(medical school)

[mui27]

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Planning on applying next cycle and I was wondering if I will be considered a URM, I was born in Africa (my ancestors were there since the early 1800s), however I am not black neither do I know if any of my ancestors were mixed with Black or not. Is African considered a URM?

Also this is my first post so I am not sure if its under the right group. Thank you 🙂

 

[Goro]

Sub-Saharan Africans are URM (except Caucasians like the Afrikaners). Arabs and other North Africans are not URM

 

[mui27]

Sub-Saharan Africans are URM (except Caucasians like the Afrikaners). Arabs and other North Africans are not URM

Thank you!

 

[benjamin94559]

Sub-Saharan Africans are URM (except Caucasians like the Afrikaners). Arabs and other North Africans are not URM

Would people of Indian/South Asian origin from Sub-Saharan Africa also not be URM by that logic?

 

[Goro]

Would people of Indian/South Asian origin from Sub-Saharan Africa also not be URM by that logic?

Nope. Their heritage is of South Asian descent. It's not always about what country in the old world you're from, it's much more an ethnicity thing.

 

[Moko]

Listen, in 2019 you can identify however you wish.

Just say you are sub-saharan african on your application.

What are the adcoms going to do, make you take a 23-and-me to confirm?

I would also say that you are trans in your application. No way they can prove otherwise.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

That's terrible advice. Never lie on the application. People have been removed from medical school for stupid things like this.

 

[Goro]

Listen, in 2019 you can identify however you wish.

Just say you are sub-saharan african on your application.

What are the adcoms going to do, make you take a 23-and-me to confirm?

I would also say that you are trans in your application. No way they can prove otherwise.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

So you're advising people who want to enter a career that values honest and professionalism to lie? This is outright malicious.

 

[jhamaican]

So you're advising people who want to enter a career that values honest and professionalism to lie? This is outright malicious.

The very fact that medical school admissions place so much weight on something as intangible a concept as race is a joke.

You get defensive and angry because ethnicity and race cannot be measured. This alone should speak for itself as to why race should not be considered in admission criteria.

Just like the new diversity SAT score, taking ethnicity and race into admissions is blank slate to discriminate against more qualified candidates.

I would call it reverse racism, but such a concept really doesn't exist. It is racism in and of itself, plain and simple.

Fortunately times are changing. See Texas Tech: no longer to consider race in admissions: Texas Tech Medical School Will Stop Considering Race in Admissions Due to Trump Administration Pressure

As least with disadvantaged students you can ask for the income and tax returns for their parents.

No doubt you are on faculty somewhere and label anyone who speaks out as guilt of thought crime.

Anyway, I was threatened to be banned by a moderator for questioning our betters so I better stop posting.

 

[Goro]

The very fact that medical school admissions place so much weight on something as intangible a concept as race is a joke.

You get defensive and angry because ethnicity and race cannot be measured. This alone should speak for itself as to why race should not be considered in admission criteria.

Just like the new diversity SAT score, taking ethnicity and race into admissions is blank slate to discriminate against more qualified candidates.

I would call it reverse racism, but such a concept really doesn't exist. It is racism in and of itself, plain and simple.

Fortunately times are changing. See Texas Tech: no longer to consider race in admissions: Texas Tech Medical School Will Stop Considering Race in Admissions Due to Trump Administration Pressure

As least with disadvantaged students you can ask for the income and tax returns for their parents.

No doubt you are on faculty somewhere and label anyone who speaks out as guilt of thought crime.

Anyway, I was threatened to be banned by a moderator for questioning our betters so I better stop posting.

I will wager everything that that banhammer smack threat had nothing to do with race, and everything to do with advising people to lie on their applications.

And due to the duplicity of people like you, we now expect applicants who try to game the system to show service towards communities of color, the underserved, and lgbtq.

 

[jhamaican]

I will wager everything that that banhammer smack threat had nothing to do with race, and everything to do with advising people to lie on their applications.

And due to the duplicity of people like you, we now expect applicants who try to game the system to show service towards communities of color, the underserved, and lgbtq.

and you didn't before?

It is sad that it takes applicants lying on their application to force adcoms to abandon their blind preference towards race and include objective data.

Although "showing service towards communities" is still subjective as hell and a joke.

whatever it takes to meet your predefined ethnic quotas I suppose.

 

[jhamaican]

That's terrible advice. Never lie on the application. People have been removed from medical school for stupid things like this.

Please give me one example. Genuinely curious

 

[Goro]

and you didn't before?

It is sad that it takes applicants lying on their application to force adcoms to abandon their blind preference towards race and include objective data.

Although "showing service towards communities" is still subjective as hell and a joke.

whatever it takes to meet your predefined ethnic quotas I suppose.

SPF is that way->

And in answer to Moko's question:
I would also say that you are trans in your application. No way they can prove otherwise.

 

[Moko]

Please give me one example. Genuinely curious

Uhm. A student had lied on their application, they got found out in med school, and were kicked out. There isn't much more to the story. All med school applicants electronically sign their AMCAS application attesting to the accuracy of the application to the best of their knowledge. Lying is grounds for termination. I'm not sure where the confusion is.

Whenever I sign my notes, I am similarly attesting to its accuracy to the best of my knowledge. Lying in my documentation (e.g the number of minutes spent with a patient, procedures performed that actually weren't, etc) would be considered insurance fraud. My license could be put on probation, suspended, or revoked, and certainly jail time is also a possibility.

I do agree that the current application system is imperfect (not in the same ways that you're alluding to though) and could be improved; however, these are not justifications for an applicant to lie. And it certainly is not justification for others to encourage this type of dishonest behavior.

 

[mui27]

I took a vacation in Africa once. I'm a white, male, American. Am I URM?

interesting but not relevant, I was born there; my family hails from there.