Medical vs. Dental School

[redchesus]

I agree with you in that the vast majority (99%) of medical students do residencies, but I was just stating the licensing rules. Back in the day, the GP's would do everything, but now medicine has changed. Also some of the physicians at corporate urgent care clinics such as MedExpress and MDnow are GP's that only did a 1 year internship.

Okay??... but picking at the technicalities rather than the reality isn't helpful for the OP. No MD nowadays goes out and practices on their own after the one year of internship. If they do (and only in some states is this legal), then it's probably in addition to their residencies which still require the supervision of an attending.

Anyway, to the OP, I have never heard a single good thing about medical residency from anyone (this is continually reaffirmed by my friends who are currently in med school), and personally it was the factor that drove me to start looking into dentistry. I say you explore both and see for yourself.

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[Odontos2015]

OSU college of medicine 2010 entering class...
oGPA: 3.70, sGPA: 3.63, MCAT: 33

OSU college of dentistry 2010 entering class...
oGPA: 3.72, sGPA: 3.65, DAT: 20/20/20.5

The difference is extremely negligible...

http://medicine.osu.edu/students/admissions/Documents/classprofile.pdf
http://dent.osu.edu/admissions/statistics.php

 

[therock21]

This blog post is kinda neat, it talks about the lifetime hourly wage for Physicians, and High school teachers. It also mentions the hourly wage of Dentists. I know the question is about which one is harder but this is some kind of neat info.

http://benbrownmd.wordpress.com/

To sum it up high school teachers make about $30.47 an hour over their life time. Physicians make around $34.46/hour. Dentists make an average of $61.91/hour.

 

[LaFleur]

if you fully understood the med school curriculums, residencies, and professional lives of both MD's and DO's you would not have such an uninformed prejudice (or "dream" if you prefer) against DO's. no offense . the only people who make a stink about this are pre-heath students, not patients, residency programs, or professionals.

For the record, I can tell you for a fact that there is prejudice against DO's from "professionals" in the medical field, not just from premeds, and that it can actually make a difference, especially if one wants to look for a competitive residency or fellowship after residency.

Based on what I have seen and the experiences of everyone I have observed/talked to, if I were going to go to medical school, I would MUCH rather get an MD than a DO, even if it meant waiting a couple of years before getting into medical school.

I'm NOT saying that DO's are bad doctors or not as intellectual as MD's, but as long as I can help it, I would not put myself in a position where I could be discriminated against (since it does exist). That's just my 2 cents. Sure, I'm not a physician, but both of my parents are, and all of my family friends are. I have plenty of experiences to draw from when forming this opinion, and most of it comes from medical professionals who have been in the industry for decades.

 

[LaFleur]

My dad is an anesthesiologist (aka sit and press button, then get sued doc) and somehow finds a way to complain everyday lol!

My father is an anesthesiologist and he LOVES his job. Actually, most of his coworkers love their jobs too. Maybe they just have a great department?

 

[loveoforganic]

This blog post is kinda neat, it talks about the lifetime hourly wage for Physicians, and High school teachers. It also mentions the hourly wage of Dentists. I know the question is about which one is harder but this is some kind of neat info.

http://benbrownmd.wordpress.com/

To sum it up high school teachers make about $30.47 an hour over their life time. Physicians make around $34.46/hour. Dentists make an average of $61.91/hour.

In the comments section, there is a very good reply that gives more realistic numbers , beyond the intuitive "but wait, doctors live better than teachers!"

 

[321931]

For the record, I can tell you for a fact that there is prejudice against DO's from "professionals" in the medical field, not just from premeds, and that it can actually make a difference, especially if one wants to look for a competitive residency or fellowship after residency.

Based on what I have seen and the experiences of everyone I have observed/talked to, if I were going to go to medical school, I would MUCH rather get an MD than a DO, even if it meant waiting a couple of years before getting into medical school.

I'm NOT saying that DO's are bad doctors or not as intellectual as MD's, but as long as I can help it, I would not put myself in a position where I could be discriminated against (since it does exist). That's just my 2 cents. Sure, I'm not a physician, but both of my parents are, and all of my family friends are. I have plenty of experiences to draw from when forming this opinion, and most of it comes from medical professionals who have been in the industry for decades.

/agree with the above.

In my eyes, DOs are just as qualified as MDs; however, in life, everyone wants to have some pecking order. It's just natural to compare and size up people around you. So and so is a Doc, so and so went to this school or that school, so and so has this type of car, so and so went to this amazing residency etc etc.

When you are in a heavy academic discipline, one tends to measure brains. It just so happens that DOs have lower requirements, and are seen as lower on the pecking order. When in reality, they can be just as good, if not better, then all the MDs practicing there.

In a simplistic/idealistic world, we can all sit here and say DO=MD, but people compare and contrast which tends to relegate MD>DO. (Just look at all the thread fighting about "prestigious dental institutions" which really DON'T matter). To fight that stigma would be incredibly annoying. I would also wait for an MD degree over a DO degree.

 

[Toothenstien]

While I agree with most of this post, but I've come to learn that oral surgery, especially the MD one, is not for everyone..... only the elites of dental graduates make it into there.

Not true; I made matched into my first choice of OMFS residencies and I'm not a stellar student (high board score though). Also, I have several friends who were in the 50th % in their classes and scored in the 50th % on their boards and matched into md residencies after a one year internship in OMFS. If you love OMFS, then you can get there.

 

[LaFleur]

Not true; I made matched into my first choice of OMFS residencies and I'm not a stellar student (high board score though). Also, I have several friends who were in the 50th % in their classes and scored in the 50th % on their boards and matched into md residencies after a one year internship in OMFS. If you love OMFS, then you can get there.

This is actually really encouraging for me, as I heard that they take your undergraduate record into account for OMFS, and mine is really, really bad. Can you tell me how much of a role your undergraduate record plays in OMFS residency matching?

 

[LaFleur]

OP, I think you need to do some soul searching to determine what career you're going to enjoy more. This isn't just something you'll be doing for a few years. It's something you're probably going to be doing for the next 40 years of your life, so you need to make sure that you're doing what you enjoy. Go shadow physicians and dentists and determine what you can see yourself doing.

Personally, I think that if you cannot make up your mind, it's better to go to medical school than dental school because of the huge range of specialties you can go into (it buys you a bit more time).

Can anyone give me some pros/cons of each?

How competitive is Med (MD) vs. Dental school?
I know the pre-req classes are the same, and I've heard conflicting accounts about the competitiveness of one vs. the other (I've heard from one source that Dent schools are just as competitive and from others that it is easier)

What about the lifestyle differences, salary differences?

Is it easy to get as easy to get a job for a dentist as is it is for a doctor?

BTW, I'm posting this in both Pre-dent & Pre-med threads, unless mods have a problem with this, so if anyone wants to see the general consensus, they should check both threads.

 

[DrReo]

How can you make any conclusion about my motivation for being a dentist or a doctor?

My dream is to work as a health professional and to help people... As of right now, I would prefer the MD lifestyle because it seems more exciting, but I also know that my understanding of what I want to do in life is slightly naive. In reality, I strongly believe that I would manage to be happy with either profession because I would be helping people and working as a health professional, also I am someone who tries to remain positive & optimistic so I imagine being equally happy with either. However, one of my goals in life is to go to an ivy league or a top graduate school. If it is easier to go to graduate school through the Dent path, than I may consider switching fields because it would increase my chances of becoming a health professional.

There are no "top schools" in dentistry. It's more about what you do after. That being said, you may be better off satisfying your ego and attempting to get into a top medical school.

It seems like your goal is to go to the best institution and everything aside is trivial. In dentistry, no one cares where you graduated from. Can you fix their problem and are you a genuine people person is what counts, young neophyte.

 

[ChubbyBaby]

OSU college of medicine 2010 entering class...
oGPA: 3.70, sGPA: 3.63, MCAT: 33

OSU college of dentistry 2010 entering class...
oGPA: 3.72, sGPA: 3.65, DAT: 20/20/20.5

The difference is extremely negligible...

http://medicine.osu.edu/students/admissions/Documents/classprofile.pdf
http://dent.osu.edu/admissions/statistics.php

The MCAT and DAT are dramatically different tests. I would guess that an AA of 20 on the DAT translates to about a 27 or 26 on the MCAT. Gaining admission to medical school is much more difficult than gaining admission to dental school, generally speaking, no question.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

For the record, I can tell you for a fact that there is prejudice against DO's from "professionals" in the medical field, not just from premeds, and that it can actually make a difference, especially if one wants to look for a competitive residency or fellowship after residency.

Based on what I have seen and the experiences of everyone I have observed/talked to, if I were going to go to medical school, I would MUCH rather get an MD than a DO, even if it meant waiting a couple of years before getting into medical school.

I'm NOT saying that DO's are bad doctors or not as intellectual as MD's, but as long as I can help it, I would not put myself in a position where I could be discriminated against (since it does exist). That's just my 2 cents. Sure, I'm not a physician, but both of my parents are, and all of my family friends are. I have plenty of experiences to draw from when forming this opinion, and most of it comes from medical professionals who have been in the industry for decades.

Effectively speaking, this is a moot point. DO's pretty much don't have much trouble getting into most residencies. Of course if you're trying for ophthalmology, dermatology, etc. you'll have an extremely hard time getting into those as well. Overall if I'd prefer to be an MD as well, but if I only gotten into a DO school I'd be attending that. Waiting a year or two effectively means I'll be cutting away potential income.
On DO prejudice.. well plenty of med students and residents on SDN are pretty vocal about that not being that big anymore. Of course there are some programs which wont take DO's. But DO's have programs which only accept them as well. They have their own ROAD programs( Albeit not as much as MD, but still enough) and there are also plenty of dual accredited programs which favor DO's strongly.

 

[Odontos2015]

The MCAT and DAT are dramatically different tests. I would guess that an AA of 20 on the DAT translates to about a 27 or 26 on the MCAT. Gaining admission to medical school is much more difficult than gaining admission to dental school, generally speaking, no question.

A 26-27 MCAT correlated with the 51-63.7 percentiles in 2008, while a 33 represented the 89.0-91.9 percentiles. Most DAT scores of 20 are in 80s and 90s with respect to percentiles.

The gap between the competitiveness of DDS/DMD and MD programs is quickly closing. With the DO and Caribbean options, it is much easier to gain admission into medical school than dental school, generally speaking, no question.

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/85332/data/combined08.pdf

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

A 26-27 MCAT correlated with the 51-63.7 percentiles in 2008, while a 33 represented the 89.0-91.9 percentiles. Most DAT scores of 20 are in 80s and 90s with respect to percentiles.

The gap between the competitiveness of DDS/DMD and MD programs is quickly closing. With the DO and Caribbean options, it is much easier to gain admission into medical school than dental school, generally speaking, no question.

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/85332/data/combined08.pdf

Not to interject.. but the DAT is no MCAT. Not by far as many on this site will attest.

 

[UCLAzy]

Not to interject.. but the DAT is no MCAT. Not by far as many on this site will attest.

have you taken either? hahahahahahaha

hahaha. ^.^

 

[321931]

Not to interject.. but the DAT is no MCAT. Not by far as many on this site will attest.

Not to interject...but the DAT is similar in different terms. Most schools accept applicants around the ~90 percentile. Therefore the students taking the test is the competition. Considering the GPA of most medical entrance is 3.6 and dental entrance is 3.5, I guess we can say the MCAT is minutely more competitive by .1 gpa which is literally nothing.

If it was something like Pharm School which has a GPA of ~3.2, then I would say that the MCAT>>>>>>PCAT due to competition in applicants.

Therefore, the DAT is very similar to the MCAT. If we include DO and Carib competition, then we can definitely say DAT=MCAT. And hey, DO and Carib do become practicing docs, so meh DAT=MCAT.

Edit: We can't compare apples to oranges. That's ultimately the argument here. Both tests have different material on it, and the way the questions are asked are different. You just can't compare. What you CAN compare is the "competitiveness" of the applicant pool and the percentiles associated with acceptance.

 

[ChubbyBaby]

A 26-27 MCAT correlated with the 51-63.7 percentiles in 2008, while a 33 represented the 89.0-91.9 percentiles. Most DAT scores of 20 are in 80s and 90s with respect to percentiles.

The gap between the competitiveness of DDS/DMD and MD programs is quickly closing. With the DO and Caribbean options, it is much easier to gain admission into medical school than dental school, generally speaking, no question.

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/85332/data/combined08.pdf

You can't compare percentages, the caliber of people who take the MCAT is higher than those who take the DAT.

And as for Ohio State's medical vs. dental gpa, again, you're not comparing people who attended the same programs. The schools the medical people are coming from are much more competetive, just compare them.

Also, generally, Ohio State is one of the schools that is a little more demanding of it's applicants. Look at USC: average gpa this year is 3.4. http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=910&linkidentifier=id&itemid=910&menu_id=258 I bet it's the same for BU, NYU, Howard, Temple, and a few others. Trying finding a US MD program with a 3.4 average GPA. And forget this business of including caribbean MD's and US DO programs. Everybody knows DOs have severely limited residency options.

 

[DocJL]

You can't compare percentages, the caliber of people who take the MCAT is higher than those who take the DAT.

And as for Ohio State's medical vs. dental gpa, again, you're not comparing people who attended the same programs. The schools the medical people are coming from are much more competetive, just compare them.

Also, generally, Ohio State is one of the schools that is a little more demanding of it's applicants. Look at USC: average gpa this year is 3.4. http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=910&linkidentifier=id&itemid=910&menu_id=258 I bet it's the same for BU, NYU, Howard, Temple, and a few others. Trying finding a US MD program with a 3.4 average GPA. And forget this business of including caribbean MD's and US DO programs. Everybody knows DOs have severely limited residency options.

Negative that chubby.

It is established fact that the average SUCCESSFUL DO applicant has lower science and overall GPA than the average SUCCESSFUL DDS applicant.

and those DO's, and DO wannabees are taking the MCAT in droves.

 

[ChubbyBaby]

Negative that chubby.

It is established fact that the average SUCCESSFUL DO applicant has lower science and overall GPA than the average SUCCESSFUL DDS applicant.

and those DO's, and DO wannabees are taking the MCAT in droves.

I'm sorry, but there are very few DO wannabees. As I mentioned before, your residency options are severely limited if you have a DO. Some residency programs (anesthesia, radiology, ...) will actually tell applicants: "sorry, we're not accepting DO applicants this year." This is why their GPA is so low. If you combine DO and MD maybe i'll agree with you that medical vs. dental is comparable in terms of competetiveness. But I won't agree that MD vs. DDS/DMD is equally competetive. Also, keep in mind that there are 159 medical schools in the United States, 133 of which award MD degrees, 29 of which award DO degrees. That's only 20% DO.

 

[ChubbyBaby]

But anyways, seriously guys, who cares. If you're going into dental school because of prestige you're making a mistake. Dentists are respected health care professionals (doctors don't know jack about teeth, at all), and dentists make more than doctors over a career.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'm sorry, but there are very few DO wannabees. As I mentioned before, your residency options are severely limited if you have a DO. Some residency programs (anesthesia, radiology, ...) will actually tell applicants: "sorry, we're not accepting DO applicants this year." This is why their GPA is so low. If you combine DO and MD maybe i'll agree with you that medical vs. dental is comparable in terms of competetiveness. But I won't agree that MD vs. DDS/DMD is equally competetive. Also, keep in mind that there are 159 medical schools in the United States, 133 of which award MD degrees, 29 of which award DO degrees. That's only 20% DO.

Anesthesiology is actually very DO friendly. But point mentioned, there are some programs that will not take DO's. However DO stats are skewed because of a favoring of non-traditional applicants. Many DO's have masters degree's and other qualifications which are not commonly quantified. Thing is overall DO schools average at around 3.5/27. With the more established ones like CCOM and UNDMJ pushing 28s and NYCOM pushing a 29 last cycle. There are some outliers which skew the mean however.. WVSOM and PSCOM which have low mcat requirements. But this is because of a heavy regional favoring and having a lot of their rotations directed towards FM and rural med.
Also DO's aren't that severely limited in residency choices and over 71% of DO's do match in the ACGME system. They also are able to apply to DO only residencies AOA system. In the end this allows for many DO's to have a decent chance at ROAD specialties.

Point being.. DO schools potentially can be easier to get into if you're willing to redo some classes ( Effectively polls on SDN show only around 10%-20% retake more than 2 classes) then yes getting into a DO school could be easier. But if you don't figure that in.. then on average DO schools with the mcat are still more than likely more competitive than most dental programs. That being said there are some DO programs which are less competitive than the average DDS/DMD program.

 

[DocJL]

Point being.. DO schools potentially can be easier to get into if you're willing to redo some classes ( Effectively polls on SDN show only around 10%-20% retake more than 2 classes) then yes getting into a DO school could be easier. But if you don't figure that in.. then on average DO schools with the mcat are still more than likely more competitive than most dental programs. That being said there are some DO programs which are less competitive than the average DDS/DMD program.

sorry but averages don't lie.

especially complete undergrad averages, which generally take into account 4 years of university level schooling, so that 1/10th of a percentage point, for thousands of students, is actually VERY statistically significant.

I post again:
Current statistics back up average successful MD program applicants still have a slightly higher GPA than successful DDS/DMD program applicants.

But DDS/DMD applicants have a higher GPA/ qualifications than successful DO program applicants.

Interpret this as you like:

according to this link (from AACOMAS, the DO applicant service):

For the 2009 application cycle:

Average GPA: 3.48
Average sci-GPA: 3.35
Average non-sci: 3.58

http://www.aacom.org/resources/books...cib-p12-15.pdf

According to wiki: successful dental school applicants:

2009 had an overall GPA of 3.54 and a science GPA of 3.46 (dental)





So - average overall GPA in 2009 was 3.54 Dental vs. 3.48 DO
average science GPA 3.46 Dental vs. 3.35 DO

 

[avatarftw]

Its "opinion". Our opinions don't really matter; the statistics don't lie in regards to which professional is more difficult to get accepted to. GPA can help us in that regard as can the percent of applicants accepted.

Our opinions may matter when we are discussing the difficulty of the DAT versus the MCAT, for example.

in my opion, i think it is more competative for dental school than med school. Again this is my opionion, but my reasoning is that med schools have MD and DO schools to choose from which offers more of a range in gpa and test scores. I have had friends apply to both and have been accepted to med school and didnt even get dental school interviews.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

sorry but averages don't lie.

especially complete undergrad averages, which generally take into account 4 years of university level schooling, so that 1/10th of a percentage point, for thousands of students, is actually VERY statistically significant.

I post again:
Current statistics back up average successful MD program applicants still have a slightly higher GPA than successful DDS/DMD program applicants.

But DDS/DMD applicants have a higher GPA/ qualifications than successful DO program applicants.

Interpret this as you like:

according to this link (from AACOMAS, the DO applicant service):

For the 2009 application cycle:

Average GPA: 3.48
Average sci-GPA: 3.35
Average non-sci: 3.58

http://www.aacom.org/resources/books...cib-p12-15.pdf

According to wiki: successful dental school applicants:

2009 had an overall GPA of 3.54 and a science GPA of 3.46 (dental)





So - average overall GPA in 2009 was 3.54 Dental vs. 3.48 DO
average science GPA 3.46 Dental vs. 3.35 DO

Let's be statistical and take the median then. Since there are DO schools and dental schools as well like I mentioned which only accept from certain regions leading to a lower statistical acceptance skew. The proper measure of central tendency is a median. The Mean is a very sensitive measure of central tendency and as such is actually meaningless in this conversation. But I digress in to my statistical stream of consciousness.

All I can say is competitiveness is about many hoops needing to be jumped. Overall quantified statistics are only half of the story, like I mentioned before. DO's take many non-traditionals with masters degree's or even PhD's and their gpa isn't considered here. It is also not considered the amount of clinical hours, research hours, shadowing hours, community hours, and etc. All of which are significantly higher than found in DO* accepted students.

Anyways.. I should be sleep studying.

 

[ChubbyBaby]

According to wiki: successful dental school applicants:

2009 had an overall GPA of 3.54 and a science GPA of 3.46 (dental)

Was there a reference for that wiki stat? I mean wikipedia is pretty much garbage. I could go there right now and change that number.

 

[ChubbyBaby]

It is also not considered the amount of clinical hours, research hours, shadowing hours, community hours, and etc. All of which are significantly higher than found in dental accepted students.

Definitely wouldn't agree with you there.

If you look at medical school matriculants though, I bet the caliber of colleges attended is higher. For instance, average entry SAT score of schools attended by med students is higher than that of dental schools. Additionally, just looking at the OSU dental vs medical attended, the range of majors was broader and more difficult for the medical in my opinion than those of the dental school (hygiene ?).

 

[ChubbyBaby]

You can't compare the GPA of dental vs. medical for Ohio State. Just look at these lists. Look at the dental school list. A lot of local schools, and I've never heard of a fifth of them. You simply can't compare.

Dental: Class of 2014 Undergrad Schools
Adelphia University
Arizona State University
Bowling Green State University
Brigham Young University
Brigham Young Univ - Idaho
Case Western Reserve
Cleveland State University
Denison University
Georgetown University
Houghton College
John Carroll University
Idaho State University
Kent State University
Lipscomb University
Malone College
Marietta College
Meredith College
Miami University
Mount Union College
Ohio Northern University
Ohio University
Ohio Wesleyan University
Otterbein University
Samford University
The Ohio State University
University of Akron
University of Cincinnati
University of Dayton
University of Findlay
University of Florida
University of Georgia
University of Iowa
University of Kentucky
University of North Carolina – Chapel Hill
University of South Dakota
University of Toledo
University of Toronto
University of Virginia
University of Washington
Walsh University
Washington and Jefferson College
Weber State
West Virginia Wesleyan College
Wright State University
Xavier University
Youngstown State University

Medical: Class of 2014 Undergrad Schools
Anderson University
Arizona State UniversityBall State University
Boston College
Boston University
Bowling Green State University
Brigham Young University
California Institute of Technology
California State University
Canisius College.
Carleton College
Carnegie Mellon University
Case Western Reserve University
Cedarville University
Claremont Mckenna College
Cleveland State University
Colgate University
College of Wooster.
Columbia University
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
Denison University
Duke University
Eastern Washington University
Emory University
Georgetown University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Grove City College
Hampton University
Harvard University
Indiana Wesleyan University
Iowa State University
Kenyon College
Lipscomb University
Marist College
Miami University
Michigan State University
Missouri State University
Mount Union College
Northwestern University
Ohio State University
Ohio University
Ohio Wesleyan University
Pace University
Pennsylvania State University
Princeton University
Purdue University
Rhodes College
St. Vincent College
Southeastern Louisiana University
St. John’s College
Stanford University
Stetson University
Swarthmore College
University of Findlay
Tulane University
University of Akron
University of California, Berkeley
University of California, Irvine
University of Calif.,, Los Angeles
University of Chicago
University of Cincinnati
University of Dayton
University of Florida
University of Illinois
University of Kansas
University of Maryland
University of Michigan
University of Minnesota
University of North Carolina
University of Notre Dame
University of Pennsylvania
University of Pittsburgh
University of Richmond
University of Rochester
University of San DiegoUniversity of Southern California
University of Toledo
University of Virginia
University of Wisconsin
Vanderbilt University
Washington University
Weber State University
Xavier University

 

[DocJL]

Was there a reference for that wiki stat? I mean wikipedia is pretty much garbage. I could go there right now and change that number.

Actually that was a direct quote from a conversation I had on this forum with a DO student who was saying that "in his undergrad, the admittances to dental school were astronomically higher than the admittances to MD or DO school, and the average GPA's were much lower".

His OWN POST pretty much torpedoed his earlier statements.

In that same conversation I was able to find this from the ADA website:


However according to the American Dental Association:

In 2008 there were just over 108,000 applications for just over 4,900 1st year dental school slots in the US. The average GPA of those admitted in 2008 (the last year data is available from the ADA) was 3.54 overall, with a 3.48 science GPA.


I was unable to post a link, maybe because I got the information from the ADA member password protected part of the ADA website (which you should be able to access, since you have billed yourself as a "dentist" in your avatar, correct?)

 

[DocJL]

You can't compare the GPA of dental vs. medical for Ohio State. Just look at these lists. Look at the dental school list. A lot of local schools, and I've never heard of a fifth of them. You simply can't compare.

Dental: Class of 2014 Undergrad Schools
Adelphia University
Arizona State University
Bowling Green State University
Brigham Young University
Brigham Young Univ - Idaho
Case Western Reserve
Cleveland State University
Denison University
Georgetown University
Houghton College
John Carroll University
Idaho State University
Kent State University
Lipscomb University
Malone College
Marietta College
Meredith College
Miami University
Mount Union College
Ohio Northern University
Ohio University
Ohio Wesleyan University
Otterbein University
Samford University
The Ohio State University
University of Akron
University of Cincinnati
University of Dayton
University of Findlay
University of Florida
University of Georgia
University of Iowa
University of Kentucky
University of North Carolina – Chapel Hill
University of South Dakota
University of Toledo
University of Toronto
University of Virginia
University of Washington
Walsh University
Washington and Jefferson College
Weber State
West Virginia Wesleyan College
Wright State University
Xavier University
Youngstown State University

Medical: Class of 2014 Undergrad Schools
Anderson University
Arizona State UniversityBall State University
Boston College
Boston University
Bowling Green State University
Brigham Young University
California Institute of Technology
California State University
Canisius College.
Carleton College
Carnegie Mellon University
Case Western Reserve University
Cedarville University
Claremont Mckenna College
Cleveland State University
Colgate University
College of Wooster.
Columbia University
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
Denison University
Duke University
Eastern Washington University
Emory University
Georgetown University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Grove City College
Hampton University
Harvard University
Indiana Wesleyan University
Iowa State University
Kenyon College
Lipscomb University
Marist College
Miami University
Michigan State University
Missouri State University
Mount Union College
Northwestern University
Ohio State University
Ohio University
Ohio Wesleyan University
Pace University
Pennsylvania State University
Princeton University
Purdue University
Rhodes College
St. Vincent College
Southeastern Louisiana University
St. John’s College
Stanford University
Stetson University
Swarthmore College
University of Findlay
Tulane University
University of Akron
University of California, Berkeley
University of California, Irvine
University of Calif.,, Los Angeles
University of Chicago
University of Cincinnati
University of Dayton
University of Florida
University of Illinois
University of Kansas
University of Maryland
University of Michigan
University of Minnesota
University of North Carolina
University of Notre Dame
University of Pennsylvania
University of Pittsburgh
University of Richmond
University of Rochester
University of San DiegoUniversity of Southern California
University of Toledo
University of Virginia
University of Wisconsin
Vanderbilt University
Washington University
Weber State University
Xavier University

Interesting post, but hardly offering of any useful information. Just because YOU haven't "heard of a university" or you chose not to place them in BOLD type is supposed to mean that they are at the level of community colleges?

please.

 

[ChubbyBaby]

Actually that was a direct quote from a conversation I had on this forum with a DO student who was saying that "in his undergrad, the admittances to dental school were astronomically higher than the admittances to MD or DO school, and the average GPA's were much lower".

His OWN POST pretty much torpedoed his earlier statements.

In that same conversation I was able to find this from the ADA website:


However according to the American Dental Association:

In 2008 there were just over 108,000 applications for just over 4,900 1st year dental school slots in the US. The average GPA of those admitted in 2008 (the last year data is available from the ADA) was 3.54 overall, with a 3.48 science GPA.


I was unable to post a link, maybe because I got the information from the ADA member password protected part of the ADA website (which you should be able to access, since you have billed yourself as a "dentist" in your avatar, correct?)

I wasn't calling you a liar. But with respect to those stats, see my previous post about colleges attended. GPAs aren't equal. And yes, I graduated from dental school nearly 3 years ago. Think what you will about competetiveness, but I'd suggest you not shoot your mouth off in front of medical colleages, you might piss them off, cause you'd be wrong saying dental is just as competetive.

 

[ChubbyBaby]

Interesting post, but hardly offering of any useful information. Just because YOU haven't "heard of a university" or you chose not to place them in BOLD type is supposed to mean that they are at the level of community colleges?

please.

alrighty, goodnight kiddies.

 

[loveoforganic]

All of you suck and will never earn the response you think your academic prestige deserves in any reasonable social interactions. The end.

P.S. MD vs DDS thread nearly derails into MD vs DO thread. Epic!

 

[bing12]

All of you suck and will never earn the response you think your academic prestige deserves in any reasonable social interactions. The end.

P.S. MD vs DDS thread nearly derails into MD vs DO thread. Epic!

haha...im fine with that, considering we will atleast have the time to have social interactions.

 

[loveoforganic]

All of you referring to everyone arguing for their prestige

 

[DocJL]

I wasn't calling you a liar. But with respect to those stats, see my previous post about colleges attended. GPAs aren't equal. And yes, I graduated from dental school nearly 3 years ago. Think what you will about competetiveness, but I'd suggest you not shoot your mouth off in front of medical colleages, you might piss them off, cause you'd be wrong saying dental is just as competetive.

Gee I hadn't thought of that.....

do you mean that if I have to make an unexpected trip to the ER, they might (gasp) make me wait longer because I pissed them off???

and you're right. GPA's aren't equal. ever hear of grade inflation? it's actually running rampant in our country now.

www.gradeinflation.com

perhaps you should read the note under long term trends.

"On average, private schools now grade about 0.3 higher than public schools for the schools examined here"

well golly gee! since you seem to think private schools are totally the shiznit, perhaps you're onto something there regarding GPA's Mr. Einstein!

 

[yappy]

This thread has gone nuts... but come on... most dental schools dont have a 3.7 sci gpa average, and a 20 on the DAT doesnt equal a 31 MCAT. Dentistry is the best profession (to me) but that doesnt mean I have to say it was also the hardest or on par with the most difficult prof school to get into.

 

[ChubbyBaby]

and you're right. GPA's aren't equal. ever hear of grade inflation? it's actually running rampant in our country now.

www.gradeinflation.com

perhaps you should read the note under long term trends.

"On average, private schools now grade about 0.3 higher than public schools for the schools examined here"

well golly gee! since you seem to think private schools are totally the shiznit, perhaps you're onto something there regarding GPA's Mr. Einstein!

I can't fool you.

Well DocJL, since you have answers for everything, why is it that Ohio State's medical school has a higher proportion of private schools/Top25 USNews graduates compared to its dental school. Seriously, why would that be?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Definitely wouldn't agree with you there.

If you look at medical school matriculants though, I bet the caliber of colleges attended is higher. For instance, average entry SAT score of schools attended by med students is higher than that of dental schools. Additionally, just looking at the OSU dental vs medical attended, the range of majors was broader and more difficult for the medical in my opinion than those of the dental school (hygiene ?).

Goodness I wrote dental students for the last point and not DO students . I guess that's what happens when you have a study binge and decide to make a coherent argument.

But yes I meant DO students have higher hours and what not.

 

[DocJL]

I can't fool you.

Well DocJL, since you have answers for everything, why is it that Ohio State's medical school has a higher proportion of private schools/Top25 USNews graduates compared to its dental school. Seriously, why would that be?

Interesting view you take as a dentist. I'm going to guess one or both of your parents are physicians, which might explain your cynical view of your own profession (and for the record, I DO believe medicine is the more "noble" of the two professions) and you attended one of those "well known private undergrad universities" you believe provide such a superior education. Your grades were probably not as high as most of your dental school entering class, and you clung to the belief that this was due to "all GPA's not being equal", after all, YOU went to an expensive private university!

My what a shock it must be for you to now be confronted with evidence that you were actually a beneficiary of "grade inflation" by having gone to a private university! Thus making your GPA even lower in relation to your dental school classmates who attended lowly state universities (often unheard of by you)

 

[hopefullyadent]

i am smart...

 

[jmt1984]

But anyways, seriously guys, who cares. If you're going into dental school because of prestige you're making a mistake.

Well said.

 

[docdonny]

I'm sorry, but there are very few DO wannabees. As I mentioned before, your residency options are severely limited if you have a DO. Some residency programs (anesthesia, radiology, ...) will actually tell applicants: "sorry, we're not accepting DO applicants this year." This is why their GPA is so low. If you combine DO and MD maybe i'll agree with you that medical vs. dental is comparable in terms of competetiveness. But I won't agree that MD vs. DDS/DMD is equally competetive. Also, keep in mind that there are 159 medical schools in the United States, 133 of which award MD degrees, 29 of which award DO degrees. That's only 20% DO.

^ LOL. This guy cant be serious. Severely limited hahaha yeah please tell how these applicants are severely limited.

You know people come on these forums asking for advice. You really should do some research before spewing erroneous information about medical school residencies (considering your a dentist and have never matched into a medical school residency). Please name the programs that tell applicants they are not accept DOs.

 

[Munchy]

Interesting thread.

After reading it, Chubbybaby has some valid points: You can't compare MCAT with DAT.
For those who are boating b/c you got over 20 in the DAT, have you seen the MCAT?! The amount of stuff you have to study is far greater. I scored 23 on the DAT (top 1-2%?) but if I were to write the MCAT, I don't think I could have scored the same percentile.

But then who the f. cares? We in PRE-DENT forum.
Becoming a dentist >>>> becoming a physician.

 

[dentalWorks]

Interesting thread.

After reading it, Chubbybaby has some valid points: You can't compare MCAT with DAT.
For those who are boating b/c you got over 20 in the DAT, have you seen the MCAT?! The amount of stuff you have to study is far greater. I scored 23 on the DAT (top 1-2%?) but if I were to write the MCAT, I don't think I could have scored the same percentile.

But then who the f. cares? We in PRE-DENT forum.
Becoming a dentist >>>> becoming a physician.

Before I became pre-dent... I was pre-med and yes, I do remember my time studying for the MCATs (never took it cause.... well I switched over)

The MCAT is VERY different than the DAT, but both exams have annoying parts in them. For example:

MCAT has a very VERY VERY tough reading (verbal ~ that I ABSOLUTELY sucked in it), but on the DAT, I was pretty average, maybe a little above average in the reading.

The DAT on the other hand, has PAT, something unheard of, as matter of fact, no high school or college education can prepare you for the PAT. This is 100% self study.

The sciences are..... DAT's biology is harder than MCAT IN MY OPINION, because with the DAT, there are sometimes random information that you never prepared for. Where as in the MCAT, the passage can give you a pretty good background on the topic presented, you just need to apply your biology knowledge to the questions.......... The GC and ORGO, hmm, MCAT would be harder for sure.

MCAT physics vs DAT QR... yes I hated the QR section of the DAT, but its a cake-walk compared to MCAT's physics.

I can't say anything about MCAT writing, I never got that far

 

[glo1984]

I knew a bright student from Yale that took the MCAT, scored very well but decided to pursue a highly competitive research position. After a few years, he decided to pursue dentistry, took the DAT but scored less competitively.

Sure, there are always the extreme cases. Just saying...

 

[longhornpride]

These arguments are so stupid. You're arguing 3.6s vs 3.5s ... congrats.

When it comes down to it... I'll be 25 when I graduate as opposed to 29-30 (residency included) if I were in med school. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, I'll avg 156k, as a general dentist... as opposed to 168k, as family practitioner. This doesn't include income as an owner of a private practice which is significantly higher for both.

However, I will make more per hour while working 4 days a week. I will enjoy my 3 day weekends, get a head start on opening my own private practice, schedule my own hours, get a head start financially, etc ... while you can brag about your prestige, whine about always being on call, and complain when I retire at a much earlier age than you.

 

[jmt1984]

All of you suck and will never earn the response you think your academic prestige deserves in any reasonable social interactions. The end.

P.S. MD vs DDS thread nearly derails into MD vs DO thread. Epic!

 

[ilikepancakes]

lol my brother got the kaplan dat book (which was half the size of any one of the 5 mcat books i was studying) and spent one month studying 1001 mcat examkrackers...he came out of the test and was like mannn, have you ever heard of the hepatic portal vein?...he got a 25

 

[321931]

All of you suck and will never earn the response you think your academic prestige deserves in any reasonable social interactions. The end.

Agreed. The real winners are business owners/entrepreneurs who make 5-6 figures a day/a week, have relatively less debt, and have their own hours.

You want prestige? You want to be the "boss?!" Go be a successful business owner and laugh at mortals clawing their way through textbooks, ending up with 200k debt making a mere 6 figures (after 10+ years of studying) that entrepreneurs make in a day/week/month, and fighting amongst themselves about which specialty is superior.