Medicinal Marijuana

[foxtrot]

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I found this website when discussing medicinal marijuana on the the pain medicine forum. It is just too good not to share.

http://www.doc420.com/

 

[Surfer]

Marijuana causes horrible things in our society. Murders, robberies, violence, theft. It is not a "victimless crime." Legalizing it will have catastrophic effects. Not to mention all the waste that is caused by people who become totally non-contributing members of society by becoming pot heads.

 

[Planktonmd]

Marijuana causes horrible things in our society. Murders, robberies, violence, theft. It is not a "victimless crime." Legalizing it will have catastrophic effects. Not to mention all the waste that is caused by people who become totally non-contributing members of society by becoming pot heads.

Alcohol does the same things you mentioned and even more, so should we make it illegal??

 

[Surfer]

Alcohol does the same things you mentioned and even more, so should we make it illegal??

that's a terrible argument. "A is legal and worse than B, so make B legal too."

If you want medicinal marijuana, why isn't it regulated with perscriptions and DEA numbers just like every other controlled substance? I'll tell you why, because it has nothing to do with medicine at all.

 

[Planktonmd]

that's a terrible argument. "A is legal and worse than B, so make B legal too."

If you want medicinal marijuana, why isn't it regulated with perscriptions and DEA numbers just like every other controlled substance? I'll tell you why, because it has nothing to do with medicine at all.

You are right, it has nothing to do with medicine but alcohol has nothing to do with medicine either and you still can buy it everywhere although it is more harmful than marijuana for all the reasons you mentioned.

 

[Planktonmd]

that's a terrible argument. "A is legal and worse than B, so make B legal too."

If you want medicinal marijuana, why isn't it regulated with perscriptions and DEA numbers just like every other controlled substance? I'll tell you why, because it has nothing to do with medicine at all.

And by the way, the reason why marijuana causes all these terrible things you mentioned is because it is illegal so people have to do all these bad things to get it.

 

[moster]

What's too good not to share: the picture or the article?

Check out the prestigious journal the good doctor has been featured in.
The Los Angeles Journal for Education on Medical Marijuana

http://www.lajemm.com/

To find more like minded doctors able to help you out near you.

http://www.potlocator.com/

boycott over priced dispensaries
I am calling for a boycott of all dispensaries who sell 1/8th's for over $65. There is no need for any dispensary to have $100 1/8th's. Dispensaries are supposed to be non profit but there are dispensaries who profit from the suffering of people with medical problems. Lets stand together and say NO to high prices. If you see an 1/8th over $65 run for the door. You can find the same strain for less at another dispensary.

 

[Noyac]

Colorado has relaxed the laws on marijuana this past year and since then I have had friends ask me for a script.😱

My response was, "that's not funny and don't ask me again."

But just because I am not a pot smoker and don't believe that it's recreational uses are appealing doesn't mean that I am closed minded.

Legalize the **** and lets get on with life.

BTW, that doc420 add is a joke. Looks like a dr trying to capitalize on an area of healthcare.

 

[Noyac]

And by the way, the reason why marijuana causes all these terrible things you mentioned is because it is illegal so people have to do all these bad things to get it.

👍

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Marijuana causes horrible things in our society. Murders, robberies, violence, theft. It is not a "victimless crime." Legalizing it will have catastrophic effects. Not to mention all the waste that is caused by people who become totally non-contributing members of society by becoming pot heads.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not because personally I don't think your comment makes any sense whatsoever. Alcohol is far more damaging and it is legal.

 

[Surfer]

And by the way, the reason why marijuana causes all these terrible things you mentioned is because it is illegal so people have to do all these bad things to get it.

that's not true. it causes those things because it is a powerful drug and people will do anything to get their high. making it legal won't change a thing, it will only make it more pervasive. do you really think simply making it legal, and allowing people to buy it at smoke shops, will suddenly put all those evil drug lords out of business?? really??

again, just because alcohol is bad, and still legal, is not a reason to make drugs legal too.

 

[doctadre]

that's not true. it causes those things because it is a powerful drug and people will do anything to get their high. making it legal won't change a thing, it will only make it more pervasive. do you really think simply making it legal, and allowing people to buy it at smoke shops, will suddenly put all those evil drug lords out of business?? really??.

if you're referring to marijuana "drug lords" then yeah. i don't really see a whole lot of liquor bootleggers around anymore, do you?

i'm personally a fan of pot (although i haven't smoked in ages). however, i think that medical marijuana as it currently stands is a joke. there are just too many strains and different methods to get high that i think that it would be irresponsible as a physician to write a prescription for the herb.

for those that do prescribe marijuana, what do you guys write for? is it specific stuff like "one bowl of northern lights by bong, three times daily before meals" or is it just a letter saying "i think that getting high would help out with your glaucoma"

 

[DOme2009]

the dosage is probably user-titrated to endpoint/effect

 

[ssmallz]

do you really think simply making it legal, and allowing people to buy it at smoke shops, will suddenly put all those evil drug lords out of business?? really??

Actually thats exactly what it will do. As the marijuana becomes legal and the prices go down, it will no longer become viable for drug lords to sell pot b/c the profit margin just won't be there

 

[GoodmanBrown]

Actually thats exactly what it will do. As the marijuana becomes legal and the prices go down, it will no longer become viable for drug lords to sell pot b/c the profit margin just won't be there

What! That's crazy! Well, gents, I'm off to the speakeasy to get myself some moonshine.

 

[Bertelman]

that's not true. it causes those things because it is a powerful drug and people will do anything to get their high. making it legal won't change a thing, it will only make it more pervasive. do you really think simply making it legal, and allowing people to buy it at smoke shops, will suddenly put all those evil drug lords out of business?? really??

again, just because alcohol is bad, and still legal, is not a reason to make drugs legal too.

You clearly don't understand the effects of marijuana. One word comes to mind: avolition.

I believe the people that act violently on behalf of marijuana (all ten of them) are just violent people that happen to smoke.

 

[Planktonmd]

do you really think simply making it legal, and allowing people to buy it at smoke shops, will suddenly put all those evil drug lords out of business?? really??

I actually do!

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Would be a great source of tax revenue

 

[Noyac]

As far as medically prescribed marijuana goes there are really no other medications that have the same mechanisms of action as marijuana. Dronabinol (Marinol) is available by prescription in capsules, but has the distinct disadvantage of containing only synthetic delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) which is only one of many therapeutically beneficial cannabinoids in the natural plant.

For some users, perhaps as many as 10 per cent, cannabis leads to psychological dependence, but there is scant evidence that it carries a risk of true addiction. Unlike cigarette smokers, most users do not take the drug on a daily basis, and usually abandon it in their twenties or thirties.
Unlike for nicotine, alcohol and hard drugs, there is no clearly defined withdrawal syndrome, the hallmark of true addiction, when use is stopped.

 

[Noyac]

that's a terrible argument. "A is legal and worse than B, so make B legal too."

If you want medicinal marijuana, why isn't it regulated with perscriptions and DEA numbers just like every other controlled substance? I'll tell you why, because it has nothing to do with medicine at all.

Ron Paul, MD, Member of the US House of Representatives (R-TX), wrote the following in an Apr. 27, 2005 letter to the US Food and Drug Administration signed by 23 other members of the US House of Representatives:
"After deferring to the DEA, your release reads that, 'FDA is the sole federal agency that approves drug products as safe and effective for intended indications.' Why then has the FDA failed to respond to the 1999 Institute of Medicine (IOM) report which concluded that marijuana's active components are potentially effective in treating pain, nausea, the anorexia of AIDS wasting, and other symptoms, and should be tested rigorously in clinical trials?
It perplexes us that even though the FDA is responsible for protecting public health, the agency has failed to respond adequately to the IOM's findings seven years after the study's publication date. Additionally, this release failed to make note of the FDA's Investigational New Drug (IND) Compassionate Access Program, which allowed patients with certain medical conditions to apply with the FDA to receive federal marijuana. Currently, seven people still enlisted in this program continue to receive marijuana through the federal government.
The existence of this program is an example of how the FDA could allow for the legal use of a drug, such as medical marijuana, without going through the 'well-controlled' series of steps that other drugs have to go through if there is a compassionate need."


Lyn Nofziger, former Press Secretary to Ronald Reagan, wrote the following in the foreword to the 1999 book Marijuana RX: The Patients' Fight for Medicinal Pot, by Robert C. Randall and Alice M. O'Leary:
"Marijuana clearly has medicinal value. Thousands of seriously ill Americans have been able to determine that for themselves, albeit illegally. Like my own family, these individuals did not wish to break the law but they had no other choice. The numerous attempts to legitimately resolve the issue-via state legislation and federal administrative hearings-have too often been ignored or thwarted by misguided federal agencies. Several states conducted extensive, and expensive, research programs which demonstrated marijuana's medical utility-particularly in the treatment of chemotherapy side-effects. Francis L. Young, the chief administrative law judge of the United States Drug Enforcement Administration, ruled marijuana has legitimate medical applications and should be available to doctors."

 

[Noyac]

Cannabinoids are now known to have the capacity for neuromodulation, via direct, receptor-based mechanisms, at numerous levels within the nervous system. These provide therapeutic properties that may be applicable to the treatment of neurological disorders, including anti-oxidative, neuroprotective effects, analgesia, anti-inflammatory actions, immunomodulation, modulation of glial cells and tumor growth regulation. Beyond that, the cannabinoids have also been shown to be remarkably safe with no potential for overdose."
Gregory T. Carter, MD, Clinical Professor at the School of Medicine at the University of Washington and Co-director of the Muscular Dystrophy Association (MDA)/Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS) Center, wrote the following in an Oct. 2003 article posted on the MDA website:

 

[Noyac]

do you really think simply making it legal, and allowing people to buy it at smoke shops, will suddenly put all those evil drug lords out of business?? really??

No, I don't think this way. It will just put the marijuana dealers out of business, who by the way are not your typical evil drug lords. Those guys (evil drug lords) also deal in more sinister drugs like cocaine so they would continue to deal these drugs.

However, I also don't think we should be putting the non-evil marijuana growers out of business. We allow them to be the growers through licensure. After all, they are the experts.

So Surfer, I appreciate your points and I have attempted to refute them here. I welcome your thoughts since this is an open discussion and not an argument.

 

[Noyac]

And because I just couldn't stop.

Much of the medical marijuana discussion has focused on the safety of marijuana compared to the safety of FDA-approved drugs. On June 24, 2005 a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to find the number of deaths caused by marijuana compared to the number of deaths caused by 17 FDA-approved drugs. Twelve of these FDA-approved drugs were chosen because they are commonly prescribed in place of medical marijuana, while the remaining five FDA-approved drugs were randomly selected because they are widely used and recognized by the general public.

IV. Summary of Deaths by Drug Classification


DRUG CLASSIFICATION
Specific
Drugs per
Category
Primary
Suspect of the Death
Secondary Suspect (Contributing to death)
Total Deaths Reported
1/1/97 - 6/30/05
A. MARIJUANA
also known as: Cannabis sativa L
Marijuana
Cannabis
Cannabinoids
0
279
279
B. ANTI-EMETICS
(used to treat vomiting)
Compazine
Reglan
Marinol
Zofran
Anzemet
Kytril
Tigan
196
429
625
C. ANTI-SPASMODICS
(used to treat muscle spasms)
Baclofen
Zanaflex
118
56
174
D. ANTI-PSYCHOTICS
(used to treat psychosis)
Haldol
Lithium
Neurontin
1,593
702
2,295
E. OTHER POPULAR DRUGS
(used to treat various conditions including ADD, depression, narcolepsy, erectile dysfunction, and pain)
Ritalin
Wellbutrin
Adderall
Viagra
Vioxx*
8,101
492
8,593

F. TOTALS of A-E
Number
of Drugs
in Total
Primary
Suspect of the Death
Secondary Suspect (Contributing to death)
Total Deaths Reported
1/1/97 - 6/30/05
TOTAL DEATHS FROM MARIJUANA
1 drug tested
0 deaths as primary med
279 deaths in conjunction with other meds (secondary suspect)
279 total deaths
TOTAL DEATHS FROM 17 FDA-APPROVED DRUGS
17 drugs tested
10,008 primary deaths
1,679 secondary suspect
11,687 total deaths

 

[Consigliere]

As far as medically prescribed marijuana goes there are really no other medications that have the same mechanisms of action as marijuana. Dronabinol (Marinol) is available by prescription in capsules, but has the distinct disadvantage of containing only synthetic delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) which is only one of many therapeutically beneficial cannabinoids in the natural plant.

For some users, perhaps as many as 10 per cent, cannabis leads to psychological dependence, but there is scant evidence that it carries a risk of true addiction. Unlike cigarette smokers, most users do not take the drug on a daily basis, and usually abandon it in their twenties or thirties.
Unlike for nicotine, alcohol and hard drugs, there is no clearly defined withdrawal syndrome, the hallmark of true addiction, when use is stopped.

Or their forties....😉

 

[Noyac]

Or their forties....😉

Or fifties.

 

[pgg]

do you really think simply making it legal, and allowing people to buy it at smoke shops, will suddenly put all those evil drug lords out of business?? really??

No, the evil drug lords will still have illegal stuff to smuggle and sell like heroin and cocaine. Don't worry about the drug lords. They'll get by ...

... until we just admit the whole war on drugs is as futile and counterproductive as prohibition was almost a century ago, and legalize everything. Not that that'll happen though since the only people who benefit from the war on drugs more than the drug lords are the pandering politicians who have duped guys like you into voting for them and their "tough" policies. 🙂

 

[Surfer]

I appreciate your comments Noyac, but I also think you can clearly see the problems with the studies you cite?

I can't figure out when it became so en-vogue to say things like "end the futile war on drugs. it accomplishes nothing." its as if you have believe the war on drugs is "futile" the same way you have to believe in "global warming."

I have several close friends in drug enforcement. I work in health care and deal with all the traumas that come through the door. So my opinions are mine, and based on what I've seen. I hate illegal drugs. I hate what they do to people. I hate the people who sell them. I hate what they do to society. I have spent time in areas where drugs are ignored, and these places are ugly. I would never want that for America.

So yeah, in this type of discussion its impossible for me to "prove" through scientific study that the war on drugs is worth fighting. But that's how I feel. In fact, I believe if we were tougher on drug users, and actually made getting caught a bad thing, the market might dry up considerably here. For instance, get caught using drugs, you get 3 months of labor (not prison, labor). 2nd offense, 6 months of labor (cleaning up the side of the road). 3rd time, you're going to jail.

I don't think drug users are bad. I think they fail to understand the consequences of their actions, and if we give them a few months to think about it while working hard, the market might change.

On a side note, I've noticed most of the drugs in America are probably bought with tax dollars that have been "redistributed" to the "needy." So I would propose if you get any form of check from the govt you also get a random drug test twice a year. If you test positive, cest la vie to your paycheck.

 

[Noyac]

I appreciate your comments Noyac, but I also think you can clearly see the problems with the studies you cite?

I can't figure out when it became so en-vogue to say things like "end the futile war on drugs. it accomplishes nothing." its as if you have believe the war on drugs is "futile" the same way you have to believe in "global warming."

I have several close friends in drug enforcement. I work in health care and deal with all the traumas that come through the door. So my opinions are mine, and based on what I've seen. I hate illegal drugs. I hate what they do to people. I hate the people who sell them. I hate what they do to society. I have spent time in areas where drugs are ignored, and these places are ugly. I would never want that for America.

So yeah, in this type of discussion its impossible for me to "prove" through scientific study that the war on drugs is worth fighting. But that's how I feel. In fact, I believe if we were tougher on drug users, and actually made getting caught a bad thing, the market might dry up considerably here. For instance, get caught using drugs, you get 3 months of labor (not prison, labor). 2nd offense, 6 months of labor (cleaning up the side of the road). 3rd time, you're going to jail.

I don't think drug users are bad. I think they fail to understand the consequences of their actions, and if we give them a few months to think about it while working hard, the market might change.

On a side note, I've noticed most of the drugs in America are probably bought with tax dollars that have been "redistributed" to the "needy." So I would propose if you get any form of check from the govt you also get a random drug test twice a year. If you test positive, cest la vie to your paycheck.

Well your opinions are obviously just that, "yours". I hope you are not saying that I said the war on drugs was futile, because I never said that. Unfortunately, you are like may folks in this country who have given marijuana a stigma. We are only talking about marijuana here but somehow I think you are including marijuana with all drugs.

Let me ask you this question. Prescription pain meds are abused more and more every day. They are ruining lives and making the US a country full of addicts for those that use these meds. Do you believe that marijuana is inherently a more dangerous drug? How about when compared to oxycontin? But oxycontin is legal with a prescription, right?

Unfortunately, we have people who can't see the whole picture. They allow biases and societal beliefs to skew their opinions. They are Closed Minded.

Please don't take this personally, I am just debating.

 

[Noyac]

God forbid you ever get cancer or any family member of yours. But if you did and the nausea and lack of appetite were to raise their ugly head, would you not want the option of a doobie? What harm would this be causing?

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I am all in favor of marijuana being legalized. I doubt I would light a spliff up if it were legal. I have too much other stuff to do that sit around with the munchies all night.

Some thoughts:

I think the war on drugs is a joke. Unfortunatley I am old enough to clearly remember the episode of Diff'rent Strokes when nancy reagan told everyone to just say no.

Noyac makes a great point about prescription drugs. These drugs are "legal" yet are widely abused and cause untold problems.

I think jailing people for minor drug offenses is dumb. They need rehab.

 

[Bertelman]

I appreciate your comments Noyac, but I also think you can clearly see the problems with the studies you cite?

I can't figure out when it became so en-vogue to say things like "end the futile war on drugs. it accomplishes nothing." its as if you have believe the war on drugs is "futile" the same way you have to believe in "global warming."

I have several close friends in drug enforcement. I work in health care and deal with all the traumas that come through the door. So my opinions are mine, and based on what I've seen. I hate illegal drugs. I hate what they do to people. I hate the people who sell them. I hate what they do to society. I have spent time in areas where drugs are ignored, and these places are ugly. I would never want that for America.

So yeah, in this type of discussion its impossible for me to "prove" through scientific study that the war on drugs is worth fighting. But that's how I feel. In fact, I believe if we were tougher on drug users, and actually made getting caught a bad thing, the market might dry up considerably here. For instance, get caught using drugs, you get 3 months of labor (not prison, labor). 2nd offense, 6 months of labor (cleaning up the side of the road). 3rd time, you're going to jail.

I don't think drug users are bad. I think they fail to understand the consequences of their actions, and if we give them a few months to think about it while working hard, the market might change.

On a side note, I've noticed most of the drugs in America are probably bought with tax dollars that have been "redistributed" to the "needy." So I would propose if you get any form of check from the govt you also get a random drug test twice a year. If you test positive, cest la vie to your paycheck.

1) About the time people realized we have been "fighting" this war for more than twenty years, with little to show for it.

2) Don't pretend drugs are the cause of all the violence and despair in this country. It's more likely people in despair and squalor reach for drugs to escape their ****ty reality.

3) What job are they working? Who is paying for their job? How do you ensure they arrive for their labor camp? What if they are already employed- they will lose their paying job, likely result being more despair when they are released from work camp, thus more drugs. Our jails are already beyond full, with few communities offering land to build more.

4) Is that a statement of fact, or just a reflection of your observation that the only drug users you see are of a certain socioeconomic background? I would bet you there are far more responsible, employed adults enjoying marijuana than there are welfare recipients. I think you underestimate the number of seemingly "honest", working people that abuse drugs from marijuana to cocaine. It's not a mark of poor, marginalized, underperforming citizens. People from all walks of life abuse drugs. Those with half a brain and vital resources just don't typically end up in the ED or jail.

Furthermore, you've just established your bias against people receiving gov't aid as second-class, subjecting them to more restrictions on their liberties such as drug tests. As I mentioned above, if your goal is to INCREASE drug use and violence, try taking away a drug user's income. You have destroyed their hope while simultaneously taking away their primary means to obtain what they want. I smell a robbery in progress.

 

[2win]

Just my 2 cents - as a guy who's doing pain...
My policy is either opioids or pot.
If you combine them you could prescribe as well some mushrooms and narcotics or why not a shot of moonshine q4h prn and a vicodin...
Did you guys (the one pro pot) have you ever worked in a pain clinic?
PEACE!

 

[Noyac]

Just my 2 cents - as a guy who's doing pain...
My policy is either opioids or pot.
If you combine them you could prescribe as well some mushrooms and narcotics or why not a shot of moonshine q4h prn and a vicodin...
Did you guys (the one pro pot) have you ever worked in a pain clinic?
PEACE!

Are you asking me if I ever worked in a pain clinic?

 

[2win]

It was a general question Noy.
Maybe you read the original thread from the pain forum and you know the general opinion regarding cannabis for pain. I don't have any problem to write it for cancer patients - but for LBP and fibromyalgia - give me a break...
Did you see any decrease in narcotics after cannabis was added to a pain patient therapeutic regimen? Me - I didn't.

PS: Marijuana prop 215 is for: diabetes???, asthma, insomnia, irritable bowel, seizures, sports injury, depression..."all new patients receive a FREE gram".

 

[Noyac]

It was a general question Noy.
Maybe you read the original thread from the pain forum and you know the general opinion regarding cannabis for pain. I don't have any problem to write it for cancer patients - but for LBP and fibromyalgia - give me a break...
Did you see any decrease in narcotics after cannabis was added to a pain patient therapeutic regimen? Me - I didn't.

PS: Marijuana prop 215 is for: diabetes???, asthma, insomnia, irritable bowel, seizures, sports injury, depression..."all new patients receive a FREE gram".

Don't get me wrong 2win. I am in no way endorsing the prescibing of marijuana for pts suffering from pain syndromes. I don't think there is enough evidence to make the claim that it is beneficial at this point. And having had a pain practice for a number of years (I no longer do this) I don't see much benefit. Watching these pts wigged out on methadone is bad enough. Why would we add marijuana to the mix?

But there is some info out there:
Donald Abrams, MD, Professor of Clinical Medicine at the University of California at San Francisco and Cheryl A. Jay, MD, Director of the San Francisco General Hospital Neurology Clinic, et al., stated the following in their Sep. 9-10, 2005 abstract titled "Smoked Cannabis Therapy for HIV-Related Painful Peripheral Neuropathy: Results of a Randomized, Placebo-Controlled Clinical Trial," presented at the International Assocation for Cannabis as Medicine (IACM) 3rd Conference on Cannabinoids in Medicine:
"There is significant evidence that cannabinoids may be involved in the modulation of pain, especially of neuropathic origin. HIV-related painful peripheral neuropathy is a significant medical problem with unsatisfactory treatment options. Based on the effects of cannabinoids in preclinical models of neuropathic pain and anecdotal case reports, a controlled trial of smoked cannabis was conducted...

Thirteen of the 25 patients who were randomized to marijuana cigarettes reported greater then 30% reduction in pain during the intervention phase, compared with 6 of the 25 patients receiving placebo cigarettes...

Smoked marijuana is effective in reducing chronic ongoing neuropathic pain as well as acute pain in the experimental pain model. The magnitude of the response of the neuropathic pain is similar to what is seen with gabapentin, a widely used therapeutic intervention for HIV neuropathy."

 

[Planktonmd]

It was a general question Noy.
Maybe you read the original thread from the pain forum and you know the general opinion regarding cannabis for pain. I don't have any problem to write it for cancer patients - but for LBP and fibromyalgia - give me a break...
Did you see any decrease in narcotics after cannabis was added to a pain patient therapeutic regimen? Me - I didn't.

PS: Marijuana prop 215 is for: diabetes???, asthma, insomnia, irritable bowel, seizures, sports injury, depression..."all new patients receive a FREE gram".

Correct me if I am wrong but there are many drugs you use in your daily practice as a pain specialist that lack the strong evidence that you want but you still prescribe them anyway.
The fact that when you added Cannabis you did not see a decrease in narcotic use does not mean that they don't work, it simply means that the narcotic dependence you participated in creating (no offense intended) is too strong, and even if the actual physical pain has decreased your patients are not going to admit it and are not willing to decrease their narcotic use because they are simply dependent!
Maybe if you use Cannabis early on in your treatment you don't have to reach the point where the patient is so dependent on narcotics.
I am not saying that I know that for a fact but could it be possible in your judgment?

 

[2win]

Don't get me wrong 2win. I am in no way endorsing the prescibing of marijuana for pts suffering from pain syndromes. I don't think there is enough evidence to make the claim that it is beneficial at this point. And having had a pain practice for a number of years (I no longer do this) I don't see much benefit. Watching these pts wigged out on methadone is bad enough. Why would we add marijuana to the mix?

But there is some info out there:
Donald Abrams, MD, Professor of Clinical Medicine at the University of California at San Francisco and Cheryl A. Jay, MD, Director of the San Francisco General Hospital Neurology Clinic, et al., stated the following in their Sep. 9-10, 2005 abstract titled "Smoked Cannabis Therapy for HIV-Related Painful Peripheral Neuropathy: Results of a Randomized, Placebo-Controlled Clinical Trial," presented at the International Assocation for Cannabis as Medicine (IACM) 3rd Conference on Cannabinoids in Medicine:
"There is significant evidence that cannabinoids may be involved in the modulation of pain, especially of neuropathic origin. HIV-related painful peripheral neuropathy is a significant medical problem with unsatisfactory treatment options. Based on the effects of cannabinoids in preclinical models of neuropathic pain and anecdotal case reports, a controlled trial of smoked cannabis was conducted...

Thirteen of the 25 patients who were randomized to marijuana cigarettes reported greater then 30% reduction in pain during the intervention phase, compared with 6 of the 25 patients receiving placebo cigarettes...

Smoked marijuana is effective in reducing chronic ongoing neuropathic pain as well as acute pain in the experimental pain model. The magnitude of the response of the neuropathic pain is similar to what is seen with gabapentin, a widely used therapeutic intervention for HIV neuropathy."

I don't know...Plankton could be right too. In the same time there is evidence (with the same level of support as the cannabis studies) that smoking tobacco is helping with the pain. I do agree that is better to use cannabis than pop vicodin all day long...And yes - I saw patients with cancer (no appetite, wasting, depression) that improved all the pain scores (including the functional ones) after they used cannabis. And for me it was a reason to prescribe it .

 

[badasshairday]

I found this website when discussing medicinal marijuana on the the pain medicine forum. It is just too good not to share.

http://www.doc420.com/

Here is another article about her... and another nice photo to share.

http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2007/11/dr-sona-patel-m-for-marijuana-m-for.html

100$ a script. If you don't qualify for medical mj, you don't pay. If she writes out 20 referrals a day, at 100$ (CASH only of course) a pop... you do the math my friends. She works 7 days a week, with 3 clinics in 3 of the most poshest areas of LA, SD, and SF.

EDIT:
Here is the article about the local news trying to sting her. All legit.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/iteam&id=5738428
And near the bottom it mentions she see's 20-30 patients a day............ $$$

 

[foxtrot]

What's too good not to share: the picture or the article?

How about both. Did anyone actually enter the site and look at her office. Her office has gold furnishings (probably gold plated). Does anyone know the price of gold these days. This s&^% is crazy!

 

[RussianJoo]

honestly people are going to do whatever they want to do. Prohibition of alcohol didn't work and recently a CDC study showed that more americans are smoking as well. I guess all the increased cig taxes and comercials on the dangers of smoking had no impact. So in this crappy economy if Obama legalizes marijuanna he can probably raise enough revenue from taxing the crop to pay for whatever healthcare bill he wants. The US is struggaling, the dollar is falling this could be potentially change all that.

http://health.usnews.com/articles/h...ress-in-stamping-out-smoking-has-stalled.html

 

[RussianJoo]

I appreciate your comments Noyac, but I also think you can clearly see the problems with the studies you cite?

I can't figure out when it became so en-vogue to say things like "end the futile war on drugs. it accomplishes nothing." its as if you have believe the war on drugs is "futile" the same way you have to believe in "global warming."

I have several close friends in drug enforcement. I work in health care and deal with all the traumas that come through the door. So my opinions are mine, and based on what I've seen. I hate illegal drugs. I hate what they do to people. I hate the people who sell them. I hate what they do to society. I have spent time in areas where drugs are ignored, and these places are ugly. I would never want that for America.

So yeah, in this type of discussion its impossible for me to "prove" through scientific study that the war on drugs is worth fighting. But that's how I feel. In fact, I believe if we were tougher on drug users, and actually made getting caught a bad thing, the market might dry up considerably here. For instance, get caught using drugs, you get 3 months of labor (not prison, labor). 2nd offense, 6 months of labor (cleaning up the side of the road). 3rd time, you're going to jail.

I don't think drug users are bad. I think they fail to understand the consequences of their actions, and if we give them a few months to think about it while working hard, the market might change.

On a side note, I've noticed most of the drugs in America are probably bought with tax dollars that have been "redistributed" to the "needy." So I would propose if you get any form of check from the govt you also get a random drug test twice a year. If you test positive, cest la vie to your paycheck.

Yes Amsterdam is an ugly dirty place, the people are poor and the streets are crime ridden. that's sarcasm by the way. I am not for it or against it, but you've brought up a lot of your own personal bias and bigotry in your post.

 

[Surfer]

nope, never been to amsterdam, but way to drop the "bigotry" card. I'm still trying to figure that one out...

i've never once seen something good come from drugs or the drug trade. i've seen lots of bad.

 

[pgg]

i've never once seen something good come from drugs or the drug trade. i've seen lots of bad.

What about the tobacco trade, state-run lotteries, or reality TV shows?

Just because "bad" things come from certain stupid activities doesn't mean that the best solution is government prohibition of that activity.

 

[cfdavid]

From a stricly economic point of view, banning marijuana doesn't seem to make sense.

First, our law enforcement gets dragged into busting mostly petty "criminals" selling dime bags in their neighborhoods. The illegality creates the kinds of monsters we see in almost any black market trade.

We spend loads of money, as a society, prosecuting these relatively small time players, and every now and then the DEA will come up with a larger bust.

Then, we send these guys to jail and this costs society even more money.

This isn't exactly "my issue", but I've heard that hemp could be used to produce a wide variety of goods. Also, the growing and taxing of marijuana and hemp-made products could be a nice boost to our debt laden government.

Also, these would be jobs that are actually productive (the scale of jobs I'm speaking of would require a hemp-product industry and not just serving the medicinal purposes, which I'd say is a much smaller market, but who knows), involving land cultivation, irrigation systems, harvesting, packaging etc. The kinds of jobs that tend to bring a certain amount of wealth to a community.

As for this creating demand, I highly doubt it. As I sit here typing this, I could hop into my car and come back in 1 hour with a bag of weed (If I so chose). And this is from someone not into pot and with no connections (o.k. I have a couple buddies with connections but....lol). Those that ARE, can score a bag in record time. I just don't see consumption going up after making it legal.

cf

 

[2win]

Here is another article about her... and another nice photo to share.

http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2007/11/dr-sona-patel-m-for-marijuana-m-for.html

100$ a script. If you don't qualify for medical mj, you don't pay. If she writes out 20 referrals a day, at 100$ (CASH only of course) a pop... you do the math my friends. She works 7 days a week, with 3 clinics in 3 of the most poshest areas of LA, SD, and SF.

EDIT:
Here is the article about the local news trying to sting her. All legit.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/iteam&id=5738428
And near the bottom it mentions she see's 20-30 patients a day............ $$$

Are you sure that 100$ are only for the pot???

 

[dhb]

i've never once seen something good come from drugs or the drug trade. i've seen lots of bad.

So i guess you despise virtually all artistic performance since the beginning of mankind 🙄
The drug trade was doing good to farmers in South America before the "war on drugs" forced the drug trade into the hand of paramilitary groups.
Same goes for Afghanistan...

Legalize all drugs, free the jail system from more than 50% of the inmates that are there on drug related charges, raise money from the sale, create jobs, create programs oversees that benefit the the poor farmers, better prevention counceling and rehab from revenues, free police from drug relate duties and let them focus on more important matters..... should i go on??

History teaches us that attempts to control people from getting high have repeatedly failed. If you can fight it why not control it?
If you can't learn a simple lesson... 🙄

 

[cfdavid]

So i guess you despise virtually all artistic performance since the beginning of mankind 🙄
The drug trade was doing good to farmers in South America before the "war on drugs" forced the drug trade into the hand of paramilitary groups.
Same goes for Afghanistan...

Legalize all drugs, free the jail system from more than 50% of the inmates that are there on drug related charges, raise money from the sale, create jobs, create programs oversees that benefit the the poor farmers, better prevention counceling and rehab from revenues, free police from drug relate duties and let them focus on more important matters..... should i go on??

History teaches us that attempts to control people from getting high have repeatedly failed. If you can fight it why not control it?
If you can't learn a simple lesson... 🙄

I hear you on your points. But, do we really want U.S. companies buying up land in Columbia and Afghanistan, cultivating, processing, packaging, marketing cocaine and heroin?????

Marijuana is quite a different drug.

I will agree that the War on Drugs has been a super costly failure and DO see your points. Relative to the heavier drugs, we'd have to see some very good data that increased access did not increase demand. Also, remember that costs would likely come down when cutting out the "heat" that current cartels must deal with. So, these are important questions.

I don't think pot demand would really increase all that much. And, while I'm sure it's pretty easy to score heroing or cocaine, I have to think pot is much easier. The point is that you could potentially open up a "market" to people that didn't previously exist.

 

[pgg]

I hear you on your points. But, do we really want U.S. companies buying up land in Columbia and Afghanistan, cultivating, processing, packaging, marketing cocaine and heroin?????

Sure, why not?

They already market cigarettes, alcohol, and motorcycles, all of which kill more people than cocaine or heroin.

 

[Noyac]

i've never once seen something good come from drugs or the drug trade. i've seen lots of bad.

Then take all your albums, all your tapes, all your CD's and burn them cause you know what. Everyone that made them were REAL F*CKING HIGH on drugs!

Some of you may recognize this line from a TOOL CD.

 

[Surfer]

Then take all your albums, all your tapes, all your CD's and burn them cause you know what. Everyone that made them were REAL F*CKING HIGH on drugs!

Some of you may recognize this line from a TOOL CD.

Hahahaha, good point, but my mom might argue those cd's were bad too