All threads of mine have been deleted. This is the only one I intend on having. I just want to know which med schools are least competitive and what the average GPA and MCAT scores are for those schools. Thanks!
Med School Stats
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If anyone mentions Howard or Meharry to you, they are misconstrued. They have lower admissions scores but tons of people apply to the school. So in one way it is noncompetitive but when you are applying against 3-4,000 other people with a 3.1 things get kinda tough.
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Go to the library and find an MSAR (Medical School Admissions Requirements). You can look up each medical school in the U.S. and see avg GPAs and MCATs as well as the number of applicants in and out of state that were interviewed/accepted...and lots of other useful info.
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You can definitely apply for the fall even if you are taking it in August. There's just that delay of waiting for your scores to be released and sent to schools. It's a better timeframe to take it in April of course, but you do what you gotta do. And plenty of people take the MCAT twice... I did myself, except I did August and then April.
OK..so my thoughts..saying that my 3.1 GPA will not get me into med school which ive been told wont, whats the best thing I can do for myself after I graduate from UCSC with my bachelors in MCD Bio. I dont want to waste any time and further continue my education. Should I go for a masters/phD? PhD/MD Program? I'd still like to get my MD as soon as possible. Thanks
Ok well 21 was my practice mcat score with no studying or preparation...im taking a prep course which should boost my score heavely. I'm sure i can do well on the mcats. I have all the material...and GPA im predicting will stay the same...i guess we'll see...graduate school is my back up so i can raise the GPA and i can have a masters as well.
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masters/post bacc work to raise the GPA, retake the mcat if you got a 21. you might have to work a couple more years, but if you really want that M.D. it'll be worth it.
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Why did you take the MCAT without any prep?
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people with your gpa can get into med school. whoever told you it was impossible is a dumba$$.
people with your practice mcat score most likely do not. but as you have said you have the confidence to do well. excellent.
like the others have said. the gpa isnt a big a deal as your mcat.
if you do well on the mcat then you can be a relatively competitive applicant.
go get an msar to find out the information you asked for. you can also check at how good they are at taking out of state applicants if that situation applies to you.
you can also go to your school and ask for a list or something to see where premeds from your school went to med school. some med schools like to take premeds from specific schools.
and yeah. i slept with my gel in. that is all.
people with your practice mcat score most likely do not. but as you have said you have the confidence to do well. excellent.
like the others have said. the gpa isnt a big a deal as your mcat.
if you do well on the mcat then you can be a relatively competitive applicant.
go get an msar to find out the information you asked for. you can also check at how good they are at taking out of state applicants if that situation applies to you.
you can also go to your school and ask for a list or something to see where premeds from your school went to med school. some med schools like to take premeds from specific schools.
and yeah. i slept with my gel in. that is all.
Thanks...good to know there still is hope for me. I plan on working my "arce" off for the mcat in apr and apply in june. If i feel i didnt do too well, ill take it again in aug...however if i still dont get into any school...whats the best thing for me to do without taking a break from school, but still going after an MD?
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Just curious, why are you so set against taking a break/year off from school?
Ok, well i my parents forbid me to go to med school in the caribbeans or anywhere outside the US. Secondly there are few DO's compared to MD's, therefore reducing the chances of residency and i figure I'm young so i want to make the best of the time i have now and reach the highest level of education I can...I dont feel like getting a DO would be the answer. the truth is getting an MD as opposed to a DO just looks better. If its gonna take longer , then so be it.
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I would not can MD a high level of eduction that DO bud. And as far as reducing the chances of resideny..it depends on what you want. If you want to get into ortho or something, there are DO residencies for that and you can also apply to MD ones as well. If you want to go to Mass general well you should do MD, regardless up what the PC nazis around here tell you. But thats only if you want to go to a specific place. If you want any place but a hard specialty, DO may be your best bet.
The thing is I have more options in different fields if i get my MD as opposed to a DO. I dont have anythign against a DO but i feel i have a wider selection if i go in an MD chosen field. So, im wondering are there certain programs that can guarantee me some acceptance into medical school after my undergrad if i were to take a certain amount of extra courses or a masters?
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With your low GPA, you're not really in a position to be choosy. I had a 2.9 undergrad and a 38T MCAT and only got into ONE of the schools I applied to. I probably wouldn't even have gotten in there, but I had a lot of personal connections with that school. I was a pretty naive applicant. I only applied to MD schools. I think I was VERY lucky to get in anywhere. Were I to do it again, I would apply to both MD and DO schools. Unless you're an extremely competitive applicant whose heart is dead set on attending an allopathic school, I think it's a wise strategy. If your goal is to be a doctor, don't limit your options.
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There are no such programs that will "guarantee" you admissions to a medical school, to the best of my knowledge. There are however programs that are somewhat designed for people who are pursuing a medical degree...the Special Masters Program at Georgetown comes to mind, as well as one in Boston if I'm not mistaken? I'm no expert on this, however, I have read a little about Georgetown's program...You would apply with your GPA and the results of an MCAT...it's a one year program and you take classes side by side with first years. It's no guarantee, but the bulk of the people in the program do gain admission to a med school; it's an attractive feature if you spent a year taking actual first year medical school classes and did well in them.
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what options? You have to define what you mean. If you are talking about the sheer number of residencies you are eligible for DOs have MANY more options since they can apply to DO and MD residencies. MDs cannot apply to DO residencies. You must be clear about your goals. But from what i can tell elitism is the only motivation i can tell. you KNOW you dont want carib or DO yet dont understand why in any definite terms. They are just icky...
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It sounds like you're kind of set against your best options here. Right now, you are not a great candidate. Your GPA and your practice MCAT score are low. I'm not saying that you can't get in -- you can, but you're either going to have to consider some of the options that you've rejected or find a way to really improve your application.
DO schools are not for everyone. I would not recommend them to really competitive (personality-wise, not qualification-wise) students or to people who are positive that they want to do neurosurgery. However, to dismiss them as a lower form of MD is silly. Also, keep in mind that going to a good DO school is much more impressive than going to a bottom-of-the-barrel MD school.
You're a little low on options, so you need to do some prioritization. Is getting into MD school the most important thing to you? If so, consider off-shores (and whatever, you're going to have to cut the cord at some point anyway) or accept that you might need to take a year or two off to do a post bacc.
Is becoming a doctor really the most important thing? Then open up to the possibility of DO.
I'm really not trying to be harsh here, but you need to evaluate your prospects realistically and figure out what you need to do to make this work.
Good luck!
DO schools are not for everyone. I would not recommend them to really competitive (personality-wise, not qualification-wise) students or to people who are positive that they want to do neurosurgery. However, to dismiss them as a lower form of MD is silly. Also, keep in mind that going to a good DO school is much more impressive than going to a bottom-of-the-barrel MD school.
You're a little low on options, so you need to do some prioritization. Is getting into MD school the most important thing to you? If so, consider off-shores (and whatever, you're going to have to cut the cord at some point anyway) or accept that you might need to take a year or two off to do a post bacc.
Is becoming a doctor really the most important thing? Then open up to the possibility of DO.
I'm really not trying to be harsh here, but you need to evaluate your prospects realistically and figure out what you need to do to make this work.
Good luck!
Not to be mean dude, but beggars cant be choosers. With your GPA and MCAT, you're not in a position to say you aren't willing to do this or that. I think you need to keep your options open, i.e. DO, or Foreign. That said, I had a 3.1 Ugrad, and I'm having great success. But I did do really well on my MCAT and got a masters. I applied to DO schools initially as well.
I think you're putting the cart before the horse. Make yourself competitive for getting in to medical school before saying you want this and that option after you finish medical school. And besides, you're going to be the doctor, not your parents, so you need to do what you need to do. If you really want to be a PHYSICIAN, you wont care if its MD, DO, or FMG.
p.s. I dont know where you get this idea of MD's having a "wider" selection of specialties. DO's can apply to MD residencies, but MDs cannot apply to DO ones, so id say the fact of the matter is quite contrary to what you claim. DOs have more options, at least on paper.
p.p.s. there ARE programs that can HELP get you into medical school at that campus if you do very well. I believe the Finch AP program admits to med school everyone with a 3.0 in the program. However, you still have to be competitive enough to get IN those programs, and you currently aren't.
I think you're putting the cart before the horse. Make yourself competitive for getting in to medical school before saying you want this and that option after you finish medical school. And besides, you're going to be the doctor, not your parents, so you need to do what you need to do. If you really want to be a PHYSICIAN, you wont care if its MD, DO, or FMG.
p.s. I dont know where you get this idea of MD's having a "wider" selection of specialties. DO's can apply to MD residencies, but MDs cannot apply to DO ones, so id say the fact of the matter is quite contrary to what you claim. DOs have more options, at least on paper.
p.p.s. there ARE programs that can HELP get you into medical school at that campus if you do very well. I believe the Finch AP program admits to med school everyone with a 3.0 in the program. However, you still have to be competitive enough to get IN those programs, and you currently aren't.
im not trying to be too picky cuz i know i dont have many options...but i do want the MD. It may take a little longer for me to get it, but I want it. My parents are MD's and are constantly telling me how if im gonna work my "arce" off for 4 years, why not get the MD over the DO. To be frank, it does look better in a prestigious kind of way. Sorry if that sounds snotty, but thats the way it is and thats the way society sees it. The way i see it, yes im planning on working very hard once i get into professional school, why not go for the BEST (by best , i do mean MD)...so i want to consider the special masters program in Georgetown or Boston if existant. I rather get a msters, followed with an MD then to go to a DO school. Sorry thats how I feel whether my parents have brainwashed me to think that way. It doesnt hurt to apply to med schools even if i wont be getting accepted, who knows maybe with my letters of recs from prof/labs along with my EC activities, itll boost me up a little. Most likely it wont, but it doesnt hurt to apply. I do want to be a doctor and it does make a difference what kind i am..sorry to disappoint u!
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I would have to say that this statement is exactly what it boils down to. I find it pathetic when people apply to US MD schools year after year and get rejected, while they could have easily applied to DO and carribean schools as well.
They always say, "...I really want to be a doctor..." and yet they close down their options dramatically by only applying US MD.
NONSENSE. They're full of crap and deserve the fate that has befallen them because they're too self righteous and in it for the prestige.
I hope you don't turn out to be one of these people sogand.
I so agree with this statement. Baffles me too that people are really stubborn on getting an US MD. Not only do they waste time and money reapplying, that's years of lost salary they could have earned by being a doctor earlier. Sure, MD is the traditional way to go, but still. People need evaluate themselves and look at more options.
Getting a masters a la georgetown SMP or BU physioloy in no way guarantees you'll get into an allopathic school. I don't understand where you get the idea that thats enough to make up for your stats. Plenty of georgetown SMP students, myself included, applied to DO schools b/c we were fully aware that the masters wasn't going to erase our poor past completely. In fact, a small percetage IN the program never get into med school at all (i think 15% historically). Also, you have to get IN the program to begin with too, and the avg gpa is 3.3 and MCAT is a 29. You'd probaby have to work quite hard just to get into the masters program to begin with.
I think that getting an MD is something like a reward for effort. If you're willing to put in the time and effort, you can probably eventually get into an M.D. program, but that might be 5..6..10 years from now. It took me 4 years to get into med school with your gpa, but with a good MCAT. I can only imagine how long it woudlve taken me if i had a mediocre MCAT. Seeing it that way you might want get into an alternative physician pathway much faster. Take your pick.
I think that getting an MD is something like a reward for effort. If you're willing to put in the time and effort, you can probably eventually get into an M.D. program, but that might be 5..6..10 years from now. It took me 4 years to get into med school with your gpa, but with a good MCAT. I can only imagine how long it woudlve taken me if i had a mediocre MCAT. Seeing it that way you might want get into an alternative physician pathway much faster. Take your pick.
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Friend, I know people who have repeatedly taken the prep courses (kaplan 3 times) and consistently scored 24. Putting blind faith in these services is foolhardy. It's not about material, courses or even your practice tests. It's about how well you understand what you read. The MCAT is a big fat reading comprehension test, even the bio and phys section. Save yourself some money, study on your own. Find a course to improve your reading comprehension, and take the AMCAS online tests ($80) to assess where you are. They are much better predictors than kaplans diagnostic (which were 6 points lower than my real score). Good luck.
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what's the rush? i too was overly concerned about "being on time" when i realized, f**k, i'm going to be a student for the rest of my life, for being a doctor means consistently updating yourself on current research and technology, depending on what field you go into. as a senior in college, oy! i'm so burnt out on being a student....every summer since jr high, i took summer school, every winter or spring break i had studied ahead. i worry about school, research, a part time job, volunteering, and leading a pre-med club on campus....and quite frankly, i'm burnt. and now, for once, i just want to move out from my parents house, work on my own, have a semi-normal life, so that i can worry about another subset of stressors like rent, roommates, and a paying job. letting my parents pay for everything is nice and all, but honestly, we gotta learn how to budget our own money like adults.
i too have parents "rooting" me on, but in the wrong ways. don't let them make you see otherwise, that you HAVE to do MD and that you HAVE to get it soon. you'll be working for the REST OF YOUR LIFE...take some time if you need it, not if you want it. and if you're the overachiever like all of us, you'll be more than happy to get back to school after a year.
....they're doctors too? yeah, but from a different time....it's different for us now.
master's at georgetown? think about it.....if they're gonna "guarantee" that you'll get in MD with a completion of a B, don't you think it's gonna be really rigorous and difficult? the courses are at the med school, with the med students, if i am not mistaken.....it'll be just as difficult.
you seem like in such a rush, it'll be a shame that you don't live life now when you can. i work with a doc, and he has a lavish life of travelling and going out all the time. i figure hey i can live my life AFTER i get my degree, but come to think of it, he has that life b/c he cheats on his wife. maybe the year off will let you have new perspective on life as a med student....
good luck, and don't close the door on DO. a family friend of mine is doing it, and it's perfect for her lifestyle, for she has a husband and two children to care for as well.
as far as mcats go, study hard on your own, focus on how the test operates, and not just learning the material. most of everyone gets the material in the end anyways...a good 3-4 months should be enough. otherwise, hardcore studying for more than that is just too much for your brain to consolidate.
i too have parents "rooting" me on, but in the wrong ways. don't let them make you see otherwise, that you HAVE to do MD and that you HAVE to get it soon. you'll be working for the REST OF YOUR LIFE...take some time if you need it, not if you want it. and if you're the overachiever like all of us, you'll be more than happy to get back to school after a year.
....they're doctors too? yeah, but from a different time....it's different for us now.
master's at georgetown? think about it.....if they're gonna "guarantee" that you'll get in MD with a completion of a B, don't you think it's gonna be really rigorous and difficult? the courses are at the med school, with the med students, if i am not mistaken.....it'll be just as difficult.
you seem like in such a rush, it'll be a shame that you don't live life now when you can. i work with a doc, and he has a lavish life of travelling and going out all the time. i figure hey i can live my life AFTER i get my degree, but come to think of it, he has that life b/c he cheats on his wife. maybe the year off will let you have new perspective on life as a med student....
good luck, and don't close the door on DO. a family friend of mine is doing it, and it's perfect for her lifestyle, for she has a husband and two children to care for as well.
as far as mcats go, study hard on your own, focus on how the test operates, and not just learning the material. most of everyone gets the material in the end anyways...a good 3-4 months should be enough. otherwise, hardcore studying for more than that is just too much for your brain to consolidate.
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if you plan on working in a hospital, the patient is not gonna care if you're an MD or DO. all he/she cares about if you do a good job treating them as human beings. as a patient yourself, do YOU go into their office to check if they are DO or MD? and i'm sure that if you've volunteered at a hospital, you're not even aware that you're walking amongst some DOs side by side to MDs. sorry to sound so mean, but this discussion got me going.....
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DOs are great dr's! like someone said, you cant tell the diff btw an md and a do at the hosp. i know an ER attending...he is a DO, and hes better than all the md's. like some others said, in fact there are more opportunities for residency....you can apply to md and do programs.
but the truth is, no matter what people say, DOs are looked down upon by patients, yes they do care, probably dont even know what a DO is, and by MDs (ex: an md tried to hide that one of the fellows was a do by not writing do on a research application and just wrote dr instead. i was disgusted). yes, people in this society are ignorant, sorry to say!!
please dont flame me. im just sharing personal experiences. i would love to hear more about this topic and other people's experiences.
but the truth is, no matter what people say, DOs are looked down upon by patients, yes they do care, probably dont even know what a DO is, and by MDs (ex: an md tried to hide that one of the fellows was a do by not writing do on a research application and just wrote dr instead. i was disgusted). yes, people in this society are ignorant, sorry to say!!
please dont flame me. im just sharing personal experiences. i would love to hear more about this topic and other people's experiences.
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I do not believe that patients look down on DOs. They see a guy with a stethoscope come in and say he's a doctor, and if he treats them well, then he automatically gets respect. Respect is earned and doesn't come just because you have an MD.
I do agree that some patients will not know what a DO is especially in parts such as CA. I also think the discrimination is different in certain parts of the country. Also, there are still MDs who look down on DOs, just like there are MDs who look down on FMGs and specialists who look down on family doctors.
There will always be someone looking down on you. You shouldn't be a doctor because you want everyone to respect you and have the prestige. With that said, for premeds who go into medicine for the right reasons, it shouldn't matter if they go DO or MD. Of course, if you want to go into research or teach than MD is better. Other than that, I see no difference.
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what's a FMG?
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Foregn Medical Graduate.
sorry, i know many of u have issues about this...i dont want the DO or the FMG. If i dont get into med school then ill just stay in school longer until i finally get my MD. At this point Im gonna do whatever it takes. I want the MD and Im not gonna work my arce off for a DO that means **** to EVERYONE in LA which is where im from and and FMG which i had no clue what it was...people do look down on it compared to MD and yes i do look on doctors tags to see the MD. i worked at ucla for summers in a row and it was always something id look at. no matter what u want to say and thats the way it is...
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Go get a masters, during which you will work very damn hard and boost your GPA. Go nail the MCAT around 32 or so, and in the meanwhile volunteer at a hospital every week. Then you're set.
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If you're gonna get an MD, do it for the right reasons...not because of what others think of you. Man, you can't have that junior high school mentality of a popularity contest in a profession where lives are at stake every day. You want an MD? Hey, it's YOUR life...regardless of your parents or your surroundings, embrace the allopathic philosophy as your life's passion and go for it...but do it based on substance, please.
I tell you one thing, when I go to a doctor, I care a hell of a lot more about my doctor's motives and genuine compassion for me than about the two letters after his/her name. I don't mean to sound rude, but in your posts it's almost coming off like you care a lot more about the trappings that go along with being an MD, and not that much about medicine.
Your career will last several decades in all likelihood, and will be one of the most important staples in your life. Go into whatever path you choose because you love it...and make sure the choice is all your own.
I tell you one thing, when I go to a doctor, I care a hell of a lot more about my doctor's motives and genuine compassion for me than about the two letters after his/her name. I don't mean to sound rude, but in your posts it's almost coming off like you care a lot more about the trappings that go along with being an MD, and not that much about medicine.
Your career will last several decades in all likelihood, and will be one of the most important staples in your life. Go into whatever path you choose because you love it...and make sure the choice is all your own.
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I dont see why ur getting pissed off. First u said that u would absolutely not take an extra year, and now u act like it was ur idea all along to take an extra year and raise ur GPA when about 1000 people to u to do this on like 3 different threads.
Face it ur ****ed.
ummm....i never said it was my idea. I said i didnt want a DO. Either way...i realized what the best thing for me to do is and thats to not take a year off (which is WHAT I SAID) but to get a masters and continue forth with medschool. umm no im not ****i know way too many people that are in charge of med school admissions and im not concerned that eventually with an extra year or 2 ill get in...
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Suuuurrreee u do, u keep telling urself that. Everyone knows one or two people that are in some way connected to admissions. U certainly seem to be sweating a lot for someone who has some many connections.
wow use your head...just because i know people doesnt guarantee me admission...my parents are the chief physicians at ucla. i believe i have more connections than u think. either way, it still doesnt guarantee me..so sorry ure not as priveledged as me, u just seem like a negative person with no optimistic views what so ever. keep your opinions to yourself.
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