MD vs DO

[FutureDoctor19]

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I know this may sound stupid..but whats the difference between the two? I want to become a pediatrican or get a residency in emergency medicine. Is this possible if I got to a DO school? How much do DO's make compared to MD's?

 

[Docgeorge]

Do a search on this froum. This toppic has been fully explored. You make the same base pay as an MD. If you incorporate OMM into your practice you make more, a lot more. You can do any specialty you want.

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by FutureDoctor19
How much do DO's make compared to MD's?

This is like saying how much do "doctors" make compared to "doctors." DO=MD + a little extra training in manipulation

You can be a surgeon, anesthesiologist, radiologist or any specialty you can name as a DO. Just gotta be a good student to get the top specialties

Talk to Old Man Dave, an anesthesiologist at Dartmouth or QuinnNSU an Emergency room physician at University of South Florida.

 

[skypilot]

Look at all the DOs doing pediatric residencies at University of Massachusetts.


http://www.baystatehealth.com/3489/1030/2304/Residents/General_General_r.html

 

[PublicHealth]

😳 😳 😳

 

[gezundheit]

When one decides to become a DO instead of an MD, it is not because of final destination to a residency nor a comparison of how much money he/she may make. I'll tell you what, ask yourself what your own self-perception is of who you are and attempt to envision the way in which you would like to treat patients. Ask yourself, from a patient's eyes, how you would like to be treated and percieved from your doctor. Differences in each as far as capability by title are none, but differences in philosophy, in way of teachings, and how you will be molded to think, are many. Good luck to you.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by skypilot
This is like saying how much do "doctors" make compared to "doctors." DO=MD + a little extra training in manipulation

You can be a surgeon, anesthesiologist, radiologist or any specialty you can name as a DO. Just gotta be a good student to get the top specialties

Talk to Old Man Dave, an anesthesiologist at Dartmouth or QuinnNSU an Emergency room physician at University of South Florida.

Yeop... I know a DO EM attending who has offered me $250k after finishing residency to work in the ED he is in charge of.

Q, DO

 

[Ca$h MaNi]

You're everywhere aren't ya, do2md...you like to cause trouble everywhere...I gotta ask you...what is your big beef with D.O.'s and pre-D.O.'s? whats so wrong with them becoming doctors...

why do you like to keep bringing up the issue of repeating courses....what is so inherently wrong in that? I was accepted to both schools and I retook courses because I had problems in my earlier years with my mom having a mental illness and my father being diagnosed with cancer...is there a problem with turning around your life and having to retake courses? I dont understand your issue...you seem to have some sort of resentment towards those who went thru rough times or those who might've partied their first years and then turned it around and matured...you seem to equate being a D.O. to not being a hard-worker...think again.

Everyone worked just as hard to get into medical school so stop complaining about other people's troubles and how its wrong that they became physicians still...obviously a certain maturity level never came with your application. Get real do2md!

 

[PublicHealth]

Originally posted by QuinnNSU
Yeop... I know a DO EM attending who has offered me $250k after finishing residency to work in the ED he is in charge of.

Q, DO

Dag yo.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by PublicHealth
Dag yo.

its more of the fact that its EM, not necessarily a DO or MD thing. I know several DO EM attendings who pull in well over 350k a year, working no more than 40 hours a week (and no pager!).

Q, DO

 

[gonakillmcat]

If DO= MD + MORE... than why is it that every MD school has tougher admissions requirements than DO schools? just wondering.. any ideas?

 

[ez073323]

gonakillmcat,

I am of the opinion that DO schools have "lower" numerical admissions requirements because DO schools want to make themselves available to a significantly larger portion of the premedical community. By loosening such numerical requirements, DO schools all of a sudden have available to them people that most likely make outstanding physicians even though they weren't in the 95th percentile of their college or mcat admisitration day...

I know I wasn't the strogest undergrad, but given the chance to be a doctor, i know i will serve my patients and community well.

Brian

 

[DD214_DOC]

As I have said time and time again, they have lower standards because they are less competitive than the MD schools, meaning fewer people apply. Most people with high standards apply to the MD schools because they don't know any better.

Remember, DO schools are fairly new. Within 10-20 years they will be even more competitive than they are now.

 

[aquaboy]

Originally posted by JKDMed
Most people with high standards apply to the MD schools because they don't know any better.

Remember, DO schools are fairly new. Within 10-20 years they will be even more competitive than they are now.

While I agree with the above statement, I don't think that admissions standards for DO schools will be on par with the standards for allopathic schools for quite a while. I have posted a topic asking those who have turned down an allopathic acceptance for an osteopathic school (see below):

http://www.studentdoctor.net/forums...ghlight=choosing with acceptance&pagenumber=1

I have counted the actaul number of people that responded who turned down a U.S. allopathic acceptance for a DO school and the number is 3!!!!!!!!!!! The majority of people that I know use DO schools as a backup. I did and even though I had a wonderful time interviewing at the school I couldn't justify the extra money and the fact that attending my allopathic choice will open more doors for residency.

DO admissions standards are lower because they do not attract students with high stats. They may look at the overall applicant but I'm sure DO schools would like to have higher admissions standards (numbers) and would like to recruit the higher stat students if they could recruit them.

I highly respect all students of osteopathic medicine and am glad I will be working alongside MD's, DO's, etc. in my profession. For those of you who have chosen osteopathy because that is your goal, congratulations! However don't believe that the majority of your classmates are there because they believe the same thing. Many, in fact initially tried to get into allopathic schools and couldn't due to stats, etc. We will all be doctors and either route can take you where you want to go if you work hard enough!

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by gonakillmcat
If DO= MD + MORE... than why is it that every MD school has tougher admissions requirements than DO schools? just wondering.. any ideas?

It is just supply and demand. Even though the degrees are equivalent everyone knows what an MD is and therefore the demand is much higher. Higher demand means the schools can be more selective.

However there is a lot of overlap. For instance the osteopathic school in New Jersey has a 3.6 average GPA which is higher than a heck of a lot of allopathic schools. Kirksville has a higher average MCAT than 40 allopathic schools.

If the DO schools joined AMCAS you'd see a huge rise in applications because applying would mean just checking off one more box.

 

[zinjanthropus]

which is exactly why i think that reasoning may be faulty....

the earlier poster was correct in pointing out that the reason DO schools have less-competitive admissions standards is because they are less competitive schools.....they are less competitive schools because less people apply to those schools...

it would be very difficult to link that quantitatively to the job market and demand for MDs vs. DOs

the more competitive DO schools have high statistical standards of admissions, just as expected because many more people apply to those programs

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

Originally posted by do2md
He's the one who retook his entire undergraduate curriculum, but didn't know that DO schools erase repeated courses?

do2md

Is there any truth to your name? Did you go to DO school and then to a MD school?

 

[smedly2]

I think there is truth to the do2md name. I think it goes....first rejected from DO schools then moved 2 MD schools and was
rejected by them. It all began with the rejection from his/her parents.

 

[Shinken]

I disagree. I think what do2md is really trying to say is that DO=2MD! 😉

 

[tkim]

Notice how do2md is now a 'guest' and not a member?

Wonder if he de-registered himself ... or someone did it for him.

Whatever.

- Tae

 

[jkhamlin]

Originally posted by JKDMed
As I have said time and time again, they have lower standards because they are less competitive than the MD schools, meaning fewer people apply. Most people with high standards apply to the MD schools because they don't know any better.

Remember, DO schools are fairly new. Within 10-20 years they will be even more competitive than they are now.

"It is also more competitive to get into osteopathic schools: Fewer than one in five applicants are accepted."

-Kaplan Medical School Admissions Adviser 2000 Ed. page 42

 

[aquaboy]

Originally posted by jkhamlin
"It is also more competitive to get into osteopathic schools: Fewer than one in five applicants are accepted."

-Kaplan Medical School Admissions Adviser 2000 Ed. page 42

Show me the data. Many allopathic medical schools have a less than 10% acceptance rate. Also for those of you who say that it is getting more competitive to get into osteopathic schools, look at the following link:

http://www.aacom.org/data/advisorupdate/index.html

Just like allopathic schools, less and less people have been applying lately while MCAT scores, GPA averages are increasing. It is interseting to see that for osteopathic schools the average MCAT has actually decreased or remained stagnant in the last couple of years. So don't try telling everyone that it is getting ultra-competitive. Sure the most well respected DO schools may be on par with the low ranked allopathic schools, or state funded MD schools. The average MCAT and GPA has steadily increased for allopathic schools over the last 10 years.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/famg62002a.htm

🙄 🙄

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by aquaboy
Show me the data. Many allopathic medical schools have a less than 10% acceptance rate. Also for those of you who say that it is getting more competitive to get into osteopathic schools, look at the following link:

http://www.aacom.org/data/advisorupdate/index.html

Just like allopathic schools, less and less people have been applying lately while MCAT scores, GPA averages are increasing. It is interseting to see that for osteopathic schools the average MCAT has actually decreased or remained stagnant in the last couple of years. So don't try telling everyone that it is getting ultra-competitive. Sure the most well respected DO schools may be on par with the low ranked allopathic schools, or state funded MD schools. The average MCAT and GPA has steadily increased for allopathic schools over the last 10 years.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/famg62002a.htm

🙄 🙄

yawn
🙄

 

[kpax18]

Originally posted by aquaboy
Show me the data. Many allopathic medical schools have a less than 10% acceptance rate. Also for those of you who say that it is getting more competitive to get into osteopathic schools, look at the following link:

http://www.aacom.org/data/advisorupdate/index.html

Just like allopathic schools, less and less people have been applying lately while MCAT scores, GPA averages are increasing. It is interseting to see that for osteopathic schools the average MCAT has actually decreased or remained stagnant in the last couple of years. So don't try telling everyone that it is getting ultra-competitive. Sure the most well respected DO schools may be on par with the low ranked allopathic schools, or state funded MD schools. The average MCAT and GPA has steadily increased for allopathic schools over the last 10 years.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/famg62002a.htm

🙄 🙄

blah blah blah....
this is worse than nagging
🙄

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by aquaboy
So don't try telling everyone that it is getting ultra-competitive.

Allopathic admissions are currently at 50% of applications. The competition just means you have to check off 30 or so schools on AMCAS and spend $3000.

And oh I am so looking forward to going to school with all these "ultracompetitive" premed geeks. ("not")

😀

 

[jkhamlin]

Originally posted by aquaboy
Show me the data.

Mass quantities of screed removed.

So don't try telling everyone that it is getting ultra-competitive.

🙄

I didn't say anything. I merely posted a quote from the major independent authority on medical school admissions. I gave you a credible reference, no data required unless you want to analyze it. You gave 2 irrelevant references about GPA's, MCAT scores, and such.

 

[aquaboy]

Originally posted by jkhamlin
Mass quantities of screed removed.


🙄

I didn't say anything. I merely posted a quote from the major independent authority on medical school admissions. I gave you a credible reference, no data required unless you want to analyze it. You gave 2 irrelevant references about GPA's, MCAT scores, and such.

So you are trying to say it is harder (hence more competitive) to get into osteopathic schools. Why is it then that the majority of applicants try to get into allopathic schools first. I don't mean to knock osteopathic schools, I interviewed at one and loved it and was accepted. However, I want future applicants to see the truth about med school admissions. We all know that it is more competitive to be accepted to a majority of allopathic schools than to osteopathic schools. Like I said before, in my past post, only 3 people told me they turned down an allopathic acceptance for an osteopathic one. That tells me that the majority of applicants are using osteopathic schools as a back-up. That's not wrong, I did the same thing. We will all be doctors in the end, I just want to make sure future applicants know the truth and go for what ideology fits their plans. If you want to be a doctor, either road will get you there!

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by aquaboy
Like I said before, in my past post, only 3 people told me they turned down an allopathic acceptance for an osteopathic one. That tells me that the majority of applicants are using osteopathic schools as a back-up.

If you want to be a doctor, either road will get you there!

Or maybe people are applying osteopathic without even considering allopathic so they have no allopathic schools to turn down. 😉

A much more level playing field starts when we all begin med school. No longer are we trying to compare Political Science majors at Harvard to Electrical Engineering majors at University of Wisconsin. We'll all be studying the same material and we'll all go as far as our efforts and determination will take us. So whichever road you take, good luck!

 

[jkhamlin]

Originally posted by aquaboy
So you are trying to say it is harder (hence more competitive) to get into osteopathic schools.

I didn't say it, Kaplan did. You can argue with me all day long, and it won't change it.

 

[Dr_sax]

Boy, this topic is wearing thin. If you want an MD behind your name, apply allopathic. If you want a DO, apply osteopathic. If you don't care, apply both. It's that simple.
There are good and bad doctors everywhere- regardless of where they went to school.
Remember the doc in England about four years ago who was found to have perhaps had a hand in the death of 345 of his patients and is now serving 15 consecutive life sentences? Or the physician that was inseminating his female patients with his own sperm? Or the Harvard-trained physician that left his patient in the middle of surgery to run to the bank?
Read this one:http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/primetime_020502_friendmurder_feature.html

My point: not everyone who goes to a "great" school is a good/super intelligent person and not everyone who goes to a "bad" school is a dumb***.
Dr_sax

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by Dr_sax
My point: not everyone who goes to a "great" school is a good/super intelligent person and not everyone who goes to a "bad" school is a dumb***.

Good summary, Dr_sax.

I don't see why we are arguing amongst ourselves now.

 

[nanosomic]

Originally posted by aquaboy
Show me the data. Many allopathic medical schools have a less than 10% acceptance rate. Also for those of you who say that it is getting more competitive to get into osteopathic schools, look at the following link:

http://www.aacom.org/data/advisorupdate/index.html

Just like allopathic schools, less and less people have been applying lately while MCAT scores, GPA averages are increasing. It is interseting to see that for osteopathic schools the average MCAT has actually decreased or remained stagnant in the last couple of years. So don't try telling everyone that it is getting ultra-competitive. Sure the most well respected DO schools may be on par with the low ranked allopathic schools, or state funded MD schools. The average MCAT and GPA has steadily increased for allopathic schools over the last 10 years.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/famg... doctor :rolleyes: :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

 

[stomper627]

I love reading these threads. Most of you make me laugh. Why? Because most of you have NOT COMPLETED 1 DAY of medical school. So why bash the others? It seems that the only people that make such an issue over this topic are premeds...Why not wait....and see? Then you may realize that in the real world....hospitals/clinics, that 98% of people (yes that includes doctors, nurses, patients, etc) that as long as you provide competent care, are kind and respectful, it matters not what you have after your name. Sure there are those that will either have a superiority complex, or an inferior one, and are bothered by what they have after their name, but most are doing this because this is something they wanted to do....be a physician.
stomper
LECOM class of 2005

 

[Ms. Dawson DO]

"I love reading these threads. Most of you make me laugh. Why? Because most of you have NOT COMPLETED 1 DAY of medical school. So why bash the others? It seems that the only people that make such an issue over this topic are premeds...Why not wait....and see? Then you may realize that in the real world....hospitals/clinics, that 98% of people (yes that includes doctors, nurses, patients, etc) that as long as you provide competent care, are kind and respectful, it matters not what you have after your name. Sure there are those that will either have a superiority complex, or an inferior one, and are bothered by what they have after their name, but most are doing this because this is something they wanted to do....be a physician.
stomper"


BRAVO!!! This is what I keep telling both Allo and Osteo pre-meds. Boy when will folks learn? I guess its nature or how we are taught to think....to do reading and so called research and assume you are knowledgeable enough to debate about something you have never experienced.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Originally posted by Ms. Dawson, DO
BRAVO!!! This is what I keep telling both Allo and Osteo pre-meds. Boy when will folks learn? I guess its nature or how we are taught to think....to do reading and so called research and assume you are knowledgeable enough to debate about something you have never experienced.

There's an entire field that does this -- Philosophy!

 

[Dr. Lector]

I've attended a DO school for a year and now I'm attending a MD school and there is no difference at all in the classes you take, execpt for OMM. A physician is a physician.

 

[jkhamlin]

🙄
Is it just my imagination or have the med students just taken over the thread and told us that we premeds are too stupid to carry on a conversation without their approval?

Let me see, the general med student consensus seems to be that we can't possibly talk about med school because we have never been there.

😕

If this is true, then I guess male OBGYN's can never really be good OBGYN's.

If this is true, then I guess junkies really do know more about drugs than scientists.

If this is true, then I guess psychotherapists can never really be any good at helping someone who is not the same gender as themselves.

If this is true, I guess physicians cannot truly understand the science behind anything because most of them haven't gone to PhD school.
😀 😛 😉

 

[kpax18]

Originally posted by Dr. Lector
I've attended a DO school for a year and now I'm attending a MD school and there is no difference at all in the classes you take, execpt for OMM. A physician is a physician.

just out of curiosity,why did you switch?

 

[Plinko]

JKhamlin

I agree that some of the condescension from the medical students here is somewhat over-stated, and a bit harsh. As a DO student, I come to the premed forum to give out advice to those that want it. Mostly for two reasons: there a many premeds that ask "premed questions" in the osteopathic forum which I feel should be posted here (e.g. answering questions here will make the osteopathic forum more oriented to medical school type issues), and, summer boredom waiting for classes to start back up. However, while I think you are right to have your own opinions about medical school, I wouldn't go so far as to say you can't learn more from a medical student's experiences than your own. Similarly, I would never assume to know more about the rigors of residency than a resident does, or the various aspects that make up a medical practice than a physician would, etc.

 

[stomper627]

JKhamlin,
I think you misinterpreted what I stated....and I apologize for offending you.
Basically all I stated was why not accept that the other profession exists and instead of butting heads with the very few individuals who have issues with it, work together with those that do accept the different managements of care. After all, that is the majority of both professions. I do not believe I called anyone "too stupid". I may have inferred naive. And as Plinko put it, I would not pretend to know more than someone further along in school than I.
As a future osteopath, I only hope others in the profession dont attack, nor do they respond to attacks on their profession...it is immature. Let your actions speak for you. If you are a competent caring respectful physician it will matter not if you practice OMM or not, or what letters you have after your name.
Me....I dont know how much OMM I will use in my practice (does depend on the specialty) but I can say as a bodybuilder, for muscle and joint pain....it is my "DOC", but that is not to say it will work for everyone.
stomper

 

[Dr. Lector]

Originally posted by kpax18
just out of curiosity,why did you switch?

I had been accepted really late in the application cycle to a DO school, while I had already started my second applicaton cycle to MD schools. While attending DO school lets just say I had little faith in OMM and the OMM department at my school. Don't get me wrong, from that year of exposure to DO schooling I've learned some of you well become great physicians, just that OMM wasn't for me.

 

[jkhamlin]

Dr. Lector and stomper627:

I wasn't offended, and my post was meant to be only half serious (hence all the smilies). I just thought someone should point out that SOME of the med students were getting a little rowdy over here and picking on us poor innocent little premeds.

About the DO vs. MD thing, I didn't take sides, I merely pointed out a reference for how competitive each is since some people on this thread were kind of making it up as they go.

I do believe that OMM is an advantage that all physicians should want. I don't have a problem with MD's, but I have seen situations where MD's couldn't do a thing for a patient and yet DO's could so the MD's would just start up a polypharmacy regimen on the patient because that's all they could do.

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by jkhamlin
Dr. Lector and stomper627:
I have seen situations where MD's couldn't do a thing for a patient and yet DO's could so the MD's would just start up a polypharmacy regimen on the patient because that's all they could do.

Or even worse break out the scalpel and start cutting when all the guy needs is a little adjustment for his back pain or maybe some physical therapy to strengthen the muscles.