md/phd at location I don't really like (mistake applying) vs PhD at favorite school/program, MD after

[starscollidehi]

Hi! I recently was accepted to both an MD/PhD program at a non-top 50 school (ranking doesn't matter to me though), it was my last choice and I wasn't sure I should apply initially. I did, and was accepted, but upon visiting, I really don't like the location/state/city the school is in (it's an 8 year program!), the research I could do is very limiting/not in my area of interest, and I also was accepted to a PhD program at one of my favorite schools and favorite programs!! Now, I realize that I probably should not have applied to that specific MD/PhD. And I realize how lucky I am to have been accepted. I in no way want to sound arrogant, but feel like I'm in quite a pickle. Since I've already been accepted (have not matriculated yet), if I end up going to the PhD program only school, what are the odds I could reapply and be accepted to med school again? (granted I retake MCAT and will have a PhD, and do not apply to that same med school I got in for MD/PhD). The solo PhD program is not in the biomedical sciences, and is more animal biology/psychology focused. The MD/PhD research part is straight biomedical sciences.

Truth be told, I am more certain about my PhD direction than the MD part. I am still debating between MD and DVM (I love behavior/neurology, know it is more developed on the MD side and more limiting on DVM side, but still...), so with doing a PhD first, I will have the flexibility to choose between DVM or MD after. But if I decide MD, will I basically not be able to get in again? Idk, as a re-applicant who was already accepted, isn't that really frowned upon (is what I've heard?) Of course if I have a half "decent" excuse, but still. I just cannot envision myself living in a city I hate, doing a PhD I am only slightly interested in, all for the financial/slightly shortened time benefits. Am I being stupid here, choosing to first do a PhD at a location I love/research I like, then waiting to do MD after? Also because I want a significant chunk of my career to be devoted to research (mostly comparative research, animal behavior/neurology), is going into all the MD loans stupid, since that will limit how much research time I can do (I have to do more clinical to pay back loans after?) Just wanted some med students' advice Thank you very much and sorry for the long text!!

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[Lem0nz]

If you want to be an MD, ever, this is your shot. Take it.

If you don't want to be an MD and are happy doing a PhD in something that sounds, for the most part, very unrelated to human medicine, then don't do it. That's fine. If you want to be a researcher the rest of your life, why are you going to even bother with the MD piece, particularly if your research interests are not in that? That doesn't make sense. That is lots of loans and a job you won't like very much.

 

[Goro]

Hi! I recently was accepted to both an MD/PhD program at a non-top 50 school (ranking doesn't matter to me though), it was my last choice and I wasn't sure I should apply initially. I did, and was accepted, but upon visiting, I really don't like the location/state/city the school is in (it's an 8 year program!), the research I could do is very limiting/not in my area of interest, and I also was accepted to a PhD program at one of my favorite schools and favorite programs!! Now, I realize that I probably should not have applied to that specific MD/PhD. And I realize how lucky I am to have been accepted. I in no way want to sound arrogant, but feel like I'm in quite a pickle. Since I've already been accepted (have not matriculated yet), if I end up going to the PhD program only school, what are the odds I could reapply and be accepted to med school again? (granted I retake MCAT and will have a PhD, and do not apply to that same med school I got in for MD/PhD). The solo PhD program is not in the biomedical sciences, and is more animal biology/psychology focused. The MD/PhD research part is straight biomedical sciences.

Truth be told, I am more certain about my PhD direction than the MD part. I am still debating between MD and DVM (I love behavior/neurology, know it is more developed on the MD side and more limiting on DVM side, but still...), so with doing a PhD first, I will have the flexibility to choose between DVM or MD after. But if I decide MD, will I basically not be able to get in again? Idk, as a re-applicant who was already accepted, isn't that really frowned upon (is what I've heard?) Of course if I have a half "decent" excuse, but still. I just cannot envision myself living in a city I hate, doing a PhD I am only slightly interested in, all for the financial/slightly shortened time benefits. Am I being stupid here, choosing to first do a PhD at a location I love/research I like, then waiting to do MD after? Also because I want a significant chunk of my career to be devoted to research (mostly comparative research, animal behavior/neurology), is going into all the MD loans stupid, since that will limit how much research time I can do (I have to do more clinical to pay back loans after?) Just wanted some med students' advice Thank you very much and sorry for the long text!!

Dump the MD.PHD program and see how things shake out after you get your PHD

 

[SurfingDoctor]

The Vice Chair of Research I know did a PhD first, post doc and then went to medical school. It happens.

All that being said, I would suggest you visit the threads in the Physician-Scientists forum to get a better gauge of the MD vs PhD vs MD/PhD career paths. Just as point, no PhD will ever offer the same career stability a MD does.

 

[Redpancreas]

Hi! I recently was accepted to both an MD/PhD program at a non-top 50 school (ranking doesn't matter to me though), it was my last choice and I wasn't sure I should apply initially. I did, and was accepted, but upon visiting, I really don't like the location/state/city the school is in (it's an 8 year program!), the research I could do is very limiting/not in my area of interest, and I also was accepted to a PhD program at one of my favorite schools and favorite programs!! Now, I realize that I probably should not have applied to that specific MD/PhD. And I realize how lucky I am to have been accepted. I in no way want to sound arrogant, but feel like I'm in quite a pickle. Since I've already been accepted (have not matriculated yet), if I end up going to the PhD program only school, what are the odds I could reapply and be accepted to med school again? (granted I retake MCAT and will have a PhD, and do not apply to that same med school I got in for MD/PhD). The solo PhD program is not in the biomedical sciences, and is more animal biology/psychology focused. The MD/PhD research part is straight biomedical sciences.

Truth be told, I am more certain about my PhD direction than the MD part. I am still debating between MD and DVM (I love behavior/neurology, know it is more developed on the MD side and more limiting on DVM side, but still...), so with doing a PhD first, I will have the flexibility to choose between DVM or MD after. But if I decide MD, will I basically not be able to get in again? Idk, as a re-applicant who was already accepted, isn't that really frowned upon (is what I've heard?) Of course if I have a half "decent" excuse, but still. I just cannot envision myself living in a city I hate, doing a PhD I am only slightly interested in, all for the financial/slightly shortened time benefits. Am I being stupid here, choosing to first do a PhD at a location I love/research I like, then waiting to do MD after? Also because I want a significant chunk of my career to be devoted to research (mostly comparative research, animal behavior/neurology), is going into all the MD loans stupid, since that will limit how much research time I can do (I have to do more clinical to pay back loans after?) Just wanted some med students' advice Thank you very much and sorry for the long text!!

I would be wary of an MD/PhD that is not MSTP. Agree with the surggestion about asking the physician scientist forum what to do.

 

[pBar]

It seems like you are more set on the PhD at the moment rather than the physician-scientist training pathway. I would suggest really asking yourself "why MD-PhD?" You've made it clear you really want t spend the majority of your career as a researcher and that you already have some of your research interests pretty well set. What would an MD do to benefit you on your career trajectory?

As well, is this MD-PhD program an MSTP and if not does it still guarantee full funding for the 8 years. Depending on how important finances are to you, this can be important if you find that both degrees are necessary for what you want to do. If you were to choose to go the PhD route first and then apply MD after, would the PhD department you've been accepted to be funding your training, or will you be taking loans out for it? The length of training required to get an MD and a PhD, along with post graduate training (Post doc, residency, fellowship, etc.) is a huge time commitment and finances can (unfortunately) play a large role on decisions you might make later down the line.

Also if you haven't, I would try to talk to researchers in your field who are pure PhD's and who are MD/PhD's, to get a feel for what the difference in training may afford you regarding future career goals.

If I were you, based on what you've said, I would probably just go for the PhD. 8 years is a long time to spend at an institution in a city you quite obviously dislike, and working on a PhD in a field you are not interested in. Finances may be the only snag depending on your personal assets, how well the other PhD program is willing to fund you, and your certainty on pursuing an MD afterwards.

 

[Lucca]

If you want to be an MD, ever, this is your shot. Take it.

If you don't want to be an MD and are happy doing a PhD in something that sounds, for the most part, very unrelated to human medicine, then don't do it. That's fine. If you want to be a researcher the rest of your life, why are you going to even bother with the MD piece, particularly if your research interests are not in that? That doesn't make sense. That is lots of loans and a job you won't like very much.

I basically agree with this. Although it's not far fetched that you could get into an MD program post PhD. Plenty of people choose to do that whether or not MD was in the cards originally or not. But it would be much, much more straightforward to make the choice now as opposed to later since your hand has been forced more or less.

If you truly do not think you could adapt and find a way to thrive at the MD/PhD program, well don't do it or consider doing only an MD there, paying for it, and putting the research training off until residency and beyond if you are more of the MD > PhD minded MD/PhD; although that does not sound like you. I agree with others 8 + years is a long time to be somewhere you dont want to be. 4 years, especially in med school where you are so busy and honestly time flies by, could be tolerable.

 

[Splenda88]

It seems like you are more set on the PhD at the moment rather than the physician-scientist training pathway. I would suggest really asking yourself "why MD-PhD?" You've made it clear you really want t spend the majority of your career as a researcher and that you already have some of your research interests pretty well set. What would an MD do to benefit you on your career trajectory?

As well, is this MD-PhD program an MSTP and if not does it still guarantee full funding for the 8 years. Depending on how important finances are to you, this can be important if you find that both degrees are necessary for what you want to do. If you were to choose to go the PhD route first and then apply MD after, would the PhD department you've been accepted to be funding your training, or will you be taking loans out for it? The length of training required to get an MD and a PhD, along with post graduate training (Post doc, residency, fellowship, etc.) is a huge time commitment and finances can (unfortunately) play a large role on decisions you might make later down the line.

Also if you haven't, I would try to talk to researchers in your field who are pure PhD's and who are MD/PhD's, to get a feel for what the difference in training may afford you regarding future career goals.

If I were you, based on what you've said, I would probably just go for the PhD. 8 years is a long time to spend at an institution in a city you quite obviously dislike, and working on a PhD in a field you are not interested in. Finances may be the only snag depending on your personal assets, how well the other PhD program is willing to fund you, and your certainty on pursuing an MD afterwards.

As someone said above: Career stability, which is something no one should ignore.

 

[Orims]

It is totally viable to pursue an MD after a PhD. I met at least half a dozen other PhDs during this year's interview cycle who were also applying. I decided during my 3rd year of my PhD that life as a researcher was not for me and worked towards obtaining an MD after my PhD. Balancing research and premed activities as a PhD student was rough, but it also provided a much needed respite from being in a microscope room for 8 hours imaging. I was lucky that I had all my course requirements from my undergrad, research experience from the PhD, and some other volunteering activities I did out of my own interest before deciding to apply to med school. All I needed to do was get clinical exposure and shadowing. MCAT studying while writing and publishing a paper was something else though, do not recommend!

Best of luck!

 

[Zebracarns]

Check out the 3 year MD program at Columbia for PhD holders.

 

[Banco]

If you are certain you want to be MD, take the chance you've been given.

But it seems like you're not even sure necessarily if you want MD or DVM - in that case, go PhD route and see where that takes you. You can always apply again and I personally know people who received PhD's prior to medical school - it is definitely doable.

 

[Nugester]

If there is any inkling you will want an MD, take the MD/PhD. Doesn't make much financial sense to go back after PhD and take out loans for MD, unless it isn't a fully funded MSTP/Physician Scientist program. Also, you might want to check with other members of your program if 8 years is set in stone; at least for my spouse, she finished her MD/PhD in 7 and a bunch others did that before her/after her. Also, you may be surprised on how much you like the city once you live there.

 

[wondervisions]

It feels really ****ty to study for step 1 while questioning if this is the right career path for you.

Take the PhD.

 

[GadRads]

The job market for PhDs is tough, even if coming from Harvard. An MD offers more options. Is the MD/PhD fully funded? If I could tolerate 8 years and not go insane in this city, I would do it and get out. Otherwise you can pursue the PhD and re-apply for the MD if you are truly interested in it.

 

[wondervisions]

The job market for PhDs is tough, even if coming from Harvard. An MD offers more options. Is the MD/PhD fully funded? If I could tolerate 8 years and not go insane in this city, I would do it and get out. Otherwise you can pursue the PhD and re-apply for the MD if you are truly interested in it.

Job market for PhDs in academia is rough, but a PhD sets you up well for a variety of jobs outside of academia, from consulting to commercial science. MD/PhD training is minimum 12 year to be able to practice medicine.

Do not go to medical school unless you are absolutely sure this is what you want to do.

 

[mr_unlimited]

I was in a very similar situation not too long ago, picking between MD/PhD in a good but non-ideal program, versus a really compelling PhD offer. I chose the latter, and have now gone through the MD cycle and gotten into some really great schools. There certainly are some schools that don't look kindly upon reapplicants, even if you are super qualified, but there are enough "open-minded" institutions that I think you should be just fine.

I chose the PhD with pretty similar reasoning as you -- it was what I was most excited about at the time. I don't regret it at all. One, I love research, and if you're in a good environment and you love research, you'll love the PhD. Two, doing the PhD helped me realize that I really needed medicine in my life to be truly satisfied. I'm now going to enter medical school with so much more motivation than I would have had had I chosen the MD/PhD earlier. The financial considerations, however, are certainly non-trivial. As you wisely point out, being a physician-scientist isn't a very lucrative career, which could make it difficult to pay off medical school loans. The good news is that the top schools are offering more and more in merit aid each year, so if you're a really competitive applicant, you could avoid medical school debt. Let me tell you something though that I didn't recognize initially -- many schools reserve those scholarships for their highest-stats applicants, not always the applicants who shine in other ways. So if you have to retake the MCAT, I'd recommend aiming for a really high score if your plan is to land a merit scholarship.

So I say go do your PhD, and really reflect during that time if you really want a medical career. Especially since your research won't be very clinical, spend a lot of time shadowing and doing medical volunteering. Not only will this help you build a stronger application, it'll also help you figure out what you really want. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.