wouldn't be that jingoistic, because I'm 100% sure that's what a lot of other countries do. If you aren't from the EU, I doubt you can just go over to Europe and do a residency. Ditto for Canada and most other countries, right?

I like this system. I think it's great that foreign citizen FMG's can come to the US for fellowships -- the practice of medicine is one of our greatest exports.
 
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