Medical schools with different/flexible curriculum

[nontradpbstudent]

Can those of you who know of med schools with more customizable curriculums respond with the name(s) of the schools.

I'm a pre-med (MD PhD) student looking to do research to create more effective and holistic mental health treatment, and hopefully eventually start my own company to proliferate these treatments. I am more interested in the neuroscience research/pharmaceutical/business side, yet I am certain that I need an MD to have the depth of knowledge and sway I need to make progress.

However, as you can infer, I am not interested in seeing patients like a traditional hospital or private practice MD, and would not want to attend a med school that requires many hours of this and also requires taking courses in off-topic subjects like diseases etc. when I am interested in treating physically healthy patients. I of course know that I will have to take some requisite coursework like that, which is fine, because I am genuinely fascinated by our biology. But I do not want to attend a medical school where this is the vast majority of the coursework I have to take, and I have very little freedom to choose.

If you know of schools that allow you to have more of a say in your curriculum and/or med schools that cater more toward research/pharmaceuticals/neuroscience, please list below. Thank you!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Goro]

Not in the USA.

If you don't want to deal with sick patients, try being a chiropractor

 

[RockClimberMed]

plz let me know when you find a med school that doesn't focus on teaching diseases

 

[MedicallyEnthused]

Sounds to me like you should pursue a PhD, not an MD.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

The OP seems ill-informed about what MD training involves. I don't get why a PhD is not enough.

 

[nontradpbstudent]

Not in the USA.

If you don't want to deal with sick patients, try being a chiropractor

Sounds to me like you should pursue a PhD, not an MD.

The OP seems ill-informed about what MD training involves. I don't get why a PhD is not enough.

There seems to be some misinterpretations or misunderstandings:

Treating physical ailments, for lack of a better word, is not the kind of medicine I'm looking to practice. Finding more effective long term mental health treatments is where my interests lie.

Having only a PhD does not grant me the qualifications to treat patients in this way, both legally and ethically I would need an MD to do so. The only reason why I may pursue a PhD is to allow me to be hands on in the process of developing these treatments, however, that work on its own would of course not make me qualified to prescribe and treat patients.

Many med schools' core curriculum consists of hundreds of diseases designated as the minimum "required basic facts". Many of which are ailments I will never see or diagnose in my field of interest. So I'd love to hear of programs (if any) that don't have this kind of strict core curriculum revolving around internal medicine / cater to general practitioners over other specialties.

It may not have come across, but my intentions are purely to help people who are struggling with mental health, as I have struggled with mental health in the past I know what a heavy burden it is and how hopeless it feels. The certifications I listed that I am aiming for are only there so that I may arm myself with the tools necessary to develop these treatments and help people in the most effective way possible. It is not about accumulating badges of honor; if I could help people as effectively without an MD or PhD I would. I am pursuing these certifications because there is a lot that I can learn from these programs and they will allow me to be a stronger force in propelling the field forward.

So I am not looking to just be any kind of doctor. I have a very specific goal and am seeking guidance as to how and where I can best accomplish this.

I would really appreciate thoughtful responses. I really value your advice, as I feel very unsure as to how to proceed.

 

[Just Call Me Doc]

Bottom line is no. There is no MD (or DO) program that does not teach these "required basic facts". In addition, the national board tests that you are required to take during medical school require knowledge of these diseases as well. While I understand your intent, the title of MD implies at least a baseline knowledge of anatomy, physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology, etc... that is deemed a minimum requirement. While many specialties don't directly use a good chunk of this knowledge in their practice, everyone who graduates as an MD has to start with the same knowledge base prior to residency. Many people come into medicine with specific goals that may not deal with physical ailments or even clinical work, but all of them are required to have the same basic foundation to be called a doctor. Hope that helps a little.

 

[PeteytheFish]

The post above is absolutely correct.

MD and DO schools in the US have to meet basic accreditation requirements, which means that their curricula are overall pretty similar. You'll be required to take part in approximately two years of basic science and foundational concepts in medicine (going through each body system, some of the associated pathologies, microbiology, and pharmacology). You then have to do two years of clinical rotations: all schools have a core curriculum generally consisting of surgery, internal medicine, family medicine, psychiatry, OB/GYN, pediatrics (and sometimes neurology or emergency medicine) and then you'll have limited opportunity for elective rotations or research, depending on the school.

An MD is not like a PhD, where it is led by one's interest. An MD is a professional degree and sets a baseline for all practitioners on this level. It's really not a particularly customizable degree, and that is by design. As Just Call Me Doc mentioned above, this is underlined by the fact that you will be required to take the board exams - Step 1 and Step 2 - in order to graduate. These are extremely challenging exams which essentially cover all of basic medicine. You can't pick and choose topics and still pass these exams.

Furthermore, even beyond getting your MD, most people end up needing to go on to a residency even if they don't go into clinical practice. Frankly, based on what you are saying, it sounds like you'd need to as well. Bad news for you: even psychiatrists have to spend a year in an Internal Medicine program before they go on to Psych. This is because so much of mental health and the function of the brain is connected to the health of the body. Many pathologies inform brain function.

Honestly, if you feel strongly about the need for an MD/DO and are dead set on pursuing mental health research, you should go shadow a psychiatrist and see if that's the right path. You could consider a doctorate in clinical psychology as well. Maybe you really want to become a pharmacologist? What about a doctorate in neuroscience? Maybe an MD/PhD?

I guess the biggest question I have is what you are planning to do after you get your MD. If the plan is to not go on to residency, then you'd be wasting your time and money. MD is a generalist degree designed to lay the foundation for the specialist training you get in residency. If you want a lot of knowledge about pharmacology, neuroscience, and clinical medicine, then it sounds like you're heading for psychiatry. As I said above, even psychiatrists have to know general medicine.

What you say you're looking for does not exist in an MD/DO program. Sorry.

 

[Linguini's Hat]

Hi there. I’m new to this platform, but wanted to chime in.
[EDIT: looks like @PeteytheFish hit on most of these points already Please consider this a supplement to their remarks.]

Most (if not all) MD programs in the United States are accredited by the LCME. The accrediting body sets the curricular standards they must meet. For example, medical schools must make sure that their “… curriculum provides content of sufficient breadth and depth to prepare medical students for entry into any residency program and for the subsequent contemporary practice of medicine.” (Standard 7; Functions and Structure of a Medical School: Standards, Publications, & Notification Forms | LCME).

While there will be some variation in how schools structure their pre-clinical and clinical curricula, most are going to be similar. One should expect a solid foundation in anatomy, physiology, and pathophysiology, and a “... medical curriculum [that] includes content and clinical experiences related to each organ system” (Standard 7; Functions and Structure of a Medical School: Standards, Publications, & Notification Forms | LCME).

As far as required clerkships go, we can see that nearly 100% of all MD programs have required clerkships in: pediatrics, psychiatry, family medicine, obstetrics-gynecology, and surgery (AAMC: Clerkship Requirements by Discipline). It’s fair to expect 6-8 week clerkships in all of these disciplines accompanied by related assessment at any MD program.

I expect DO programs to be very similar, but I didn’t look into DO-specific resources in drafting this response.

For someone interested in the clinical aspects of treating mental health, it’s possible that exploring clinical or counseling psychology might be a good fit (APA: Pursuing a Career in Clinical or Counseling Psychology). Combining that with research training, this may provide the combination that you’re looking for.

 

[Med Ed]

I would really appreciate thoughtful responses. I really value your advice, as I feel very unsure as to how to proceed.

It's difficult to offer advice on this, in large part because creating "a more effective and holistic mental health treatment" is an extremely vague goal. Can you give us some idea where you're aiming? Novel psychedelics? Electrical stimulation?

 

[Goro]

There seems to be some misinterpretations or misunderstandings:

Treating physical ailments, for lack of a better word, is not the kind of medicine I'm looking to practice. Finding more effective long term mental health treatments is where my interests lie.

Having only a PhD does not grant me the qualifications to treat patients in this way, both legally and ethically I would need an MD to do so. The only reason why I may pursue a PhD is to allow me to be hands on in the process of developing these treatments, however, that work on its own would of course not make me qualified to prescribe and treat patients.

Many med schools' core curriculum consists of hundreds of diseases designated as the minimum "required basic facts". Many of which are ailments I will never see or diagnose in my field of interest. So I'd love to hear of programs (if any) that don't have this kind of strict core curriculum revolving around internal medicine / cater to general practitioners over other specialties.

It may not have come across, but my intentions are purely to help people who are struggling with mental health, as I have struggled with mental health in the past I know what a heavy burden it is and how hopeless it feels. The certifications I listed that I am aiming for are only there so that I may arm myself with the tools necessary to develop these treatments and help people in the most effective way possible. It is not about accumulating badges of honor; if I could help people as effectively without an MD or PhD I would. I am pursuing these certifications because there is a lot that I can learn from these programs and they will allow me to be a stronger force in propelling the field forward.

So I am not looking to just be any kind of doctor. I have a very specific goal and am seeking guidance as to how and where I can best accomplish this.

I would really appreciate thoughtful responses. I really value your advice, as I feel very unsure as to how to proceed.

Not in the US.

Try being a psychologist.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Treating physical ailments, for lack of a better word, is not the kind of medicine I'm looking to practice. Finding more effective long term mental health treatments is where my interests lie.

Having only a PhD does not grant me the qualifications to treat patients in this way, both legally and ethically I would need an MD to do so. The only reason why I may pursue a PhD is to allow me to be hands on in the process of developing these treatments, however, that work on its own would of course not make me qualified to prescribe and treat patients.

As noted above, a PsyD or a PhD is precisely what you are looking for. If you are focused on long-term mental health treatments, PsyD's and PhD's are part of your clinical studies healthcare team. Medical school will not accommodate you with this focus unless they have a clinical psychology program. I think you are overvaluing the important of prescribing and treating patients unless you want to go to a PharmD/pharmaceuticals program. Read SfN Pharmaceuticals Research Careers. No other medical school curriculum in the US will be as focused on mental health, treatments, and scholarship as Clinical Psychology, and believe it or not, you will work best relying on team with different capabilities, including prescribing medications. Medical school will show you that advances in healthcare come with team science and team healthcare. Jacks/Jills of all trades aren't as impactful without collaborative science.

It is often underestimated how drugs could have effects in other parts of the body. That's why becoming a physician requires knowledge of the entire body and its physiology. Being a dentist doesn't mean you exclude knowledge of other parts of the body.

 

[nontradpbstudent]

It's difficult to offer advice on this, in large part because creating "a more effective and holistic mental health treatment" is an extremely vague goal. Can you give us some idea where you're aiming? Novel psychedelics? Electrical stimulation?

You hit the nail on the head; psychedelics is precisely what I'm interested in developing. I didn't want to say, because there is still such a stigma around it for those who have not delved into and read the research.

 

[nontradpbstudent]

Couldn't reply to everyone, but thank you so much, truly. You've offered such detailed honest responses. This is definitely helping to orient my perspective to match reality.