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Well said.
MEN: why are you guys going for nurses or medical assistants!?
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Awesome post.
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lol...I agree...badass post
what a loser lol, jk
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The real question shouldn't be why MD males don't go for other MD females, but rather why do you feel that "you" should only be with an MD male? Do you in your mind feel the person you are with has to be at an equal level as you in terms of career? I suspect so due to the frustration you show of other male doctors going for nurses/MA. But yet the irony here is you are the same way as these so called bad MD's you are venting about.
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My experience has been:
Looks and charisma are, always have been, and always will be most important to attracting the opposite gender. Looks are just as important to women as they are to men.
However, when a woman doesn't particularly care for her job/career or she doesn't make a lot of money, she needs or highly desires a well paid man to support her. Thus, she will fawn over the doctor and other high achieving types and physical attractiveness won't quite be as important to her. Some of these nurses and techs of course are very attractive, as they have more time to focus on their looks since their careers aren't as hard or stressful. These women can simply be gold diggers looking to exploit high earning men for superficial gains. Or they can highly respect high achieving men and simply be looking for financial security to raise a family. I have no disrespect for the latter.
When a woman does enjoy her career and she makes a decent living at it, she doesn't need a well paid man. She will go based more on things like looks and charisma. Yes, well educated women are not looking for backwards idiots, but in my experience they don't need to be physicians, and this broadens their dating pool to the more attractive guys out there from any college-educated profession.
As for men, some men are threatened by women who are more successful than them. Some are not. Some are happy to have a woman who gets paid more than them for various reasons. The opinions are all over the board on this one, with vocal people on both sides. Still, the male physician typically is not looking to quit being a physician and never really worries about money, so his dating pool is also broadened to more attractive people from any profession.
Thus, there is no special attraction for a doctor to date another doctor. If a male or female doctor is very attractive, they will have no problem getting whatever mate they want. If they're not so attractive, the male doctor will still be able to pull a tech or nurse rather easily who is looking for financial security. The unattractive female doctor is in trouble, unless she can find the male who values her financial security/intelligence, or a male who is similarly unattractive but highly achieving and feels strongly about a woman being his intellectual equal. It does take some amount of work on the females part in this case. Guys in a white coat who aren't total idiots will pull women in the hospital who hit on them. This is why so many career focused men marry a non-physician woman they met within the hospital. It's much easier to take someone who you clearly know is interested in you.
Looks and charisma are, always have been, and always will be most important to attracting the opposite gender. Looks are just as important to women as they are to men.
However, when a woman doesn't particularly care for her job/career or she doesn't make a lot of money, she needs or highly desires a well paid man to support her. Thus, she will fawn over the doctor and other high achieving types and physical attractiveness won't quite be as important to her. Some of these nurses and techs of course are very attractive, as they have more time to focus on their looks since their careers aren't as hard or stressful. These women can simply be gold diggers looking to exploit high earning men for superficial gains. Or they can highly respect high achieving men and simply be looking for financial security to raise a family. I have no disrespect for the latter.
When a woman does enjoy her career and she makes a decent living at it, she doesn't need a well paid man. She will go based more on things like looks and charisma. Yes, well educated women are not looking for backwards idiots, but in my experience they don't need to be physicians, and this broadens their dating pool to the more attractive guys out there from any college-educated profession.
As for men, some men are threatened by women who are more successful than them. Some are not. Some are happy to have a woman who gets paid more than them for various reasons. The opinions are all over the board on this one, with vocal people on both sides. Still, the male physician typically is not looking to quit being a physician and never really worries about money, so his dating pool is also broadened to more attractive people from any profession.
Thus, there is no special attraction for a doctor to date another doctor. If a male or female doctor is very attractive, they will have no problem getting whatever mate they want. If they're not so attractive, the male doctor will still be able to pull a tech or nurse rather easily who is looking for financial security. The unattractive female doctor is in trouble, unless she can find the male who values her financial security/intelligence, or a male who is similarly unattractive but highly achieving and feels strongly about a woman being his intellectual equal. It does take some amount of work on the females part in this case. Guys in a white coat who aren't total idiots will pull women in the hospital who hit on them. This is why so many career focused men marry a non-physician woman they met within the hospital. It's much easier to take someone who you clearly know is interested in you.
Let's all be real here. We ALL know the answer to this question. Men like good looking women. Women who are doctors are 99% of the time not good looking. Enough said!!!!!
Who doesn't like a wife who makes tons of money to help out the family. When it comes to money and beauty , we men almost always lean towards beauty.
Who doesn't like a wife who makes tons of money to help out the family. When it comes to money and beauty , we men almost always lean towards beauty.
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99%? More like 60%. Mirrors the regular population.
I am a prospective anesthesiology resident, about to end up at a big-name place. Here is my take on this.
I am the result of an MD/MD marriage and my own mother suggested that I do not date/marry another physician. I rubbished her advice, and dated another medical student for four years till we broke up. After that there was a steady stream of physicians and non-physicians. Most recently, I dated a nurse for two months.
I used to be a strong believer in dating other physicians/med students because they are the same mental level etc etc. I no longer believe that. There is no such thing as a 'mental level'. There are smart people in all occupations, and there are dumb-as-rocks people everywhere. Us folks in medical school and residency are great at passing exams and taking standardized tests. I doubt if they are any smarter in outside the hospital situations than, say, lawyers. We hold physicians in high esteem. But, you don't have to be a good person to be a physician, you just have to be academically bright. Good people are out there. Unfortunately, the standardized examination structure, costs, and pedigree required to break into the medical profession - which really is a rat race - throws out a LOT of the laid back, wonderful, self-sacrificing people. Not to say that nurses and social workers are all angels - I have known (and dated) some very psycho nurses - but a lot of these non-superstars end up in these ancillary professions. When you are looking for a spouse, you want someone nurturing, self-sacrificing, and supportive. Sadly, I have known very few physicians who are like that and those who are end up being the butt of jokes (What did you break at Michigan to end up in FM? Do you hate money??!?!?!!?).
I also believe that parents raise kids, daycare doesn't raise kids. If my mother had not given up her job as an anesthesiologist and become a stay-at-home mom, to give all her attention to my brother who was failing at school, he would have never been able to graduate from high school, let alone become the celebrated artist that he is today. So, I personally look for people who have the flexibility to be a stay at home spouse - your ophthalmology colleague is unlikely to make that sacrifice even though 300K/year that I am destined to make as an anesthesiologist will be more than enough to pay her loans (I don't have any) and have a secure future. I have never known anyone who complained that they, or someone they know, had a messed up life because their mother stayed at home to raise kids. On the flipside, I have known many, many families where both folks were physicians making money, building careers, and kids ended up as utter failures. Exceptions abound, though.
I am also deathly afraid of divorce. With no-fault divorces, men stand to lose way too much. In a relationship and marriage, **** will hit the fan some times. You will have to hang in there even though you are very, very angry at the other person. Hence, the self-sacrificing and nurturing nature. Besides, everyone seems normal only till you get to know them beyond the superficial persona. You have to deal with that. Marriage used to be an economic relationship even a century ago, and it worked. Women went out in the workforce during the world-wars and when the cost of living outstripped the one earner model. Now, nazi feminism has somehow convinced a lot of women that unless they control where they are going in life, their life is pointless. Or, they have to prove something to themselves and the world (I dated an ultra-feminist nurse for a while). That does not work with the concept of a family. You can choose either your career, or a family. But the career part also works. At some point of time, when the kids are going to school, it would be great if you can get back to a 9-5 easy going job, else you'd sit and home, have too much time to think, and drive yourself and me nuts.
My personal experience with residents is limited. I am an ethnic minority and I can recall three women, two ophtho residents, and one derm resident from my ethnic group who were looking for someone from the same group. All three were tall, attractive, and had the personality of a rocking chair. Moreover, their criteria for dating was that the guy should be a physician or a lawyer, and within physicians, someone from a macho specialty (in addition to being from their ethnic group, which is underrepresented in medicine). So, poor little me medical student had no chance (I am about 3 years older than the average med student so I was older than them). Now, that I am going into residency and have the dibs on medical students etc, I would most certainly not date these women.
That said, I am sure there are wonderful people out there. But, there can only be one alpha in a stable relationship and unfortunately that is me. You can't have two gods running one world. Simple as that. At the end of the day, you can hate me and the guys as much as you can, but at the age of 27+ you need us more than we need you. You have your criteria, we have ours. 🙂
I am the result of an MD/MD marriage and my own mother suggested that I do not date/marry another physician. I rubbished her advice, and dated another medical student for four years till we broke up. After that there was a steady stream of physicians and non-physicians. Most recently, I dated a nurse for two months.
I used to be a strong believer in dating other physicians/med students because they are the same mental level etc etc. I no longer believe that. There is no such thing as a 'mental level'. There are smart people in all occupations, and there are dumb-as-rocks people everywhere. Us folks in medical school and residency are great at passing exams and taking standardized tests. I doubt if they are any smarter in outside the hospital situations than, say, lawyers. We hold physicians in high esteem. But, you don't have to be a good person to be a physician, you just have to be academically bright. Good people are out there. Unfortunately, the standardized examination structure, costs, and pedigree required to break into the medical profession - which really is a rat race - throws out a LOT of the laid back, wonderful, self-sacrificing people. Not to say that nurses and social workers are all angels - I have known (and dated) some very psycho nurses - but a lot of these non-superstars end up in these ancillary professions. When you are looking for a spouse, you want someone nurturing, self-sacrificing, and supportive. Sadly, I have known very few physicians who are like that and those who are end up being the butt of jokes (What did you break at Michigan to end up in FM? Do you hate money??!?!?!!?).
I also believe that parents raise kids, daycare doesn't raise kids. If my mother had not given up her job as an anesthesiologist and become a stay-at-home mom, to give all her attention to my brother who was failing at school, he would have never been able to graduate from high school, let alone become the celebrated artist that he is today. So, I personally look for people who have the flexibility to be a stay at home spouse - your ophthalmology colleague is unlikely to make that sacrifice even though 300K/year that I am destined to make as an anesthesiologist will be more than enough to pay her loans (I don't have any) and have a secure future. I have never known anyone who complained that they, or someone they know, had a messed up life because their mother stayed at home to raise kids. On the flipside, I have known many, many families where both folks were physicians making money, building careers, and kids ended up as utter failures. Exceptions abound, though.
I am also deathly afraid of divorce. With no-fault divorces, men stand to lose way too much. In a relationship and marriage, **** will hit the fan some times. You will have to hang in there even though you are very, very angry at the other person. Hence, the self-sacrificing and nurturing nature. Besides, everyone seems normal only till you get to know them beyond the superficial persona. You have to deal with that. Marriage used to be an economic relationship even a century ago, and it worked. Women went out in the workforce during the world-wars and when the cost of living outstripped the one earner model. Now, nazi feminism has somehow convinced a lot of women that unless they control where they are going in life, their life is pointless. Or, they have to prove something to themselves and the world (I dated an ultra-feminist nurse for a while). That does not work with the concept of a family. You can choose either your career, or a family. But the career part also works. At some point of time, when the kids are going to school, it would be great if you can get back to a 9-5 easy going job, else you'd sit and home, have too much time to think, and drive yourself and me nuts.
My personal experience with residents is limited. I am an ethnic minority and I can recall three women, two ophtho residents, and one derm resident from my ethnic group who were looking for someone from the same group. All three were tall, attractive, and had the personality of a rocking chair. Moreover, their criteria for dating was that the guy should be a physician or a lawyer, and within physicians, someone from a macho specialty (in addition to being from their ethnic group, which is underrepresented in medicine). So, poor little me medical student had no chance (I am about 3 years older than the average med student so I was older than them). Now, that I am going into residency and have the dibs on medical students etc, I would most certainly not date these women.
That said, I am sure there are wonderful people out there. But, there can only be one alpha in a stable relationship and unfortunately that is me. You can't have two gods running one world. Simple as that. At the end of the day, you can hate me and the guys as much as you can, but at the age of 27+ you need us more than we need you. You have your criteria, we have ours. 🙂
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You must be talking about black women. They tend to have really unrealistic expectations. And you have dibs on medical students? It would really suck to go into a residency where the girls have an advantage just because they have a vagina and the resident is horny. If you are teaching them they should be off limits. And dibbs? Really? Women aren't the last beer in the fridge.
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Wanna try not to generalize like that?
What is the issue with black women anyway? I swear, it feels almost like a crime being one now. If you are not educated and not well spoken, you're ghetto. If you are articulate and ambitious, you're bitchy. If you get frustrated by the negative stereotypes people won't stop attaching to you, you're an angry black woman...Where is the middle ground?
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well are you black?
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Wanna try not to generalize like that?
What is the issue with black women anyway? I swear, it feels almost like a crime being one now. If you are not educated and not well spoken, you're ghetto. If you are articulate and ambitious, you're bitchy. If you get frustrated by the negative stereotypes people won't stop attaching to you, you're an angry black woman...Where is the middle ground?
I don't agree with this. The thing with black women is, they usually have to work so hard to "overcome" that when they get to a high place, their attitudes are usually very elitist and high and mighty. And probably rightfully so. Lets be honest, there are not a lot of African Americans that reach the level of med student or resident because there is so much black people have to overcome. I just feel like maybe black women should let their guard down a bit, smile more, and be able to take pride in their accomplishments without seeming arrogant about it. And yes Im a young black man, from a very poor family.
OMG, there are so few black students who get into medical school and I just got two to get into a fight. I am an angel! This is the beginning of great things!
You two! Now, give each other a hug. You, sir, buy her coffee. It's cold and you made her angry. 😛
You two! Now, give each other a hug. You, sir, buy her coffee. It's cold and you made her angry. 😛
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I'm not out to get in a fight with you or anything, but have you considered that your own insecurities might be what is making you feel this way?
You reserve the right to feel the way you do about your accomplishments. And so do other people, including black women. If a woman chooses to be arrogant and high and mighty that's her prerogative. She deals with the consequences of her arrogance. If you do not like that, move on. Find someone who is meek and gentle and enjoy your life with her. Nobody has to be anything to make you feel comfortable. There is a world of women out there for you to choose from.
Don't make blanket statements that serve no other purpose but to make you seem insecure.
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Black, White, Asian, Mexican, we all can have circumstances to overcome. That shouldn't become your excuse for being a jerk to anyone.
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No. Im not insecure for wanting a woman who's not arrogant. This entire thread was about why male dr's don't pick female dr's, and honestly im starting to see why they don't. Why does your post come across so angry? You know, the average SDN'er would spend a lot of time going back and forth with you, but im just gonna say Whatever. This will be my last post responding to you. Feel free to make an angry response in which you try to pull me back into the argument.
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I am half Native American and half Black.
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I wasn't a jerk to anyone. In no way did I personally disrespect her.
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Called it...
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The your was meant as a general, not you directly. It's just I have seen the race card used as an excuse and success from a tough situation being turned into arrogance.
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My brother-in-law is the product of a doctor-doctor marriage. To boot, both parents are Hungarian, but the pressure of living in the U.S. took its toll. They got divorced. Anyway, at the risk of offending some people, I'll just share my observations.
- Some guys like dominant women, other guys don't. You can't really generalize here. What you can say is that the average American male is used to a dominant female in some form, whether it's ex-girlfriends, mothers, sisters, etc. So I don't buy the line that men are intimidated by strong women.
- I think any guy would appreciate a woman who could bring financial resources to the table, especially in light of the difficult economy. At the same time, I think men want a loyal and nurturing partner. The sad reality is that a lot of women are neither. Either they're looking for the best guy on paper or someone who excites them. Attractive, successful educated women have some of the most ruthless and unrealistic expectations out there. And successful women tend to be not so nurturing; in fact, some are just very competitive and bring a lot of their economic fears and expectations to the personal relationship 24/7. Kind of like you feel you're out on the street and the divorce papers are coming the moment you don't measure up or they lose interest. Noegrus, I assure you that your observation for educated black women extend to white women as well. So yeah, I'm less sympathetic to women who complain about men and their standards for women.
That's the world we live in, I guess.
Some other less important things I noticed:
- The really attractive nurses where I've volunteered don't go for most of the doctors. They're pretty shallow too. I mean, nurses make good money as well.
- A lot of the male doctors aren't charismatic, and some are just lacking even the most basic of social skills. But I think a lot of the doctors are too tired to deal with the demands of difficult, high-drama women (i.e., women with very high sexual market value via looks and/or youth) as well. This reflects itself when you see who their girlfriends and spouses are.
- The same can be said of the female residents and doctors. The attractive residents are usually ringed up, so.... it goes to show that some guys aren't intimidated by their highly-successful wives.
- Some guys like dominant women, other guys don't. You can't really generalize here. What you can say is that the average American male is used to a dominant female in some form, whether it's ex-girlfriends, mothers, sisters, etc. So I don't buy the line that men are intimidated by strong women.
- I think any guy would appreciate a woman who could bring financial resources to the table, especially in light of the difficult economy. At the same time, I think men want a loyal and nurturing partner. The sad reality is that a lot of women are neither. Either they're looking for the best guy on paper or someone who excites them. Attractive, successful educated women have some of the most ruthless and unrealistic expectations out there. And successful women tend to be not so nurturing; in fact, some are just very competitive and bring a lot of their economic fears and expectations to the personal relationship 24/7. Kind of like you feel you're out on the street and the divorce papers are coming the moment you don't measure up or they lose interest. Noegrus, I assure you that your observation for educated black women extend to white women as well. So yeah, I'm less sympathetic to women who complain about men and their standards for women.
That's the world we live in, I guess.
Some other less important things I noticed:
- The really attractive nurses where I've volunteered don't go for most of the doctors. They're pretty shallow too. I mean, nurses make good money as well.
- A lot of the male doctors aren't charismatic, and some are just lacking even the most basic of social skills. But I think a lot of the doctors are too tired to deal with the demands of difficult, high-drama women (i.e., women with very high sexual market value via looks and/or youth) as well. This reflects itself when you see who their girlfriends and spouses are.
- The same can be said of the female residents and doctors. The attractive residents are usually ringed up, so.... it goes to show that some guys aren't intimidated by their highly-successful wives.
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I think the automatic assumption that someone's dumb just because they are an MA and they're attractive is totally insulting. The only way to potentially extrapolate someone's intelligence from their profession is if they are a professional paint-huffer, or something. And you don't get paid for that.
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+1, but I have to admit. All the AA premed women I have "met" EXCEPT one, have been really chill and generally jovial intellectuals. I think this arrogance thing is more noticeable in AA women because there are so few of them in medicine/higher education, but I wouldn't say all of them are B******. Although I met this one OBGYN and man was she mad at the world. Was this anger further perpetuated because she was AA?, the world will never know 😀.
What is the issue with black women anyway? I swear, it feels almost like a crime being one now.
I love and will always love black women. I don't think it's a crime being one, but society does attach the stigma of black women being loud/ghetto/etc. Just have to learn to ignore the small things 🙂.
Sorry to digress from the main topic of this thread guys. When I get to residency i'll let you all know my opinion
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+1, but I have to admit. All the AA premed women I have "met" EXCEPT one, have been really chill and generally jovial intellectuals. I think this arrogance thing is more noticeable in AA women because there are so few of them in medicine/higher education, but I wouldn't say all of them are B******. Although I met this one OBGYN and man was she mad at the world. Was this anger further perpetuated because she was AA?, the world will never know 😀.
I love and will always love black women. I don't think it's a crime being one, but society does attach the stigma of black women being loud/ghetto/etc. Just have to learn to ignore the small things 🙂.
Sorry to digress from the main topic of this thread guys. When I get to residency i'll let you all know my opinion
Aren't you sweet?😍
Women, like all humans, are a big and incredibly complex group. It is never OK to make sweeping and honestly offensive generalizations like the ones made and expect to get away with it. You are right that, it is possible, that this arrogance might be more noticeable in AA women but when you consider that well educated AA women have not always been the norm in this country, it makes sense to say that they are still kind of an unknown quantity and seeing as the media (both general and black media by the way) has branded them a particular way, those are the qualities(anger/arrogance/uppitiness for the educated and career oriented ones...materialistic/fake/ghetto etc for the less driven ones) that people will always tend to look for to confirm whatever bias they already have...
The dynamic between black men and their women is not an easy one. There is a lot of resentment and misunderstanding there. For example, I could have hit KG back with the point that more and more educated black women are going for men of different races and this might be because they do not want to deal with the issues and hang ups that black men seem to have with regards to educated black women, but that would not have been productive. But those are real issues that the black community will have to address. If more and more women are advancing academically and professionally and more and more men are turning to other unproductive lifestyles, this misunderstanding is not going to get better.
Anyways...good luck finding your perfect partners ladies and gentlemen...
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And yet you took the cheap shots anyway? Honestly I see most professional black men I know date outside of their race. Most professional black women are usually single and most guys of other races simply don't find black women attractive.
And for the second bolded statement, black women may be getting more degrees than black men, but they are also the most obese demographic in America, too many are single moms, and then there is the attitude. If a young black man says to himself I want a black woman who's not overweight, doesnt have kids, and has a nice sweet personality those 3 simple criteria eliminate 90% of all black women.
Are black men behind academically? Yes, there is no denying that. But it isn't because they are not capable. Its mainly because the school systems, main stream culture, and even black culture in general dismiss black men as people who are only good for catching and shooting balls. My Highschool GPA was 2.0 , My college GPA was 3.5. I was never dumb in high school I just fell into the trap of believing i was dumb because of what other people say. I would watch teachers praise the black boys in class for getting C's but they would motivate the black girls to get A's. And a lot of these teachers were black women. Everytime you turn on the TV all you see is black men as thugs, criminals, dropouts, and the stigma that we are stupid is gladly perpetuated by our own women. People always wonder why successful black men date outside of their race so much, well most have just had horrible experiences with black women and want to distance themselves.
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This thread is becoming very sad.
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Let's liven it up. Yesterday I saw a dead puppy.
I think every time you start a sentence with "most _ people" to prove a point about why you don't date a particular group (or do) you've kind of lost already.
I think every time you start a sentence with "most _ people" to prove a point about why you don't date a particular group (or do) you've kind of lost already.
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The OP has all but vanished and deleted all her post to erase the evidence. Maybe this thread should be closed?
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this has been the case in my experience also..was soo unnecessary
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The real issue in the black community is that a lot of strong, beautiful black women think they don't need no man!
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