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MCAT Is The Bigger Key To Acceptance.
- Thread starter Gulayd
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The study correlates MCAT to USMLE performance, drawing a link to admissions would be a few logical jumps...
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No! No! It's causative! They made it into an RCT by giving the control group the TOEFL instead!
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The objective of the study was to see the position the MCAT occupies in relation to the undergrad GPA of accepted medical students.
Conclusion is that MCAT "essentially replaces the need for undergrad GPA" to predict your success rate.
You don't then think medical school admissions secretly weigh MCAT higher than undergrad GPA???😕
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Ask Vihsadas (?sp) his thoughts on this...
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Explains why in the small time I've been here...i've come across many posts where ppl say they got accepted into top tier schools even with lower gpa because they had spectacular mcat score
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Dude who hangs out here, mostly on the MCAT threads...he crushed the MCAT 40 S, had a 3.33, and will be reapplying next cycle...look him up.
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so there's hope for a 39 MCAT w/ a 3.01 GPA (including 2 Ds, and 2 Fs)?
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Not really...check out Vihsadas and his postings on the MCAT forum...
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That's supposed to proof this study wrong? I won't assume anything for the guy but there are many other things that are taken into consideration he might have fallen short on....
I know two people with perfect 4.0's who were denied last year from the UWSOM...does that mean the GPA is not important?
p.s. i'm not trying to be condescending!
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No one in this forum can truly tell you...you shouldn't put all your hopes on the advice/criticism of other poor souls just like you who themselves will have to face the gauntlet and not know the outcome just like you..!
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Between a high GPA / Low MCAT and Low GPA/High MCAT, I'd say the latter has the better shot of getting in...
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I am not trying to be condescending either, but you totally misunderstood the results of this study - it had NOTHING to do with predicting acceptance to medical school, or as you further opined, that medical schools "secretly" rely more heavily on MCAT than GPA. It takes both - good GPA and good MCAT - to gain admission. It is not an "either / or" situation...there will always be exceptions, but a high MCAT does not "make up" for a low GPA, or vice versa...
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without doing any two-sample t-tests or anything, i would GUESS that mcat > gpa very slightly in terms of admissions. i think it's SLIGHTLY more likely to gain admission with a high mcat + low gpa than low mcat + high gpa. this is purely observational from premeds i know, mdapps, and sdn.
like other's have said, you really need both.
and it's possible to gain admission with a 3.01 + 39 MCAT. it's just very very hard.
like other's have said, you really need both.
and it's possible to gain admission with a 3.01 + 39 MCAT. it's just very very hard.
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😉
YES. There is definitely, absolutely hope. Is there assurance? Definitely not. You have to be realistic about what you are going to have to do to get there. That MCAT will not get you into medical school. It will get you looked at, but it will not get you in. Realize that you have a chance, but that you should be using every moment of your time (right now...this instant) in strengthening your app. Go to an SMP, do volunteer work, do something you really love and can commit to that relates to healthcare. Realize that you are going to have to work your butt off. Is there hope? Definitely. I think that you have shown that you've got some brains with that MCAT. Just realize that even though you've proven it to yourself, you've now got to prove it to everyone else, especially the adcoms. Listen, I'm not going to sit here and tell you 100% for sure that you'll get in. Noone can do that, and if they do tell you that, they are doing you a disservice. I will tell you, however, that unless you do everything single thing in your power to ensure that your application is as strong as you can possibly make it, you may look back and wonder 'What if.' Never give yourself an excuse to absolve yourself from not succeeding: "Well if I had just gone to that SMP! If I had just done that volunteer work!" You want to be able to look back and say, "I did everything that I possibly could. I really, truly did." If you can't honestly look at your experiences and say that, then you still have some work to do. People like you and I have given ourselves an uphill battle. Be ready for it, accept it, and beat it. You gotta show that you WANT IT. and BAD. I really believe that Adcoms will see it if you make it clear how much more badly you want it than the next guy.
Just be honest with yourself that it is going to be even harder for you, than the next guy. Possible? Absolutely? Attainable? You betcha.
This is (one of) my mottos:
"Positive thinking and blind encouragement might be comforting, but they belie you. Being realistic about what will be required to reach a goal is more empowering, yet more terrifying. It is terrifying because it can reveal just how hard it might be, and that the possibility of failure exists. However, if you buy into blind encouragement you have already lost. Therefore, I'll take 'realistic and scary' any day of the week."
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I agree that the higher MCAT can make up for a slightly lower GPA (which doesn't necessarily work the other way around). However, you have to consider that once your GPA is solidified, it will be harder to alter it. With the MCAT, if you get a crappy score, it's relatively easy/quick to correct (especially with it now being offered so many times per year). Bottom line, shoot for an excellent GPA; however, if you end up with at least a decent GPA (3.3-3.5), the MCAT is an awesome opportunity for you to catch (and possibly transcend) those with awesome GPAs (3.8+).
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I guess that makes me one hot bitch!
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Yeah, but the poster above was talking about a 3.01...not a little lower, but a LOT lower than the median...the more MDApps profiles I look at, and the more I read about admissions, the more I believe that a median GPA (3.67 and increasiing) along with a median MCAT (31 - 32) is sufficient, but GPAs south of 3.4, no matter how strong the MCAT, are killing people's chances...GPA is critical in the admissions process, more so than the MCAT...
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I wish the MCAT was the only key to acceptance. 😀
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you gotta look at the other end of the spectrum. what about high gpa low mcat? a 25, for example, is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the average matriculant and even the average test taker. a 25 on the mcat is going to be an app killer no matter how high the gpa.
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You can argue both sides to having one high and one low for GPA and MCAT. If your MCAT is high and GPA is low, they could think your lazy and don't work hard at your school. If your GPA is high but MCAT is low, they could think you go to an "easy" college.
Ideally you'd have both a decent GPA and MCAT, so they seem to match up.
Then again, those are just "screening" criteria. A good MCAT/GPA will get you an interview; if you nail the interview (and are a "well rounded" person, whatever that means), you have a good chance of getting in. The interviewers are good at spotting BS, so be honest.
Ideally you'd have both a decent GPA and MCAT, so they seem to match up.
Then again, those are just "screening" criteria. A good MCAT/GPA will get you an interview; if you nail the interview (and are a "well rounded" person, whatever that means), you have a good chance of getting in. The interviewers are good at spotting BS, so be honest.
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edit- remembered wrong.
Anyway- I think there is something to be said for the 1/4 rule, being MCAT, GPA, Interview, and ECs/PS. I think if the real process reflected this more (and less of the GPA/MCAT) we would be producing higher-caliber students.
Anyway- I think there is something to be said for the 1/4 rule, being MCAT, GPA, Interview, and ECs/PS. I think if the real process reflected this more (and less of the GPA/MCAT) we would be producing higher-caliber students.
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i disagree. its possible...i have the same unbalanced stats, but with a bit more success. its not easy, by any means, nor is it impossible.
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Based on what?
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Actually this study is kind of a "how to" guide for MCAT results.
It really does relate to acceptance to med school because applicants who are not predicted to pass the USMLE will not get accepted. By laying out the best predictors for that...they are advising on the best candidates.
The mcat is important. The MCAT + GPA is the best (GPA on it's own is not so hot...hi, we've been debating this for decades. a 4.0 from Bumfcuk state is less valuable than a 4.0 from MIT). The USMLE is a standardized test...if an applicants demonstrates poor performance on standardized tests, it's a negative.
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Huh? I'm not sure what you've seen, it seems like people with 3.7 and 28 do fine as opposed to 3.3 and a 36
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So I haven't taken the usmle yet (of course), but from what I've heard it's quite different from the mcat. Anyone feel free to correct or confirm this. Anyway, I'm sure the mcat isn't formated identically to the usmle. If they were trying to use the mcat as a predictor of the usmle wouldn't they be structured the same? Someone had said the goal of medical admissions is to get students who will pass the usmle, but I'm pretty sure the overall goal is to produce quality physicians. I know there are schools, one in my home state, that take subpar applicants and chug out great board scores. If the mcat were truly a bigger part of the application process, I think the overall national mcat score would be much higher than low 30's. I'd have to agree with those who said well rounded median numbers seem to be the best bet.
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The main problem with this study is that since they only had people who entered medical school, they were already likely to be successful. How are uGPA and MCAT scores at predicting success? We don't know because they did not include people who did not get in to medical school to begin with.
Thus, the people who were likely not to do well were not in this cohort. They would provide much more data on the lower range of uGPA and MCAT scores to give them more predictive power, most likely.
Thus, the people who were likely not to do well were not in this cohort. They would provide much more data on the lower range of uGPA and MCAT scores to give them more predictive power, most likely.
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Ha ha ha. Yeah, doing well on my MCAT caused me to ace the Step 1. I kept thinking about how I rocked the MCAT and I got this amazing confidence boost, and all of a sudden, I was in, like, this multiple-choice zone and, i swear, the right letters, like, started glowing.
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No matter how quality, you need a license to practice. Therefore, you need to pass the USMLE. It's pretty simple. If ANYTHING on your applications says that you will have more trouble than the next person passing those exams, you will be rejected (but don't worry, it's not the only thing that can get you rejected).
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No but inherent intelligence will help you do well on any test, no? Intelligence, as demonstrated on MCAT, leads to the correlation. Correlation does not have to equal causation for it to be relevant.
Come on, what's so hard about "smart people do more gooder on tests."
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Not in this case.
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1. Not in this case what? That's a double negative.
2. It's a double negative without your rationale. So what is your rationale.
3. Nevermind. I'm tired.
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It is a well known fact that the MCAT weighs far more in admissions than the GPA. In fact, the Academic Index - which is the formula used to rank and look at the applicants- shows that the emphasis is almost 2/3 over the GPA.
I was actually wondering how good of a predictor are SATs or the ACT with performance at the MCAT.
I was actually wondering how good of a predictor are SATs or the ACT with performance at the MCAT.
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ha, awesome
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my own personal opinion, which I happen to hold in quite high regard.
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No, we won't. The point of MCAT and GPA is to produce a comparable scale. You can compare applicants and rank them via them because there is a uniformity of scale. You cannot do that with EC and interview.
Interview is inherently subjective, and does not truly measure someone's ability to fare well in the field of medicine. A salesman can probably do well in an interview if he has to sell himself to the adcom.
As for ECs, they too are ungeneralizable and unscaleble. I mean, how do you POSSIBLY scale ECs? By the amount of them? hours done? You can have someone sit in a hospital for hundreds of hours playing video games and claim that they done clincal volunteering, your mom's friend writing up a paper, have you wash some glassware and put you down as a second author. How can I tell those applicants apart from the real deal?
The current forumula isn't broke, don't change it.
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UMich weighs Ugrad GPA less than MCAT. This isn't anything they're trying to hide either. Robert Ruiz, their admissions director told me personally that MCAT is the most important factor at their med school.
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Holding one's own opinion in high regard - highly correlated with favouring subjective assesments of people's fitness for medicine over objective measures.
