mba in addition to md

[bbaek]

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i read some previous threads about dual degrees of md and mba, but i get a general feeling that a mba is pretty worthless.

in terms of the field that i want to work with, and that is pretty much third world hospital administration and construction of new buildings, is there such thing as an international business oriented mba? or what should my focus be if i also am considering getting an mph? is it worth getting an mba as well?

 

[medstylee]

i think that for some mba programs (most?) you can do some sort of a healthcare focus. i really don't know a thing about mba but i'm pretty sure i've heard of that before. good luck.

 

[oniwindu]

There are a number of joint degree MD programs in the US, so you can combine your medical studies in addition to another field of study. You can also do this for an MBA. I would just do a search for MD/MBA joint degree programs. If you do a joint degree, the time is usually shorter (instead of 4 years med school, plus two more years of MBA, both degrees might be done in 4 or 5 years total) and some med school classes (ie classes that focus on the healthcare system) can count towards your MBA program (hence the shorter time). I would think an MD/MBA would be very very helpful, especially in managing hospitals in underdeveloped countries where resources are scarce and must be optimally utilized. Additionally, most MBA programs would most likely require you to do a practicum of some sort, so you can choose to focus you practicum on hospital management in underdev. countries, or even hospital management in poor urban centers of the US.

 

[CanuckRazorback]

i read some previous threads about dual degrees of md and mba, but i get a general feeling that a mba is pretty worthless.

in terms of the field that i want to work with, and that is pretty much third world hospital administration and construction of new buildings, is there such thing as an international business oriented mba? or what should my focus be if i also am considering getting an mph? is it worth getting an mba as well?

I am just finishing up my MBA and it is definitely not worthless. I did a 1-year program that is not affiliated with a med school so it's not a dual degree program. I was able to do a concentration in healthcare administration and entrepreneurship, which is exactly what I was looking for.

You can pick an international business concentration at my school, but this option focuses mainly on emerging markets like China, not so much third world countries. I would look for a program that has a concentration in non-profit organizations. You might be able to get what you're looking for with an MPH. The best thing is to research schools and call them up. Tell them what you want to do and find out if they have a program that matches your goal.

Be careful if you decide to go the MD/MBA route. In some programs, your electives come from medicine so you don't get to take electives in other areas. There are a bunch of 1-year MBA programs out there and you can get assistantships so it ends up being free.

PM me if you need more help and good luck!

 

[Weirdo]

what's the advantage of having an additional mba. Do you get payed more. More of an administrative position.

 

[shantster]

i read some previous threads about dual degrees of md and mba, but i get a general feeling that a mba is pretty worthless.

in terms of the field that i want to work with, and that is pretty much third world hospital administration and construction of new buildings, is there such thing as an international business oriented mba? or what should my focus be if i also am considering getting an mph? is it worth getting an mba as well?

You might want to look into Master's of Public Health (MPH) programs. They have global focus which might be more relevant to what you want to do. They generally focus on what the needs of the communities in less developed countries moreso than an MBA would. In my opinion, an MBA would be more useful if you were staying in a developed country and doing the construction of hospitals, but I may be wrong there.

 

[oniwindu]

what's the advantage of having an additional mba. Do you get payed more. More of an administrative position.

If your goal in life is to be a CEO of a hospital or an HMO, having an MD/MBA definitely helps. On the more short-term side, I've heard that when applying for residencies, having that MBA can distinguish you a bit from all the other MD-only applicants. Gives you a slight edge, I guess, if the residency committee feels that your business background can contribute to aspects of their hospital management (if they're looking for that sort of help).

 

[nico05]

i read some previous threads about dual degrees of md and mba, but i get a general feeling that a mba is pretty worthless.

in terms of the field that i want to work with, and that is pretty much third world hospital administration and construction of new buildings, is there such thing as an international business oriented mba? or what should my focus be if i also am considering getting an mph? is it worth getting an mba as well?

An MBA in hospital administration or even an MBA/JD (focus on international law) might be the way to go. It seems as if your sole focus is on administration, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know where you're coming from (wanted to be a doctor, still want to? I assume), but this is a round about way of being an administrator. Besides that, sure you can find an MBA program to suite your needs, I don't know if it will say "MBA, Third World Hospital Administrator" (I'm not trying to be a smart-ass) but something geared towards international health care may be appropriate. Good luck!

 

[notdeadyet]

If you talk to people in the business world who have worked for a while, you would be very hard pressed to find any difference in the ability or knowledge between someone who has an MBA vs. not. It's a handy degree because it crams in lots of knowledge that people usually learn iteratively and you have that going out of the gate. But once you've been working for a while, everyone's on the same playing field.

I would _definitely_ not recommend limiting your choice of medical schools to where they offer joint MD/MBA programs. If the school you want to go to has it, cool, but don't go to one you like less for it.

Most doctor's with MBAs are not doing joint programs but getting them after medical school, often years after. There are _loads_ of MBA programs designed for working professionals (usually called "executive MBAs") that you can easily work into a full-time working schedule.

 

[CanuckRazorback]

If you talk to people in the business world who have worked for a while, you would be very hard pressed to find any difference in the ability or knowledge between someone who has an MBA vs. not. It's a handy degree because it crams in lots of knowledge that people usually learn iteratively and you have that going out of the gate. But once you've been working for a while, everyone's on the same playing field.

I tend to disagree with that. If everyone's on the same playing field after working for a while, then why do so many people go back to get their MBA in an executive program? The MBA opens up a lot of doors and opportunities for advancement. Of course, it's not worth getting an MBA is you aren't interested in administrative duties or entrepreneurial ventures.

Also, business people are incredibly connected. The ability to network while you are in graduate business school is something that shouldn't be overlooked.
I've had the chance to meet and present to venture capitalists/corporate CEOs/etc. and that would have never happened had I not been an MBA student.

I would _definitely_ not recommend limiting your choice of medical schools to where they offer joint MD/MBA programs. If the school you want to go to has it, cool, but don't go to one you like less for it.

Most doctor's with MBAs are not doing joint programs but getting them after medical school, often years after. There are _loads_ of MBA programs designed for working professionals (usually called "executive MBAs") that you can easily work into a full-time working schedule.

Now, I couldn't agree more with you on these two points. Some schools even have executive programs specifically targeting physicians. UC-San Diego has an MAS program in Healthcare Leadership for instance.

 

[bbaek]

thanks for all the responses.

let me clarify some points that i did not make clear from my first post.

i still want to be a general surgeon and that will never change. i know that later on, my hands will not be the same, and at the same time, i would like to continue helping ppl by providing healthcare and hospitals to those who need them, either in the third world or the united states. location does not matter, need does.

i read some lit on mph and mba. but i am not sure if there is a clear distinction. i know at the world level, credibility means everything, from presidents down to the local farmer. credibility speaks a ton and i know a couple letters after my name can do a great deal w/o having me to explain. if i am able to do business, such as become a successful businessman to pitch for certain projects (charitable organization work is what i plan to do), then i can see the benefits of the mba. but is the mph just for greater management skills or what?

and canuckrazor, i definitely agree with your point. executive programs are definitely a plus, and i know that not all business schools are the same. the top ones are the worthwhile ones, and surely will help to obtain the greatest connections out there. that's what i need if i plan to build more than one hospital and church in my lifetime. i just need to know what type of mba program i need to do if it involves an international charity organization, and the way to connect and sell the idea of helping others both abroad and at home.

i hope you guys got a better picture and hopefully this thread will be more informative than the previous md/mba or md/mph or md/mba/mph threads out there. and the last one, that looks pretty cool to have those letters all behind your name, isn't it? 😉

 

[notdeadyet]

I tend to disagree with that. If everyone's on the same playing field after working for a while, then why do so many people go back to get their MBA in an executive program? The MBA opens up a lot of doors and opportunities for advancement.

I agree with you. The MBA does open a lot of doors and opportunities. What I said was that an MBA course doesn't give you any _knowledge_ or _technique_ that you can not gain through professional, on-the-job experience. The right MBA can do wonders for your career, but I'm concerned that sometimes some of the young pups out there feel that they'll get something out of it that they won't get through proper work experience.

And all potential MBA students take note when I say "the right MBA". Too many folks go on with the idea of "gotta get an MBA". There have been MANY articles written in the business rags and studies done that have shown that MBAs simply do not pay for themselves unless they are top programs. An unknown program's degree may be better than not having an MBA, but it won't pay for itself through the years.

This is not to say that everyone neads to go to Wharton, but make sure the program you're going to has a well known reputation in your field or your regional area. If it doesn't, the only thing the MBA will give you is entitle you to say "I have an MBA" and apply for jobs that absolutely require it.

Also, business people are incredibly connected. The ability to network while you are in graduate business school is something that shouldn't be overlooked. I've had the chance to meet and present to venture capitalists/corporate CEOs/etc. and that would have never happened had I not been an MBA student.

Quite right. Again, this is what I mean about an MBA accelerating your knowledge and skill level. The chance to meet and present to the Big Boys is not something people at a certain age/experience level would get without an MBA program. But if you enter the workforce and get the practical experience, you can do it that way too.

Some schools even have executive programs specifically targeting physicians. UC-San Diego has an MAS program in Healthcare Leadership for instance.

That sounds like it would be perfect for the MBA/MD types. And UC San Diego has an excellent health reputation, so I'm sure the program is well regarded. Good recommendation.

 

[notdeadyet]

i still want to be a general surgeon and that will never change. i know that later on, my hands will not be the same, and at the same time, i would like to continue helping ppl by providing healthcare and hospitals to those who need them, either in the third world or the united states. location does not matter, need does.

Very noble. And I'm sure someone with years of surgical experience would be very welcomed. And you can also do volunteer work as a surgeon for groups like MSF (Doctors Without Borders) who accept short term assignments for as little as six weeks.

i read some lit on mph and mba. but i am not sure if there is a clear distinction.

There is an absolutely HUGE distinction between the two. It's a very, very important distinction:

MBA = Masters of Business Administration. This means how to run and manage a business.
MPH = Masters of Public Health. This means how to run and manage public health programs.

MBA's are all about starting and managing businesses. And "managing" a business means making it grow (try telling a potential employer your goal is to make their business a better one, but you're happy with the size it's at right now).

People will talk about wanting to improve brand awareness, lower price point, increase productivity, better supply chain automation, etc. etc. but all of these lend themselves to making businesses more profitable.

Not so many years ago, people interested in the non-profit sector would completely avoid the MBA route, due to the profit-centric focus of the degree and business philosophy. That has changed lately not because the MBA philosophy has changed so much as the non-profit sector has. NGO's now realize that they need to operate like for-profit businesses and maximize their return. The only difference is that their return is not measured in the increase in revenue to shareholders but in the scope/size/quality of services delivered to their target group.

An MPH is a totally different animal. This degree can be quite clinical and focuses on the creation and management of organizations that deliver health programs to the public. Period. Unlike the MBA program, you will not be taking required courses in marketing, branding, financial forecasting, etc. You may find yourself taking courses in epidemiology, statistical research, etc.

An MPH would be a great degree even if you work for a for-profit hospital. And an MBA would be a great degree even if you want to go the public health route. There is some overlap in terms of analysis, leadership, critical thinking, etc.

But in the big picture, an MPH is better suited to an MD interested in the delivery of public health care (be it the local non-profit, the Department of Health or international NGOs). And an MBA is better suited to an MD interested in leadership positions in business (be it running a successful private practice or a leadership position at a top hospital).

Too tired to reread my post, but please know I'm not judgemental about either degree. They both have potential value, they're just designed for very different things.

 

[xadmin]

Seriously, go get a MBA from top 10 programs. MPH = worthless.

 

[LizzyM]

Hospital administrators have been coming out of MPH programs (also MHA = Master of Hospital Administration) for decades.

The MBA focuses on the health and survival of a business.

The MPH focuses on the health of the population. Management is one of the core areas of all public health degrees and can be a "concentration". Some schools that offer the MPH also offer the MBA and there is considerable cross registration between the two.

The world changes and you might want to consider doing either the MPH or the MBA after you've been in practice 20 years and you are ready to move into a different area of expertise. The contacts you make then will be far more important than the contacts you make now will be 20 years from now. You'll bring more experience & wisdom to the classroom as a weekend student who is also a surgeon.

 

[oniwindu]

then[/I] will be far more important than the contacts you make now will be 20 years from now. You'll bring more experience & wisdom to the classroom as a weekend student who is also a surgeon.

On the other hand, the connections that you make doing an MBA soon will open a lot of career opportunities for you now. It's useful to start making connections as early as possible, rather than later during a career. You always build on a connection, and the contacts that you make don't necessarily diminish as the years go on. In fact, if your contacts begin to retire, it doens't mean they stop being your contact. Because they've been around for so long, they will open large networks of colleagues for you to tap into.

 

[bbaek]

thanks once again for all the valuable input.

for the most part, many of your advice has helped to understand a bit more of the path that i need to take.

more advice can definitely be used and i will get a bit more info for those who don't seem to be solid on my goals.

1. don't want to volunteer with organizations like doctors w/o borders, not to say they do not do great things, but i want to be able to found my own international charity/humanitarian organization that incorporates more of faith rather than just good works.

2. want to build hospitals and churches and homes.

3. need capital from somewhere and i most definitely would not have it, therefore the business connections while getting a mba at a prestigious school is definitely a plus.

4. hospital administration is definitely important especially when someone wants to build and maintain numerous hospitals both in the developed and undeveloped countries.

5. credibility speaks everything. those who have education have so many more opportunities than those who do not. that's just how the world works. with more education, training, and connections, it would definitely help in undertaking some of these big visions and goals

 

[xadmin]

5. credibility speaks everything. those who have education have so many more opportunities than those who do not. that's just how the world works. with more education, training, and connections, it would definitely help in undertaking some of these big visions and goals

Yes, I show my credibility through my work. I don't consider school to be much help.

 

[Learfan]

The MBA is just a bunch of hype and nonsense dressed up as scholarship so it can be sold at a high price. Pure smoke and mirrors. This degree is only valuble if you lack any significant credential that will allow you to participate in the work force. It is usually a means for those whose undergraduate majors were not useful or who earned very substandard grades to remediate their undergraduate mistakes.

For all of the critics who will naysay me, I have an MBA, attended a top 20 university and graduated with a 3.8. The degree failed to open any doors to career advancement. The MBA is the single most frequently issued academic credential in the United States with over 700 academic institutions printing them. They charge high fees and then sit hundreds of students down in the same lecture hall to hear one professor discourse on accounting, marketing, finance or whatever. Notice the instructor to student ratio. Over one hundred students often pay to hear one professor. The profits are terrific which is why these degrees are marketed so heavily. No costly labs, just one professor, one lecture hall and many tuition paying students.

Please note that the number of applicants to MBA programs has fallen by over 30% since 1998 (Business Week). Industry interest in people with such credentials has fallen dramatically and individuals now realize that the degree represents a poor investment of both time and money. In my finance course, they even gave us an article that discussed a study showing how attending an MBA program rated below 17 on the current listing had a negative NPV. AND THERE ARE OVER 700 SCHOOLS PRINTING THESE WORTHLESS CREDENTIALS.

If you want most of the benefits of an MBA, take a one year finance course. Learning how money works will assist you in almost any career. Reading a good macroeconomics text will introduce you to many sectors of the economy that technical workers rarely glimse. As for the MBA degree, save your time, effort and money for something worthwhile. Getting an MD is tough enough. This will not enhance your career.

 

[bbaek]

The MBA is just a bunch of hype and nonsense dressed up as scholarship so it can be sold at a high price. Pure smoke and mirrors. This degree is only valuble if you lack any significant credential that will allow you to participate in the work force. It is usually a means for those whose undergraduate majors were not useful or who earned very substandard grades to remediate their undergraduate mistakes.

For all of the critics who will naysay me, I have an MBA, attended a top 20 university and graduated with a 3.8. The degree failed to open any doors to career advancement. The MBA is the single most frequently issued academic credential in the United States with over 700 academic institutions printing them. They charge high fees and then sit hundreds of students down in the same lecture hall to hear one professor discourse on accounting, marketing, finance or whatever. Notice the instructor to student ratio. Over one hundred students often pay to hear one professor. The profits are terrific which is why these degrees are marketed so heavily. No costly labs, just one professor, one lecture hall and many tuition paying students.

Please note that the number of applicants to MBA programs has fallen by over 30% since 1998 (Business Week). Industry interest in people with such credentials has fallen dramatically and individuals now realize that the degree represents a poor investment of both time and money. In my finance course, they even gave us an article that discussed a study showing how attending an MBA program rated below 17 on the current listing had a negative NPV. AND THERE ARE OVER 700 SCHOOLS PRINTING THESE WORTHLESS CREDENTIALS.

If you want most of the benefits of an MBA, take a one year finance course. Learing how money works will assist you in almost any career. Reading a good macroeconomics text will introduce you to many sectors of the economy that technical workers rarely glimse. As for the MBA degree, save your time, effort and money for something worthwhile. Getting an MD is tough enough. This will not enhance your career.

so did you attend a school that was ranked 18-20?

just kidding.

but seriously, i believe a top 5 school will help me learn things that i could not through experience.

 

[bbaek]

anyone else have advice whether to get an mba with md?

or even better, what schools have a great md/mba program?

 

[blump]

anyone else have advice whether to get an mba with md?

or even better, what schools have a great md/mba program?

University of Chicago has a great MD/MBA program. I think the business school is ranked #1 by the economist and #2 by business week. It is a very well regarded program.

 

[notdeadyet]

anyone else have advice whether to get an mba with md?

The only debate going on here is the relative value of an MBA at all. It doesn't look like anyone is recommending getting an MBA concurrently with an MD. The fact that so few schools offer it is probably pretty indicative of something.

 

[Shredder]

more schools are starting to offer md mba as ppl are starting to realize the role of business in medicine. or maybe they want more profit. i dont think schools really have spectacular md/mba programs specifically, but a highly ranked school in medicine and business should fall under this category. i agree with someone else who said forget about the MPH, it seems silly to me. also, i think too many letters signifying degrees after a name looks bad. how many degrees does it take for someone to attain success? bill gates-0 letters.

 

[fishtacos]

slightly off topic, but what can you do differently with a MPA vs. a MPH?

 

[bbaek]

slightly off topic, but what can you do differently with a MPA vs. a MPH?

that's kinda what i want to know as well. 😱

 

[Shredder]

University of Chicago has a great MD/MBA program. I think the business school is ranked #1 by the economist and #2 by business week. It is a very well regarded program.

harvard business school is hands down the best in the world. theres no way economist or anyone ranked chicago higher than hbs. penn comes in 2nd pretty much always. then stanford, northwestern. chicago is at the lower end of top 10 b schools. their med school is around 20 as is northwesterns, im glad for that so i can apply there with a good chance of getting in. b school admissions are much more logical than med school so that parts not a worry. chicagos a nice city...i would look forward to going there but columbia would be a dream and dartmouth seems nice too.

as for "md/mba" programs, the integration is better than if you were to do them separately, but the fact that only a handful of students pursue this track at any given school means you cant really rank the combined programs, you just have to look at the separate rankings and combine them basically.

rockefeller is supposedly the richest guy the world has ever seen in adjusted dollars. his net worth was a few percent of americas gdp. i thought he had his own school though in the northeast somewhere.

 

[bbaek]

then would you suggest someone who did not get into harvard med but wanted to go to harvard business to just finish up his med school training and residency AND THEN try to apply to harvard business school to get that degree or just do a dual degree md/mba at the same school, even if the business school is ranked 10-20.

harvard business school is hands down the best in the world. theres no way economist or anyone ranked chicago higher than hbs. penn comes in 2nd pretty much always. then stanford, northwestern. chicago is at the lower end of top 10 b schools. their med school is around 20 as is northwesterns, im glad for that so i can apply there with a good chance of getting in. b school admissions are much more logical than med school so that parts not a worry. chicagos a nice city...i would look forward to going there but columbia would be a dream and dartmouth seems nice too.

as for "md/mba" programs, the integration is better than if you were to do them separately, but the fact that only a handful of students pursue this track at any given school means you cant really rank the combined programs, you just have to look at the separate rankings and combine them basically.

rockefeller is supposedly the richest guy the world has ever seen in adjusted dollars. his net worth was a few percent of americas gdp. i thought he had his own school though in the northeast somewhere.

 

[Code Brown]

I would recommend getting it after you get your MD. Getting your MBA is all about the connections you will make in b-school so where you go is even more important than law school. Plus, it's a whole lot easier to get into a top-10 b-school program once you've got that MD attached to your name. Also, you probably won't get as much out of the MBA unless you've worked in the real world for a couple of years.

 

[Law2Doc]

harvard business school is hands down the best in the world. theres no way economist or anyone ranked chicago higher than hbs. penn comes in 2nd pretty much always. then stanford, northwestern. chicago is at the lower end of top 10 b schools. their med school is around 20 as is northwesterns, im glad for that so i can apply there with a good chance of getting in. b school admissions are much more logical than med school so that parts not a worry. chicagos a nice city...i would look forward to going there but columbia would be a dream and dartmouth seems nice too.

Just FYI, US News rankings currently list the top ten business schools as follows:
1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Wharton (Penn)
4. MIT (Sloan)
5. Northwestern (MIT)
6. Dartmouth (Tuck)
7. Berkeley (Haas)
8. Chicago
9. Columbia
10. U of Mich.
As for what you can do with an MBA, there seems to be a lot of focus on this thread on hospital administration. I'm sure a lot of people with MBA's do go into this field, but it is just one possible road. A real value of an MD/MBA, I would think, would be in actual for-profit health related industry -- pharmaceuticals, medical devices/hardware, insurance (HMOs), finance (esp. investment analysis of healthcare products and services) and management consulting for healthcare. I would also note that there is probably not huge value of getting an MBA right out of college -- lots of b-schools require individuals to have worked first for this reason, lots of industries offer significant raises and management tracks for their employees who go back and get an MBA, and as noted lots of "executive MBA" programs are springing up -- because the skills learned in businesss school are frequently regarded more as "add on" skills.
(As for the poster who wants to "build" hospitals, I don't think an MD is going to be particularly useful for this track - there is no medicine involved. You really want to go into real estate development or nonprofit management, and possibly will be expected to pick up an MBA at some point along the way - a JD could be useful as well. The real skillsets involved will involve an ability to negotiate, to raise capital from investors, and having a lot of patience when dealing with bankers, lenders, government agencies and attorneys in hashing out the various bond, syndication and development partnership deals.)

 

[blump]

harvard business school is hands down the best in the world. theres no way economist or anyone ranked chicago higher than hbs. penn comes in 2nd pretty much always. then stanford, northwestern. chicago is at the lower end of top 10 b schools. their med school is around 20 as is northwesterns, im glad for that so i can apply there with a good chance of getting in. b school admissions are much more logical than med school so that parts not a worry. chicagos a nice city...i would look forward to going there but columbia would be a dream and dartmouth seems nice too.

as for "md/mba" programs, the integration is better than if you were to do them separately, but the fact that only a handful of students pursue this track at any given school means you cant really rank the combined programs, you just have to look at the separate rankings and combine them basically.

rockefeller is supposedly the richest guy the world has ever seen in adjusted dollars. his net worth was a few percent of americas gdp. i thought he had his own school though in the northeast somewhere.

I wouldn't lie. Clearly, Harvard has that name but if you look at last years Economist and Business Week, I am telling the truth. Harvard was ranked #5 in business week. It all depends on what you are interested in with business schools: finance, marketing, etc...Either way, good luck with your applications. I know if you want to apply to Harvard MD/MBA you have to do it on your AMCAS and get accepted to both programs, whereas other schools let you apply in your 1st or second year of medical school which is easier.

 

[Shredder]

it seems like way too much trouble to apply to b schools at the same time as med schools, its too much to handle especially considering the GMAT necessity. your question about harvard biz vs 10-20, well im faced with that decision since i wont get into harvard med, and i think i will do an md/mba program somewhere else to save time. the prestige of a degree isnt worth as much as what you make of it. one line of thinking is that its easier to wait until after your md to get the mba after you have worked, but it is difficult to change from working career mode back to academic mode.

i think regardless of mag rankings HBS is the clear number one, no matter which way they twist it. id love to go into pharma or biotech but i feel others frown upon this since its not considered a doctors traditional role. i dont think med schools will respect it if i mention it in apps, so ill have to fudge some.

as for us news, yeah i was basing everything on their lists. northwestern med is like 20, chicago 19 and dartmouth 35, so they look like good bets with great b schools.

 

[notdeadyet]

harvard business school is hands down the best in the world. theres no way economist or anyone ranked chicago higher than hbs. penn comes in 2nd pretty much always. then stanford, northwestern. chicago is at the lower end of top 10 b schools.

Folks, ever notice how everyone on these web boards seems to obsess about the USN&WR rankings, even though almost every attending and even resident points out that those rankings don't mean anything once you actually get out and start practicing medicine?

It's even more true for business. You will find that _no one_ talks about this school being "ranked" better than that school once you actually start pounding the pavement.

You can talk about "top" business schools, but to actually compare one to the other when you're discussing the level of Stanford, Harvard and Wharton is pretty asinine.

I work as a business consultant and formerly worked as an e-business consultant for one of the top software companies. We paid bank and were able to attract the best and the brightest. Given my druthers, who did I try to recruit? Haas (Berkeley) and Stanford. All things being equal (which, by the way, they rarely are), would I take a Haas grad above a Harvard grad? Yes, absolutely.

Is Haas ranked higher than Harvard? Nope. But as someone mentioned, one of the few worthwhile things about B school is contacts. And B schools, in spite of what they may tell you, are always highly regional. Folks who end up at school in the northeast tend to stay in the northeast. Folks who end up the Bay Area tend to stay in the bay area.

I am in the majority in this line of thinking. And the only companies that will obsess over where you got your MBA is those companies that have to MARKET where you got your MBA (Arthur Anderson, Deloitte and Touche, etc.). Trust me, no one else will much care.

And as for the OP, you gotta figure out if you want to be a doctor or a titan of industry, dude. If you're not concerned with being a major player in the business world (and your original post talked about Good Works and whatnot), then don't obsess much about where you'll do an MBA. You'll learn much of the same curriculum everywhere. The distinction amongst the biggies is only relevant if you want to slave away in the business trenches for the next 40 years. If you don't, it'll largely be waste on you.

And for someone who's been in the business world for the past 10 years, trust me, medicine looks sweeter.

 

[Law2Doc]

And the only companies that will obsess over where you got your MBA is those companies that have to MARKET where you got your MBA (Arthur Anderson, Deloitte and Touche, etc.)

While I largely agree with this post, my experience is that it is far more than just the big five accounting firms that care about marketing their people based on where they went to school. Lots of management consulting firms, financial services companies and investment banks do so as well (Really any company where the MBA provides services to outside clients/customers). And since the business rankings take into account recruiter opinions and placement statistics, it is a somewhat more meaningful ranking criteria than the MD rankings. That being said, I don't think even those types of name-focussed companies dwell on whether one's school was ranked first or eg. eighth -- anything in the top dozen is going to be a nice marketing tool for the potential employer, so I'd agree that the difference between eg. Harvard and Haas is pretty minimal.

 

[notdeadyet]

While I largely agree with this post, my experience is that it is far more than just the big five accounting firms that care about marketing their people based on where they went to school. Lots of management consulting firms, financial services companies and investment banks do so as well (Really any company where the MBA provides services to outside clients/customers).

Good point, Law2Doc. I shouldn't limit that field to just the Big Five. If I asked to give advice to those heading down a more vanilla business path, I'd probably stress the MBA location a bit more (though I do stand by the fact that how good a school is for your career is very dependent on where you will work and what _kind_ of business you want to go in to).

But for folks who are interested in primarily becoming doctors, I think the impact of a top school is greatly reduced. A doctor friend of mine did a mini-MBA program which touched on most of the content areas of an MBA without the great depth and final project and found it more than ample to give him the skills he needed to run his private practice.

 

[deuist]

If you want a business degree that focuses on medicine, you can pursue a masters of healthcare administration (MHA) instead of the usual MBA. Several schools have these.

 

[bbaek]

If you want a business degree that focuses on medicine, you can pursue a masters of healthcare administration (MHA) instead of the usual MBA. Several schools have these.

what are the benefits of a MHA over an MBA (non-profit management or international management)?

also, won't more ppl know what an MBA is for rather than a MHA. i am looking toward a MBA b/c i want to run an international faith-based non-profit organization. does that make sense or am i off track from all the other advice ppl have given me? 😴

 

[Shredder]

intl faith based non profit wow pretty specific. when i think mba i think profit

 

[getunconcsious]

intl faith based non profit wow pretty specific. when i think mba i think profit

I've been waiting to tell you this for a long time...Donald Trump sucks. And who eats turtle soup?

Gosh, what a sorry excuse for a junior class.... 😉 🙄

 

[LizzyM]

If you are interested organizing or operating an international, non-for-profit, faith based organization, I would recommend an MPH degree (where populations, not profits, are the important bottom line) at a school strong in health administration, global health, management, and law.

Yale fits the bill. You can take a year off from med school & take a 1-year MPH at Yale. Yale offers an MPH with a concentration in health administration but also offers a concentration in global health. MPH students can also take courses in the management school (which specializes in the operation of non-for-profit organizations).

 

[bbaek]

how about operating non-profits like a business? did ppl forget that aspect?

nowadays, non-profits are not just known for being "non-profit", but like a business, they have to get investments inside the organization to do something. money allows businesses, albeit profit or non-profit, to be created and sustained.

someone told me this, either on this post or a previous thread. i want this perspective to be put out there so they can see the legitimacy of having a mba IN ADDITION to a mph

 

[Shredder]

thats a lot of education, what ive noticed from my own experience is that people start frowning when you mention pursuing an MD but envisioning a future drastically different from what doctors normally do. you may be able to convince people that your head is on straight, and im sure it is, but its not usually an easy or quick process and people will try to dissuade you and question you. bear in mind one thing, an ideal candidate would likely show a mentality very similar to an adcom that is judging him. or thats my profound theory anyway if it makes sense. it sucks but its just easier to tell people what they want to hear and are used to hearing rather than introducing them to something new and unfamiliar. good luck

 

[Medikit]

Hey, aren't the MBA playoffs going on right now?

 

[bbaek]

Hey, aren't the MBA playoffs going on right now?

hahahha. thats funny.... nice pun

 

[bbaek]

anyone else got something to say?

 

[bbaek]

bump

 

[notdeadyet]

bump

Dude, I think everyone pretty much said everything there is to say...

 

[hwong14]

If you are interested organizing or operating an international, non-for-profit, faith based organization, I would recommend an MPH degree (where populations, not profits, are the important bottom line) at a school strong in health administration, global health, management, and law.

Yale fits the bill. You can take a year off from med school & take a 1-year MPH at Yale. Yale offers an MPH with a concentration in health administration but also offers a concentration in global health. MPH students can also take courses in the management school (which specializes in the operation of non-for-profit organizations).

agreed. MPH with a concentration in health management/policy is what you should be thinking either for the NFP/faith-based organization or building hospitals in developing countries. in fact, someone from my MPH program with that concentration did his thesis this year on building a health center in Ghana.

 

[babaghannough]

anyone have anything to say about Tufts' MD/MBA program? while most people in this thread talked about the importance of the prestige of the business school b/c of the contacts you'll make there, tufts doesn't even have a business school and the MD/MBA program requires you to take classes at neighboring universities in boston. how beneficial would taking this program be for someone looking to get into a competitive residency and eventually running a private practice? I guess what it boils down to is, would the tufts md/mba program help you match into a more competitive residency?

 

[cleansocks]

Getting into more competitive residency programs is not something to count on for any MD/MBA program (including Tufts). While some programs are certainly interested in MBA's, they are also interested in researchers and people that devote their time elsewhere. The important thing is to make the most of your program so you have something to show for it when they ask what you did. That will increase your chances.


Some Tufts advantages: done in normal 4 years, integrated with MD program, 24 hour accessible dual degree building (good for med school studying), lots of summer opportunities in Boston, no GMAT required, big cohesive group -> lots of networking capabilities, flexible program lets you focus more on your interests and less on what you don't want to learn, 1st program of its type

disads: since no GMAT required, not accredited (though programs it outsources to are), done during summers (though you have to occupy your summers with research or something else anyway), usually 1 class done during each med school semester (but replaces selective which would occupy that time anyway), no selective -> less clinical experience before rotations