MD or DO? Why not combine?

[demize]

Hey people, I've actually researched both and have been thinking for a while now, why do some people tend to look down on Osteopathic physicians? It seems as though they do the EXACT same thing except they do a little MORE towards the end compared to Allopathic training. Nowadays it seems as though Allopathic and Osteopathic doctors are mixing each others techniques to the point that one day they will be considered the same or almost the same. Why don't they just go ahead and incorporate both of them now so future physicians are better trained?

Then again I'm just a pre-med... I'm hoping there is someone more knowledgeable on this subject matter that can leave a reply.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[illegallysmooth]

Oh lawdy

 

[DocMcCoy]

How's it going? I see you are new to the forums. For future reference there is a search function that you can use to find probably over 100 threads on the MD-DO debate. They all usually end with the thread being closed. You make a good point. They do the exact same thing. A little bit of research will answer your question about why combining the degrees probably will never happen.

 

[elektroshok]

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Hello =), I'd like to welcome you to SDN. I would also like to tell you that while they are different degree's they hold the same benefits and outside of the pre-med environment they are not looked down upon.

 

[schrizto]

I have read a bit into this topic, and it is not something new. There have been quite a few threads that were like "DO should become MD" or "Hey, I've got a great idea, let's make DO into MDO!" etc. All were met with hostility. The AACOM would never allow it, and you'll also see that there are doctors that are really proud of being called a DO that will oppose any change to make DOs called MDs.

 

[IndianVercetti]

I have read a bit into this topic, and it is not something new. There have been quite a few threads that were like "DO should become MD" or "Hey, I've got a great idea, let's make DO into MDO!" etc. All were met with hostility. The AACOM would never allow it, and you'll also see that there are doctors that are really proud of being called a DO that will oppose any change to make DOs called MDs.

You are right, I know plenty.

 

[searun]

OP, you make some good points. But it is is kind of like suggesting that the Germans and the French combine to form a single country.....too much history.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

OP, you make some good points. But it is is kind of like suggesting that the Germans and the French combine to form a single country.....too much history.

Apparently you've never heard of the EU =P.
The reality is your argument holds a lot of merit, there is a lot of history between DO's and MD's including a long history of trying to kill off the DO's to end possible competition. In historical context, DO's were much more successful with OMM to heal rather then MD's with toxic drugs. However at this point DO's and MD's are almost indistinguishable. I would be happy that one day the AAMC and AAOMC mend together and DO's and MD's can at least have the same regulatory body.

 

[mcgyver]

or the US and Canada combine to be a single country

OP, you make some good points. But it is is kind of like suggesting that the Germans and the French combine to form a single country.....too much history.

 

[morning]

 

[WNT Signaling]

There are several problems, so I'll list a few:

--You'd have to combine the hierarchies of both organizations, and people with specific blue ribbon posts aren't about to relinquish them

--DO schools would fall under LCME accreditation, and it's doubtful that all of them would meet LCME standards

--You would have to combine COMLEX and USMLE, but the problem is that COMLEX tests OMM

 

[searun]

Apparently you've never heard of the EU =P.
The reality is your argument holds a lot of merit, there is a lot of history between DO's and MD's including a long history of trying to kill off the DO's to end possible competition. In historical context, DO's were much more successful with OMM to heal rather then MD's with toxic drugs. However at this point DO's and MD's are almost indistinguishable. I would be happy that one day the AAMC and AAOMC mend together and DO's and MD's can at least have the same regulatory body.

Apparently you have never heard of World War I and World War II. Apparently you have never heard of the German occupation of France.

An agreement to use a common European currency and to cooperate on certain issues of economic policy is not equivalent to the merger of two countries with very different cultures and histories, hostile histories in this case.

 

[thesauce]

Hey people, I've actually researched both and have been thinking for a while now, why do some people tend to look down on Osteopathic physicians?

Some people look down on them for the simple fact that the average GPA and MCAT scores of DO schools are lower than MD schools.

It seems as though they do the EXACT same thing except they do a little MORE towards the end compared to Allopathic training.

It probably seems that way to you because it's true.

Nowadays it seems as though Allopathic and Osteopathic doctors are mixing each others techniques to the point that one day they will be considered the same or almost the same.

That day is today

Why don't they just go ahead and incorporate both of them now so future physicians are better trained?

More training does not necessarily mean "better training."

 

[4X4MD]

Apparently you have never heard of World War I and World War II. Apparently you have never heard of the German occupation of France.

An agreement to use a common European currency and to cooperate on certain issues of economic policy is not equivalent to the merger of two countries with very different cultures and histories, hostile histories in this case.

lol...sounds a bit hostile; i don't think that guy meant the EU combined the countries...maybe more along the lines of a jest, if you will...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Apparently you have never heard of World War I and World War II. Apparently you have never heard of the German occupation of France.

An agreement to use a common European currency and to cooperate on certain issues of economic policy is not equivalent to the merger of two countries with very different cultures and histories, hostile histories in this case.

Apparently you haven't heard of the many transgressions we've had with foreign powers and are now allies or together with us (Hawaii, Southwest). Just because my parents tried to kill your parents doesn't mean I'll hold similar sentiments .
And yet through all this history they have ceased this violent history and disposition to each other. They have since 1950 worked together in many economic and social policy making. To the point that when the Euro-union actually decayed the borders of those countries. You know can enter either country without a visa and maintain rights of a citizen. Realistically its not just a economic mending its a mending of so many levels that without which both those nations are beyond symbiosis.

Well i'm not going to argue on historical bases of Franco-German transgressions post Charlemagne( founder of arguable both nations( Don't say Otto Von Bismark )).

DO's and MD's can unite and ok no need to give up a identity but I can not see the problem in the AAMC and AAOMC actually being closely intermingled and working together.

Btw no need to be so crazy. The EU joke was relatively a jest of mine trying to say that its very possible for the organizations which govern DO's and MD's to be more closely related.

 

[Cmaj7th]

DOs and MDs are interchangeable. I think people on this forum, pre-meds in particular, make it into a bigger deal than it is in the real world. I dont care about initials for my doc, I just want someone who's dedicated to providing good care!

 

[njbmd]

DOs and MDs are interchangeable. I think people on this forum, pre-meds in particular, make it into a bigger deal than it is in the real world. I dont care about initials for my doc, I just want someone who's dedicated to providing good care!

The two degrees are NOT interchangeable. I wouldn't know anything about osteopathic manipulations and DO residencies were not open to me as an MD. Both degrees do afford one an opportunity to become a physician but the biggest hurdle would be getting the American Osteopathic Association and the American Medical Association to "jive" with each other.

The two degrees are equivalent in every way but dropping me into an osteopathic residency would not be good for patients in those practices who needed and want those OMMs. As an MD, I am not the same as a DO but my degree is equivalent.

 

[orthomyxo]

In b4 teh

 

[schrizto]

Apparently you haven't heard of the many transgressions we've had with foreign powers and are now allies or together with us (Hawaii, Southwest). Just because my parents tried to kill your parents doesn't mean I'll hold similar sentiments .
And yet through all this history they have ceased this violent history and disposition to each other. They have since 1950 worked together in many economic and social policy making. To the point that when the Euro-union actually decayed the borders of those countries. You know can enter either country without a visa and maintain rights of a citizen. Realistically its not just a economic mending its a mending of so many levels that without which both those nations are beyond symbiosis.

Well i'm not going to argue on historical bases of Franco-German transgressions post Charlemagne( founder of arguable both nations( Don't say Otto Von Bismark )).

DO's and MD's can unite and ok no need to give up a identity but I can not see the problem in the AAMC and AAOMC actually being closely intermingled and working together.

Btw no need to be so crazy. The EU joke was relatively a jest of mine trying to say that its very possible for the organizations which govern DO's and MD's to be more closely related.

You say "DO and MDs can unite". But there really is no feud. They already are united, because they both have the same mission of producing physicians. It's not some bloody, grievous strife like some premeds on here make it to be. MD and DO are being compared to countries formerly at war in this thread, which is silly.

 

[softmed]

From the DOs I've been talking to this is the difference between the two degrees:

DO = OMM

MD = Statistics and Epidemiology

Besides that the training is exactly the same. It's not enough to justify the two different degrees.

And according to the DO I shadowed recently, OMM is part physical therapy, part voodoo.

So the only reason I could see MDs looking down on DOs is because they do not learn statistics, which is obviously much more useful than OMM in 9 out of 10 cases. The only time you'd find OMM useful is if you're going to get into a specialty involving the musculoskeletal system.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The two degrees are NOT interchangeable. I wouldn't know anything about osteopathic manipulations and DO residencies were not open to me as an MD. Both degrees do afford one an opportunity to become a physician but the biggest hurdle would be getting the American Osteopathic Association and the American Medical Association to "jive" with each other.

The two degrees are equivalent in every way but dropping me into an osteopathic residency would not be good for patients in those practices who needed and want those OMMs. As an MD, I am not the same as a DO but my degree is equivalent.

I wouldn't go so far to say as to say DO residencies are bad. I'm forced to say that OMM is very much a dieing practice as many DO's outside of Family Practice barely use it. AOA and AMA being cool with each other is the main problem and there "jive" with each other.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You say "DO and MDs can unite". But there really is no feud. They already are united, because they both have the same mission of producing physicians. It's not some bloody, grievous strife like some premeds on here make it to be. MD and DO are being compared to countries formerly at war in this thread, which is silly.

When I say unite I mean form a single governing body. Anyway VSPR theory is a sign of AMA and AOA fighting.

 

[IndianVercetti]

stop worrying about this, work hard, and you'll be successful
MD or DO, it honestly doesn't matter

 

[Tarenthyl]

Im sure it comes down to money and power. Common sense would say the difference between the degrees is minimal and why not just have MD programs and offer a certificate in OMM? Heck, more physciians could be trained in OMM in every medical school in the country and those that didn't want to do it, would not have to.

Makes perfect sense right? You would have more OMM practitioners and less people "faking" their way through it in DO programs. You would also have less confusion iin patients who ask what a DO is. The "DO philosophy" is bunk anyhow. You could also combine all the residency programs and have only one match, etc. etc. etc.

But, lets be real. The powers behind the AOA make money and have power. Why would they dissolve that organizational body and lose their power, even if it makes sense and would be for the greater good?

 

[J1515]

From the DOs I've been talking to this is the difference between the two degrees:

DO = OMM

MD = Statistics and Epidemiology

Besides that the training is exactly the same. It's not enough to justify the two different degrees.

And according to the DO I shadowed recently, OMM is part physical therapy, part voodoo.

So the only reason I could see MDs looking down on DOs is because they do not learn statistics, which is obviously much more useful than OMM in 9 out of 10 cases. The only time you'd find OMM useful is if you're going to get into a specialty involving the musculoskeletal system.

Just wanted to make a quick correction. The majority of DO schools do infact teach statistics and epidemiology these days. It's been worked into the curriculum over the past 8 years or so.

 

[DrBowtie]

LCME has standards....COCA pretty much doesn't.

 

[DrMom]

Just wanted to make a quick correction. The majority of DO schools do infact teach statistics and epidemiology these days. It's been worked into the curriculum over the past 8 years or so.

Yep. I had to take them.

 

[illegallysmooth]

IMO, mostly it comes down to that ring that "MD" has in the ol' ear drums.

 

[Geekchick921]

I suggest we eliminate MD and DO and just embroider "Cleric" after the physician's name on their lab coat. Problem solved!

Alternatively, how about everyone is granted the "I can save your life" degree. We can abbreviate it to ICSYL and embroider that. It looks pretty.