gravitywave

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i don't get it. the guy paid his debt to society. why does he deserve further punishment and who are you to second-guess her motives?
 
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KeyzerSoze

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i don't get it. the guy paid his debt to society. why does he deserve further punishment and who are you to second-guess her motives?
1) Not sure how 12 years in jail pays his debt to society for 1st degree murder.

2) Anyone who marries a guy who is in jail for killing his girlfriend is seriously lacking in judgment.
 

gravitywave

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1) Not sure how 12 years in jail pays his debt to society for 1st degree murder.

2) Anyone who marries a guy who is in jail for killing his girlfriend is seriously lacking in judgment.
1) you have an n=1 opinion. yay! he's being released, ergo he has paid his debt. if you don't like it, go to Illinois and work to change the law. but don't take it out on him.

2) if she believes in incarceration as rehabilitation, then i don't see what the lapse in judgment is. again, thanks for your opinion.
 

thepoopologist

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1) you have an n=1 opinion. yay! he's being released, ergo he has paid his debt. if you don't like it, go to Illinois and work to change the law. but don't take it out on him.

2) if she believes in incarceration as rehabilitation, then i don't see what the lapse in judgment is. again, thanks for your opinion.

I understand your logic, but most women that I've met or known in my lifetime have had none with regards to men.

And thank you for your n=1 opinion as well.
 

thepoopologist

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I think it's ridiculous that he was paroled. People should get life in prison for intentionally killing another human being. If I were a parent of the girl he killed I'm fairly certain I would drop everything I was doing, fly to Hawaii, and cut his head off.

But, good for him. Maybe he really has changed and keeping him in jail was a detriment to society. I don't know, I don't sit around all day studying prison rehabilitation.
 
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KeyzerSoze

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1) you have an n=1 opinion. yay! he's being released, ergo he has paid his debt. if you don't like it, go to Illinois and work to change the law. but don't take it out on him.

2) if she believes in incarceration as rehabilitation, then i don't see what the lapse in judgment is. again, thanks for your opinion.
1) The law has already been changed, in part because of cases like this.

2) Are you serious?
 
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KeyzerSoze

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And I don't understand the reason for posting this in Allo. This should be in the SP forum at best.
Yeah, good point. It just kind of jumped out at me that when I read the article that the crazy woman who married this guy is a med school professor. Apparently she is pretty popular with her students though.
 

Isoprop

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What does this have to do with her professionalism?
 

seelee

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It would make for some interesting, and awkward work party conversations.

"So Jim what do you do?"

"Well, I used to murder people, but for the last 15 years I have been lifting weights and having anal sex with a guy named Icepick"
 

sunset823

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just so y'all get your facts straight, she's a PhD in education who happens to be teaching at the med school, and has no medical background herself. Now let the judging continue.
 

image187

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I don't see why anyone thinks that they should get to judge this lady's criteria for choosing a partner. The guy killed a person, served a punishment for his crime the people of illinois thought was sufficient, and then got released. Nothing the lady did was illegal or unprofessional. "Professionalism" has everything to do with just following a list of rules our society puts forth for us to follow in order to be considered as acting "professionally"; nothing more. None of those rules says that health-care professionals can't date ex-convicts. Maybe it's your personal moral conviction that she shouldn't marry someone who has killed someone in the past. Maybe "professionalism" wasn't the word you meant to use, I'm not sure. Nevertheless, the title of your post suggests that what this lady is doing would, without any doubt at all, be considered wrong by some federal ethics board... when really, it's more debatable than that.

More importantly, in order to be a compassionate future physician you need to realize that not everyone shares your moral values. In the case of you treating someone who might confide in you that they served in prison for something like this (or who might confide in you that they're a professor at a med school who married someone who served time in prison for something like this), one can only hope that the quality of that patient's care doesn't suffer as a result of such strong personal opinions like this getting in the way.
 

gravitywave

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I understand your logic, but most women that I've met or known in my lifetime have had none with regards to men.

And thank you for your n=1 opinion as well.
i'm prepared to debate this with you, but i'm not going to entertain your tongue-in-cheek misogyny as a valid argument.

it's true, my opinion is my opinion and doesn't count for much. but at least my opinion minds my own business.

1) The law has already been changed, in part because of cases like this.

2) Are you serious?
the law has been changed, that's true. but he serves his punishment according to the laws at the time he committed his crime and was sentenced for it. it's called ex post facto, and it's in the Constitution.

i'm deadly serious. i'm sure she has her own reasons for thinking he's a good emotional investment, and you have no standing to tear these people down by gainsaying them.

I don't see why anyone thinks that they should get to judge this lady's criteria for choosing a partner. The guy killed a person, served a punishment for his crime the people of illinois thought was sufficient, and then got released. Nothing the lady did was illegal or unprofessional. "Professionalism" has everything to do with just following a list of rules our society puts forth for us to follow in order to be considered as acting "professionally"; nothing more. None of those rules says that health-care professionals can't date ex-convicts. Maybe it's your personal moral conviction that she shouldn't marry someone who has killed someone in the past. Maybe "professionalism" wasn't the word you meant to use, I'm not sure. Nevertheless, the title of your post suggests that what this lady is doing would, without any doubt at all, be considered wrong by some federal ethics board... when really, it's more debatable than that.

More importantly, in order to be a compassionate future physician you need to realize that not everyone shares your moral values. In the case of you treating someone who might confide in you that they served in prison for something like this (or who might confide in you that they're a professor at a med school who married someone who served time in prison for something like this), one can only hope that the quality of that patient's care doesn't suffer as a result of such strong personal opinions like this getting in the way.
nicely reasoned :highfive:

you could have done without invoking Burnett's Law there towards the end though :lame:
 

SteinUmStein

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She must be pretty confident that he's rehabilitated, since she's literally betting her life on it. She has every right to make that decision for herself.

I might see the situation differently if she had young children living with her, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
 

image187

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How do you feel about abortion?
Abortion is an unrelated issue. It is a quite common misconception that "pro-choice" is synonymous with "pro-killing"; "pro-life" with "against-killing". The fundamental disagreement between people who approve of abortion and those who don't is about whether or not a fetus at whatever point during the pregnancy the lady would want to get rid of it can be considered a "person" at that point in time (not about whether killing a person is wrong, there is almost no debate about that). Another fallacy that detracts from constructive discourse is when people confuse "person" with "human". I don't mean to lecture, I just want to clear this up before this thread becomes enormous.
 

seelee

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So...what is the issue here? That the murderer was paroled, or that some girl was dumb enough to marry him, or that the girl teaches at a medical school?

If he hadn't had been paroled, would marrying him been ok? Or if she was working at McD's instead of a medical school? Would that have been ok?

Either way, with the press this is getting, I am willing to bet that the lady won't be teaching there much longer.
 

SteinUmStein

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So...what is the issue here? That the murderer was paroled, or that some girl was dumb enough to marry him, or that the girl teaches at a medical school?

If he hadn't had been paroled, would marrying him been ok? Or if she was working at McD's instead of a medical school? Would that have been ok?

Either way, with the press this is getting, I am willing to bet that the lady won't be teaching there much longer.
How exactly are they going to justify firing someone for marrying an ex-convict? She didn't do anything illegal, and as far as we know it's not negatively affecting her work performance. I'm still not sure how this can be misconstrued as being a professionalism issue. :confused:
 

seelee

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How exactly are they going to justify firing someone for marrying an ex-convict? She didn't do anything illegal, and as far as we know it's not negatively affecting her work performance. I'm still not sure how this can be misconstrued as being a professionalism issue. :confused:
Whether her actions are unprofessional or not is irrelevant. "Unprofessional" in the administration's eyes means "anything you do that we don't much care for, but don't really have a rule against". Maybe the reason for firing her won't be "married a convict" but she will come under the radar, and as soon as they have a reason, she will be gone.

Nobody wants a crazy convict-marrying loon on their faculty. And I don't care what anyone says, you don't marry a guy in prison if you are emotionally stable.
 

SteinUmStein

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Whether her actions are unprofessional or not is irrelevant. "Unprofessional" in the administration's eyes means "anything you do that we don't much care for, but don't really have a rule against". Maybe the reason for firing her won't be "married a convict" but she will come under the radar, and as soon as they have a reason, she will be gone.

Nobody wants a crazy convict-marrying loon on their faculty. And I don't care what anyone says, you don't marry a guy in prison if you are emotionally stable.
I don't particularly approve of her decision, but it's hers to make. I just don't think it's grounds for dismissal. If they find another reason to fire her, fine, but this isn't it.
 

seelee

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I don't particularly approve of her decision, but it's hers to make. I just don't think it's grounds for dismissal. If they find another reason to fire her, fine, but this isn't it.
I don't think you get what I am saying. I am not arguing whether or not she should be dismissed, or whether or not dismissal is justified. I am just saying that given the loose application of the term "professionalism" by the powers that be, she will likely not be teaching at that medical school much longer, if for nothing else than the negative press the school will get.

All that has to happen is for some board member to label her as unprofessional, then as soon as she goofs on something (which will happen) she will be gone.
 

SteinUmStein

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I don't think you get what I am saying. I am not arguing whether or not she should be dismissed, or whether or not dismissal is justified. I am just saying that given the loose application of the term "professionalism" by the powers that be, she will likely not be teaching at that medical school much longer, if for nothing else than the negative press the school will get.

All that has to happen is for some board member to label her as unprofessional, then as soon as she goofs on something (which will happen) she will be gone.
Ah, sorry I misunderstood you. I see what you're saying, and it's unfortunate that she could lose her job for her choice of partner. Sounds a lot like discrimination to me, but I digress. If they really want to get rid of her, I'm sure they'll manage it. Of course, that could lead to more bad press in the form of an ugly lawsuit.
 

Belleza156

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Putting all debates as to whether or not it's our business to judge this woman for her choices, aside......ummm yea she's not all there mentally. Because why would you marry someone who you knew in high school who was sooooo bent up on an ex-gf (that wasn't you) that he felt the need to kill her. It's not like this professor and him had a beautiful stable longstanding relationship, he made a mistake and "accidentally" killed someone, and they had to continue their relationship while he was in jail. No the guy took a telephone wire and strangled her!!! ........and then the love reunion with this professor occurs, after he is in prison.

So, my point is the woman must have issues to have married him. However, whether or not she should be allowed to teach medical students really depends on what what she is teaching. Being that she is an assistant professor, she probably just spits out one or two lectures here and there on nutrition or something like that. I don't think she has enough influence on the student body for her presence as a professor to be an issue. Anyway, at least her mental instability is out in the open, there are lots of people in medicine who are just case crazy as her and her hubby, if not more so. They just get to keep their craziness a secret since no-one published a news report on it. You may as well dismiss any preconceived notions on what you expect from medical school professors, medical students, physicians, etc. Or you are bound to be disappointed with the medical community as a whole.
 
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Whether her actions are unprofessional or not is irrelevant. "Unprofessional" in the administration's eyes means "anything you do that we don't much care for, but don't really have a rule against". Maybe the reason for firing her won't be "married a convict" but she will come under the radar, and as soon as they have a reason, she will be gone.

Nobody wants a crazy convict-marrying loon on their faculty. And I don't care what anyone says, you don't marry a guy in prison if you are emotionally stable.
Agree. Bad press could easily be narrated as unprofessionalism. As could administrative inconvenience. That is the dark power of vagueness. Professionalism is coded propaganda for "shut up...back in line you straggly haired mongrel." With Roman spear poke for the slow footed.

It's only defense is silence and pretense.
 

Isoprop

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Um, everywhere I worked, "professionalism" was explicitly defined in very clear terms and in writing that I had to sign.
 

Belleza156

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Um, everywhere I worked, "professionalism" was explicitly defined in very clear terms and in writing that I had to sign.
Well did you ever sign a contract to be a University Professor? Because the rules of "professionalism" have different meanings in the corporate world vs. academia.
 

seelee

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Um, everywhere I worked, "professionalism" was explicitly defined in very clear terms and in writing that I had to sign.
Assuming you haven't started medical school, you are in for a rude surprise.

Professionalism is the bane of medical students and the administrator's warm blanket.