MCAT vs GPA

[clyde91]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Good evening)

I am not too sure if I am supposed to post this question in this topic, please correct me and redirect me to the right section in this forum if required. Anyways, the question is to what extent could GPA overweight MCAT and vice verca. As an example, would one be consdired more competitive with 3.9 GPA and 30 MCAT, or 3.5 GPA and 33MCAT keeping the rest of the application identical. What are your thought? Thanks.

 

[el_duderino]

It doesn't. Your record should, as a whole, indicate academic talent as well as the ability to apply that talent on a consistent basis.

 

[clyde91]

It doesn't. Your record should, as a whole, indicate academic talent as well as the ability to apply that talent on a consistent basis.

Would you measure talent based on 1 point in time measure(MCAT) or rather longtitudiomaly(GPA). I realize that both are requrements in medical field, I just trying to access the significance of each in holistic review of Med school application. I hope it makes any sense...

 

[el_duderino]

Would you measure talent based on 1 point in time measure(MCAT) or rather longtitudiomaly(GPA). I realize that both are requrements in medical field, I just trying to access the significance of each in holistic review of Med school application. I hope it makes any sense...

I understand what you're trying to get at, but in the end there's no answer that will satisfy you. Your application is considered as a whole, not a sum of elements.

 

[WedgeDawg]

---> pre-allo

also: https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

According to this, the 3.9/30 has a better shot, but both are >50%

 

[Goro]

Different schools may place different weights upon MCAT vs GPA. But on the whole, MD schools have a superfluity of talented applicants who are good in both.

There is a concern that someone who has a strong MCAT but weak GPA is academically lazy, or might simply be good at standardized testing.

In contrast, someone with a strong GPA and a weak MCAT might not have stamina for a career-defining high stakes exam, or have issues with standardized exams.

DO schools are more forgiving of one category vs the other. My own Dean like high MCAT scores, as do AZCOM, the Touros and CCOM.

 

[el_duderino]

Let me expand a little to explain what I mean using a couple of simple examples with nothing but numbers.

Say you have a 3.6 / 31. This looks like an adequate student. Decent MCAT, gets more As than Bs. Has good ability and applies it consistently and fairly effectively.
Now look at a 3.9 / 27. This looks like someone who works really hard but doesn't have as much raw ability as an average MD student.
A 3.0 / 36? Assuming that the student is consistently a B student, this is a seriously talented applicant who has trouble applying that talent due to laziness, boredom, learning difficulties, or whatever.

Plus there's a lot more to the application than just your GPA and MCAT. Trends, MCAT retakes, extracurriculars, IAs, secondary answers, GPA breakdown in prereqs, strength of undergraduate institution, essay, leadership, etc etc.

And it ultimately doesn't matter. It isn't like you can pick and choose your GPA or MCAT. Do as well as you can. I assume you're not going to stop turning in assignments for a bunch of classes and let your GPA drop to a 3.1 just because you got a 35 on the MCAT, or whatever.

 

[aldol16]

Well, statistically speaking, it's a whole lot easier to have high GPA/low MCAT than the other way around. This is because of the huge variability in grading across undergraduate institutions. Some schools are notorious for grade inflation (Harvard but also many low-tier schools as well) and some are notorious for grade deflation (MIT), though grades have been creeping up steadily at the undergraduate level for many years and professors have pressure from administration to not give out too low of grades because it makes everybody look bad when 50% of your undergraduate class washes out. So as a result, at both the undergraduate and graduate level, we are graduating too many unqualified students. In any case, a whole lot of things goes into getting a high GPA - the rigor of the school you go to, the rigor of your courses, your specific courseload and GPA padding, etc. On the other hand, only a few things go into high MCAT score - command of the material, critical thinking, and being decent at standardized exams. Just visit the WAMC threads. You see a lot of 3.9-4.0 GPAs with 507-515 MCATs but very few 3.5 GPA and 520+ MCAT.

How schools view it is up to the specific school but objectively speaking, having a high MCAT is impressive because it's the one statistical measure schools can use to compare applicants across the board. That's not to say that high GPA and high MCAT isn't the best though because it is.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Youll never get the clear simple answer you want here it's just all about how you look at it.

There'll be those who argue the MCAT carries more weight
1) Past a 3.75, by and large GPA increases have diminishing returns. 3.7 is the median GPA for MD matriculants. 31 is the median MCAT for MD matriculants. There sure aren't diminishing returns past a 31 on the MCAT like a 3.7. Look at top school admission: a 3.7-3.75/37 type applicant can certainly have a shot at being competitive. Someone with 4.0/31? They're largely just donating money applying to top 20 schools.
2) Top MCAT scores are alot less common than top GPAs. The MCAT in many ways stratifies an applicant pool. It standardizes it as well.
3) Nobody really pays attention or cares about specific school median GPA stats. They sure do about median MCAT stats and schools when they look to boost their stats aren't doing so by trying to boost their GPA averages, they are doing so by trying to find people with big MCAT scores
4) Generally speaking while neither GPA or MCAT is a good direct predictor of med school performance, the MCAT trumps GPA in that regard.

And then on the other hand there'll be people who'll argue the GPA carries more weight
1) If you go through LizzyM score analysis, by and large someone with the same LizzyM score but who's GPA contributes to it more than the MCAT often historical norms shows has a slightly chance of acceptance. In other words historical norms show a 3.9/31 tends to have slightly more success than a 3.5/35.
2) Likewise you'll have people who believe one test isnt as good an indication of someone's aptitude or skills as 4 years of college work.
3) Those AAMC surveys show that sGPA is given a ever so slightly higher importance rating than MCAT.
4) While I dont agree with this there are people who think the MCAT is a test that can be studied for and "gamed" to be beaten to an extent with some people being at an advantage due to things such as SES amongst other factors. Similar to the idea that the rich get their own private tutors and expensive prep classes.

Grade trend is the other significant variable here. A 3.4/35 with 4 most recent semesters of 3.9 work is far different than a flat 3.4.

All in all if it wasn't obvious enough YMMV. Both a 3.5/33 and 3.9/30 can get in just fine, however a 3.5/33 is a bit more discordant.

 

[aldol16]

3) Nobody really pays attention or cares about specific school median GPA stats. They sure do about median MCAT stats and schools when they look to boost their stats aren't doing so by trying to boost their GPA averages, they are doing so by trying to find people with big MCAT scores

Is this true at top schools? It seems like some schools like WashU and UChicago really love high GPA and high MCAT as opposed to slightly lower GPA and high MCAT, as measured by their medians.

 

[Med Ed]

Good evening)

I am not too sure if I am supposed to post this question in this topic, please correct me and redirect me to the right section in this forum if required. Anyways, the question is to what extent could GPA overweight MCAT and vice verca. As an example, would one be consdired more competitive with 3.9 GPA and 30 MCAT, or 3.5 GPA and 33MCAT keeping the rest of the application identical. What are your thought? Thanks.

At School A the former will be more competitive. At School B the latter will be more competitive. Happy?

 

[clyde91]

First of all, thanks to every single one of you for contributing your opinion! The reason I asked the question is that I am still trying to make sense of the specific characteristics of two metric components of med school application. In my opinion, they are significantly differ in nature where MCAT takes a snapshot of your one time performance that can be affected by multitude of reasons, and the other one is longitudinal representation of your academic performance, which to some degree CAN definitely be misrepresented by the college you go to. I wanted to know what the majority of people in the medical field think about it. If you were an adcom today whom would you find more competitive, to put in another words, whom would you find you trustworthy of giving a seat in the medical school? 3.9 GPA+31 MCAT OR 3.5GPA+35MCAT??

 

[el_duderino]

If you were an adcom today whom would you find more competitive, to put in another words, whom would you find you trustworthy of giving a seat in the medical school? 3.9 GPA+31 MCAT OR 3.5GPA+35MCAT??

It's like you're making a D&D character and choosing where to put your stat points.

Are you trying to decide whether to get a 35 MCAT or 3.9 GPA, cause you can't have both?

 

[aldol16]

First of all, thanks to every single one of you for contributing your opinion! The reason I asked the question is that I am still trying to make sense of the specific characteristics of two metric components of med school application. In my opinion, they are significantly differ in nature where MCAT takes a snapshot of your one time performance that can be affected by multitude of reasons, and the other one is longitudinal representation of your academic performance, which to some degree CAN definitely be misrepresented by the college you go to. I wanted to know what the majority of people in the medical field think about it. If you were an adcom today whom would you find more competitive, to put in another words, whom would you find you trustworthy of giving a seat in the medical school? 3.9 GPA+31 MCAT OR 3.5GPA+35MCAT??

For adcoms who are MDs, I think this question will depend where they went to school and their personal history. We all tend to like people who are like us and I don't think that's any different MD admissions. People tend to choose people who are like them and, in my opinion, this is what perpetuates the whole box-checking aspect of MD admissions. That is, people think, "If I had to do it, they should too!"

 

[clyde91]

It's like you're making a D&D character and choosing where to put your stat points.

Are you trying to decide whether to get a 35 MCAT or 3.9 GPA, cause you can't have both?

Honestly, I am not talking about myself here. I already have my own GPA and MCAT with which I will apply. This question is rather philosophical and for the sake of starting conversation with other pre-meds.

 

[clyde91]

For adcoms who are MDs, I think this question will depend where they went to school and their personal history. We all tend to like people who are like us and I don't think that's any different MD admissions. People tend to choose people who are like them and, in my opinion, this is what perpetuates the whole box-checking aspect of MD admissions. That is, people think, "If I had to do it, they should too!"

I strongly agree with you on it, and this is where the subjectivity can play a beneficial or the detrimental role depending on the matching quotient 🙂

 

[el_duderino]

Honestly, I am not talking about myself here. I already have my own GPA and MCAT with which I will apply. This question is rather philosophical and for the sake of starting conversation with other pre-meds.

There have been about fifty thousand threads on SDN waxing philosophical on the exact meaning of an applicant's stats.

 

[Cotterpin]

If you were an adcom today whom would you find more competitive, to put in another words, whom would you find you trustworthy of giving a seat in the medical school? 3.9 GPA+31 MCAT OR 3.5GPA+35MCAT??

This is kind of a terrible question because if I were an adcom today, I wouldn't have to judge somebody's trustworthiness based on two numbers. I would be able to see the whole application and that would make all the difference.

But in this hypothetical situation if I could only see the numbers, I would value the MCAT score more because at least that's standardized. I know what kind of skills and intelligence a person needs to get a 35 on the MCAT, but god knows what's going on with the gpa. Maybe the 3.5 student was an engineering major and the 3.9 did underwater basket weaving and fit the premed classes in on the side.

 

[clyde91]

There have been about fifty thousand threads on SDN waxing philosophical on the exact meaning of an applicant's stats.

Dear Jonnythan, does it bother you, if I have created my own thread with my own focus and with my own audience but same old theme? I thought this forum was for sharing knowledge and improving communication. I am sorry if I presented myself to you as another Pre-Med who does not have enough patience to go back 3 years ago to read the same thread. But I guess as time changes, and the audience of forum changes it is nice to come back to the good-old topic of Mcat vs GPA.

 

[clyde91]

This is kind of a terrible question because if I were an adcom today, I wouldn't have to judge somebody's trustworthiness based on two numbers. I would be able to see the whole application and that would make all the difference.

But in this hypothetical situation if I could only see the numbers, I would value the MCAT score more because at least that's standardized. I know what kind of skills and intelligence a person needs to get a 35 on the MCAT, but god knows what's going on with the gpa. Maybe the 3.5 student was an engineering major and the 3.9 did underwater basket weaving and fit the premed classes in on the side.

So you would value differ majors not the same? What do you think about being Double Major comparably with only one then? And if you don't mind what would be the most challenging major in your opinion?

 

[Cotterpin]

So you would value differ majors not the same? What do you think about being Double Major comparably with only one then? And if you don't mind what would be the most challenging major in your opinion?

It's not that I would value majors differently, but knowing something about what classes a student took would give me context to interpret their gpa. But again, this is all stupid because nobody evaluates applicants this way. Adcoms are always saying that they don't care what your major was. If your major was art history, that's not going to put you at a disadvantage as long as you did well in it. Double majors don't help.

I imagine that different majors would be more challenging depending on the person. Somebody might be a math and science whiz who is great at physics but would have flunked out of school if they had to take art and music classes. All I can say is for myself I would have had the hardest time with econ because I would have actually died of boredom in the first semester.

 

[Anxious Affect]

If you go through LizzyM score analysis, by and large someone with the same LizzyM score but whose GPA contributes to it more than the MCAT often historical norms shows has a slightly [higher] chance of acceptance. In other words historical norms show a 3.9/31 tends to have slightly more success than a 3.5/35.

I would like to comment on a possible confounding third variable. Though this definitely is not always true, the applicant with the high GPA/low MCAT may possess a stronger work ethic than the student with the low GPA/high MCAT to subconsciously compensate for lower intrinsic/standardized testing ability. Therefore, this student may be balancing more extracurricular activities, clinical volunteering, jobs, internships, etc. Just an interesting thought that may account for this LizzyM acceptance correlation, as we cannot strictly look at numbers.

 

[Goro]

None of my MD colleagues on the Adcom has thought this way in this lifetime or any other.

BTW, the idea of "box checking" is a pre-med invention, created by people who have no inkling as to why med schools require these things.

It's a fool's errand to ask "who has the better chance: A/B or B/A"?

For adcoms who are MDs, I think this question will depend where they went to school and their personal history. We all tend to like people who are like us and I don't think that's any different MD admissions. People tend to choose people who are like them and, in my opinion, this is what perpetuates the whole box-checking aspect of MD admissions. That is, people think, "If I had to do it, they should too!"

 

[Med Ed]

The reason I asked the question is that I am still trying to make sense of the specific characteristics of two metric components of med school application.

Higher is better.