Med School rankings and what they mean

[vicinihil]

hey peeps i have a question for y'all. I;ve heard that usu the med schools ranked in the 30's and under give students more medical experience than top ones like harvard, yale, etc etc which tend to emphasize research. What do you guys think? If I just want to be a practicing physician (speciality unknown but I know I want to specialize)in either a private clinic or an academic hospital, where is best?

I'm currently looking into UVA, Maryland, Tufts, etc

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[CarleneM]

hey peeps i have a question for y'all. I;ve heard that usu the med schools ranked in the 30's and under give students more medical experience than top ones like harvard, yale, etc etc which tend to emphasize research. What do you guys think? If I just want to be a practicing physician (speciality unknown but I know I want to specialize)in either a private clinic or an academic hospital, where is best?

I'm currently looking into UVA, Maryland, Tufts, etc

you should probably look at us news and world report's primary care rankings rather than the research rankings. even if you don't want to go into primary care , the schools at the top of that primary care list place a big emphasis on medical experience and less of an emphasis on research.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

hey peeps i have a question for y'all. I;ve heard that usu the med schools ranked in the 30's and under give students more medical experience than top ones like harvard, yale, etc etc which tend to emphasize research. What do you guys think? If I just want to be a practicing physician (speciality unknown but I know I want to specialize)in either a private clinic or an academic hospital, where is best?

I'm currently looking into UVA, Maryland, Tufts, etc

Research is usually optional even at schools like Harvard and Hopkins, only a few (like stanford) require it.

I don't think you'll be short changed in clinical training if you go to a top 10 "research" school.

 

[PhotoMD]

you should probably look at us news and world report's primary care rankings rather than the research rankings. even if you don't want to go into primary care , the schools at the top of that primary care list place a big emphasis on medical experience and less of an emphasis on research.

I agree partly, because I usually take primary care to mean "clinical medicine." Although, University of Washington (#1 Primary Care) is top 10 in research, so there's an anomaly. Actually, I think top schools give you great medical experiences, and that the emphasis on research is sometimes overstated.

 

[kikkoman]

If you examine the methodology for the primary care rankings, it's totally bunk. Having your main criteria be how many of the school's graduates go into primary care? That's kind of silly.

And top schools don't short change you at all in clinical experience. They tend to have the most money, the best trained physicians, and hence superb clinical teaching. Being "strong in research" almost always translates to great clinical opportunities.

 

[PhotoMD]

If you examine the methodology for the primary care rankings, it's totally bunk. Having your main criteria be how many of the school's graduates go into primary care? That's kind of silly.

And top schools don't short change you at all in clinical experience. They tend to have the most money, the best trained physicians, and hence superb clinical teaching. Being "strong in research" almost always translates to great clinical opportunities.

I disagree with that last sentence. Most of the great researchers I've observed have been terrible teachers. Clinical brilliance and research brilliance do not necessarily go hand in hand. But you are right, primary care rankings are sketchy.

 

[kikkoman]

I disagree with that last sentence. Most of the great researchers I've observed have been terrible teachers. Clinical brilliance and research brilliance do not necessarily go hand in hand. But you are right, primary care rankings are sketchy.

I didn't mean that individual researchers necessarily make great teachers, but institutions that have lots of research almost always have great teaching due to the prestige, etc. associated.

 

[automaton]

medical school rankings mean one school is better than another. which means washington university (#2) is better than hopkins (#3) and so forth.

 

[CarleneM]

one could also argue that the research ratings are "bunk" too. for instance, NIH funding makes a huge difference in these rankings and i dont think that nih funding is a major factor for everyone's choice.

having interviewed at umass, a top primary care school, as well at harvard and other top research schools, i do see a difference in emphasis in the curriculum and earlier more intense clinical experiences at the primary care schools. there was a stronger emphasis on community service and serving the underserved at umass, more so than any other school i've interviewed at. also, my boss has pointed out and i've heard anecdotedly from others that at, say, harvard, students do not do as much on their clerkships as students at some of the less well funded primary care schools. simply because more funds=more staff on hand to do stuff a med student would be doing at another less well funded school. now, i want to do clinical research and so am looking primarily at research institutions (harvard being my top choice) but i do see the above as a drawback for someone who isn't interested in research at all. i certainly wouldn't rule out the top research schools but i wouldn't limit yourself to them either.

 

[Cerberus]

I think state schools tend to give their students the most actual experience. SChools like UMICH (which is a state school but not really) and Vandy get lots of Zebras but there is little room for the students to actually do all that much. State schools in poverty stricken areas are definitely the way to go.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

medical school rankings mean one school is better than another. which means washington university (#2) is better than hopkins (#3) and so forth.

Yes, tis true.

 

[automaton]

i also agree that the most understaffed and financially troubled institutions make for the best clinical experience. for example if you train at drew you'll also learn how to defend yourself in court.

 

[PhotoMD]

i also agree that the most understaffed and financially troubled institutions make for the best clinical experience. for example if you train at drew you'll also learn how to defend yourself in court.

Funniest post of the day.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

i also agree that the most understaffed and financially troubled institutions make for the best clinical experience. for example if you train at drew you'll also learn how to defend yourself in court.

It's true. And no one in their right mind would choose Harvard over a Carribean school (which give you so much clinical experience that they are unranked and sometimes unaccredited!).

Get over the BS and realize that curricula are pretty standard (they have to be for LCME approval, with some flair added at different schools), and that the school has less to do with how successful the physician will be, but rather, top schools attract top students.

Talk about denial, the only thing primary care rankings are good for is if you want to go into primary care-- because that might be the only residency you'll get if you follow their ranking criteria!

 

[vicinihil]

so essentially what I am to get out of this, is that going to a highly ranked med school does nothing more for me than prestige factor, and schools such as UVA or UMCP will train me to as good a physician as will being trained at a top school? What about the residency match possibilities? Are the percentages negligible or will residency directors favor a physician more from a highly prestigious school?

 

[Fantasy Sports]

so essentially what I am to get out of this, is that going to a highly ranked med school does nothing more for me than prestige factor, and schools such as UVA or UMCP will train me to as good a physician as will being trained at a top school? What about the residency match possibilities? Are the percentages negligible or will residency directors favor a physician more from a highly prestigious school?

Basically 95% of the arguments on this thread are bunk (and that probably includes my previous post).

The best thing to do is pull up some residency match sheets for different schools and see how they correlate with what you want to do (and dont just look at one specialty, think about 4-5 specialties that you would consider)

And somehow, contrary to the logic on this thread, "top" USNWR ranked research schools tend to match a much higher percentage of individuals in competitive residencies than other schools. Whether you want to do a competitive residency or not, that is up to you. That's why its best to make your decision based on what/where you want to practice and by comparing that to the match lists.

 

[exmike]

Basically 95% of the arguments on this thread are bunk (and that probably includes my previous post).

The best thing to do is pull up some residency match sheets for different schools and see how they correlate with what you want to do (and dont just look at one specialty, think about 4-5 specialties that you would consider)

now THAT is bunk advice.

Match lists cant be compared directly. If a school only matched one derm, does that mean that only one matched? or does it mean that only one student was interested in derm? What if the entire class at harvard one year decided to do FP? Will their list with no specialty matches man harvard sucks?

Beyond that, you also have to look at what programs they matched to. Sorry, but IM and podunk U is not the same as IM at Johns Hopkins. In fact, its probably harder to get int IM at JHH than ENT at podunk U.

Match lists have to be compared very carefully. Look up the # that go into a given speciality is useless.

 

[doc05]

noone has really answered the OP's question. the answer is no -- there are many top schools that will allow plenty of hands-on clinical experience. just make sure they are in poor, underserved areas. that would include schools like UCSF, Columbia. Certain places (HMS, among others) are very good reputation-wise, but the hospitals are so cush that med students do little to nothing that is "hands-on."

In the end, it doesn't matter much -- the learning curve during intern year is very steep and we all end up with pretty much the same training.

 

[doc05]

p.s. with the 3 places you're considering, go with UVA or Maryland (if you're in-state). Tufts isn't worth the difference in cost.

 

[vicinihil]

So i heard that UVA has gone over to a pass/fail system where the students do not receive a grade but the school keeps a log of scores so they award the top 10% at the end of the first 2 years. I wonder if the classes are made more challenging or if the p/f system makes it easier. I wonder also i heard that clinical experience begins earlier but charlottesville isn't very poor.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

now THAT is bunk advice.

Match lists cant be compared directly. If a school only matched one derm, does that mean that only one matched? or does it mean that only one student was interested in derm? What if the entire class at harvard one year decided to do FP? Will their list with no specialty matches man harvard sucks?

Beyond that, you also have to look at what programs they matched to. Sorry, but IM and podunk U is not the same as IM at Johns Hopkins. In fact, its probably harder to get int IM at JHH than ENT at podunk U.

Match lists have to be compared very carefully. Look up the # that go into a given speciality is useless.

Please

I just love how everyone here is a nihilist and that their logic results in the conclusion that Poduke State > Harvard Med. Give me a break.

Its true, USNWR Research by itself isnt perfect. Its true, USNWR Primary Care is expensive toilet paper. Its true, match lists cant TRULY be compared unless you know what people intended. Its true, Step I averages dont necessarily mean you will be a great doctor. Its true, MCAT average doesnt mean you will be a great medical student.

Blah blah blah blah blah everyone is so busy whining trying to justify how their unranked medical school is better than Harvard, or that they're more personable because they have lower stats, or some other bullcrap.

All you can do is look at what data you consider important. But spare me, nothing is perfect. But at least a match list tells you where people ended up. Sure beats NIH funding and some other random criteria that no one cares about.

 

[uclabruin2003]

i thought exmike was on the dot. though i can see the point of your post....there is no great way to evaluate schools. exmike was only stating that match lists can be used to compare schools but it should be done with caution. And yes im tired too of people arguing that their med school x is as good as harvard.

cant everyone just be happy at where theyre going?

 

[Dr Who]

Please

I just love how everyone here is a nihilist and that their logic results in the conclusion that Poduke State > Harvard Med. Give me a break.

Its true, USNWR Research by itself isnt perfect. Its true, USNWR Primary Care is expensive toilet paper. Its true, match lists cant TRULY be compared unless you know what people intended. Its true, Step I averages dont necessarily mean you will be a great doctor. Its true, MCAT average doesnt mean you will be a great medical student.

Blah blah blah blah blah everyone is so busy whining trying to justify how their unranked medical school is better than Harvard, or that they're more personable because they have lower stats, or some other bullcrap.

All you can do is look at what data you consider important. But spare me, nothing is perfect. But at least a match list tells you where people ended up. Sure beats NIH funding and some other random criteria that no one cares about.

You must have a very small penis to be so insecure.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

You must have a very small penis to be so insecure.

So if someone thinks Harvard is a better school than Drexel, then they are insecure? Get real.

 

[drguy22]

So if someone thinks Harvard is a better school than Drexel, then they are insecure? Get real.

btw..im just wondering....where ya goin to med skool?

 

[Pinkertinkle]

btw..im just wondering....where ya goin to med skool?

I a premed, I don't know where I'm going yet.

 

[drguy22]

I a premed, I don't know where I'm going yet.

Very Interesting. So i assume you don't understand what the people that are currently applying to medical school are going through, because you haven't experienced it? Did you take the MCAT yet? If so, do you mind if i ask what you got on it?

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Very Interesting. So i assume you don't understand what the people that are currently applying to medical school are going through, because you haven't experienced it? Did you take the MCAT yet? If so, do you mind if i ask what you got on it?

I don't feel comfortable sharing my MCAT. I am applying and interviewing this cycle like many of us here, so I do know what the process is like.

 

[The Good Guy]

So if someone thinks Harvard is a better school than Drexel, then they are insecure? Get real.

No way to avoid the truth...but it still hurts

 

[drguy22]

I don't feel comfortable sharing my MCAT. I am applying and interviewing this cycle like many of us here, so I do know what the process is like.

O, im sorry, i thought u werent applying this time around. Would you feel comfortable in telling if you were accepted anywhere yet? Or where you have applied? I havent seen your name on the list.

 

[The Good Guy]

O, im sorry, i thought u werent applying this time around. Would you feel comfortable in telling if you were accepted anywhere yet? Or where you have applied? I havent seen your name on the list.

Why are you being so darn nosy???

 

[Pinkertinkle]

O, im sorry, i thought u werent applying this time around. Would you feel comfortable in telling if you were accepted anywhere yet? Or where you have applied? I havent seen your name on the list.

My name's on the list, look harder.

 

[drguy22]

Why are you being so darn nosy???

im just curious, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Why are you being so darn nosy???

Yeah, what's the deal

 

[drguy22]

My name's on the list, look harder.

yup...sorry i missed it. I just saw it.

 

[The Good Guy]

im just curious, nothing wrong with that.

No, you keep insisting on knowing where Pinkertinkle is going. You asked like three or four times.

That bugs. No personal offense to you, though.

 

[drguy22]

No, you keep insisting on knowing where Pinkertinkle is going. You asked like three or four times.

That bugs. No personal offense to you, though.

no this is the first time i asked where Pinkerinkle is going. I have asked howerver, where constructor is going. And that questions still remains to be answered. Please check the forums again, this is the first time.


I keep asking constructor where he is going because hes a very odd person that ENJOYS putting people down. For one thing he claims he rejects Brown medical school to do what? End up in a community college. Im sorry im just not buying it!

 

[The Good Guy]

no this is the first time i asked where Pinkerinkle is going. I have asked howerver, where constructor is going. And that questions still remains to be answered. Please check the forums again, this is the first time.


I keep asking constructor where he is going because hes a very odd person that ENJOYS putting people down. For one thing he claims he rejects Brown medical school to do what? End up in a community college. Im sorry im just not buying it!

Whoa, man. I didn't mean to offend you.

Sorry if I did.

 

[drguy22]

Whoa, man. I didn't mean to offend you.

Sorry if I did.

no you didnt offend me at all.

 

[The Good Guy]

To the original poster: I think that some people will be PC about this issue, but a simple fact remains. Some medical schools are better than others, and in many ways (research, clinical care, facilities, hospitals, teaching).

People shouldn't kid themselves and say that all medical schools are "equally as good," because this statement is a load of goose turds.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

no this is the first time i asked where Pinkerinkle is going. I have asked howerver, where constructor is going. And that questions still remains to be answered. Please check the forums again, this is the first time.


I keep asking constructor where he is going because hes a very odd person that ENJOYS putting people down. For one thing he claims he rejects Brown medical school to do what? End up in a community college. Im sorry im just not buying it!

Does it really matter where constructor goes? If he goes to Harvard, would that validate his opinions any more than if he went to community college?

 

[drguy22]

Does it really matter where constructor goes? If he goes to Harvard, would that validate his opinions any more than if he went to community college?

im sorry i didnt mean to offend your troll friend. But, dont you think its kinda wierd? Give up brown medical school and go to a community college?

 

[The Good Guy]

im sorry i didnt mean to offend your troll friend. But, dont you think its kinda wierd? Give up brown medical school and go to a community college?

I know that I would.

Brown is wayyyy to liberal of a place for me. I ain't a big fan of hippies and true-hugging liberals.

Maybe constructor had extenuating personal circumstances...or maybe he's a troll

 

[drguy22]

I know that I would.

Brown is wayyyy to liberal of a place for me. I ain't a big fan of hippies and true-hugging liberals.

Maybe constructor had extenuating personal circumstances...or maybe he's a troll

read his other posts. and i can safley leaving the judging up to you.

 

[soprano]

im sorry i didnt mean to offend your troll friend. But, dont you think its kinda wierd? Give up brown medical school and go to a community college?

It's not your place to judge someone else's decision as "weird". You don't know the individual or his or her specific situation. Perhaps finances were a factor? Family illness? Marriage?

It seems to me that you are demanding an explanation in order to embarrass this particular person, or perhaps assert your supposed superiority over him or her in terms of the admissions process. These are not behaviors that I would consider appropriate or desirable in a future physician. Compassion and respect are two traits that would serve you well in the future.

 

[The Good Guy]

premeds are so stupid

Are you pre-med?

If so, then you're stupid, too

 

[automaton]

Are you pre-med?

thems fightin words

i am a medical student at an elite institution of medical education

 

[The Good Guy]

thems fightin words

i am a medical student at an elite institution of medical education

Then you were pre-med (and, hence, stupid) at one point

 

[automaton]

Then you were pre-med (and, hence, stupid) at one point

i deny that i ever called myself premed because i think anyone who considers themselves pre-anything are losers trying to get credit for something they haven't accomplished.

sincerely,
automaton,
pre-neurosurgery @ mass general, pre-fellowship in stereotactic radiosurgery @ stanford
pre-nobel prize in medicine, circa 2021.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

i deny that i ever called myself premed because i think anyone who considers themselves pre-anything are losers trying to get credit for something they haven't accomplished.

Well, aren't you special.