Meeting PDs

[caliboy007]

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Question for all of those out there -

So a couple of scenarios....I had a few interviews with programs where I didn't get interviewed by the PD.

I also had two interviews at a couple pretty competitive California programs where the PD wasn't even there interviewing my group and the Associate or Assistant PD was giving the presentation.

What are your thoughts on considering these red flags? It just felt funny not to even get to interact with the PD and if this is someone who's my "boss" for 3 years, you would think it would be nice to meet this person.

 

[jbar]

If you really liked the rest of the people you met at a program, it shouldn't black list for you. But I agree it is a bit of a red flag. There was one place where the PD wasn't interviewing but she was just hanging out with the applicants in the holding area and it really rubbed me the wrong way. First of all it made the time between interviews more stressful. And secondly I sorta felt that if I'm going to come all the way out to interview at a program I should get at least ten minutes of one on one time with the PD. If I'm going to give somewhere 3-4 years of my life, I want to get a feel for the captain of that ship.

Now if somewhere tells you the PD couldn't be there for a specific reason, family emergency etc not a big deal. But I think it is a red flag if the PD is around and doesn't think it's important to meet you.

 

[SoCuteMD]

My PD interviews every candidate. I interviewed at one place where the PD interviewed half the candidates for the day. That was the only place where I didn't interview with the PD. It is a well-known program with an excellent reputation, but having a PD who didn't think it was important to meet every candidate dropped it way down my rank list.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

I think you're overthinking this. Interviews are a haul and honestly good candidates are pretty easy to spot by everyone. Bad candidates also generally manage to fail to hide their pathology(ies).

Is it a little strange? Yes, probably.

Is it a reason not to rank a program you otherwise liked? No, no, no.

 

[gutonc]

I think you're overthinking this. Interviews are a haul and honestly good candidates are pretty easy to spot by everyone. Bad candidates also generally manage to fail to hide their pathology(ies).

Is it a little strange? Yes, probably.

Is it a reason not to rank a program you otherwise liked? No, no, no.

Agree.

Also, PDs are busy people. Yes, their main job is to run the residency program, but they probably also have other clinical, research or administrative duties (sometimes all of the above) which may prevent them from being available to interview (or even in town) on certain interview days. That fact that you happened to interview on such a day doesn't reflect negatively on you, the PD or the program.

 

[BADMD]

So a couple of scenarios....I had a few interviews with programs where I didn't get interviewed by the PD....

Was the PD there or not. Did you ask if this was typical?

I can't speak for other programs, but we interview twice a week for 2.5 months. While the PD and associate PD try to see everyone, if something comes up, you can't realistically reschedule 12 people (especially as that would require opening up a new, unanticipated interview day).

I am also amazed at how often the 5 people who do the majority of the interviews have a very similar opinion of candidates.

If you have any PD specific questions, drop an email.

 

[qwerty1234]

Its really up to you.

When I made my list there was a program I really liked but I couldn't put it in front of other programs I liked nearly as much whose PD I had met. For me it was too big a part of the program to have as a question mark. I didn't realize this until it was to late to fly across the country to sit down with the PD.

I think you'll find varying opinions about how much it matters - thats probably because the effect a PD has on a program (or person) varies for every program and for every person in the program.

For me, I picked a program almost entirely based on the PD and I've been very happy with my choice. Of course if you do this, you might want to be fairly confident the PD isnt moving on soon. There are some (excellent) PDs around >5-7 years but its not the norm.

 

[caliboy007]

Was the PD there or not. Did you ask if this was typical?

I can't speak for other programs, but we interview twice a week for 2.5 months. While the PD and associate PD try to see everyone, if something comes up, you can't realistically reschedule 12 people (especially as that would require opening up a new, unanticipated interview day).

I am also amazed at how often the 5 people who do the majority of the interviews have a very similar opinion of candidates.

If you have any PD specific questions, drop an email.

Thanks for the answers. So, one of the interviews, the PD wasn't even in town. It was his vacation week (so I thought to myself why would they even schedule an interview date then). Not only was the PD not there... the associate PD also wasn't there... we had the assistant PD who had only been with the program for 6 months!!

One other interview, the PD was interviewing the afternoon group while I was the morning group. The PD was in the resident's conference for the morning. Never actually got to meet the PD since the APD gave us the presentation as well.

I should say both of these are actually really strong programs too which was the surprising part. Made me think that maybe they think they're so strong that they can do what they want.

I don't mind if I am not interviewed by the PD... but as long as I get to meet him/her at some point and say hello and at least see if I like this person. If I am taking my time and money to get to these programs, I just felt they should recognize that and at least have the PD talk to us (I would not have scheduled an interview on a date knowing the PD was on vacation that week).

 

[deleted109597]

People schedule vacation. It happens. Interview season is a specific part of the year, and in case you weren't aware, each program interviews a hundred or more (sometimes lots more). Simply put, they can't be there for all of them.

Usually they miss the low yield days. If you had lots of non-PD days, then maybe it's you, and not them.

Programs are strong, and can do what they want. If no PD interviewed anybody, they would still have people beating down the doors.

 

[gman33]

Not meeting your future boss on an interview makes it harder to make an informed decision. I wouldn't write off a program just because of that, but it would leave that a question mark for me.

I understand why the PD can't always be there, but that doesn't make it any better as an applicant.

Not that you are likely to get a negative review, but maybe just ask some of the residents what they think of the PD.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Again try to look at it from the other perspective. You are the applicant thinking that this program needs to see you strengths, dynamic personality, and go-getter attitude. To the program you are one of >100 people who they are meeting based on your grades/scores/LORs and trying to figure out if you are a psychopath or not. It's not that they don't care about you, but their goals are far different from yours.

It's part of the reason that being nice to EVERYONE is sound advice on the interview trail. If the PD personally talks to you for 2 hours and then you make a disparaging comment to the secretary, you're out.

 

[gutonc]

Not meeting your future boss on an interview makes it harder to make an informed decision. I wouldn't write off a program just because of that, but it would leave that a question mark for me.

It's sort of like not meeting the CFO when you interview for a non-medical job. It would be nice, and that particular person will certainly impact you in one way or another, but, while they're "technically" your boss, your daily interaction with them will be minimal. You're going to have a lot more interaction with the people you probably did interview with (Asst PD, other attendings, senior residents) and they will have more of an impact on your "grades" via evaluations than the PD will.

I think a good relationship with the PD is nice to have but it's not the be-all end-all and if the rest of program was good enough to make you want to rank it, the PD is probably not going to be the make-or-break issue.

 

[Emergency!]

What you need to know about a PD can probably be mostly gleaned from talking to the residents. Are they happy? Do they feel like the PD supports them in conflicts with admin or other specialties? Do they feel like their PD is fair or do they avoid him/her at all costs? Yes, the PD's the boss, but as mentioned above, there are any number of people who are more responsible for your day to day happiness/satisfaction than the PD>