Medicine -- avoid at all costs

[jamaica jan sun princess]

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I was looking at a biology professor's school page and thought of this thread.

It took him 7 years to get a PhD in microbiology(plus 4 years undergrad). He then worked as a research technician for a year and as a postdoctoral fellow for 7 years before landing an assistant professor position at a state school. At that point, his salary was <$70,000 a year.

 

[Splenda88]

I don't see any other job that I can do that I will pay me 300k/year. I am good OP. Thanks!

 

[skeptastic]

I met a social worker who only works 40 hours a week and said they wished they could go back to school and do something else. And teachers despite having winter break, summer, spring break, thanksgiving, and every holiday off say they're overworked and wish they could do something else. Honestly, a lot of people complain.

Indeed. My wife is an educator and complains frequently. When she gets into the nuts and bolts of what is upsetting her, I find it difficult to imagine how she puts up with any of it. That being said, I agree that a lot of people complain. It is apparently very hard not to take things for granted, or to focus on the positive aspect of one's job, long-term.

All jokes aside, my wife and I have realized the incredible benefit of seeing a therapist, especially since mot folks can do so at zero cost, per the EAP program offered by most employers. Reminding the people closest to you over and over again about how hard your job or life is makes you a drag to be around. Dumping that same stuff on a therapist keeps them paid, and you typically are given useful strategies that can help you cope in positive ways.

 

[Mad Jack]

Indeed. My wife is an educator and complains frequently. When she gets into the nuts and bolts of what is upsetting her, I find it difficult to imagine how she puts up with any of it. That being said, I agree that a lot of people complain. It is apparently very hard not to take things for granted, or to focus on the positive aspect of one's job, long-term.

All jokes aside, my wife and I have realized the incredible benefit of seeing a therapist, especially since mot folks can do so at zero cost, per the EAP program offered by most employers. Reminding the people closest to you over and over again about how hard your job or life is makes you a drag to be around. Dumping that same stuff on a therapist keeps them paid, and you typically are given useful strategies that can help you cope in positive ways.

Niiiice necrobump

With regard to the original post, 1 opinion on medicine is 1 opinion on medicine. It isn't sunshine and rainbows but it's about as good as any other job once you are done and the pay and job security is much better. Don't let a post in the SDN Premed forum scare you away from a career in medicine, but do your research and be aware that you might be unable to enter the specialty of your dreams if your scores don't pan out. If you're okay with the realities of the situation, welcome aboard. If not, best of luck.

 

[mwsapphire]

Niiiice necrobump

With regard to the original post, 1 opinion on medicine is 1 opinion on medicine. It isn't sunshine and rainbows but it's about as good as any other job once you are done and the pay and job security is much better. Don't let a post in the SDN Premed forum scare you away from a career in medicine, but do your research and be aware that you might be unable to enter the specialty of your dreams if your scores don't pan out. If you're okay with the realities of the situation, welcome aboard. If not, best of luck.
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I'd actually say in a lot of ways medicine is better than most jobs ( corporate jobs and the like). You actually interact with humans and help people manage chronic diseases rather than (only) produce money for some CEO at the top of a company. I know that there is still some of that in medicine, but ultimately still more humanity to it.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'd actually say in a lot of ways medicine is better than most jobs ( corporate jobs and the like). You actually interact with humans and help people manage chronic diseases rather than (only) produce money for some CEO at the top of a company. I know that there is still some of that in medicine, but ultimately still more humanity to it.

I feel like the dehumanizing nature of treating people for profit kind of undermines this as many places. Not everywhere, but many places. Turn out those widgets, milk those insurance dollars!

Overall better though, because at least the work is objectively meaningful

 

[skeptastic]

Niiiice necrobump

Haha! I noticed that I'd liked his comment but didn't respond. That was definitely several moths ago, though lol!

 

[46Long]

I'd actually say in a lot of ways medicine is better than most jobs

and you know this how?

 

[mwsapphire]

and you know this how?

Sorry, the handful of docs at the clinic I worked at and the two docs I shadowed- just relaying what they think. Should have made that more clear.

 

[46Long]

Sorry, the handful of docs at the clinic I worked at and the two docs I shadowed- just relaying what they think. Should have made that more clear.

I suggest you do more examining into your future choices.. otherwise it may not be a good fit for what you want thats all.

 

[Mad Jack]

I suggest you do more examining into your future choices.. otherwise it may not be a good fit for what you want thats all.

It's not great but it's really not bad. It's better than the majority of jobs, that's for sure.

 

[46Long]

It's not great but it's really not bad. It's better than the majority of jobs, that's for sure.

Would you train for a job for 10+ years for a job hats really not bad?

 

[Mad Jack]

Would you train for a job for 10+ years for a job hats really not bad?

I mean, that's what I did. Most jobs kind of suck, and I had a few before I became a physician, all of which were equally as bad as what I do now but with less meaningful work and less pay.

 

[46Long]

I mean, that's what I did. Most jobs kind of suck, and I had a few before I became a physician, all of which were equally as bad as what I do now but with less meaningful work and less pay.

If you say most jobs suck which is fine but most jobs you dont have to put in nearly the investment and sacrifice to learn.. If you are going to sacrifice everything (sometimes your life) for a job it better be better than (not great, but not really bad)

 

[Mad Jack]

If you say most jobs suck which is fine but most jobs you dont have to put in nearly the investment and sacrifice to learn.. If you are going to sacrifice everything (sometimes your life) for a job it better be better than (not great, but not really bad)

The idea that you sacrifice everything for medicine isn't true. Medical school was a good time. I spent about as much time with people as I would have otherwise, since unlike when I was working I had weekends and holidays off. Residency is the hardest part, but even that isn't as bad as any other early career in a high-paying field before you become a partner.

 

[46Long]

The idea that you sacrifice everything for medicine isn't true. Medical school was a good time. I spent about as much time with people as I would have otherwise, since unlike when I was working I had weekends and holidays off. Residency is the hardest part, but even that isn't as bad as any other early career in a high-paying field before you become a partner.

The endless ass-kissing is "death"to me. It may come natural to some people tho, so you may have a point

 

[Mad Jack]

The endless ass-kissing is "death"to me. It may come natural to some people tho, so you may have a point

I never did this. It is a misperception that you need to, and a practice engaged in by those who are insecure with the ability of their talents to speak for themselves

 

[Mad Jack]

It comes natural to you.

Lovely ad hominem. As a nontraditional student I never really understood what the deal was with people sucking up to professors and preceptors. If you just work hard, you don't need to do it. Or a lot of the other stupid box checking people insist on- excessive volunteering, a billion clubs, etc. People do this because they see others doing it, but the secret is just because everyone else is kissing ass doesn't mean you must as well. So just stop, and maybe you will be happier?

 

[mwsapphire]

Lovely ad hominem. As a nontraditional student I never really understood what the deal was with people sucking up to professors and preceptors. If you just work hard, you don't need to do it. Or a lot of the other stupid box checking people insist on- excessive volunteering, a billion clubs, etc. People do this because they see others doing it, but the secret is just because everyone else is kissing ass doesn't mean you must as well. So just stop, and maybe you will be happier?

Was intern year as bad as people make it out to be ( and what career did you do that you didn't have weekends and holidays off, or do you mean work+ college full time).

 

[deleted859689]

If you say most jobs suck which is fine but most jobs you dont have to put in nearly the investment and sacrifice to learn.. If you are going to sacrifice everything (sometimes your life) for a job it better be better than (not great, but not really bad)

Everyone has their own marginal utility for what they do. Why buy a 50 dollar charger at an airport? Cause you forgot it at home. Why decide to drive a mile to the store instead of walking? Lazy, don’t feel like it, in a rush etc.

So why go into medicine? We each value something in medicine that gives us greater utility then the cost of everything negative you mentioned. Whether thats saving lives, using your paycheck to do whatever you want, simply the prestige of being a doctor, like talking to people (PCP), etc. it depends on the individual.

If your marginal utility of going to medicine does not exceed your marginal cost (again, measurement is of this cost depends on the individual), then maybe you shouldn’t go. In colloquial terms - list of pros and cons. I mean what I just outlined is also how we make decisions.

Overall, this thread is pretty pointless cause most people on SDN want to go to medical school already knowing all the negatives and stress involved. It’s just that they see some benefit that exceeds their marginal cost.

P. S. I got a C+ in economics

 

[Mad Jack]

Was intern year as bad as people make it out to be ( and what career did you do that you didn't have weekends and holidays off, or do you mean work+ college full time).

I was a respiratory therapist and prior to that I worked in sales for many years in a job that didn't allow for weekends off and only gave me two holidays a year.

Intern year wasn't that bad but I'm in a specialty. It tends to be worse in surgery or general medicine.

 

[mwsapphire]

I was a respiratory therapist and prior to that I worked in sales for many years in a job that didn't allow for weekends off and only gave me two holidays a year.

Intern year wasn't that bad but I'm in a specialty. It tends to be worse in surgery or general medicine.

Not to be dense but in that sales job did you not get any days off a week? ( Some jobs make you work weekends but will let you have , say, Tuesday off). Thats's insane. There are jobs other than medicine that overwork you with next to not time off a year, work weekends, no Holidays, and not to care for that genuinely sick person who is at the hospital when they don't want to be, but just to make money. Thats why I lean towards medicine as a better job overall.

 

[PikminOC]

Op is right in some ways. You put off having a family for a long time too. My friend with four year degrees are in jobs that have a pension so in town years they are good to retire.
The amount you make in medicine is taxed very highly. You pay for benefits, 401 k, etc. It comes out to less than you think.
The loans accrue interest and you're paying that interest for a long time before you pay down the principal.
The opportunity cost is high

 

[Mad Jack]

Not to be dense but in that sales job did you not get any days off a week? ( Some jobs make you work weekends but will let you have , say, Tuesday off). Thats's insane. There are jobs other than medicine that overwork you with next to not time off a year, work weekends, no Holidays, and not to care for that genuinely sick person who is at the hospital when they don't want to be, but just to make money. Thats why I lean towards medicine as a better job overall.

My days off were spent going to college so I could better myself, but usually I had 2-3 days off a week, they were just the worst days off. Sometimes I'd only get 1 day off. With school though, I was averaging maybe one or two actual days off per month, and even that was spent studying. Even did summer classes, since I was only doing 12 credits a semester during the spring and fall, so not even my summers were safe.

 

[deleted1001544]

A big argument here that medicine doesn't pay as well as people want it to and that there are long hours. Interesting, because I didn't recall "I want to make a lot of money and do very little work" was a valid answer in an interview. It sounds to me like if you want a job that lets you have yacht parties every other week, medicine isn't for you, but otherwise should be fine.

 

[skeptastic]

My days off were spent going to college so I could better myself, but usually I had 2-3 days off a week, they were just the worst days off. Sometimes I'd only get 1 day off. With school though, I was averaging maybe one or two actual days off per month, and even that was spent studying. Even did summer classes, since I was only doing 12 credits a semester during the spring and fall, so not even my summers were safe.

I miss my sales income, but Tue/Wed off is just terrible, long-term. Being with my family on the weekends has been amazing.

 

[Mad Jack]

I miss my sales income, but Tue/Wed off is just terrible, long-term. Being with my family on the weekends has been amazing.

Yeah, honestly my social life is almost as good, if not better, in residency than it was in my old jobs with school thrown in the mix. Only doing one weekend a month in my residency, and none after second year

 

[PikminOC]

Yeah, honestly my social life is almost as good, if not better, in residency than it was in my old jobs with school thrown in the mix. Only doing one weekend a month in my residency, and none after second year

Is that common for most residencies?

 

[Mad Jack]

Is that common for most residencies?

Depends on the specialty. Psych it is fairly common. Wouldn't encourage any premeds to pick their field based on residency lifestyle though

 

[PikminOC]

Depends on the specialty. Psych it is fairly common. Wouldn't encourage any premeds to pick their field based on residency lifestyle though

Psych is a minority of residency.

 

[mmchick]

As someone mentioned, this thread is pointless. You're apt to find something negative in any industry you go into-- restaurants, you never have weekends/holidays off; financial, you have to be part of literal caste systems and have a minor in ass-kissing; entrepreneural, no job security, constant uncertainty, major in ass-kissing; science/research, no job security, constant validation of yourself, constant hands out begging for money, cut-throat; I mean the list goes on.

If you are someone who values progress in your career and prioritizes making a difference in the world through your career and not through your life pursuits (i.e. raising children, caring for family members, etc.) then you're gonna be hell bent to get into any career that doesn't involve some level of sacrifice/investment to meet those goals. That's a simple fact of life and it sincerely surprises me that a supposed physician would create this thread without that knowledge of this ubiquitous nature of life.

PS, anyone who reads your post on SDN and decides against pursuing medicine wasn't all that serious about it to begin with.

 

[Mad Jack]

Psych is a minority of residency.

There's a lot of other specialties out there. Many derm, rads, some of the lighter neurology programs, PM&R, preventive medicine, and pathology programs have similar schedules. A lot of anesthesia programs have you doing about the same number of weekends in my neck of the woods, and have night float so there's no flipping about to nights. That's around 7,000 of the positions in the match each year, which certainly isn't nothing. I wouldn't go into residency expecting it to be chill, because even with having weekends off many of these specialties have long weekdays (I'm averaging around 60-65 hours a week plus I'm on 12 days straight when I am on for the weekend and averaging 80 hours over the two weeks which is exhausting). But I still have a life and a pretty good one. Residency doesn't have to be miserable, and the idea that your life is just gone for years no matter what is overblown.

 

[PikminOC]

There's a lot of other specialties out there. Many derm, rads, some of the lighter neurology programs, PM&R, preventive medicine, and pathology programs have similar schedules. A lot of anesthesia programs have you doing about the same number of weekends in my neck of the woods, and have night float so there's no flipping about to nights. That's around 7,000 of the positions in the match each year, which certainly isn't nothing. I wouldn't go into residency expecting it to be chill, because even with having weekends off many of these specialties have long weekdays (I'm averaging around 60-65 hours a week plus I'm on 12 days straight when I am on for the weekend and averaging 80 hours over the two weeks which is exhausting). But I still have a life and a pretty good one. Residency doesn't have to be miserable, and the idea that your life is just gone for years no matter what is overblown.

Common things are common. Im, peds, fm are the common residencies

 

[Mad Jack]

Common things are common. Im, peds, fm are the common residencies

But uncommon is not necessarily rare. If common and brutal residencies are like copper, the more benign specialties are silver at best.