Which is harder and needs more time to prepare? seriously..why?
Mcat Vs. Dat
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well the mcat is obviously harder. and why..well (and not to belittle dentists or the field in any way0 but medicine in general is the more difficult route and applicants have to generally be more capable to be able to suceed so the screening is more rigorous. the mcat also has physics which is freaking hard and the dat doesnt.
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The MCAT is harder - it has Physics in the test and also none of the DAT science questions are passage based. However, the DAT does have some biology sections that are not tested on the MCAT and the DAT has a perceptual ability section which can be difficult to master. Also, yes it is true that dental schools on average are not as competitive as medical schools making it a bit easier to score in a higher percentile on the DAT. However, the DAT is by no means easy and if you want to get into a top dental school you will need a high GPA & DAT. How much time you need to prepare all depends on how well you know your sceinces.
I don't buy the statement that " lot of people who had trouble with the MCAT, had virtually no trouble with the DAT and got accepted to multiple Dental schools" as a previous poster wrote. I know plenty of dental students who would have had no trouble getting into medical school if that is what they wanted, so don't think dental students are just people that couldn't get into medical school - the average undergrad GPA for the majority of dental schools is over a 3.5. Maybe not as good of stats as med students, but getting into dental school is no cake walk.
Anyway, don't base your decision on which profession to go into on how difficult the test is. Do some shadowing to find out what you really want to do, then study your butt off for the entrance exam. Any extra studying you need to do is worth it if it gets you into the right career. Good luck.
MCAT
Test Section Questions Time
Tutorial (optional) 10 minutes
Physical Sciences 52 70 minutes
Break (optional) 10 minutes
Verbal Reasoning 40 60 minutes
Break (optional ) 10 minutes
Writing Sample 2 60 minutes
Break (optional) 10 minutes
Biological Sciences 52 70 minutes
Survey 10 minutes
Total Content Time 4 hours, 20 minutes
Total Test Time 4 hours, 50 minutes
DAT
Test Section Questions Time
Natural Sciences 100 90 minutes
(100 questions --> 40 Bio, 30 Chem, 30 OChem)
Perceptual Ability 90 60 minutes
Break (optional) 15 minutes
Reading Comprehension 50 60 minutes
Quantitiative Reasoning 40 45 minutes
Total Content Time 4 Hours, 15 minutes
Total Test Time 4 Hours, 30 mintues
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The DAT is more fact recall than critical thinking like the MCAT.
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Having taken the DAT, this comment is spot on.
However, I would like to add one more point. If you can not see and get the perceptual ability, then the DAT can be worse. I understand the sciences and did pretty well 89% overall on them. Thus far, the MCAT is harder overall but I can learn the sciences, my verbal is starting at 10/11, and I seem to be alright at critical thinking. So, for me I think the MCAT is more favorable, not easier. Plus, I have experience taking computerized tests now thanks to the DAT. In fact, in my city, we take them both at the same place so I already have a feel for the room.
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i trully do not think so...
Getting into dental school is no walk in the park and for sure it is much harder to get into dental school then it is into DO school(which as far as i am concerned is considered medical school).
DAT is hard and for some ppl the perceptual ability is really what makes them do bad on it. It is not something that you can just learn, you either see it or not. I personally would love this section on the MCAT (i am an ex-architecture major) but on the other side it would be nice to have a test that is more a recall of info like DAT is. I guess it all depends on what you are good at. I think it is much easier to study for the MCAT though.
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I have taken both the MCAT and the DAT, and I can tell you my honest opinion that the DAT is significantly easier than the MCAT. The DAT is shorter, and as a previous poster noted above, the DAT does not require critical thinking skills as much as it requires raw memorization. Furthermore, the reading comprehension section on the DAT is exactly what it sounds like: reading. It does not really require any analysis. The MCAT, however, requires a good amount of reasoning to determine answers on the Verbal section.
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The MCAT is harder than the DAT.
I thought the reading section of the MCAT required a lot of thought while the DAT just required you to search back through the passage to find the correct answer.
The gen chem and o-chem asked more or less the same type of questions.
The DAT has a PAT section which SUCKS. It is one of those things you have to master, you cant learn it you need to master the ability to recognize the difference of angles less than 3 degrees apart.
The math section on the DAT was fairly basic, easier than the physics section on the MCAT.
Now that the MCAT is now computerized the times will be roughly the same, but the MCAT has more sections, that require thought while the DAT is how well you can recognize the correct answer.
Who really cares if the MCAT or the DAT are harder?
We are both going into our respective fields, where we basically come out with a great amount of knowledge of what we do, where we come together to take care of our patients.
Why never any comparisons of the MCAT to the OAT, or PCAT, or LSAT?
They all earn you a doctorate.
Who care do what you do and dont worry about other people who dont have the same interest as you.
I thought the reading section of the MCAT required a lot of thought while the DAT just required you to search back through the passage to find the correct answer.
The gen chem and o-chem asked more or less the same type of questions.
The DAT has a PAT section which SUCKS. It is one of those things you have to master, you cant learn it you need to master the ability to recognize the difference of angles less than 3 degrees apart.
The math section on the DAT was fairly basic, easier than the physics section on the MCAT.
Now that the MCAT is now computerized the times will be roughly the same, but the MCAT has more sections, that require thought while the DAT is how well you can recognize the correct answer.
Who really cares if the MCAT or the DAT are harder?
We are both going into our respective fields, where we basically come out with a great amount of knowledge of what we do, where we come together to take care of our patients.
Why never any comparisons of the MCAT to the OAT, or PCAT, or LSAT?
They all earn you a doctorate.
Who care do what you do and dont worry about other people who dont have the same interest as you.
in my opinion the MCAT was harder. (you're shocked, i know.)
I took the old MCAT- the eight hour nightmare that tested just about every part of my mental being, including knowledge of material, ability to process information, quickness with which i processed that information, and stamina. The science material was not more challenging on the MCAT compared to the DAT; in my experience, the short answer questions on PS and BS were much like the typical DAT science question- perhaps marginally more challenging on the MCAT. A few questions required a bit more of your analyzation skills. I'll also add that although I was always nervous to finish all the sections of the MCAT, I counted on a break at the end of each DAT section. I scored 10 PS, 11 BS. The verbal of the MCAT was my challenge and doesn't even compare to the DAT. Whereas on the MCAT I was often wondering if the question sets actually went along with the passage I was reading, on the DAT I almost always knew with certainty what the answer was. I scored an 8 VR.
I took the DAT less than a week after I took the MCAT. The science sections were straight forward, 40 bio, 30 chem, and 30 orgo questions, i believe in that order. The were not impossible, and more importantly, I never really got the sense that I was being tricked into the wrong answer as I did witht he MCAT. I scored a 21/21/21 and 21 total science. (that's about 90th percentile for all of them). The verbal section has only 3 passages and about 15 questions for each passage. 2 of the passages will always be science-based passages (from my understanding), and my exam actually had three. It was as if i was reading a text book, and answering simple questions at the end of the chapter, and outside information is applicable. much, much easier than reading an excerpt from some philosophy scholarly magazine or some other topic that i have no interest in. I didn't finish the verbal section... took too much time, didn't get a good enough feel for pace from my practice tests. I left out 3 questions, but still managed a 20 (~70th percentile).
There was no physics on the DAT, but there is a quantitative analysis section. It probably a lot like a GRE math exam, it was slightly challenging, especially if you hadn't dealt with that sort of material in a while. Plus it's given at the end of the exam when your brain is all but fried. So though the DAT doesn't have physics, it still tests your logical reasoning skills. On that I scored a 20 (~90th percentile).
There was also a PAT, which tested your spatial reasoning skills, which is sort of irrelevant. It comes after the science, and I actually found it kind of amusing. 21 (~93rd percentile).
My total scores for each were 29N (~70th %) and 21 AA (92nd %), 21 PAT
I took the old MCAT- the eight hour nightmare that tested just about every part of my mental being, including knowledge of material, ability to process information, quickness with which i processed that information, and stamina. The science material was not more challenging on the MCAT compared to the DAT; in my experience, the short answer questions on PS and BS were much like the typical DAT science question- perhaps marginally more challenging on the MCAT. A few questions required a bit more of your analyzation skills. I'll also add that although I was always nervous to finish all the sections of the MCAT, I counted on a break at the end of each DAT section. I scored 10 PS, 11 BS. The verbal of the MCAT was my challenge and doesn't even compare to the DAT. Whereas on the MCAT I was often wondering if the question sets actually went along with the passage I was reading, on the DAT I almost always knew with certainty what the answer was. I scored an 8 VR.
I took the DAT less than a week after I took the MCAT. The science sections were straight forward, 40 bio, 30 chem, and 30 orgo questions, i believe in that order. The were not impossible, and more importantly, I never really got the sense that I was being tricked into the wrong answer as I did witht he MCAT. I scored a 21/21/21 and 21 total science. (that's about 90th percentile for all of them). The verbal section has only 3 passages and about 15 questions for each passage. 2 of the passages will always be science-based passages (from my understanding), and my exam actually had three. It was as if i was reading a text book, and answering simple questions at the end of the chapter, and outside information is applicable. much, much easier than reading an excerpt from some philosophy scholarly magazine or some other topic that i have no interest in. I didn't finish the verbal section... took too much time, didn't get a good enough feel for pace from my practice tests. I left out 3 questions, but still managed a 20 (~70th percentile).
There was no physics on the DAT, but there is a quantitative analysis section. It probably a lot like a GRE math exam, it was slightly challenging, especially if you hadn't dealt with that sort of material in a while. Plus it's given at the end of the exam when your brain is all but fried. So though the DAT doesn't have physics, it still tests your logical reasoning skills. On that I scored a 20 (~90th percentile).
There was also a PAT, which tested your spatial reasoning skills, which is sort of irrelevant. It comes after the science, and I actually found it kind of amusing. 21 (~93rd percentile).
My total scores for each were 29N (~70th %) and 21 AA (92nd %), 21 PAT
PAT can't make you do bad on the DAT. It's considered a seperate score from everything else and isn't averaged into your Academic Average. Some schools even ignore the PAT (to a certain extent).
In New York, you have to do residency for dentistry as well. General Practice Residencies and Advanced Education in General Dentistry residencies can be one or two years. I suspect that as dentistry becomes more popular a career choice, this trend will spread to other states.
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It can make your PA score bad and my in-state school counts it very heavily. It is the reason I would not get accepted. My AA was right there at their average. The QR pulled me down there because I did not focus much time on it due to the fact I was looking at angles and other lovely shapes. No matter the time or effort I always stayed near a 17. Thus far from my studying for both tests, I still find the PAT more difficult for me to understand. I am not great at Physics, but I feel with some effort I can get it well enough. I got A's in both classes, but that PAT I will never get a 90% or higher on the DAT, which I need to get to get into my state school. To do well on the PAT, it really takes ability that can not be learned to a certain extent. My sister, who is artistic and could not tell me what H2O is, took a practice test to help me and she even got a higher score with no previous experience. To conclude, if you do not have the "force" on the PAT, it is really a "force" that one can not just study for because it is not a matter of critical thinking or subject knowledge but of innate ability.
17 is the average for test takers, no? what school counts it so heavily that a 17 is unacceptable? I can't tell if you applied already and have been rejected or if you're anticipating a rejection, because in my opinion a 17 isn't a terrible PAT score. Sorry if it's the case that you've been rejected, but otherwise, don't be so hard on yourself. PAT represents such a small fraction of your application as a whole that an average score isn't going to break your chances. If you're still in school... i don't know, maybe take some art classes. Point is, you can recover from a poor PAT score without too much trouble, especially if the rest of your app is solid.
This is the underlying misconception that most premeds have about dentists, but i will humor you just the same (it's just my hope that someone will have changed their mind about dentists being lesser beings after reading this). Dentists go through four years of schooling for their primary degree, 2 mainly didactic, 2 mainly clinical. Once they have their primary degree, they can either go into general practice or enter residency/post-graduate programs. Those wishing/required to enter general residency programs can anticipate another year or two. Those wishing to enter a specialty, such as Oral an Maxillofacial Surgery (OMFS), which includes the option of 2 years of med school and an additional MD degree, or Orthodontics, Endodontics, Perio, Peds, can anticipate at least 2 years, probably 3 or 4, unless you do OMFS with the MD, which is 6. So with a specialty residency, you're looking at anything from 6 to 10 years total education.
Is that really unlike the path of the med student? we learn the same basic science classes for the most part. when you're in the clinic being doctors, we're in the clinic being dentists. can't a med student enter practice after 4 years? How long is residency for a general practicioner? How about specialties? The more competitive residencies? I honestly am not sure, but I have a strong feeling they are very similar.
I will concede that the MCAT is tougher than the DAT, and that med schools attract overall a more impressive pool of applicants, but I'm not going to admit that dental school is easier and that dentists have it easier than meds. That's a ridiculous, egotistic claim. sorry. it's not happening.
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As a pre-med you will never take DAT. And as a Pre-dent you will never take MCAT. So does this really matter which exam is harder or which course is going to be difficult. They are two parallel tests serving the admission interests of two parallel professional school systems. Comparing them is pointless.Its like Electrical Engineers and Mechanical Engineers arguing who is best and harder to succeed.
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Will this be a career defining answer for you? If so dont limit yourself based upon a test.
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I did have an 18 on MCAT and took the DAT and got a 22 which is really a good score for Dentistry entry requirments, but I dont wanna do dent, i want medicine and thats why I am not quiting. Anyway, I think DAT is hard in one aspect and thats the PAT (perceptual ability test) and that I am not good at. I got a 3 on VR in MCAT, but a freakin 20 on the DAT, which is awesome. The VR on DAT is much straightforward.
Medicine is harder due to the long journey you take. My parents encourage me to go dentistry, but its not what i like. Good luck on your decision. Dentistry is a great field and is as respectable. I just dont like to have an office and work in a 1200 sq ft building.
It's considered a separate score because it holds a lot of weight and schools want to view it seperately from the "academic" categories. The fact is that you know everything about the sciences; but if you don't have the hand skills and can't pick up minor perceptual differences you're going to hate being a dentist.
Oh and the MCAT is way harder... and a lot more intense.
But the two tests don't need any more than two months of hardcore studying for preparation time (maybe a little more hardcore for the MCAT).
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you scored in bottom 3% on the mcat verbal reasoning...? i dont think you're even fit to be roaming the internet. then again, you probably don't even understand what im saying right now so im probably wasting my time...
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I answer questions some on the DAT forum and there's something weird I noticed. Does the DAT recycle like just 4 or 5 versions of the test? I see people saying they got pianoed, or crocodiled, etc., like those passages have been around for ages. Is this the case?
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Nice 2 year bump you troll.
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haha, I'd be interested to see what the response would be if this was in the pre-dent forum.
I'm a pre-dental student and I've only taken the DAT...did well on it (95% overall and 98% on sciences)...my guess is that the DAT is easier...and getting into dental school is easier...for med school, every student is fighting against approximately 75 others for a seat, while for dental school its 1 to 35...I mean it only makes sense for med school to be harder to get into...I believe physicians have a greater responsibility than dentists...I mean you could literally kill a patient with one simple mistake...dentists have an immense responsibility as well...the mouth is still attached to the rest of the body, so dentists must be careful as well...but no matter what anyone says, it only makes sense for medical schools to filter more than dental schools...I graduated from UC Berkeley with high honors (3.85 GPA in Molecular and Cell Biology with an emphasis in Neurobiology) and I'm sure I would have done well enough on the MCAT is be competitive and get into med school, however, my passion is the oral cavity and I'm going towards that career!
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I don't think they would be considerably different. Most people know and understand the MCAT is harder. Just like most dental students know the USMLE is harder than the NBDE.
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I believe so, but I would guess that they cycle in new ones and remove old ones based on some schedule they have, but I don't know for sure. I got the crocodile one.
I know some of you guys would like to think us pre-dents would freak out at such an egregious slight against our standardized tests, but that's just not the case as armorshell points out above me.
MCAT is harder, I've taken both. They're just different tests. MCAT has physics and passage based problems while DAT has QR and PAT and straightforward you know it or you don't type questions. The one thing that helped with the MCAT is that you could often reason out problems from the information in the passage even if you didn't really know how to calculate or figure out the correct answer right away.
32Q (80-85%?) vs. 23AA (98%)
To be fair though, I only studied for the MCAT for about 2-3 weeks, whereas with the DAT I studied for a good month.
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Forget all the testing..
dentistry is way harder just because you'd have to smell people's rank breath all day everyday...
the masks do nothing for stank..
dentistry is way harder just because you'd have to smell people's rank breath all day everyday...
the masks do nothing for stank..
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haha, enjoy your rectal exams
I haven't had the pleasure in performing one yet, but I have seen a bunch of them done in the ER and I can't wait to make a patient squirm like that
"Don't worry, I'll be gentle."
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I haven't had the pleasure in performing one yet, but I have seen a bunch of them done in the ER and I can't wait to make a patient squirm like that
"Don't worry, I'll be gentle."
I don't think I would ever be able to look at my hand the same way after that.
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Who cares about rectal. Fear the freaking OB rotation.
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fear the rectal. you get to use a speculum in ob/gyn.
you should make a poll....
which is worse?
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Although DO schools are somewhat easier to get into than MD schools, I dont believe for a second that DO schools are easier than Dental schools to get into. The average MCAT for DO is 27, and scoring 27 on the mcat is no cakewalk. The average DAT for dental schools is a little bit over 18 and I believe any average student can score 18 on the DAT. Caribbean med schools should not be included in that discussion as there is no standard for admission there. People cant compare the DAT with the MCAT because the DAT for the most part test how well someone can memorize stuff which I believe almost everybody can do if they have somewhat less than an average IQ. On the other hand, the MCAT for the most part test how well someone understand concepts; and if one dont have somewhat an average IQ, it is not easy to understand science's concepts. Therefore, there is no comparison whatsoever between the DAT and the MCAT... the MCAT is way much harder.
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the MCAT is way much harder, nice
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MCAT is way much harder, nice...What is so nice about this statement?the MCAT is way much harder, nice
It is obvious that the MCAT and DAT are two different tests. I was a predental student that is now a premedical student so I think i can offer some insight on the DAT vs MCAT especially since I already took the DAT. I took the DAT this past summer and did amazing (Ts-23 (98%), AA-23(98%0, PAT-20 (85%)). This is approximatly equivalent to around a 36-38 ish on the MCAT (although there is no way one can compare the exams like this). I am currently taking practive MCAT's and am scoring no where near what i scored on the DAT. Its definatly embarrasing how bad i'm doing in comparison. The main reason for that is that the DAT is 75% knowing the material and 25% taking the test whereas the mcat is 25% knowing the material and 75% taking the test (in my opinion).
DAT MCAT
BIO- 24 (98.7%) BS-8
GC- 20 (81.3%)
OC- 30 (100%) PS-5 (this is solely based on OC since I havn't
taken physics yet)
RC- 22 (90.3%) VS-6 (Ahhh!)
With that in mind...Does anyone have any advice on how to improve my verbal score....I want at least a 9-10. I have gone through EK already and a couple of other books. But i just can't seem to pull it up....Any advice?
DAT MCAT
BIO- 24 (98.7%) BS-8
GC- 20 (81.3%)
OC- 30 (100%) PS-5 (this is solely based on OC since I havn't
taken physics yet)
RC- 22 (90.3%) VS-6 (Ahhh!)
With that in mind...Does anyone have any advice on how to improve my verbal score....I want at least a 9-10. I have gone through EK already and a couple of other books. But i just can't seem to pull it up....Any advice?
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http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=602154
lots of resources for you in the first two posts Wisdom. Don't put too much into your diagnostics. You haven't done content review, nor tons of practice problems. That 75% can be learned too, to an extent.
lots of resources for you in the first two posts Wisdom. Don't put too much into your diagnostics. You haven't done content review, nor tons of practice problems. That 75% can be learned too, to an extent.
Thanks a lot...These look like some great resources. Yea I'm a little bummed out b/c like the material I know (at least for orgo/bio/Gc) for the most part...The passages are what kill me....But thanks again...I'll really appreciate it
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I took a look at a DAT exam the other day, and it is basically just a laundry list of very easy one-sentence questions. However, the perceptual ability section is a bitch.
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I
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